OT: Mizzou black football players taking a stand

[Carl Spackler]

The best thing about that for the President is that 2 months from now nobody will even remember his name. Leaving quickly and quietly is the best thing for him.

In reality - there is ZERO upside in fighting anything like this.

Absolutely. Which goes straight to the core of all my bloviation. By raising this kind of stink, they were assured a quick exit stage left by university leadership in Missouri, but it seems to me, that lots of people involved, were surprised.

Someday, in my spare time if I make it to being motivated to actually publish some drivel, I'll compile a list of sayings. Call it the Bushwood Country Club Code of Conduct.

At the very top of all things - priority #1, and this is what keeps you alive - really, proverbially, etc. to fight another day after day and again after that, and so on.

Pick and choose your battles wisely.

 

[BlueDogs]

There actually is no free speech to be racist on campus, you're right about that.

Wrong - its a publicly funded institution. If there is a single federal dollar expended, it applies. "Right words" and "right think" belong to totalitarian societies. There is a vast chasm between condemning or challenging ideas like racism and banning uncomfortable ideas which are too easily labelled as racism to squelch ideas. We have raised grievance babies incapable of dealing with anything discordant.

 

[BlueDogs]

So you're telling me that if you were a college student whose school was hosting Louis Farrakhan or Al Sharpton, you'd be okay with it and wouldn't take any action?

Nope. They are entitled to spew their nonsense just like anybody else. Its my right to disagree with it and engage in speech which proves them wrong. I don't know why we are so afraid to let ideas win or lose in the court of public opinion. There is no greater slavery that can exist than to ban a person from free thought and expression.

 

[BlueDogs]

While not as forceful as you, I find a little difficult to understand how people not currently on that campus to witness or experience what it feels to have to see fecal signs of hate could form such a strong opinion against what these kids are protesting.

The demand that the school president admit to being a benefacor of "white male privelage" i'm ehhh on. But the fact as president of the school people brought specific examples of racist harrasment and he didn't address it, well that I could see being a big problem. Still can't believe he resigned though. Really blown away by that.

If white male privilege means working your ass off, worrying about raising and supporting a family, teaching your kids to do the right thing, study and work hard, paying taxes and not sucking off the system, then I'm so very privileged.

 

[noeynox]

If white male privilege means working your ass off, worrying about raising and supporting a family, teaching your kids to do the right thing, study and work hard, paying taxes and not sucking off the system, then I'm so very privileged.

I don't know why they wanted him to acknowledge that in their list of demands or what purpose it serves them.

 

[Stainmaster]

If white male privilege means working your ass off, worrying about raising and supporting a family, teaching your kids to do the right thing, study and work hard, paying taxes and not sucking off the system, then I'm so very privileged.

No, white privilege means society treats you better because of the color of your skin. It means people don't look at you and make all of a sudden judge you to be a criminal because you're black - you don't get followed around every time you enter a store at your local mall, and you don't get cuffed and have your entire car searched because one of your brakelights is out. It means you get a reply asking to set up an interview when you send a resume with the name "John Smith", as opposed to "Jaquan Smith" who gets his ignored. White privilege means every accomplishment you make isn't questioned, because many people can't seem to understand that maybe African-Americans in positions of prominence and power earned their positions based on merit. White privilege means you aren't held accountable for the actions of your race as a whole; nobody gave two sh1ts when a white guy shot up a church or a school or a movie theater, but Michael Brown gets shot and everyone from the Bible Belt with a Facebook account writes a dissertation on the collective failure of the black community.

Just because Rush tells you that black people as a whole "suck off the system" or "don't work hard" doesn't make it true.

 

[methodology]

No, white privilege means society treats you better because of the color of your skin. It means people don't look at you and make all of a sudden judge you to be a criminal because you're black - you don't get followed around every time you enter a store at your local mall, and you don't get cuffed and have your entire car searched because one of your brakelights is out. It means you get a reply asking to set up an interview when you send a resume with the name "John Smith", as opposed to "Jaquan Smith" who gets his ignored. White privilege means every accomplishment you make isn't questioned, because many people can't seem to understand that maybe African-Americans in positions of prominence and power earned their positions based on merit. White privilege means you aren't held accountable for the actions of your race as a whole; nobody gave two sh1ts when a white guy shot up a church or a school or a movie theater, but Michael Brown gets shot and everyone from the Bible Belt with a Facebook account writes a dissertation on the collective failure of the black community.

Just because Rush tells you that black people as a whole "suck off the system" or "don't work hard" doesn't make it true.

I guess that whole movement in the South to remove confederate flags and eliminate that culture from the mainstream at state universities and state capitals was just a figment of my imagination. Amazon, ebay, etc refused to sell any confederate merchandise after that incident

That had absolutely nothing to do with that white racist scum who did the church shooting.

The mass shooting by white male hasn't changed gun laws? It hasn't opened discussion about mental health?

 

[methodology]

Theyd have to be damn certain the B1G was not serious when it said it will absolutely not pay athletes.

If the athletes overshot their hand and dealt a many hundreds of millions $$ to college football, there would be ramifications with all those monetary losses. OR, the B1G would give in and pay them.

I'd read this as an all or nothing gamble. I can't see how you pick up the pieces if you missed out on that payday.

It would be an interesting situation. Hundreds of millions of dollars at stake.

Don't know which side would prevail. I wonder if that happened if the schools would claim they weren't honoring their scholarship and force them to pay back the school for tuition and the other perks of being a full scholarship athlete

 

[Stainmaster]

I guess that whole movement in the South to remove confederate flags and eliminate that culture from the mainstream at state universities and state capitals was just a figment of my imagination. Amazon, ebay, etc refused to sell any confederate merchandise after that incident

That had absolutely nothing to do with that white racist scum who did the church shooting.

The mass shooting by white male hasn't changed gun laws? It hasn't opened discussion about mental health?

Yeah, that whole anti-Confederate movement that was loudly and vocally protested by millions of Americans who a) don't believe that institutional racism exist and b) believe that all racism in this country comes from the black community, and none of it from the white population.

LOL changing gun laws because of a mass shooting. Where do you think we live, Europe? I'm (sadly) confident that we will never see stricter gun control legislation in this nation. The people of this country care more about their guns than the loss of life, and that sentiment will only grow stronger. (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/joe-the-plumber-wurzelbacher-ucsb-shooting-dead-kids)

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

The people of this country care more about their guns than the loss of life, and that sentiment will only grow stronger.

It's this kind of talk that makes me want to go buy a gun and shoot myself in the face. Good Lord.

 

[junglehusky]

If white male privilege means working your ass off, worrying about raising and supporting a family, teaching your kids to do the right thing, study and work hard, paying taxes and not sucking off the system, then I'm so very privileged.

White male privilege means you do those things and it works for you, and someone else does those same things, works as hard as you and maybe they are successful, but it's harder if recruiters are less likely to respond to resumes with African American sounding names, or their realtor shows them houses in a less affluent neighborhood and as a result their kid is more likely to grow up around bad influences, etc... NOTE NOTE NOTE this isn't necessarily due to individual racism of white (or other) people in the KKK/good ole boy sense of the word. It can be due to biases that affect decision making at an unconscious level, and studies have shown liberals and even minorities themselves can be prone to these biases when making intuitive decisions. What the neuroscientists and economists are finding is that our brains aren't as rational or as efficient at making decisions as we assume they are. This is what I mean by structural racism. It can happen without the recruiter or the realtor being quote-unquote a racist individual.

But TBH with inequality increasing and less wealth going to the middle class, everybody including whites is finding the American Dream isn't bearing fruit like it used to decades ago, period.

 

[JMick]

I have to admit not being sure how to frame these series events.

On one side you see students, some of whom being student athletes, taking a position of conscious and peacefully working to change the culture around them. That is pretty cool.

On the other hand, when you read the list of "demands" and watch the video that I posted you get a scary sense of unrealistic self-importance among the participants and mob rule.

It is a great irony of life that the protesters often become that against which they protest. Protesters against oppression oppress; those seeking to have their voice heard seek to suppress the voices of others. Perhaps it is human nature. If so, it is a depressing realization.

It's a matter of agreeing with their sentiments, ideology, and right to protest but realizing that most of the people in that crowd are self-entitled idiots.

 

[BlueDogs]

No, white privilege means society treats you better because of the color of your skin. It means people don't look at you and make all of a sudden judge you to be a criminal because you're black - you don't get followed around every time you enter a store at your local mall, and you don't get cuffed and have your entire car searched because one of your brakelights is out. It means you get a reply asking to set up an interview when you send a resume with the name "John Smith", as opposed to "Jaquan Smith" who gets his ignored. White privilege means every accomplishment you make isn't questioned, because many people can't seem to understand that maybe African-Americans in positions of prominence and power earned their positions based on merit. White privilege means you aren't held accountable for the actions of your race as a whole; nobody gave two sh1ts when a white guy shot up a church or a school or a movie theater, but Michael Brown gets shot and everyone from the Bible Belt with a Facebook account writes a dissertation on the collective failure of the black community.

Just because Rush tells you that black people as a whole "suck off the system" or "don't work hard" doesn't make it true.

There so many things that are totally wrong with what you say, I don't even know where to start. "White privilege means you aren't held accountable for the actions of your race as a whole" So, we impose collective punishment for historical wrongs long since passed? Do we ignore statistical reality that blacks year over year commit a disproportionate amount of crime? Do we ignore that black kids are disproportionately failing in our schools in front the same teachers and with the same resources? Do we ignore a black thug culture which holds up disrespect for woman, drugs and crime as a good? Do we ignore that the black family structure has disintegrated? Do we ignore that college admission standards for blacks are substantially lower than white persons in every academic measure? And, yes, I'm damn tired of working my ass off for able bodied folks irrespective of color, race or creed with a thousand excuses why they cant work when we have an administration saying we need to bring in immigrants because Americans wont do hard labor jobs. What is really racist is the assumption that white males get things easily like there some secret handshake and money is bestowed on you. The people I know struggle, work hard and sacrifice in ways that make a little feces seem irrelevant. On the point, I distinctly remember digging out sewers during college for a contractor and that, my friend, is the difference in a nutshell. Sadly, there is nothing more that I would like to see is every person succeed, but somehow when you suggest that maybe its starts with culture and character you're a racist. Racism has been dead a long time and I don't think there are many who want to see another man put down or denied opportunity. But there is a whole grievance industry built on perpetuating the myth of bias and disadvantage. I know of no black person who does the rights things that is not well regarded and frankly advantaged beyond a white person in todays world in almost every way whether in college admissions, affirmative action quotas in hiring and advancement, contract set asides, etc.. To sum up, I think you are full of crap.

 

[BlueDogs]

...

But TBH with inequality increasing and less wealth going to the middle class, everybody including whites is finding the American Dream isn't bearing fruit like it used to decades ago, period.

So true...

 

[pnow15]

Its clear that all quotas and Affirmative Action programs need to end and just for the reasons that Stairmaster outlined:. Blacks are seldom given credit for intellectual achievement. These programs have long since passed any useful purpose.. There are quite literally four major groups in this country: whites,blacks, Hispanics and Asians. No group should be given preferential treatment. Status has to be earned on an individual basis, not group preference or grievance

 

[upstater]

Wrong - its a publicly funded institution. If there is a single federal dollar expended, it applies. "Right words" and "right think" belong to totalitarian societies. There is a vast chasm between condemning or challenging ideas like racism and banning uncomfortable ideas which are too easily labelled as racism to squelch ideas. We have raised grievance babies incapable of dealing with anything discordant.

No seriously you're wrong about this. There's a code of conduct at public universities as well.

 

[upstater]

It's a matter of agreeing with their sentiments, ideology, and right to protest but realizing that most of the people in that crowd are self-entitled idiots.

Looked to me that most of that crowd was black.

 

[upstater]

Its clear that all quotas and Affirmative Action programs need to end and just for the reasons that Stairmaster outlined:. Blacks are seldom given credit for intellectual achievement. These programs have long since passed any useful purpose.. There are quite literally four major groups in this country: whites,blacks, Hispanics and Asians. No group should be given preferential treatment. Status has to be earned on an individual basis, not group preference or grievance

Well, then, let's end Citizens United and legacy donations to universities as well--also applications where the committee gets to see how much money you have. Get rid of all of it.

 

[huskypantz]

Remember this?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_buffalo_incident

Look at the date though on that incident. 2 decades.

That was an interesting read. Seems like the university got it wrong on several counts (including the roommate's punishment). I guess being Ivy doesn't make you right.

 

[tzznandrew]

Racism has been dead a long time and I don't think there are many who want to see another man put down or denied opportunity.

Wow.

It's always interesting to me that someone who talks about "black thug culture" could then turn around and say this.

The rough part about systemic racism in our culture is that some white people and some black people live in parallel universes, universes where something like this is somehow not racist, where the legacies of our federal policies that systematically impoverished black citizens (put them in poverty because of redlining and white flight), where we live in a country where a qualified black man is less likely to get called back than a white felon for a job interview, where...god, I can go on and on...

But racism is over, and blacks should stop being thugs and leaching off the system. Got it.

I just think, on some level, too, if you're white you really just don't get it. Racism on the personal level happens to all of us at some point, but racism on the systemic level is much deeper, and that's what often gets ignored.

 

[junglehusky]

There so many things that are totally wrong with what you say, I don't even know where to start. "White privilege means you aren't held accountable for the actions of your race as a whole" So, we impose collective punishment for historical wrongs long since passed? Do we ignore statistical reality that blacks year over year commit a disproportionate amount of crime? Do we ignore that black kids are disproportionately failing in our schools in front the same teachers and with the same resources? Do we ignore a black thug culture which holds up disrespect for woman, drugs and crime as a good? Do we ignore that the black family structure has disintegrated? Do we ignore that college admission standards for blacks are substantially lower than white persons in every academic measure? And, yes, I'm damn tired of working my ass off for able bodied folks irrespective of color, race or creed with a thousand excuses why they cant work when we have an administration saying we need to bring in immigrants because Americans wont do hard labor jobs. What is really racist is the assumption that white males get things easily like there some secret handshake and money is bestowed on you. The people I know struggle, work hard and sacrifice in ways that make a little feces seem irrelevant. On the point, I distinctly remember digging out sewers during college for a contractor and that, my friend, is the difference in a nutshell. Sadly, there is nothing more that I would like to see is every person succeed, but somehow when you suggest that maybe its starts with culture and character you're a racist. Racism has been dead a long time and I don't think there are many who want to see another man put down or denied opportunity. But there is a whole grievance industry built on perpetuating the myth of bias and disadvantage. I know of no black person who does the rights things that is not well regarded and frankly advantaged beyond a white person in todays world in almost every way whether in college admissions, affirmative action quotas in hiring and advancement, contract set asides, etc.. To sum up, I think you are full of crap.

Do you have any original ideas to contribute, or are you just going to trot out tired clichés from talk radio and falsehoods?

 

[upstater]

That was an interesting read. Seems like the university got it wrong on several counts (including the roommate's punishment). I guess being Ivy doesn't make you right.

Eh, all they asked for was an apology. Even if he didn't mean it the way they took it, he owed them that.

 

[JMick]

Looked to me that most of that crowd was black.

Color and personality don't have anything to do with each other. I agree with the overall sentiments of the protesters. They've had to resort to protests like these because their voice isn't heard otherwise. It doesn't mean they're pointing and angers and frustrations in the right directions necessarily, nor does it mean everyone there is intelligent, but they feel like they have to do something.

 

[Carl Spackler]

So, like I wrote before - whoever wrote that list of demands put language in there, that's not going to help anything positively.

White priviliedge, black oppression, jap sushi. Whatever. Talk to a whitey born into a family in rural Kentucky or West Virginia or something about white priviledge.

I have no patience for complainers that do not exhibit behavior to better themselves and those around them. I could care less what color, shape, size, religion. THe thing about people that are useful, and productive and successful, as that sooner or later - they just skip the complaining step - and get about the business of making themselves and the ones around them better.

HEre's the difficult part - that's going to make people uncomfortable reading, because it's true and nobody wants to see someone end up like this - or worse BE someone like this - it's that successful people are going to make decisions about sticking with those that they can help, and leave behind those that will drag them down to their own and are past saving. It's like battlefield medicine, when it gets to really cold hard reality. Whatever condition you might be found in, you're either going to pull through with help, or you're going to die regardless, so don't waste the time.

Children - don't fall into that category of not wasting the time. Adults often do. Somehwere in between are the high school and college age population.

Now - can the powers that be please stick this mess into the cesspool. Deep. For the umpteenth time?!?!

 

[tzznandrew]

So, like I wrote before - whoever wrote that list of demands put language in there, that's not going to help anything positively.

White priviliedge, black oppression, jap sushi. Whatever. Talk to a whitey born into a family in rural Kentucky or West Virginia or something about white priviledge.

I have no patience for complainers that do not exhibit behavior to better themselves and those around them. I could care less what color, shape, size, religion. THe thing about people that are useful, and productive and successful, as that sooner or later - they just skip the complaining step - and get about the business of making themselves and the ones around them better.

HEre's the difficult part - that's going to make people uncomfortable reading, because it's true and nobody wants to see someone end up like this - or worse BE someone like this - it's that successful people are going to make decisions about sticking with those that they can help, and leave behind those that will drag them down to their own and are past saving. It's like battlefield medicine, when it gets to really cold hard reality. Whatever condition you might be found in, you're either going to pull through with help, or you're going to die regardless, so don't waste the time.

Children - don't fall into that category of not wasting the time. Adults often do. Somehwere in between are the high school and college age population.

Now - can the powers that be please stick this mess into the cesspool. Deep. For the umpteenth time?!?!

Right. Because pointing out that people who look like you are being shot by the police is complaining. Pointing out that when you apply for a job and are fully qualified, you are skipped over is complaining.

They should just work harder. Thanks Jurgis.

Wasn't our whole country founded on "complaining"? No taxation without representation! Get to work, complainers! I'd say that it ceases to be complaining when it is based in lived-reality and advocating for justice.

Also, I fail to see how living in Kentucky or West Virginia exempts people from white privilege. There are many different types of privilege they don't have--economic for instance--but that doesn't mean that they don't have societal advantages.

Also, you can talk about "cold hard facts" all you want on this...any political system built on valuing those who are "useful, and productive and successful" is a little concerning to me. The very basis of that logic goes in all sorts of places I'm not comfortable.