OT: Mizzou black football players taking a stand

[Pudge]

Pinkel is in his 16th year at the University of Missouri

In places like that (thinking B12/SEC), that football coach tenure has more leverage than any old 2 year College President. As soon as he stood up, you knew where that teams was going with this. And, the Board and Boosters and State support - while they may be hurt and/or pissed - knew what had to happen.

Mutiny isn't the issue. The next shoe to drop is at another University where Black athletes decide to make a stand. Without the same power structure, you won't have near the same result.

 

[tiger8mush]

weird question/thought - wouldn't someone use feces to draw something they DON'T like? I mean, if I was given a warm lump and told to make a statement out of it, I'd probably write "BC" or "Cuse" in it, not something I care for like "UConn" or "family" etc.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Pinkel is in his 16th year at the University of Missouri

In places like that (thinking B12/SEC), that football coach tenure has more leverage than any old 2 year College President. As soon as he stood up, you knew where that teams was going with this. And, the Board and Boosters and State support - while they may be hurt and/or pissed - knew what had to happen.

Mutiny isn't the issue. The next shoe to drop is at another University where Black athletes decide to make a stand. Without the same power structure, you won't have near the same result.

What do the black athletes need to make a stand against? Why can't white athletes make a stand to? Or can they - just not about certain things?

What does making a stand mean anyway? Is there a difference between writing letters to every media outlet and state and federal elected representative expressing opinions regarding the desire for change on something vs. threatening a boycott/strike that can cost an institution millions? Should things have a stepwise progression or should the next time that a black athlete feels oppressed, the entire football team boycott the next game?

I disagree - mutiny is the issue, and what the issue has exposed is that at the UMissouri, the power structure was such that over time, a mutiny was what the community resorted to - for a personnel change in leadership, and you don't seem to be able to present a decent conceptual framework as to how that mutiny is going to result in anything positive changing for what led to the personnel change at the top.

As I get older and live through more, the simple phrases that have a lot of meaning in life become more and more important - and a very simple one, that goes way back in time, and has been described in countless ways and fashion - one my favorites is a twilight zone episode:

Is be careful what you wish for, because you may get it. .

UMissouri student community wanted new people in position of leadership, they're going to get it.

I'm going to try not to comment further on this.

 

[Nostical]

This is a Watershed moment for College Sports and what the NCAA feared.

I agree. If the players decide they need better medical coverage--etc.--and they are galvanized by a leading voice--they won't need a lawsuit. They can agree to boycott games. The Mizzou case opened a pandora box on player leverage. Now they need to find other causes for which they'll be willing to flex their muscles and risk the outcome. As for Coach Pinkel--he'll be able to tell any parent of a recruit in their living room that he has their son's back. And he has this to prove it. Watch out for Mizzou football moving forward.

 

[methodology]

A buddy of mine had an interesting hypothetical.

He said what if the 4 teams in the college playoff follow Missouri lead and boycott the bowl games unless they are paid. How would that be handled by the NCAA and the schools?

 

[Duncan Idaho]

did I say you were?

Also, from Pew Research:

"The polling finds that older generations – Boomers and especially Silents – do not fully embrace diversity. Fewer in these groups see the increasing populations of Latinos and Asians, as well as more racial intermarriage, as changes for the better. For many Silents in particular, Obama himself may represent an unwelcome indicator of the way the face of America has changed. Feelings of “unease” with Obama, along with higher levels of anger, are the emotions that most differentiate the attitudes of Silents from those of the youngest generation."

A pretty roundabout way of saying old white people are still racist.

Dont see any color in the paragraph you referenced Mick. Do you think you will become generally more conservative when you become part of an older generation?

 

[Dogged]

You realize the President was born in Kenya and attended madrassas in Indonesia, don't you? I'd call that a multicultural success.

Meanwhile the culture is dying.

 

[junglehusky]

Mutiny is a military term. Sailors in mutiny against their superior officers. Does not apply to civilians unless you live under a junta. (perhaps the dynamic at the Citadel or a service academy would be different... I'm sure there's good books written on how the branches were intergrated and the challenges they faced there.

Also, I must have missed the part of the Declaration or Constitution where it says a group that petitions for a redress of grievences related to X have to provide a plan for Y and Z.

 

[upstater]

Pinkel is in his 16th year at the University of Missouri

In places like that (thinking B12/SEC), that football coach tenure has more leverage than any old 2 year College President. As soon as he stood up, you knew where that teams was going with this. And, the Board and Boosters and State support - while they may be hurt and/or pissed - knew what had to happen.

Mutiny isn't the issue. The next shoe to drop is at another University where Black athletes decide to make a stand. Without the same power structure, you won't have near the same result.

As I wrote above, black students have taken the same exact course of action at other schools, and it didn't even make national news.

 

[upstater]

Meanwhile the culture is dying.

It was Obama's fault

 

[upstater]

A buddy of mine had an interesting hypothetical.

He said what if the 4 teams in the college playoff follow Missouri lead and boycott the bowl games unless they are paid. How would that be handled by the NCAA and the schools?

Theyd have to be damn certain the B1G was not serious when it said it will absolutely not pay athletes.

If the athletes overshot their hand and dealt a many hundreds of millions $$ to college football, there would be ramifications with all those monetary losses. OR, the B1G would give in and pay them.

I'd read this as an all or nothing gamble. I can't see how you pick up the pieces if you missed out on that payday.

 

[polycom]

This sets a terrible president, could you imagine the UConn Men's basketball team joining together saying they wont play... they could get UConn administration to do essentially anything...

 

[J187Money]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...to-students-by-university-of-missouri-police/

So now every "hurtful" act of speech should be reported to the police? Wonder how long until we protest the police for overstepping their bounds...

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

There was a lot objectionable about the demands, like taking over the curriculum, but there are a lot of people on that campus that could easily design a strong curriculum for such training.

Yes, we agree some or parts of the protesters' demands are objectionable. To varying degrees, others while less objectionable are challenging to expect any university to implement. For example, protesters' for all future chancellors and system-wide presidents to be selected by students and faculty. Not just input, but actual selection.

Undoubtedly, Mizzou's Columbia campus and the overall system have many reasonable people with the right background, skills, and experience to create a productive diversity training program. For a university with a highly respected journalism/mass media program, the mid-40s, white, female journalism professor shown late in videos beckoning help to block a student cameraman and news reporters and also demanding some muscle to physically remove them may not be among the top candidates. Irony?

 

[Dogged]

It was Obama's fault

Why do you say that? Not my opinion. Just like the Walmart remark.

 

[upstater]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...to-students-by-university-of-missouri-police/

So now every "hurtful" act of speech should be reported to the police? Wonder how long until we protest the police for overstepping their bounds...

It's not as scary as you imagine. Schools elsewhere have had these policies for a long time.

I do object to "hurtful" act of speech being the standard... rather than racist speech. But this sort of code of conduct has been around for two decades at least.

 

[upstater]

Yes, we agree some or parts of the protesters' demands are objectionable. To varying degrees, others while less objectionable are challenging to expect any university to implement. For example, protesters' for all future chancellors and system-wide presidents to be selected by students and faculty. Not just input, but actual selection.

Undoubtedly, Mizzou's Columbia campus and the overall system have many reasonable people with the right background, skills, and experience to create a productive diversity training program. For a university with a highly respected journalism/mass media program, the mid-40s, white, female journalism professor shown late in videos beckoning help to block a student cameraman and news reporters and also demanding some muscle to physically remove them may not be among the top candidates. Irony?

Oh my god, we're the last ones to get on the media for skewing things, aren't we? That ESPN/UConn/grad rate thread was my imagination. But the frothing hyena of the media going nuts on a woman who thinks it's best that the media don't cover the hunger-striker's emergence--my God. I saw Wetzel of all people screaming journalism ethics this morning. Astounding.

She was first of all a Communications professor whose field of study is mass media and popular culture. She's the first person who would be highly critical of the media on that campus. Not a journalism professor.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Oh my god, we're the last ones to get on the media for skewing things, aren't we? That ESPN/UConn/grad rate thread was my imagination. But the frothing hyena of the media going nuts on a woman who thinks it's best that the media don't cover the hunger-striker's emergence--my God. I saw Wetzel of all people screaming journalism ethics this morning. Astounding.

She was first of all a Communications professor whose field of study is mass media and popular culture. She's the first person who would be highly critical of the media on that campus. Not a journalism professor.

ESPN's bad, a media company incorrectly referring to the wacky woman as a journalism professor. Impressive!

 

[Pudge]

What do the black athletes need to make a stand against? Why can't white athletes make a stand to? Or can they - just not about certain things?

What does making a stand mean anyway? Is there a difference between writing letters to every media outlet and state and federal elected representative expressing opinions regarding the desire for change on something vs. threatening a boycott/strike that can cost an institution millions? Should things have a stepwise progression or should the next time that a black athlete feels oppressed, the entire football team boycott the next game?

I disagree - mutiny is the issue, and what the issue has exposed is that at the UMissouri, the power structure was such that over time, a mutiny was what the community resorted to - for a personnel change in leadership, and you don't seem to be able to present a decent conceptual framework as to how that mutiny is going to result in anything positive changing for what led to the personnel change at the top.

As I get older and live through more, the simple phrases that have a lot of meaning in life become more and more important - and a very simple one, that goes way back in time, and has been described in countless ways and fashion - one my favorites is a twilight zone episode:

Is be careful what you wish for, because you may get it. .

UMissouri student community wanted new people in position of leadership, they're going to get it.

I'm going to try not to comment further on this.

Leverage.

It's what these Power 5 schools are using to back the G5 into corners. It's what we use in business to insure we get paid ... whether its a Contract or a Gun. The Black Football Players at an SEC school (again 58 of 84) are powerful. They used their Leverage. The White Football players? What issue do they have?

Unfortunately, often Institutions and Power don't act unless you have and use Leverage.

 

[J187Money]

It's not as scary as you imagine. Schools elsewhere have had these policies for a long time.

I do object to "hurtful" act of speech being the standard... rather than racist speech. But this sort of code of conduct has been around for two decades at least.

Interesting. Thought that was an overreaction. But if not - good. At least they are catching up with best practice.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Leverage.

It's what these Power 5 schools are using to back the G5 into corners. It's what we use in business to insure we get paid ... whether its a Contract or a Gun. The Black Football Players at an SEC school (again 58 of 84) are powerful. They used their Leverage. The White Football players? What issue do they have?

Unfortunately, often Institutions and Power don't act unless you have and use Leverage.

This I agree with. No doubt. Leverage. A favorite, very old phrase of mine is that the simplest and most effective of all tools is a wedge. Leverage.

Since you brought up the gun as an analogy - the problem with the precedent, is the problem with arming people with weapons, is that there is a very big risk of powerful weapons ending up in the hands of people that either don't know how to use them and blow themselves up or shoot themselves in the feet, or that do know how to use them and end up blowing stuff up or shooting people, that don't deserve to be blown up or shot.

A strike that involves millions of dollars, whether it be whatever business - is a powerful tool/weapon.

 

[upstater]

Interesting. Thought that was an overreaction. But if not - good. At least they are catching up with best practice.

Remember this?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_buffalo_incident

Look at the date though on that incident. 2 decades.

 

[CL82]

I have to admit not being sure how to frame these series events.

On one side you see students, some of whom being student athletes, taking a position of conscious and peacefully working to change the culture around them. That is pretty cool.

On the other hand, when you read the list of "demands" and watch the video that I posted you get a scary sense of unrealistic self-importance among the participants and mob rule.

It is a great irony of life that the protesters often become that against which they protest. Protesters against oppression oppress; those seeking to have their voice heard seek to suppress the voices of others. Perhaps it is human nature. If so, it is a depressing realization.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I have to admit not being sure how to frame these series events.

On one side you see students, some of whom being student athletes, taking a position of conscious and peacefully working to change the culture around them. That is pretty cool.

On the other hand, when you read the list of "demands" and watch the video that I posted you get a scary sense of unrealistic self-importance among the participants and mob rule.

It is a great irony of life that the protesters often become that against which they protest. Protesters against oppression oppress; those seeking to have their voice heard seek to suppress the voices of others. Perhaps it is human nature. If so, it is a depressing realization.

Have a scotch, and go watch the Rod Serling Twilight Zone about the husband and wife that are magically granted 3 wishes.

This is why I go back to something I wrote earlier in this mess. If you can follow the simple lessons, football lessons really, of handling the small things every day, all day, that matter effectively, timely and without wavering - when it comes time to handle complex issues, you've got a foundation that's strong to work from to work to solve big problems.

That clearly was not happening at UMissouri administration, and when a big problem arising from lots of daily little problems came along, the people at the top of the chain tucked tails and got out of Dodge.

 

[J187Money]

Have a scotch, and go watch the Rod Serling Twilight Zone about the husband and wife that are magically granted 3 wishes.

This is why I go back to something I wrote earlier in this mess. If you can follow the simple lessons, football lessons really, of handling the small things every day, all day, that matter effectively, timely and without wavering - when it comes time to handle complex issues, you've got a foundation that's strong to work from to work to solve big problems.

That clearly was not happening at UMissouri administration, and when a big problem arising from lots of daily little problems came along, the people at the top of the chain tucked tails and got out of Dodge.

The best thing about that for the President is that 2 months from now nobody will even remember his name. Leaving quickly and quietly is the best thing for him.

In reality - there is ZERO upside in fighting anything like this.