OT: I was wrong about Steph Curry | Page 4 | The Boneyard

OT: I was wrong about Steph Curry

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I'd like to see Curry play meaningful defense on someone who can score. But with defenders like Green, Andre, Thompson, who can defend the perimeter, he doesn't have to.
 
Huskyforlife said:
I'd like to see Curry play meaningful defense on someone who can score. But with defenders like Green, Andre, Thompson, who can defend the perimeter, he doesn't have to.
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When you say someone who can score are you saying another PG or just another player in the NBA?
 
TasteofUConn said:
You're off the hook. You keep suggesting that LBJ "hand picked" his team, as if - even if true - that should count against him.
No Love and no Irving and no Verajao and one other guy was gimpy in the finals and he STILL took two games from your team. That is a monstrous accomplishment. He sure didn't hand pick Delavedova to be his starting point guard.

Curry has been in the league for 6 full seasons. The first three, his team made the playoffs ZERO times. DID . . . NOT . . . EVEN . . . MAKE . . . THE . . . PLAYOFFS. Further, he was 21 years old already when he came into the league. The next two years, he gets booted in the 2nd round and then booted in the 1st round. 1st round boot! GONE! In his first five seasons the guy only gets out of the 1st round one time, then promptly loses.

This strikes you as "great player who can carry his team?"

LeBron took a bunch of BUMS past the first round every year for his first six years. BUMS, I tell ya, BUMS. Here's the list from his first year:

Andriuskevicius, Martynas, Gooden, Drew, Graham, Stephen, Henderson, Alan, Hughes, Larry, Ilgauskas, Zydrunas, Jackson, Luke, Jones, Damon, Marshall, Donyell,Murray, Ronald Shaw, Newble, Ira, Pavlović, Aleksandar, Snow, Eric, Varejão, Anderson

Amazing.

Finally, take a hard look at Curry's stats from last year versus the previous two years, when his team got bounced in the 1st round and the 2nd round. They are virtually the same as they were last year. Point is, why was Curry not carrying his team past the 1st round if he is that awesome? Answer - he's not in the same echelon as a guy like LBJ. He finally made it out of the first round when he had a dominant team around him.
Guy has one - ONE - year's worth of success and people are comparing him to LBJ.
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But the conversation is who is the better player right now. Not who has had the better career. Also, you just called Donyell Marshall a bum.
 
KingOPancakes said:
But the conversation is who is the better player right now. Not who has had the better career. Also, you just called Donyell Marshall a bum.
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Calling Zydrunas Ilgauskas a bum is also crazy. He was an all-star twice and averaged 13 and 8 over his 13 year career....
 
alfonse said:
I mean people love Ray here, I mean I loved Ray he was amazing. But he shot when he was open. Curry will drill it in your face and these are nba players knowing full well hes going to do that.
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You are either very young or didn't watch much NBA during Ray's prime. Either way, you are wrong. In his prime Ray scored in all kinds of ways, while usually being guarded by the other team's best defensive player.
 
Huskyforlife said:
I'd like to see Curry play meaningful defense on someone who can score. But with defenders like Green, Andre, Thompson, who can defend the perimeter, he doesn't have to.
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That's right, Curry's defense is statistically similar to Larry Bird's. Great team defender, but Larry wasn't shutting anyone down mano-a-mano.

Lookit, I LOVE Curry and would much rather watch him than LeBron. Adding the qualifier that 'history' doesn't count whether its nine years ago, two years ago or last year's finals is essentially admitting that LeBron HAS been the better player. So the pro-Curry crowds wants desperately to dethrone LeBron and crown Curry's . We all know LeBron saves an extra gear for the playoffs and until Curry is the finals MVP he's simply hasn't demonstrated elevating his game on the biggest stage which is what LeBron, Kobe, Jordan etc have done to be the reigning king of the hill. It might even end up the Russell Westbrook or Durant is in this mix at year end. Certainly Westbrook head to head vs Curry is very close and there is a statistical case that Westbrook holds the advantage in these matchups. How can Curry be definitively the best player in the NBA when there is another player at his position that has eaten Curry's lunch at times?


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=curryst01&p2=westbru01
 
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KingOPancakes said:
While I don't really disagree with anything you said here, you'll always be the guy that still staunchly believes the powerball lump sum number already factors in taxes, even when presented with mountains of evidence to the contrary. So....
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There's always an interesting mystery created by my ignore list when I see these posts.
 
TasteofUConn said:
You're off the hook. You keep suggesting that LBJ "hand picked" his team, as if - even if true - that should count against him.
No Love and no Irving and no Verajao and one other guy was gimpy in the finals and he STILL took two games from your team. That is a monstrous accomplishment. He sure didn't hand pick Delavedova to be his starting point guard.

Curry has been in the league for 6 full seasons. The first three, his team made the playoffs ZERO times. DID . . . NOT . . . EVEN . . . MAKE . . . THE . . . PLAYOFFS. Further, he was 21 years old already when he came into the league. The next two years, he gets booted in the 2nd round and then booted in the 1st round. 1st round boot! GONE! In his first five seasons the guy only gets out of the 1st round one time, then promptly loses.

This strikes you as "great player who can carry his team?"

LeBron took a bunch of BUMS past the first round every year for his first six years. BUMS, I tell ya, BUMS. Here's the list from his first year:

Andriuskevicius, Martynas, Gooden, Drew, Graham, Stephen, Henderson, Alan, Hughes, Larry, Ilgauskas, Zydrunas, Jackson, Luke, Jones, Damon, Marshall, Donyell,Murray, Ronald Shaw, Newble, Ira, Pavlović, Aleksandar, Snow, Eric, Varejão, Anderson

Amazing.

Finally, take a hard look at Curry's stats from last year versus the previous two years, when his team got bounced in the 1st round and the 2nd round. They are virtually the same as they were last year. Point is, why was Curry not carrying his team past the 1st round if he is that awesome? Answer - he's not in the same echelon as a guy like LBJ. He finally made it out of the first round when he had a dominant team around him.
Guy has one - ONE - year's worth of success and people are comparing him to LBJ.
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Again you are talking about Lebron from 8-9 years ago, Curry was at Davidson then. Yes, Lebron was way better than Curry back then and was better than him more recently but this discussion was about who is better right now and that's Curry. It was quite a feat that Lebron took "bums" to the finals close to a decade ago, it was also quite a feat when Jason Kidd took "bums" to the finals two years in a row before Lebron. While impressive both feats were possible because the East sucked so much. This is all nice to talk about but has zero to do with Curry being better than Lebron right now. You should focus on how Curry is kicking Lebron's arse in every offensive measure this season, his team is challenging the Bulls all-time record, and just curb stomped Lebron's team by 40 which paved the way for Lebron to get his coach fired.
 
superjohn said:
but has zero to do with Curry being better than Lebron right now.
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Oh. Right now?
Sure, there's an argument to be made that Curry, at this moment in time, is a more valuable (better) player than LeBron.

Curry will have to have about 10 more years like the last one and a half years before the conversation starts about which is better, in the aggregate.
 
TasteofUConn said:
Curry has a great supporting cast, with several guys who are going to have excellent careers, and played last season with a guy coming off the bench who would have started on every other team in the league.
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And they won 67 games and the title with one of the best point differentials ever. That's living up to the roster. Degree of difficulty is not inherently better as long as you achieve what you should with the good roster. Take away some of the supporting cast and put them in the East from 4 years ago and this year's Curry still wins 55 and makes Finals. Look at the teams the Cavs beat to get there. It was a joke.

TasteofUConn said:
Last year, for instance, LeBron managed to win 2 games in the finals against Curry's team. With Delavedova starting and guarding Curry!!!!! I mean, COME ON MAN!

It just occurred to me that I don't like Curry for the same reason I don't like Peyton Manning, which is to say that they're both great, but too many people argue that they're greater than they are.
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What happened in the other games? We all love 2 game sample sizes. Warriors won the other games by 8, 21, 13, and 8 and in the wins Curry averaged 27.5/8/5/2stl and was +60. +60 in 4 games! (LBJ was -32 in those 4 for the record and only +7 in the 2 wins).

Dogdeacon said:
and until Curry is the finals MVP he's simply hasn't demonstrated elevating his game on the biggest stage which is what LeBron, Kobe, Jordan etc have done to be the reigning king of the hill.
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Curry averaged 26, 6, and 5 on 44/39/89 and was +52 for the series. Slightly worse shooting numbers than normal (but considerably better shooting than Lebron in the series).
 
auror said:
Curry averaged 26, 6, and 5 on 44/39/89 and was +52 for the series. Slightly worse shooting numbers than normal (but considerably better shooting than Lebron in the series).
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If you are going to argue that Curry was more valuable than LeBron in finals I believe that's a biased opinion and there is no point continuing. If that same Cavs team (no Love and no Irving) played this year's Warriors I'd be shocked if it went 5 games. LeBron single-handedly kept them in the finals and they had puncher's chance with a vastly inferior roster.
 
Dogdeacon said:
If you are going to argue that Curry was more valuable than LeBron in finals I believe that's a biased opinion and there is no point continuing. If that same Cavs team (no Love and no Irving) played this year's Warriors I'd be shocked if it went 5 games. LeBron single-handedly kept them in the finals and they had puncher's chance with a vastly inferior roster.
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That answer was in response to a different quote about Curry rising to the occasion in the Finals.
 
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auror said:
That answer was in response to a different quote about Curry rising to the occasion in the Finals.
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Cool, I think we are getting to a tipping point between LeBron and Curry. If he stays healthy Curry easily collects his 2nd MVP and IF Curry plays in the postseason like he's been playing in the regular season (incidentally the Warriors are taking everyone's best shot and treating the reg season very seriously) and LeBron plays the same or worse than last postseason, then Curry will vault over LeBron in my eyes.
Kind of a qualified admission of the Curry side. Curry is playing better right now, I think who is the better player is ultimately determined when the stakes get higher.
 
7774 said:
You think the lump sum already takes taxes into account? That explains so much about your basketball related posts.
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My analysis is subjective, as is anybody else's. However, the way the lottery is taxed is written in terms anyone should be able to understand. A few members on here seem to have problems understanding how tax rates work, that explains so much about so many people's basketball related posts.
 
PcketknfNiels said:
My analysis is subjective, as is anybody else's. However, the way the lottery is taxed is written in terms anyone should be able to understand. A few members on here seem to have problems understanding how tax rates work, that explains so much about so many people's basketball related posts.
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Your willingness to stick to your guns no matter the evidence presented to you and with absolutely no evidence backing you up is something I really admire. It's hard not to imagine you at your computer with your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears going "la la la la la". You must be an absolute delight to have a conversation with in real life.
 
TasteofUConn said:
Oh. Right now?
Sure, there's an argument to be made that Curry, at this moment in time, is a more valuable (better) player than LeBron.

Curry will have to have about 10 more years like the last one and a half years before the conversation starts about which is better, in the aggregate.
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I don't buy that you thought the discussion was about who had the better career or who was better nine years ago, give me a break. Kemba Walker and 80% of the league is better than Kobe right now, that doesn't mean that Kemba and 80% of the league has always been better than Kobe.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
Yeah Curry has easily been the best player this year. Another point to think about is LeBron was pretty much a star in the league as an 18 year old, it took Curry a few years til he was about 25 to be at All Star level.
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Steph has been on an upward trajectory to be sure, but he's been playing at a very high level from the moment he came into the league.

AZHuskiePop said:
Curry didn't win an NBA championship ,the Warriors did,he has a great cast around him.
Put Curry on last year's Cleveland team without Lebron,and how far would he have carried them. Certainly not into the finals.
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So who makes the finals out of the east last year then? I know there were many great teams to choose from, but who would have come out of that loaded field?

CardiacAndre7 said:
Kevin Love isn't really all star level consistently anymore, Kyrie is constantly injured and their bench is pretty bad. I wouldn't say this Cleveland team is an all star team.
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Love put up 26-12 right before he went to Cleveland. He just slid into that Bosh role and his numbers went down as a result of getting less shots and not playing on the interior nearly as much.

CardiacAndre7 said:
I think alot of the reason why KLove is regressing is because he insists on being a corner specialist for some reason. And Kyrie still had a great season last year, he just got injured at the end and obviously hasn't been the same since, but he will be fine in a little time. About LeBron not making his teammates better like Curry does, how about all those Cleveland teams his first 7 season? Who were his best teammates? Mo Williams? Antwan Jamison? Daniel Gibson? He consistently averaged 5-7 assists and has been a great defender his whole career. He never had a team remotely near to what Curry has in his first stint with Cleveland.
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It's not Love who insists on spotting up in the corner, it's the offensive scheme and something that Lebron wanted to carry over from Miami when he had Bosh doing it. Lebron also wasn't that good defensively until about 2008-09.

TasteofUConn said:
You're off the hook. You keep suggesting that LBJ "hand picked" his team, as if - even if true - that should count against him.
No Love and no Irving and no Verajao and one other guy was gimpy in the finals and he STILL took two games from your team. That is a monstrous accomplishment. He sure didn't hand pick Delavedova to be his starting point guard.

Curry has been in the league for 6 full seasons. The first three, his team made the playoffs ZERO times. DID . . . NOT . . . EVEN . . . MAKE . . . THE . . . PLAYOFFS. Further, he was 21 years old already when he came into the league. The next two years, he gets booted in the 2nd round and then booted in the 1st round. 1st round boot! GONE! In his first five seasons the guy only gets out of the 1st round one time, then promptly loses.

This strikes you as "great player who can carry his team?"

LeBron took a bunch of BUMS past the first round every year for his first six years. BUMS, I tell ya, BUMS. Here's the list from his first year:

Andriuskevicius, Martynas, Gooden, Drew, Graham, Stephen, Henderson, Alan, Hughes, Larry, Ilgauskas, Zydrunas, Jackson, Luke, Jones, Damon, Marshall, Donyell,Murray, Ronald Shaw, Newble, Ira, Pavlović, Aleksandar, Snow, Eric, Varejão, Anderson

Amazing.

Finally, take a hard look at Curry's stats from last year versus the previous two years, when his team got bounced in the 1st round and the 2nd round. They are virtually the same as they were last year. Point is, why was Curry not carrying his team past the 1st round if he is that awesome? Answer - he's not in the same echelon as a guy like LBJ. He finally made it out of the first round when he had a dominant team around him.
Guy has one - ONE - year's worth of success and people are comparing him to LBJ.
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Boy, you sure do not understand how strength of conference works, huh?

Dogdeacon said:
That's right, Curry's defense is statistically similar to Larry Bird's. Great team defender, but Larry wasn't shutting anyone down mano-a-mano.

Lookit, I LOVE Curry and would much rather watch him than LeBron. Adding the qualifier that 'history' doesn't count whether its nine years ago, two years ago or last year's finals is essentially admitting that LeBron HAS been the better player. So the pro-Curry crowds wants desperately to dethrone LeBron and crown Curry's . We all know LeBron saves an extra gear for the playoffs and until Curry is the finals MVP he's simply hasn't demonstrated elevating his game on the biggest stage which is what LeBron, Kobe, Jordan etc have done to be the reigning king of the hill. It might even end up the Russell Westbrook or Durant is in this mix at year end. Certainly Westbrook head to head vs Curry is very close and there is a statistical case that Westbrook holds the advantage in these matchups. How can Curry be definitively the best player in the NBA when there is another player at his position that has eaten Curry's lunch at times?


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=curryst01&p2=westbru01
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That "extra gear" huh? Is that why Lebron is 2-4 in the finals?
 
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KingOPancakes said:
Your willingness to stick to your guns no matter the evidence presented to you and with absolutely no evidence backing you up is something I really admire. It's hard not to imagine you at your computer with your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears going "la la la la la". You must be an absolute delight to have a conversation with in real life.
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Do you have anything relevant to contribute to this thread? No? Well, we'll be seeing you later then.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
Better paint scorer? Really??? I get Curry gets all creative with his layups but LeBron can finish thru any type of contact, unlike Curry. Also passing wise, I've believed for a while, and it's not a very uncommon belief, that LeBron is one of if not the best passers in the league. He averaged the same assists as Curry from a Forward position. And we can argue that LeBron gets the ball whenever he wants, but he doesn't initiate the offense regularly like most point guards do. Just my opinion, but i think Curry's only advantage over LeBron is shooting, which admittedly is a very large advantage.
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Part of the difference, which is implicit in Johns post, is that curry is held to the standard of a human being while Lebron is basically a freak of nature. That's really the only way you can say, for example, that curry is a better paint scorer. Lebron is in a different category.
 
PcketknfNiels said:
Nice. He makes it through a terrible conference and has actually won the whole thing 2 of the 6 times he's made the finals.
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I adore the "terrible conference" argument.
It's the same argument that was used against us when we won in '11 - very weak field, no other good teams, Butler was awful.
 
TasteofUConn said:
I adore the "terrible conference" argument.
It's the same argument that was used against us when we won in '11 - very weak field, no other good teams, Butler was awful.
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Sort of the opposite argument, no? Lebron goes through an easier Eastern conference all year, and the first rounds of the playoffs before facing the big bad West in the finals... while 2011 UConn played in a conference that sent a record 11 teams to the tourney, and then went on a 10 game streak (8 of the opponents ranked in the top 25) before winning the NC against a lowly 8 seed?
 
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TasteofUConn said:
I adore the "terrible conference" argument.
It's the same argument that was used against us when we won in '11 - very weak field, no other good teams, Butler was awful.
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I adore that you think those 2 examples are remotely the same, or that winning a title in what could be described as a weak field is the same as using weak competition to make it to the title round only to lose.

Regardless, none of what you said was actually a defense or a counter to Lebron spending his entire career playing in a terrible conference.
 
Dogdeacon said:
Certainly Westbrook head to head vs Curry is very close and there is a statistical case that Westbrook holds the advantage in these matchups. How can Curry be definitively the best player in the NBA when there is another player at his position that has eaten Curry's lunch at times?


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=curryst01&p2=westbru01
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Just recognizing this post for bringing Westbrook in the conversation. Curry vs Westbrook would be an awesome matchup and I'm not sure who would have the edge. Westbrook is a bad !
 
Kitaman said:
Just recognizing this post for bringing Westbrook in the conversation. Curry vs Westbrook would be an awesome matchup and I'm not sure who would have the edge. Westbrook is a bad !
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Next Saturday night (2/6). Circle it on your calendar.
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
Part of the difference, which is implicit in Johns post, is that curry is held to the standard of a human being while Lebron is basically a freak of nature. That's really the only way you can say, for example, that curry is a better paint scorer. Lebron is in a different category.
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http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/73720/the-big-number-steph-curry-paint-by-numbers No they are being held to the same standards, the whole point of the thread is to compare them for what's going on right now. Are you really trying to say that Lebron is having a better season than Curry? I don't even see how that's arguable.
 
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