OT: NBA Finals

[Dogdeacon]

I guess since I don't watch much, my question would be what is "dirty"? I have never seen intent to injure by Della especially in comparison to JR's forearm shiver to Green. I do see him clutching, tugging shirts, grabbing through picks but I also see others doing that. Is that dirty or a lack of refereeing? If you don't get called it's not dirty its smart. I'm not sticking up for him but everything he does Shumpert does also - is it a Cavs thing then in regards to "whatever it takes"? Amazed how come the underachieving Aussie gets the bullseye while the others get a free pass.

Delly got the bullseye because he's injured players and had what 4-5 now incidents in the playoffs. He's also gritty, toughnosed and a guy you love on your team and hate on the other. And his plays cross the line sometimes, the nicest way to say it is that he plays with no regard for his personal safety and that jeopardizes others too. Because we live in the 'hot take' era you have to make a stand on the clean or dirty end. It is not black and white.

Also his lobs attempts can be really funny.

 

[Gurleyman]

The amazing thing in this series is that LeBron is often the biggest player on the floor, now that Mozgov and Bogut get limited minutes. I guess Tristan Thompson and David Lee officially have an inch on him, but still, essentially one team's point guard is the biggest guy out there. Last year, there was Duncan, Diaw, and Splitter as lane cloggers.

 

[mauconnfan]

Delly got the bullseye because he's injured players and had what 4-5 now incidents in the playoffs. He's also gritty, toughnosed and a guy you love on your team and hate on the other. And his plays cross the line sometimes, the nicest way to say it is that he plays with no regard for his personal safety and that jeopardizes others too. Because we live in the 'hot take' era you have to make a stand on the clean or dirty end. It is not black and white.

Also his lobs attempts can be really funny.

I haven't seen them all but the 2 I did see which everyone talks about weren't on him. Again to me just a bullseye, doubt he means to hurt anyone. Now JR Smith last night, you don't think that was intent to injure Green?

 

[FartMan69]

Oh, sure, that's what happened. Green is a nut job, dirty and not likeable whatsoever.

I just got to ask, Did Draymond drop a duece in your cornflakes? I think you two need to work it out.

 

[champs99and04]

1. Not sure they didn't realize how good he is.
2. Not sure how good he is.
3. Where Love would have made a huge difference in this series is as an alternative scorer to LeBron. TT is a heckuva player, no doubt, and inside of 2.5 feet the guy is absolutely a deadly, slightly below average shooter. But the notion that the guy is a great defender is overblown - Curry scores on him at will, for every switch, and seems to be shooting 90% when 1 on 1 with him. Put Love in the game last night and he could post up at will, and force Bogut into the game, who would get eaten up on the outside.
It's easy to dismiss Love and look at TT, but TT is a floor jammer who can't create his own shot and is mediocre - at the very best - at catching and finishing in traffic. Love is a floor spacer who can hit from anywhere on the floor, can create his own shot from anywhere, can space the floor, can jam it inside, can post, can shoot, and, TO BOOT, can rebound as well as TT. Were TT's 5 o-boards nice last night? Sure. Great. Guy was -22 on the court.
In the end, it's not the Ws scoring that ended up killing the Cavs. If this series showed anything, it's showed that the Ws can be contained quite manageably, and you don't need a ton of talent to do it. What's killing the Cavs is very close to ZERO offense when LeBron doesn't handle and distribute.

You can't really call a big man overrated defensively because he can't guard Stephen Curry on a switch. He has that in common with every other big in the league.

 

[Kitaman]

So who's in the lead right now for MVP of the series? The top 3 are Curry, Igodawa (sp?) and Lebron.

Jerry West was the last player to win on a losing squad, so Lebron would have odds against him, it would help if he forces a game 7.

Curry has awoken and is spectacular. Andre I is the 'series saver' for GSW. Will be interesting to see how this award plays out.

 

[mauconnfan]

So who's in the lead right now for MVP of the series? The top 3 are Curry, Igodawa (sp?) and Lebron.

Jerry West was the last player to win on a losing squad, so Lebron would have odds against him, it would help if he forces a game 7.

Curry has awoken and is spectacular. Andre I is the 'series saver' for GSW. Will be interesting to see how this award plays out.

Della for the beheading and hanging of so many Warriors

 

[Kitaman]

Della for the beheading and hanging of so many Warriors

Who's Della? Just kidding. He will be history once this series is over. I know he's catching a lot of flack for his more than aggressive play (borderline assault) but honestly I used to play like that and some, when everything is on the line.

What he is doing is practically illegal but in the Finals its the one time that type of play is understandable (not forgivable or excusable). All I'm saying is I know why he is playing like that and adopting a win by any means necessary. He's probably the least talented player on the court, especially offensively. But Championship games bring out the worst (just like the best) in players. Detroit's Laimbeer was similar back in the day, even Rodman this time of year would assault opposing players. Watch closely at Curry, he too is doing some funky stuff off the ball. They all are doing whatever it takes, especially if they get away with it, including Lebron.

Right now Cleveland is fortunate to have him and his style, by the way Green is playing similar ball but again its the Championship and no time for sissies (do people still use that word?). In other words its 'brass knuckles' time (do people still use those?). LOL

 

[Dogdeacon]

So who's in the lead right now for MVP of the series? The top 3 are Curry, Igodawa (sp?) and Lebron.

Jerry West was the last player to win on a losing squad, so Lebron would have odds against him, it would help if he forces a game 7.

Curry has awoken and is spectacular. Andre I is the 'series saver' for GSW. Will be interesting to see how this award plays out.

Gotta be LeBron. The stats and % of his team's offense is just ridiculous. I thought the Warriors would blow them out, but LeBron has kept the series very close. Yes Iggy is holding LeBron to lower shooting when they don't switch, but LeBron's efficiency is still off the charts and its not Iggy taking LeBron away just reducing his scoring effectiveness. Tristan Thompson is the only other Cav that truly belongs on the finals floor and yet the Cavs still have a chance in this series. Win or lose LeBron is my finals MVP.

 

[James]

who wins mvp if warriors win?

iguodala for me.

 

[superjohn]

Curry.

 

[Kembacity]

I guess since I don't watch much, my question would be what is "dirty"? I have never seen intent to injure by Della especially in comparison to JR's forearm shiver to Green. I do see him clutching, tugging shirts, grabbing through picks but I also see others doing that. Is that dirty or a lack of refereeing? If you don't get called it's not dirty its smart. I'm not sticking up for him but everything he does Shumpert does also - is it a Cavs thing then in regards to "whatever it takes"? Amazed how come the underachieving Aussie gets the bullseye while the others get a free pass.

well I think it was game 3 or 4 of this series, Draymond gave Delly a nice sturdy pick which knocked him to the ground. As soon as he hits the ground, does he make a move to get up and rejoin the play? Nope, he decides to shoulder check the side of draymond's knee. To you, I guess he probably just lost his balance and aimed directly for Green's knee because he knew it would be the most stabile part of him to lean on in an attempt to get up, but I saw it as him trying to directly injure Green's knee

The other specific play to me is trying to wrap his feet around Taj Gibson's legs while he was flat on the ground near the basket. To me, that's a dirty ass move that should be an instant flagrant. You cant try to play while you're on the ground, and tripping with your feet is a dirty scumbag move 100% of the time to me

 

[Matt1010]

Gotta be LeBron. The stats and % of his team's offense is just ridiculous. I thought the Warriors would blow them out, but LeBron has kept the series very close. Yes Iggy is holding LeBron to lower shooting when they don't switch, but LeBron's efficiency is still off the charts and its not Iggy taking LeBron away just reducing his scoring effectiveness. Tristan Thompson is the only other Cav that truly belongs on the finals floor and yet the Cavs still have a chance in this series. Win or lose LeBron is my finals MVP.

No way you can give it to LBJ is they lose in 6. If they go 7 and he has two more big games we can talk about that. Right now it's between Curry and Iggy IMO. I give the edge to Curry after he blew up last game. Iggy has been fantastic but I have a hard time giving it to a guy averaging 15/6/4.

 

[TasteofUConn]

He has that in common with every other big in the league.

That's exactly my point. I've heard announcers and commentators call TT a "great defender." I'd disagree with that. A "great defender," would be able to hold Curry to, say, less than 90% shooting.

 

[TasteofUConn]

Much respect for LeBron, but MVP needs to go to GSW player when they win, regardless of LBJ's stats.

 

[mauconnfan]

well I think it was game 3 or 4 of this series, Draymond gave Delly a nice sturdy pick which knocked him to the ground. As soon as he hits the ground, does he make a move to get up and rejoin the play? Nope, he decides to shoulder check the side of draymond's knee. To you, I guess he probably just lost his balance and aimed directly for Green's knee because he knew it would be the most stabile part of him to lean on in an attempt to get up, but I saw it as him trying to directly injure Green's knee

The other specific play to me is trying to wrap his feet around Taj Gibson's legs while he was flat on the ground near the basket. To me, that's a dirty ass move that should be an instant flagrant. You cant try to play while you're on the ground, and tripping with your feet is a dirty scumbag move 100% of the time to me

I guess i find it hard to believe he can be a scumbag for playing hard while JR Smith gets a pass for trying to knock out Crowder and then breaking Greens ribs? Makes no sense as to why Della is the punching bag. Guess I would have to see the Gibson and Green plays but others that were called dirty were not at all.

 

[UConn990411]

I guess i find it hard to believe he can be a scumbag for playing hard while JR Smith gets a pass for trying to knock out Crowder and then breaking Greens ribs? Makes no sense as to why Della is the punching bag. Guess I would have to see the Gibson and Green plays but others that were called dirty were not at all.

Everyone already acknowledges that Smith is a scumbag.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I guess i find it hard to believe he can be a scumbag for playing hard while JR Smith gets a pass for trying to knock out Crowder and then breaking Greens ribs? Makes no sense as to why Della is the punching bag. Guess I would have to see the Gibson and Green plays but others that were called dirty were not at all.

On what planet does JR Smith get a pass? He's one of the most widely-mocked and criticized players in the league. Wojnarowski wrote a piece about him last year that was so brutal it was borderline inappropriate.

How many times can we watch Dellavedova roll into someones knees before we put him in that Bruce Bowen category?

 

[Dogdeacon]

Ya'll are making arguments about who they should give the award to, but there is absolutely no argument about who is the most valuable player in the series. This is a series because LeBron has somehow carried a team of journeymen totally on his back. Take LeBron off the Cavs and the Cavs lose every game by 30+pts. Switch LeBron and any Golden State player and the Warriors win easily. Wasn't the stat last night that LeBron scored or assisted on almost 80% of the Cavs points?!

LeBron IS the most valuable player in the series hands down, now whether that value is meaningless if his team loses is a debate. But the fact that the Warriors haven't had a player dominate the series splits the vote and increases the chances LeBron gets the MVP.
Iggy & Curry's stats vs LeBron's:
Points: Iggy + Curry - 40.8, LeBron 36.6
Rebounds: LeBron 12.4, I+C-11
Assists: I+C 9.6, LeBron 8.8
Steals: I+C 2.8, LeBron 1.2
Turnovers: LeBron-3, I+C 6.2
If you add rebounds, steals and turnovers LeBron creates 3 more possessions than the two. Only chink in the armor is LeBron shooting 40% (Curry 45%, Iggy 55% but offset by 33% from line) and Iggy doing more on defense. Still very debatable, close to even statistical case for LeBron versus the other two COMBINED!

 

[donyell34]

What LeBron is doing is amazing. Would love to see a 7th game but thinking the Cavaliers are running out of gas.

 

[Stainmaster]

Oh, sure, that's what happened. Green is a nut job, dirty and not likeable whatsoever.

I'd like to welcome David Lee's father to the BY! Sir, I'm very sorry that Draymond Green took your son's starting job. My best to David in the future.

 

[James]

Delly is definitely on some Bowen ish . Like the playing hard defense dirty , not the andre nocioni 'clearly aware' level of dirty

This matchup is good for delly since curry doesn't rely on speed (regardless curry has destroyed him, especially last two games), I have a feeling that somebody like Wall would embarrass him more by simply blowin by him.

 

[mauconnfan]

On what planet does JR Smith get a pass? He's one of the most widely-mocked and criticized players in the league. Wojnarowski wrote a piece about him last year that was so brutal it was borderline inappropriate.

How many times can we watch Dellavedova roll into someones knees before we put him in that Bruce Bowen category?

I guess you think he rolled in Korver's knees with intent too?

 

[tzznandrew]

This matchup is good for delly since curry doesn't rely on speed (regardless curry has destroyed him, especially last two games), I have a feeling that somebody like Wall would embarrass him more by simply blowin by him.

Curry has figured him out. Delly is tired, too, but once Curry realized he needed to be a little more selfish he's embarrassed Delly on numerous possessions.

 

[Gurleyman]

Curry has figured him out. Delly is tired, too, but once Curry realized he needed to be a little more selfish he's embarrassed Delly on numerous possessions.

A couple of the shots he hit in G5 were just not guardable (perhaps if Delly was 6-6 with long arms, he could have bothered them a little more, but Curry quick triggers those threes over bigger defenders too). The last dagger that was deeeeep was LBJ hedging, forcing him out to 30 feet and leaving him to recover - which was sound basketball against most people. But Curry just pulled up from 30 and hit it. There have also been a couple blow bys, but I think that's something you have to live with if you're guarding him. Same way once in a while you have to live with LBJ hitting a three.

But it was once said about Vinnie Johnson that he made defenders irrelevant - he just wasn't guardable. You just had to hope you got him on a bad night because it didn't matter if you were draped all over him, he'd make the same percentage of his shots (he had a weird release behind his head where defenders couldn't reach it). Curry is sometimes like that - he has a more conventional release, but a crazy quick trigger (LBJ is too with his size and quickness). Those guys are all known for making their defenders droop their shoulders when shots go in (ie "what else can I do?").