OT Jackie BradleyJr

[Waquoit]

Fun fact from the article : The last team to beat 2 100-win teams in the playoffs was the 2004 Sox.

 

[Marat]

Red Sox clicking on all cylinders, give them the hardware right now.

The crazy thing JD, Mookie, nor Sale were major factors in the ALCS. I expect at least one of them to be in the WS.

 

[storrsroars]

Yankees fans can only watch as their greatest rival dominates again

And Red Sox fans are celebrating all the things they used to loathe and bitch about regarding the "big money Yankees".

Before I moved out here, Red Sox used to be my 2nd team after Mets as they shared a hatred of the Yankees (whom I still don't like). But like the former loveable loser Cubs fans, Sox fans are typically not what you'd call "good winners".

Kind of makes me hope Dombrowski saddles y'all with your own Victor Martinez.

 

[Guapo]

And Red Sox fans are celebrating all the things they used to loathe and bitch about regarding the "big money Yankees".

Stay out of this; go root for your Pirates and their pathetic ownership

 

[Husky25]

Banning shifts would be ridiculous. It would promote more offense, which is good to some degree, but any ball in play (pitch, for that matter) that does not result in an out only serves to prolong an already too long game. There needs to be a pitch clock, but that is a conversation for a different day.

Secondly, it's always been around. Just not as drastic or prevalent as it has become with the emergence of analyzing the minutiae of the game. There has always been times where the second baseman or shortstop would play close to or directly behind second base or the corners would play on the foul line or 40 feet off. Heck, I remember our Little League team doing a shift for one particular batter. He could hit the ball a ton and did most of the time. As a first baseman, I would be responsible for the entire right side of the infield, but in the typical 2nd baseman's starting position. The second baseman who play short and the shortstop would play left-center. There was literally no reason to have an infield when that kid came up to the plate.

Where the shift becomes annoying is when it is employed for 80% of the lineup including the weak hitting 2nd year shortstop who doesn't have the sample size to warrant a shift.

 

[superjohn]

And Red Sox fans are celebrating all the things they used to loathe and bitch about regarding the "big money Yankees".

That was always the biggest joke of small town Boston against "the evil empire." They have a great team nowadays but "the little engine that could" is a garbage myth. They are a hedge fund team, as corporate as it gets.

 

[Husky25]

Kind of makes me hope Dombrowski saddles y'all with your own Victor Martinez.

Ha ha. Doubtful Victor Martinez comes back to the Red Sox.

 

[storrsroars]

Stay out of this; go root for your Pirates and their pathetic ownership

Someone needs to be objective here!

Not that any of you big market fans care, but the current problem with the Pirates isn't the owner. Our hubristic GM disassembled a 98-win team, turned away JA Happ over pennies and thought Jon Niese could be a ToR pitcher. Pirates won't be a $150 mill payroll anytime soon, but they can go $110-$115 mill no sweat.

 

[Zanzman]

How do you change allegiance just cause you move ...... you deserve to have to move to Syracuse

 

[storrsroars]

How do you change allegiance just cause you move . you deserve to have to move to Syracuse

It was more than the move. I moved here in 2002, but stayed a Mets fan until the end of 2007. I really couldn't stand the mid-00s teams. Too many prima donnas and chokers. 7/17. So I moved onto the underpaid mutts who at least tried hard.

 

[Guapo]

That was always the biggest joke of small town Boston against "the evil empire." They have a great team nowadays but "the little engine that could" is a garbage myth. They are a hedge fund team, as corporate as it gets.

I don’t think there’s many Red Sox fans who still feel that way.

I think most have realized it wasn’t that the evil Yankees were buying championships (though they are evil, of course); it was that our racist and cheap ownership was holding the Sox back from their full potential.

 

[Guapo]

Someone needs to be objective here!

Not that any of you big market fans care, but the current problem with the Pirates isn't the owner. Our hubristic GM disassembled a 98-win team, turned away JA Happ over pennies and thought Jon Niese could be a ToR pitcher. Pirates won't be a $150 mill payroll anytime soon, but they can go $110-$115 mill no sweat.

Do you really think that the GM was acting on his own accord and not at the behest of the owner?

My opinion is, if you’re rich enough to buy a franchise, you should be rich enough to compete in the market. There should not be a salary cap in any sport; instead there should be a salary floor.

 

[storrsroars]

Do you really think that the GM was acting on his own accord and not at the behest of the owner?

My opinion is, if you’re rich enough to buy a franchise, you should be rich enough to compete in the market. There should not be a salary cap in any sport; instead there should be a salary floor.

Point to me an MLB owner or ownership group in the past 30 years who's gone into his/their own pocket. It's possible Ilitch might have just to see a winner before he died, but I'm not aware of any others.

The NFL/NBA/NHL wouldn't be viable at their current # of teams without caps. As long as TV deals are integral for revenue, the deck is stacked against small markets. Like I said earlier, being in a small market in MLB is like being in the G5.

I could deal with a floor if it's reasonable. However, I don't see a point in paying players that don't produce a ton of money just for purposes of meeting requirements of a "floor". Often when I see a floor discussed, it's in the $130 range. I'd start at $75-$80.

And to answer your first question - yes, I think Huntington did that on his own, thinking that Pirates coaching could fix any pitcher. He was actually quoted as saying, "pitchers should pay us to pitch here," in regards to Happ. Nutting may set a target budget, but he doesn't meddle with specifics, unless it's a bad character issue that affects PR.

Btw, I'm thoroughly enjoying this thread. Being banned from the women's board and all those OT threads over there and being banned from the Cesspool... I've missed arguing with everyone

 

[superjohn]

I don’t think there’s many Red Sox fans who still feel that way.

I think most have realized it wasn’t that the evil Yankees were buying championships (though they are evil, of course); it was that our racist and cheap ownership was holding the Sox back from their full potential.

It was the rallying cry for the whole city when you guys had the second or third highest payroll. Now you guys have won a few so no more crying about being the little guy. Sorry, I had to listen to it for years. It's the dishonesty part that bothers me, Oakland fans can gripe.

 

[Guapo]

It was the rallying cry for the whole city when you guys had the second or third highest payroll. Now you guys have won a few so no more crying about being the little guy. Sorry, I had to listen to it for years. It's the dishonesty part that bothers me, Oakland fans can gripe.

Not to re-litigate the bad old days but your payroll was like A LOT more than ours, even if we were #2 in 04.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Who cares? I root for Boston because, growing up in Manchester, that's who my friends rooted for (I had moved from KC at age 5). I have no interest in changing regardless of circumstances.

I did switch to the Bruins when I moved to the Boston area, because the Whalers were gone.

 

[superjohn]

Not to re-litigate the bad old days but your payroll was like A LOT more than ours, even if we were #2 in 04.

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Great, your payroll is $55 million more than the Yankees this year. Should Yankee ownership and the fans be crying about the evil empire Boston hedge funders?

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Great, your payroll is $55 million more than the Yankees this year. Should Yankee ownership and the fans be crying about the evil empire Boston hedge funders?

Jesus is anyone really still interested in these arguments?

 

[Guapo]

Great, your payroll is $55 million more than the Yankees this year. Should Yankee ownership and the fans be crying about the evil empire Boston hedge funders?

No! I agree, good for the Yankees! Good for the Red Sox. Most importantly: good for the players! I’m very pro-players getting paid their full market value.

 

[Husky25]

The Red Sox have only two high priced free agents on their team (Price and J.D. Martinez). There is no hard cap in baseball, so yes having money help cover up mistakes (Panda and Hanley) of past regimes and and other teams, but it does not necessarily always build a winning team.

The "Evil Empire" comment was made after the Red Sox lost (thankfully, in hindsight) the Jose Contreras Sweepstakes in December '02. The Yankees' player payroll for '03 was nearly $153M (Sox = $98.7M), and $35.5M (22.6%) over the 2nd highest payroll (Mets).

The Yankees list of notable free agents that off-season included, Hideki Matsui, Roger Clemens, and Contraras, added to Mike Mussina, David Wells, and Jason Giambi.

The 2018 Red Sox ($206.2M) actually have the second highest payroll to the Giants ($221.4M), according to USA Today, but the difference between then and now is that there are 6 teams (Sox, Cubs, Nationals, Mets, Astros, and Angels) within 22.6% of the top.

Betts, Benitendi, Bradley, Devers, Bogaerts, Pedroia, Swihart, Vaquez, E-Rod, and Workman, and Barnes are home grown.

Sale, Porcello, Eovaldi, Kelly, Kimbrel, Leon, Holt, Kinsler, and Pearce were acquired through trades.

 

[Guapo]

Great, your payroll is $55 million more than the Yankees this year. Should Yankee ownership and the fans be crying about the evil empire Boston hedge funders?

Whine away about the Red Sox higher payroll; but not at Red Sox fans or players, whine at your ownership for just not caring enough to spend the money needed to compete.

Obviously winning just means more to the Red Sox

 

[Waquoit]

Jesus is anyone really still interested in these arguments?

Especially since the Sox had homegrown talent at C, SS, 3B, RF, CF, LF and RP last night. His hate runs deep.

 

[superjohn]

Jesus is anyone really still interested in these arguments?

storrsroars brought up the Red Sox are the epitome of what they always whined about. Just because you guys finally won all is forgiven, you just stop pretending that you're small market? I could care less about who spends the most but don't cry poor when you're not.

Around the same time Sox fans were complaining about Yankees players taking steroids. One of their board of directors runs the investigation which conveniently names Yankees players while the Sox team was juicing to the gills. I just like to see things called straight.

 

[Guapo]

Especially since the Sox had homegrown talent at C, SS, 3B, RF, CF, LF and RP last night. His hate runs deep.

OT: but is that (completely homegrown) outfield the best defensive outfield ever?

 

[superjohn]

Especially since the Sox had homegrown talent at C, SS, 3B, RF, CF, LF and RP last night. His hate runs deep.

And there you go proving the hypocricy.