OT: Mizzou black football players taking a stand

[Pudge]

Where were the faculty at Missouri?

Seems that is a generational thing whereby the strong voices that existed as I entered college decades ago are no longer influential.

 

[Waquoit]

Where were the faculty at Missouri?
Seems that is a generational thing whereby the strong voices that existed as I entered college decades ago are no longer influential.

Generational in the sense that past generations of strong voices weren't worried about getting fired for speaking out.

 

[Pudge]

Generational in the sense that past generations of strong voices weren't worried about getting fired for speaking out.

And the Scott Walker thinking ... yanking away tenure from a Globally Ranked University of Wisconsin gets us down this path to what?

 

[upstater]

Where were the faculty at Missouri?

Seems that is a generational thing whereby the strong voices that existed as I entered college decades ago are no longer influential.

Faculty backed the students.

 

[noeynox]

There is a very simple reason that the list was absurd. They wanted him gone! They demanded things that he would never do because he needed to be fired or resign. Why? Because he ignored issues of racism on campus for at least 2 years! Issues that have been a problem for 50+ years! If you took a moment to look beyond your own ignorance you MIGHT understand this.

I hate when things like this happen because it always shows me just how insensitive people (particularly SOME white Americans) are. The audacity to even have an opinion on how minorities should react to racism.... SMFH.

While not as forceful as you, I find a little difficult to understand how people not currently on that campus to witness or experience what it feels to have to see fecal signs of hate could form such a strong opinion against what these kids are protesting.

The demand that the school president admit to being a benefacor of "white male privelage" i'm ehhh on. But the fact as president of the school people brought specific examples of racist harrasment and he didn't address it, well that I could see being a big problem. Still can't believe he resigned though. Really blown away by that.

 

[CL82]

Where were the faculty at Missouri?

Seems that is a generational thing whereby the strong voices that existed as I entered college decades ago are no longer influential.

Well one faculty member can be seen at the end of this video:

But most shocking is at the end of the video, once the photographer has been forced to leave, the person recording the video we are watching is asked to stop filming by a woman identified by CNN as Melissa Click, an assistant professor of mass media communications at Mizzou...

"You need to get out," yells the journalism professor. "I need some muscle over here," yells the holder of a PhD in Communication and "Outsanding Mentor 2011" to a nearby group of students, "to get this reporter out of here." At that point a man is seen running in our direction and the video ends.
Link

 

[junglehusky]

I think it's a bad road to go down, for people to begin to accept that strikes/riots/boycotts/protests etc. are a normal, expected, and at worst - primary - mode of seeking accountability and if necessary - change - in leadership for any group or organization of community. Is it viable and effective? Sure - but it should be a last resort - and it should never be done without careful thought and consideration about what you do, if you are actually successful.
Slippery slope.

This sounds like something George III and his advisors would say if they were around today.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

"Let this be a testament to all of the athletes across the country that you do have power," Tigers defensive end Charles Harris said Monday. "It started with a few individuals on our team, and look what it's become. Look where it's at right now. This is nationally known, and it started with just a few."

The Missouri team's stand was credited with escalating the protest about long-simmering tensions about race and other student welfare issues on campus. It was a serious threat with financial implications: The Missouri athletic department faced a $1 million dollar payment to BYU if it had to back out of the teams' game.

This whole situation makes me want to take a shower. Less about black & white, more about green. Icky.

 

[Carl Spackler]

This sounds like something George III and his advisors would say if they were around today.

I'm not sure if that's a jab to the front, or a pat on the back - but I'm glass half full kind of guy - so I'll take it as a compliment, because I hope that King George, if alive today, would have realized that not only should he have listened to the concerns, complaints and critique and acted upon them much more effectively - but that we also had a damn good plan after we managed to evict the red coats.

 

[Carl Spackler]

"Let this be a testament to all of the athletes across the country that you do have power," Tigers defensive end Charles Harris said Monday. "It started with a few individuals on our team, and look what it's become. Look where it's at right now. This is nationally known, and it started with just a few."

The Missouri team's stand was credited with escalating the protest about long-simmering tensions about race and other student welfare issues on campus. It was a serious threat with financial implications: The Missouri athletic department faced a $1 million dollar payment to BYU if it had to back out of the teams' game.

This whole situation makes me want to take a shower. Less about black & white, more about green. Icky.

This kind of immediate feedback directly from the event does very little to ease my concerns about things, that junglehusky thinks would be something that the late King George III might have said.

What I would be happy reading, hearing - is something to the effect that "we tried for years and years to get something done in this community, but the leadership wouldn't listen and we regret that it came to this kind of forceful event to initiate change, but we felt we had no other option other than to threaten the loss of $1million in revenue. We are glad that we do not have to pursue this course any further and this is our plan of action at this point, now that there is a leadership change - the plan is this:........"

I can't continue - because I have no idea what the plan might be now at UMissouri.

But that's not what the player said. He's impressed with himself for making national news.

Guess what kid - that's not too hard to do these days. It will be gone from the national news faster than it got there.

 

[Pudge]

This kind of immediate feedback directly from the event does very little to ease my concerns about things, that junglehusky thinks would be something that the late King George III might have said.

What I would be happy reading, hearing - is something to the effect that "we tried for years and years to get something done in this community, but the leadership wouldn't listen and we regret that it came to this kind of forceful event to initiate change, but we felt we had no other option other than to threaten the loss of $1million in revenue. We are glad that we do not have to pursue this course any further and this is our plan of action at this point, now that there is a leadership change - the plan is this:..."

I can't continue - because I have no idea what the plan might be now at UMissouri.

But that's not what the player said. He's impressed with himself for making national news.

Guess what kid - that's not too hard to do these days. It will be gone from the national news faster than it got there.

Look ...

You can't take this out of the context of the last year + of events. Some - thinking of you Chris Christie and others on my twitter circle jerk - want to point #BlackLivesMatter as an assault on cops. Frankly ... just No! It is an accumulation of ... "wait for it" ... videos because we all have cameras. And, now that we see video after video of Blacks (mostly young males) getting senselessly shot or beaten, we are at a tipping point. Admittedly, all of these lack the full context. University of Missouri, being less than 2 hours from Ferguson, is a grand stage. 58 scholarship blacks out of 84 on the Football team. What we are talking about is not "Green" ... per se. It is about Leverage. For the same things we argue about frequently and often make their way on the CR board: the Football team is the front porch. It is the University's primary presence in the State and Nationally.

National news? Nope. This is about "LEVERAGE" a protest model from the streets to the bigger stage. Do all these videos have a common thread? Damned if I know. But, the incidence of them and the steady drumbeat across multiple states and TV markets have brought this front and center. A University, by the nature of its culture, has always been the crucible of protest. The Tiger football team won't be the last.

 

[Pudge]

I think you see the answer. Head Coach Gary Pinkel (and his AD) took a firm stand Sunday. This means, to me, that the Football players understood the limits of what they were doing. And, then it is back to the Team Concept to play next weekend.

As for what happens on campus, the Board of Curators (6 of 7 White and almost as many lawyers) of Missouri clearly are behind the quick move. This was the second President at University of Missouri who had ZERO academic background before being made head of the place. Running a campus asylum will never be like running the Domestic business for a corporation. The first weeks will be placing a solid leader in the chair. On campuses, you often lack continuity beyond a few years as students move on; so, there lacks the institutional history to carry much along. The whole event? I think largely symbolic.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I think you see the answer. Head Coach Gary Pinkel (and his AD) took a firm stand Sunday. This means, to me, that the Football players understood the limits of what they were doing. And, then it is back to the Team Concept to play next weekend.

As for what happens on campus, the Board of Curators (6 of 7 White and almost as many lawyers) of Missouri clearly are behind the quick move. This was the second President at University of Missouri who had ZERO academic background before being made head of the place. Running a campus asylum will never be like running the Domestic business for a corporation. The first weeks will be placing a solid leader in the chair. On campuses, you often lack continuity beyond a few years as students move on; so, there lacks the institutional history to carry much along. The whole event? I think largely symbolic.

Thanks Pudge. As I wrote yesterday, and I did first engage in this thing with a pretty light and facetitious comment. As I noted already - at this point in my time on this planet, I can bloviate in my own inflated opinion quite well on a number of subjects, but I know my limitations. I'm not an expert on the code of conduct, academic and business mission, community structure and the disciplinary review and hiring process at the University of Missouri - I have no desire to learn these things - not in my scope.

What I do know, is that mutiny is dangerous business, and should never be engaged in lightly without a plan of what to do after.

 

[Jax Husky]

Hope you're right Pudge. Are there circumstances where a mutiny is warranted? Sure. It's not something where say the thought process should go from: "I don't really like what our leadership is doing" to....."let's strike/riot/do whatever it takes to get them to resign or be fired."

I'm not suggesting that it wasn't warranted in Missouri - an that that there were not a set of steps inbetween that were taken - but a leadership accountability problem certainly existed long term, and something tneeded to be done. But reading that list of demands? Umm - not good IMO.

I think it's a bad road to go down, for people to begin to accept that strikes/riots/boycotts/protests etc. are a normal, expected, and at worst - primary - mode of seeking accountability and if necessary - change - in leadership for any group or organization of community. Is it viable and effective? Sure - but it should be a last resort - and it should never be done without careful thought and consideration about what you do, if you are actually successful.

I think it got to that point that it was a necessary option and viable at UMissouri, but I think very little thought and consideration was put into what the University community does now.

Slippery slope.

I've been blasted by LRock for being insensitive so I really don't know if it is worth responding in this thread anymore, but protests and boycotts are fundamental to the reasoning behind this country's founding.

I am behind the students in their requests for training gs, diversity classes, etc. But I am apparently insensitive because I don't agree with the group's call for vengeance and arbitrary hirings.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I've been blasted by LRock for being insensitive so I really don't know if it is worth responding in this thread anymore, but protests and boycotts are fundamental to the reasoning behind this country's founding.

I am behind the students in their requests for training gs, diversity classes, etc. But I am apparently insensitive because I don't agree with the group's call for vengeance and arbitrary hirings.

Protests and boycotts are a method of expressing free speech. Absolutely. Incredibly valuable.

Here's the thing, and pay attention because it's important. It's not subtle difference. Making your opinoins and thoughts heard and expecting to be acknowledged and acted upon appropriately is a cornerstone of American society. Working toward having someone to be forcibly removed or forced to resign from a position of authority outside whatever existing community structure and guidelines exist for accountability and review is NOT a cornerstone of American society.

Working toward modifying accountability and review procedures such that leaders are actually held to a standard of performance that is supported by those they lead? That's a much better thing to do - IMO.

 

[Pudge]

Pinkel is in his 16th year at the University of Missouri

In places like that (thinking B12/SEC), that football coach tenure has more leverage than any old 2 year College President. As soon as he stood up, you knew where that teams was going with this. And, the Board and Boosters and State support - while they may be hurt and/or pissed - knew what had to happen.

Mutiny isn't the issue. The next shoe to drop is at another University where Black athletes decide to make a stand. Without the same power structure, you won't have near the same result.

 

[tiger8mush]

weird question/thought - wouldn't someone use feces to draw something they DON'T like? I mean, if I was given a warm lump and told to make a statement out of it, I'd probably write "BC" or "Cuse" in it, not something I care for like "UConn" or "family" etc.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Pinkel is in his 16th year at the University of Missouri

In places like that (thinking B12/SEC), that football coach tenure has more leverage than any old 2 year College President. As soon as he stood up, you knew where that teams was going with this. And, the Board and Boosters and State support - while they may be hurt and/or pissed - knew what had to happen.

Mutiny isn't the issue. The next shoe to drop is at another University where Black athletes decide to make a stand. Without the same power structure, you won't have near the same result.

What do the black athletes need to make a stand against? Why can't white athletes make a stand to? Or can they - just not about certain things?

What does making a stand mean anyway? Is there a difference between writing letters to every media outlet and state and federal elected representative expressing opinions regarding the desire for change on something vs. threatening a boycott/strike that can cost an institution millions? Should things have a stepwise progression or should the next time that a black athlete feels oppressed, the entire football team boycott the next game?

I disagree - mutiny is the issue, and what the issue has exposed is that at the UMissouri, the power structure was such that over time, a mutiny was what the community resorted to - for a personnel change in leadership, and you don't seem to be able to present a decent conceptual framework as to how that mutiny is going to result in anything positive changing for what led to the personnel change at the top.

As I get older and live through more, the simple phrases that have a lot of meaning in life become more and more important - and a very simple one, that goes way back in time, and has been described in countless ways and fashion - one my favorites is a twilight zone episode:

Is be careful what you wish for, because you may get it. .

UMissouri student community wanted new people in position of leadership, they're going to get it.

I'm going to try not to comment further on this.

 

[Nostical]

This is a Watershed moment for College Sports and what the NCAA feared.

I agree. If the players decide they need better medical coverage--etc.--and they are galvanized by a leading voice--they won't need a lawsuit. They can agree to boycott games. The Mizzou case opened a pandora box on player leverage. Now they need to find other causes for which they'll be willing to flex their muscles and risk the outcome. As for Coach Pinkel--he'll be able to tell any parent of a recruit in their living room that he has their son's back. And he has this to prove it. Watch out for Mizzou football moving forward.

 

[methodology]

A buddy of mine had an interesting hypothetical.

He said what if the 4 teams in the college playoff follow Missouri lead and boycott the bowl games unless they are paid. How would that be handled by the NCAA and the schools?

 

[Duncan Idaho]

did I say you were?

Also, from Pew Research:

"The polling finds that older generations – Boomers and especially Silents – do not fully embrace diversity. Fewer in these groups see the increasing populations of Latinos and Asians, as well as more racial intermarriage, as changes for the better. For many Silents in particular, Obama himself may represent an unwelcome indicator of the way the face of America has changed. Feelings of “unease” with Obama, along with higher levels of anger, are the emotions that most differentiate the attitudes of Silents from those of the youngest generation."

A pretty roundabout way of saying old white people are still racist.

Dont see any color in the paragraph you referenced Mick. Do you think you will become generally more conservative when you become part of an older generation?

 

[Dogged]

You realize the President was born in Kenya and attended madrassas in Indonesia, don't you? I'd call that a multicultural success.

Meanwhile the culture is dying.

 

[junglehusky]

Mutiny is a military term. Sailors in mutiny against their superior officers. Does not apply to civilians unless you live under a junta. (perhaps the dynamic at the Citadel or a service academy would be different... I'm sure there's good books written on how the branches were intergrated and the challenges they faced there.

Also, I must have missed the part of the Declaration or Constitution where it says a group that petitions for a redress of grievences related to X have to provide a plan for Y and Z.

 

[upstater]

Pinkel is in his 16th year at the University of Missouri

In places like that (thinking B12/SEC), that football coach tenure has more leverage than any old 2 year College President. As soon as he stood up, you knew where that teams was going with this. And, the Board and Boosters and State support - while they may be hurt and/or pissed - knew what had to happen.

Mutiny isn't the issue. The next shoe to drop is at another University where Black athletes decide to make a stand. Without the same power structure, you won't have near the same result.

As I wrote above, black students have taken the same exact course of action at other schools, and it didn't even make national news.

 

[upstater]

Meanwhile the culture is dying.

It was Obama's fault

 

[upstater]

A buddy of mine had an interesting hypothetical.

He said what if the 4 teams in the college playoff follow Missouri lead and boycott the bowl games unless they are paid. How would that be handled by the NCAA and the schools?

Theyd have to be damn certain the B1G was not serious when it said it will absolutely not pay athletes.

If the athletes overshot their hand and dealt a many hundreds of millions $$ to college football, there would be ramifications with all those monetary losses. OR, the B1G would give in and pay them.

I'd read this as an all or nothing gamble. I can't see how you pick up the pieces if you missed out on that payday.

 

[polycom]

This sets a terrible president, could you imagine the UConn Men's basketball team joining together saying they wont play... they could get UConn administration to do essentially anything...

 

[J187Money]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...to-students-by-university-of-missouri-police/

So now every "hurtful" act of speech should be reported to the police? Wonder how long until we protest the police for overstepping their bounds...

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

There was a lot objectionable about the demands, like taking over the curriculum, but there are a lot of people on that campus that could easily design a strong curriculum for such training.

Yes, we agree some or parts of the protesters' demands are objectionable. To varying degrees, others while less objectionable are challenging to expect any university to implement. For example, protesters' for all future chancellors and system-wide presidents to be selected by students and faculty. Not just input, but actual selection.

Undoubtedly, Mizzou's Columbia campus and the overall system have many reasonable people with the right background, skills, and experience to create a productive diversity training program. For a university with a highly respected journalism/mass media program, the mid-40s, white, female journalism professor shown late in videos beckoning help to block a student cameraman and news reporters and also demanding some muscle to physically remove them may not be among the top candidates. Irony?

 

[Dogged]

It was Obama's fault

Why do you say that? Not my opinion. Just like the Walmart remark.