OT: I was wrong about Steph Curry | Page 8 | The Boneyard

OT: I was wrong about Steph Curry

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auror said:
1) You're ascribing team things to 1 player.
2) Curry deserved MVP this year, and no, he was not as good as Lebron in the Finals. Both of those things can be true. 7-game sample size vs. 82. The value you give to MVP is up to you, but both the subjective value and all the statistical metrics deemed him the best player this regular season. That's not up for debate. He was better than LeBron during the season.


This is a joke, right? His team is one of the best offensive teams of all time, not just because of his scoring and shooting, but because of the space he creates, the rotations he forces, the mismatches he abuses, the passes he makes, his decisiveness with the ball, and other little things like leading the league in steals and creating semi-transition opportunities out of defensive cross-matches. These are all things that apparently you can't see, but you accuse me of not seeing the little things because Curry had 3 games with high turnovers and presumably not making "winning plays", despite his team winning more games than any other team in a single season.
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True but those guys also create space for him. Draymond and Klay specifically. Curry plays on the perfect team in the perfect system with the perfect teammates for His game. He certainly makes them better. But they make him better too. Did you see his stats without Draymond this year? People will say well curry makes the system. He certainly plays a large part. But the team runs pretty smoothly without him also. See Barbosa and Livingston in game 1 etc. gs made a lot of runs with him on the bench this postseason.

Curry doesn't necessarily make golden st the way guys he has been compared to (sometimes favorably as ridiculous as it was) like mj Kobe lebron etc. those guys were the system. Curry is just a part in his. There's a big difference.

Honestly if you put damien lillard on golden st, are they much different? I honestly don't think So.

Curry is a great player and a ridiculous shooter but he has been massively overrated as an all around basketball player. He got outplayed pretty handily for the majority of two straight 7 game series by the opposing teams point guard. He was the best player on his own team like once or twice maybe in those 14 games. He's great but not close to the level of mj Kobe lebron etc. and people need to stop saying he is.
 
mauconnfan said:
Kobe won twice w/o Shaq on teams that were deep and talented but not great. He may not be Lebron, but he's as close as it gets.
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And he was second on both of those teams in win shares to Gasol. It was just hard to tell because Gasol wasn't shooting on 30% of possessions.
 
CallMeBruce said:
Kobe was not the system when LA was awesome, Shaq was. Kobe is a glorified Scottie Pippen.
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Kobe is an all time great, I have him in the top 15 of all time and possibly top 10, better player than Pippen.

Top 6 greatest player I've ever seen, 30 years old.

Jordan
LeBron
Kobe/Shaq/Duncan/Hakeem

I didn't see Magic and Bird in their prime.
 
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CallMeBruce said:
And he was second on both of those teams in win shares to Gasol. It was just hard to tell because Gasol wasn't shooting on 30% of possessions.
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I get that but it was Kobe's team not Gasol's. Gasol was a good solid player but not great or at least one of the greatest, Kobe is one of the Top 10-15 greats without a doubt. And again, not a fan of Kobe so no skin in this game.
 
I just don't see how the best of all time list doesn't start with:

1) Jordan
2) LeBron

Everyone after that is up for discussion. You could round out the top 10 with any of Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Oscar, Duncan, Bird, Kobe, Hakeem, Shaq, West, Moses, and Elgin Baylor.
 
mauconnfan said:
I get that but it was Kobe's team not Gasol's. Gasol was a good solid player but not great or at least one of the greatest, Kobe is one of the Top 10-15 greats without a doubt. And again, not a fan of Kobe so no skin in this game.
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I hate to say it but you're right. Kobe's playoff numbers especially are awsome. Part of it comes from his position... I think you can argue that there are any number of great shooting guards who played on crappy teams that could have done the same thing in the same situation... Mitch Richmond comes to mind.... but the fact is that they didn't.

I'd throw Iverson in there too. I know a lot of people aren't huge fans but what he did basically by himself in Philly is incredible. Go look at that roster... George Lynch and Aaron McKie? Holy Christ.

My main issue with Kobe is that he gave himself his own nickname... ;)
 
IMind said:
I'd throw Iverson in there too. I know a lot of people aren't huge fans but what he did basically by himself in Philly is incredible. Go look at that roster... George Lynch and Aaron McKie? Holy Christ.
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For me, one of the most impressive playoff runs in history. When the likes of Eric Snow was critical to your run, damn. Iverson was soooooooo good.

My main issue with Kobe is that he gave himself his own nickname...
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He gave himself the nickname The Black Mamba? Dang, another thing he did right. That's the best nickname in the game, just such a perfect fit for that guy.
 
mauconnfan said:
I get that but it was Kobe's team not Gasol's. Gasol was a good solid player but not great or at least one of the greatest, Kobe is one of the Top 10-15 greats without a doubt. And again, not a fan of Kobe so no skin in this game.
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Gasol is a Hall of Famer.
 
CallMeBruce said:
Kobe was not the system when LA was awesome, Shaq was. Kobe is a glorified Scottie Pippen.
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Kobe and Pippen couldn't be further apart. Kobe is one of the greatest scorers of all-time, Pippen was a mediocre scorer who was a jack of all trades lock down defender.
 
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superjohn said:
Gasol is a Hall of Famer.
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Is he really? Guess I missed that never impressed me as a great big, would've been eaten alive by the bigs of the past, way too soft. But he was solid.
 
superjohn said:
Kobe and Pippen couldn't be further apart. Kobe is one of the greatest scorers of all-time, Pippen was a mediocre scorer . . .
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Pippen is 16th on the all time leading playoff scorer list. And that's with playing along side a guy who sits at #1.
In his prime he was a 20 point a game scorer on a team where he didn't need to be a top option.
He sits at 58th on the all time scoring list, higher than other "mediocre" scorers like Bob McAdoo, Mark Aguire, Tracy McGrady, and James Worthy.

clown.jpg
 
TasteofUConn said:
Pippen is 16th on the all time leading playoff scorer list. And that's with playing along side a guy who sits at #1.
In his prime he was a 20 point a game scorer on a team where he didn't need to be a top option.
He sits at 58th on the all time scoring list, higher than other "mediocre" scorers like Bob McAdoo, Mark Aguire, Tracy McGrady, and James Worthy.

clown.jpg
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Peak Frank Ivy, your troll game sucks. I hope the insult doesn't hurt Ms. delicate flower.
 
I had never heard of Curry until this year, and I have a feeling he'll fade away next year.
 
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temery said:
I had never heard of Curry until this year, and I have a feeling he'll fade away next year.
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That just means you weren't paying attention. He was MVP last year and his team won the finals.

He may fade away, but that would probably be due to an injury, not because he isn't good.

CallMeBruce said:
My point is they both won a lot of titles as the second-most important guy on a team.
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Do you really think Kobe was the second most important guy on his team during the non-Shaq titles? I'd bet even Pau Gasol would say Kobe was the most important player on that team.
 
temery said:
I had never heard of Curry until this year, and I have a feeling he'll fade away next year.
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So then you weren't a fan of the NBA... His team did win the finals last year, not to mention he won the MVP. You'd had to of heard of him during his run at Davidson as well, the Wisconsin game...
 
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Gringo said:
Do you really think Kobe was the second most important guy on his team during the non-Shaq titles? I'd bet even Pau Gasol would say Kobe was the most important player on that team.
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I don't know what Pau would say, but I do know that he ranked ahead of Kobe in win shares, plus-minus, and VORP in both of those seasons.
 
CallMeBruce said:
I don't know what Pau would say, but I do know that he ranked ahead of Kobe in win shares, plus-minus, and VORP in both of those seasons.
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And the eye test. :D

Shaq was the most dominant, unstoppable force I've personally seen in pro basketball.
 
superjohn said:
Completely disagree. Remember we are talking about right now, Curry is much more dominant right now than Lebron. Curry is the better passer, shooter, paint scorer, uses both hands better, ft shooter and he has his team playing as well as any team ever has. I will give you defender and rebounder but I don't really see how it's much of a debate on the offensive end.
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Curry will NEVER be a better pain scorer than a decent frontcourt player.. ever... so clearly never better than LeBron in the paint. His lack of defense shows he's still got a lot to do to be considered the best in the world... Kyrie Irving OWNED him.. That's a blueprint to slow him down on the offensive end.. Slow games down period... The isolation play is back ladies and gentlemen... Slow the game down a tad and bring back the one on one... Really see who has skills on both ends of the floor... But I do gotta give to Curry, he flourishes offensively in that camp out at the 3 point line system and run and gun show that they got in Golden State...
 
intlzncster said:
And the eye test. :D

Shaq was the most dominant, unstoppable force I've personally seen in pro basketball.
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We aren't talking about Shaq. Shaq was without a doubt the most important player on those Lakers teams that won titles. We are talking about whether Gasol was more important to the '09, '10 Laker teams than Kobe was.

It's interesting Gasol had better advanced stats, but I'd still say Kobe was more important than Gasol to those teams winning titles.
 
Gringo said:
We aren't talking about Shaq. .
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Yep, that's what happens when you read too quickly on the train.

Kobe definitely drew more attention than Gasol. He was 'the guy'.
 
ktuck911 said:
Kyrie Irving OWNED him.. That's a blueprint to slow him down on the offensive end.. Slow games down period... The isolation play is back ladies and gentlemen... Slow the game down a tad and bring back the one on one... ...
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Didn't look like Curry was 100% since he hurt himself earlier in the playoffs. . Probably a factor.
 
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