OT-Is Brady hurt?

[Jerry1714]

This makes no sense given my comment? That simply means I give a crap. It's the same way when I'm watching the UCONN men. It's an excruciating experience.

And your statement is backed by nothing either.

It is backed by attendance figures and years of living in Boston. I am not saying there are not great Pats fans, but they have the biggest fair weather fans I have ever encountered.

 

[intlzncster]

They don't need much, it's true. Chandler Jones contract will be interesting to watch

Jones is the least important of the big three: Collins/Hightower first. Jones third*.

They have depth at DE. Sheard is a very good starting caliber player. I'm fine going with him and Nink and getting a quality young backup or two.

Hightower and Collins are truly game changers. They HAVE to keep those guys. There's not much depth there, and the Pats looked pretty ugly this year with those guys out.

*Yes, I want to keep Jones very much.

 

[intlzncster]

It is backed by attendance figures and years of living in Boston. I am not saying there are not great Pats fans, but they have the biggest fair weather fans I have ever encountered.

I'd counter that that observation is based on a skewed perspective then. Not an insult, btw. You want to see real fair weather fans, live in San Diego or somewhere like that for a while.

IMO it's really similar to the trajectory of UCONN fans I think. A lot of success breeds complacency. Success caused some of the highest ticket prices in the NFL -> less fans go to games because of it. Further, in general, with all the big screen HD TV, the viewing/camera angles, ability to stay warm and entertain yourself during commercials, it's more enjoyable to watch NFL at home. Add in that the Pats aren't the only game in (a small) town.

And to top it all off, going to a game at Gillette is a nightmare. Getting there and back is a near death experience. I'm a diehard Pats fan, but I have no interest in going to a game because of all of these things. It's a worse experience than going to a bar.

 

[superjohn]

Intizncster, I like your basketball posts but you are really sounding like the type of New England fan that makes the organization so easy to hate.

 

[Jerry1714]

I'd counter that that observation is based on a skewed perspective then. Not an insult, btw. You want to see real fair weather fans, live in San Diego or somewhere like that for a while.

IMO it's really similar to the trajectory of UCONN fans I think. A lot of success breeds complacency. Success caused some of the highest ticket prices in the NFL -> less fans go to games because of it. Further, in general, with all the big screen HD TV, the viewing/camera angles, ability to stay warm and entertain yourself during commercials, it's more enjoyable to watch NFL at home. Add in that the Pats aren't the only game in (a small) town.

And to top it all off, going to a game at Gillette is a nightmare. Getting there and back is a near death experience. I'm a diehard Pats fan, but I have no interest in going to a game because of all of these things. It's a worse experience than going to a bar.

My attendance comment was the stadium was empty for decades, it was so bad their games were consistently blacked out, until they won a SB. It is not that they have bad attendance now, because they don't. Good chance once the Belicheck/Brady era is over things go back to the way it was prior to their arrival.

 

[mauconnfan]

The Patriots are as close to the football equivalent in the forced parity NFL as you are going to get. So it's to be expected.

C'mon are you kidding me? Ridiculous to even draw comparisons or even close. Again, this is what you guys think it's amazing.

 

[intlzncster]

Intizncster, I like your basketball posts but you are really sounding like the type of New England fan that makes the organization so easy to hate.

How am I not speaking any facts? Tell me with specifics. Who has a longer streak of legitimate dominance than the Patriots? Which team is it?

I'm one of the most rational NFL fans on this board, about all teams. And reading this board, I can tell I also watch more NFL across the board than most of the Yard. All you are doing is attacking the poster (me), and not the post. Twice in your last two posts.

The only problem is that you don't like the team (more specifically, the fans) that is at the front of the pack. Every year? Of course not. That's impossible withe the competitive structure of the NFL. But year in year out, under Brady/Belichick, the Patriots are always there. When they retire, it'll be back to the pack. Same as when Geno goes. That's life.

 

[intlzncster]

My attendance comment was the stadium was empty for decades, it was so bad their games were consistently blacked out, until they won a SB. It is not that they have bad attendance now, because they don't. Good chance once the Belicheck/Brady era is over things go back to the way it was prior to their arrival.

Yeah, but that's the normal life cycle of any team in any sport. How was UCONN's attendance before JC started winning?

Also, factor in that the NFL has exploded in the last 20+ years. Patriots attendance has coincided with that. And attendance was high prior to the BB/TB12 era. It really ramped up once Kraft bought the team and Parcells started coaching and winning.

 

[mauconnfan]

How am I not speaking any facts? Tell me with specifics. Who has a longer streak of legitimate dominance than the Patriots? Which team is it?

I'm one of the most rational NFL fans on this board, about all teams. And reading this board, I can tell I also watch more NFL across the board than most of the Yard. All you are doing is attacking the poster (me), and not the post. Twice in your last two posts.

The only problem is that you don't like the team that is at the front of the pack. Every year? Of course not. That's impossible withe the competitive structure of the NFL. But year in year out, under Brady/Belichick, the Patriots are always there. When they retire, it'll be back to the pack. Same as when Geno goes. That's life.

So the Yankees were always there too but they didn't amass championships in the same ay the UConn women do or dominate in that fashion relative to the parity. They are a successful organization no doubt but this is hilarious.

 

[intlzncster]

C'mon are you kidding me? Ridiculous to even draw comparisons or even close. Again, this is what you guys think it's amazing.

Again, bring some analysis to the table instead of attacking the fans. In the past 15 years:

• Super Bowl championships (4)
• Super Bowl Appearances (6)
• Conference championships (8)
• Division championships (13)
• Playoff appearances (13)

With the competitive structure of the NFL being what it is, that is patently absurd. Who comes close to this dominance?

 

[intlzncster]

So the Yankees were always there too but they didn't amass championships in the same ay the UConn women do or dominate in that fashion relative to the parity. They are a successful organization no doubt but this is hilarious.

As I said, it is because of the competitive structure of football. For many years (I'm speaking of the 90s), the Yankees could outspend other teams and win because of it; once other teams started using advanced metrics and increasing spending, the Yankees are no longer the championship favorite every single year. It used to feel preordained with them. It no longer does. And WCBB is so skewed by lack of parity it's hilarious.

There is enforced parity like no other in the NFL. Most teams struggle to sustain winning over a longer period than 3-4 years. The Patriots haven't. This isn't bragadacio. It's simply looking at a completely level playing field, and seeing that the Patriots keep winning. Do they always win the Superbowl? of course not. That's life in the NFL.

 

[Tenspro2002]

The interesting thing about this game is that it looks exactly like the Manning/Brady playoff duels of the early 2000's, but in reverse.

Manning is the game-manager, avoiding mistakes, coaxing enough out of his offense with a few key touchdown passes, and relying on a dominant defense to get the job done at home. The stats don't blow you away, but he's a winner.
Brady is the gun-slinger, pressured into turning the ball over, spending all afternoon on the turf, and coming up just short in critical moments on the road. He throws it over 50 times for 300 yards, but completes less than half of his passes and has more INTs than TDs.

 

[Jerry1714]

Yeah, but that's the normal life cycle of any team in any sport. How was UCONN's attendance before JC started winning?

Also, factor in that the NFL has exploded in the last 20+ years. Patriots attendance has coincided with that. And attendance was high prior to the BB/TB12 era. It really ramped up once Kraft bought the team and Parcells started coaching and winning.

This is simply not true and the Pats and NFL attendance figures show that. They had a 17 game blackout streak, that is absurdly bad. Pats attendance has coincided with winning plain and simple. Not every fan base only shows up when the team is winning, that is a ridiculous unsupported blanket statement.

 

[mauconnfan]

Again, bring some analysis to the table instead of attacking the fans. In the past 15 years:

Super Bowl championships (4)
Super Bowl Appearances (6)
Conference championships (8)
Division championships (13)
Playoff appearances (13)

With the competitive structure of the NFL being what it is, that is patently absurd. Who comes close to this dominance?

Ok then I'm good with it, they are the UConn Women of the NFL. I get that!

 

[intlzncster]

This is simply not true and the Pats and NFL attendance figures show that. They had a 17 game blackout streak, that is absurdly bad. Pats attendance has coincided with winning plain and simple. Not every fan base only shows up when the team is winning, that is a ridiculous unsupported blanket statement.

OK, close to home then: where were UCONN fans prior to Calhoun winning? You can say the same thing about our fanbase. Are UCONN fans fair weather overall? I don't think so.

 

[superjohn]

How am I not speaking any facts? Tell me with specifics. Who has a longer streak of legitimate dominance than the Patriots? Which team is it?

I'm one of the most rational NFL fans on this board, about all teams. And reading this board, I can tell I also watch more NFL across the board than most of the Yard. All you are doing is attacking the poster (me), and not the post. Twice in your last two posts.

The only problem is that you don't like the team (more specifically, the fans) that is at the front of the pack. Every year? Of course not. That's impossible withe the competitive structure of the NFL. But year in year out, under Brady/Belichick, the Patriots are always there. When they retire, it'll be back to the pack. Same as when Geno goes. That's life.

You made a post making a bunch of excuses for the Patriots losing yesterday then you followed it up with saying you don't enjoy any Patriots games unless they are up by more than three touchdowns. Now you are talking about how you are one of the most rational NFL fans on the board and watch more NFL than others on the yard. If you were trying to come off as arrogant you have succeeded. My main problem with the Patriots are the bandwagon fans, I'm not accusing you of being one but as I've stated many times I don't remember any Patriots fans in my hometown growing up, nowadays I go back and they are everywhere and they try and claim they have always been diehard. I call them all pink hats and to me they are the worst type of fan, saying they only enjoy watching the Patriots when they are up by more than 3 touchdowns sounds like something I would hear from this type of fan.

 

[intlzncster]

Ok then I'm good with it, they are the UConn Women of the NFL. I get that!

My original statement was: as close to the football equivalent in the forced parity NFL as you are going to get. Not the equivalent of. There is no such thing as the equivalent of UCONN WBB, except for UNC womens soccer and probably some squash team.

 

[Waquoit]

Two 4th down makes during the final drive was damn near heroic. Thanks have to be given to Peyton for his inability to close out the game.

 

[intlzncster]

You made a post making a bunch of excuses for the Patriots losing yesterday then you followed it up with saying you don't enjoy any Patriots games unless they are up by more than three touchdowns. Now you are talking about how you are one of the most rational NFL fans on the board and watch more NFL than others on the yard. If you were trying to come off as arrogant you have succeeded. My main problem with the Patriots are the bandwagon fans, I'm not accusing you of being one but as I've stated many times I don't remember any Patriots fans in my hometown growing up, nowadays I go back and they are everywhere and they try and claim they have always been diehard.

These are not excuses, they are simply explanations. Trying to figure out what went wrong. How can you not see that? Nobody said if all those things were fixed, the Patriots would have won. You have to come to some conclusions as to what went wrong. We do the same thing on this board vis a vis UCONN BB. It's called discussing sports. At the end of the day, both teams laced em up, and the better team on that day won. Now, why did that happen?

Maybe you are misconstruing my point about 'enjoying' games. This is what it means to me: I don't enjoy UCONN games unless we are up twenty. I'm simply saying I watch most games with my stomach twisted in knots, in veritable pain due to stress, unless we are crushing somebody. What's so weird about that? LOTS of fans are like this. It's called being passionate, and admittedly high stress about watching your team play.

As far as bandwagon fans go: Of course there is a lot of them. Isn't that the way it is for most successful teams? You basically have to accept those people are going to jump on when a team has success, and jump off when they don't. Heck, we even have the well known name for them in Boston: Pink Hats. Can't do anything about them.

 

[superjohn]

Two 4th down makes during the final drive was damn near heroic. Thanks have to be given to Peyton for his inability to close out the game.

Bwahahahaha. He made one great throw to Gronk on the 4th down, the other one was a wounded duck that Gronk got just because he's better than everyone else. Calling anything heroic about Brady's performance yesterday is nonsense, he had a poor game.

 

[Deepster]

It's nonsense that you think he wilts. He was crushed against the Giants in the SB a few years ago, and yet he broke the all time record for consecutive completions. The Ravens had him down and out twice in last year's AFCCG, and he brought them back from two 14 point deficits to win. Michael Bennett made a meal out of him with the Seahawks in the SB last year, and yet he turned in one of the best performances of all time. He moves in the pocket really well, better than any QB not named Marino.

That being said, if the only time I ever watched Brady was yesterday, I'd agree with you. It was one of the rare occasions the pressure got to him and rattled him. Then again, the stats this morning show that the 23 knockdowns were the highest on a QB for any game since 2005, AND the Broncos were doing it with 3 rushers, and flooding the field with 8 pass defenders.

2008 vs NYG: 29 of 48 (60%) for 266 yds, 1 TD, 0 INT and 14 pts (and 5 sacks)
2012 vs NYG: 27 of 41 (66%) for 276 yds, 2 TD, 1 INT and 17 pts (and 2 sacks)
2014 vs Balt: 33 of 50 (66%) for 367 yds, 3 TDs, 1 INT and 35 pts (and 2 sacks) - He was hit 6 times.
2015 vs Seat: 37 of 50 (74%) for 328 yds, 4 TDs, 2 INT and 28 pts (and 1 sack) - He was hit 11 times.

Other than the 2008 game against the Giants, it doesn't appear he was hit or sacked nearly as much as you insinuate in your post.

 

[Uconn77Duke74]

really wishing the Pats had kicked that field goal without about 4 minutes left instead of going for it on 4th down.

 

[intlzncster]

Manning is the game-manager, avoiding mistakes, coaxing enough out of his offense with a few key touchdown passes, and relying on a dominant defense to get the job done at home. The stats don't blow you away, but he's a winner.
Brady is the gun-slinger, pressured into turning the ball over, spending all afternoon on the turf, and coming up just short in critical moments on the road. He throws it over 50 times for 300 yards, but completes less than half of his passes and has more INTs than TDs.

It may be a little thing but I really think BB blew it by not receiving to start the game. They wanted to get ahead early, but it backfired. Should have gone with what worked all year (deferring). Trust a very good D to stuff the Broncos (they didn't), and let your offense work from there. And get the all important first possession of the second half.

But And Brady's interceptions (particularly--obviously--the one on the 20) were killer. An interception, especially one giving the other team great field position, are far more important stat than touchdown passes imo. It's almost like taking away points from yourself and giving the other team points at the same time.

 

[intlzncster]

really wishing the Pats had kicked that field goal without about 4 minutes left instead of going for it on 4th down.

BB didn't second guess either of those decisions whatsoever, according to his press conference. As is his custom, he gave a cursory explanation as to why. I would like to hear in more detail what goes into those things. I'm hoping for an amazing tell all book when he retires; would be fun to see what's going on in his head.

 

[Kitaman]

The interesting thing about this game is that it looks exactly like the Manning/Brady playoff duels of the early 2000's, but in reverse.

Manning is the game-manager, avoiding mistakes, coaxing enough out of his offense with a few key touchdown passes, and relying on a dominant defense to get the job done at home. The stats don't blow you away, but he's a winner.
Brady is the gun-slinger, pressured into turning the ball over, spending all afternoon on the turf, and coming up just short in critical moments on the road. He throws it over 50 times for 300 yards, but completes less than half of his passes and has more INTs than TDs.

Spot on. How many sacks did Manning take just to avoid throwing the ball away errantly, risking interception. I thought that was impressive and certainly in-game management, it also shows he does not panic.