OT: I was wrong about Steph Curry

[TasteofUConn]

The advanced metrics actually favor Curry as a defender over Lebron.

Perhaps the advanced metrics should watch Curry attempt to guard Leonard.

People's perceptions of his defensive ability are still lagging behid reality.

Perhaps this is valid, but a lot of LeBron the last few years has been pacing himself to get to June and carry his team.

Curry is an alien, but he has the best supporting cast in the NBA right now, which makes a huge difference to what you can do on the court.

 

[Kitaman]

He show boats too much for my liking, and those behind the back passes disrespect the game. #getoffmylawn

I'm hoping you are being sarcastic, but anyone who does feel that way (and there are some who do) should avoid watching the Super Bowl.

 

[nomar]

in 25 years when my son is on wikipedia looking up old NBA stats like I was when I was a teenager, he will see "Most all-time 3pt field goals: RAY ALLEN"

No he won't. And that's kind of the point.

 

[MexicoHusky]

I have a group of friends who are starting to get annoyed with the incessant mouth guard chewing. It is a little silly, but it doesn't really bother me. Even my mouth guard hating friends recognize he's the best shooter they've ever seen. Except for one of them who's a Clippers fan. The Clippers fan claims JJ Reddick could do everything Curry can do if his team would just let him...laughable.

 

[auror]

Swap Curry for LeBron on the Cavs and they are demonstrably worse. Put LeBron on the Warriors and they are different, but even devil's advocates could only argue minor dropoff or they could actually get better via defensive upgrade.

Because the Cavs have Kyrie Irving who is redundant with Curry. This is a stupid argument.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

I have a group of friends who are starting to get annoyed with the incessant mouth guard chewing. It is a little silly, but it doesn't really bother me. Even my mouth guard hating friends recognize he's the best shooter they've ever seen. Except for one of them who's a Clippers fan. The Clippers fan claims JJ Reddick could do everything Curry can do if his team would just let him...laughable.

I HATE the mouth guard chewing. I think he is just trying to look cute. Also he is very pompous but he kind of has the right to be, still don't like it. Draymond annoys me alot more though. He acts like every shot he hits was the best shot ever, gets in peoples faces for no reason and is just an annoyance. Don't get me wrong, great player, I do think his stats are inflated a good amount due to the system, but the Warriors as a whole just kind of irk me

 

[tykurez]

Draymond Green is a clown. A very very very good clown.

 

[gtcam]

Comparing Curry and LeBron is, to me, a difficult thing to do.
Curry is shooting guard and has developed into a real good point guard.
LBJ is a guard in a 3 body.
There are things that Curry can do that LBJ can't and visa versa
I feel Curry can shoot better and right now can create better. Passing is a toss up. Rebounding belongs to LBJ.
Defense? If either wants to play that part of the game, because of size and strength, LBJ has the edge.
If I had to start a team, either one of them would be my 1st pick but I would edge to Curry because I said, it is my team, I don't need a player telling me what or how to do things!

 

[gtcam]

I HATE the mouth guard chewing. I think he is just trying to look cute. Also he is very pompous but he kind of has the right to be, still don't like it. Draymond annoys me alot more though. He acts like every shot he hits was the best shot ever, gets in peoples faces for no reason and is just an annoyance. Don't get me wrong, great player, I do think his stats are inflated a good amount due to the system, but the Warriors as a whole just kind of irk me

For a long time, LeBron was the champion mouth guard flipper, chewer and wear it on your ear.
Draymond Green is a monster. You make him out to be Cousins. I watch a lot of GS ball and Green is not demostrative on a consistent level - sometimes he gets caught up in the momment - its how he plays, very physical and due to that he gets caught up in some scruffs.

 

[tzznandrew]

What's hard about judging Curry is that he is literally unguardable if he is on. He has great handle, so he can blow by you, and when he's making shots standing in the center court logo, he's impossible to stop.

We've never seen a shooter do these sorts of things, at least not with a 3pt line.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Because the Cavs have Kyrie Irving who is redundant with Curry. This is a stupid argument.

Players that play different positions fit differently with different teams - I guess its not stupid to point that out but it doesn't effect the debate on who is better. Nevertheless, LeBron has literally proven that whatever team he is on, Cavs, Heat, Cavs again will make the finals. Add LeBron to a team and its a championship contender, we simply don't have that evidence with Curry.

Also that's why I put the finals stats in, I think more relevant to the debate, but I suppose next someone will point out that Curry and LeBron each played with different teammates against different defenses.

 

[superjohn]

Curry is having one of the greatest seasons in the history of the NBA, comparing Lebron's offensive game to Curry's this season isn't fair to either of them, Curry is better in every measurable. People are resorting to made up arguments like if they swapped places Lebron would be way better, this is pure nonsense and could never be proven. It's also really idiotic that some our trying to claim Lebron doesn't have much talent. He hand picked his team and picked the second best point guard in the league and one of the best forwards in the league. Lebron didn't play with much talent when he first came into the league but he's had unbelievable talent at his disposal since then.

 

[superjohn]

Steph Curry is absolutely the best player in the NBA right now. The difference between Steph Curry's PER and Lebron's PER is the same as between Lebron and Kenneth Faried. Also, Steph's Estimated Wins Added is 33% higher and he has a true shooting percentage 100 points higher. He is also averaging more assists and fewer turnovers with a nearly identical usage rate, and putting up 45/50/90 while averaging over 30 points. Its not close offensively, and that is not accounting for the impact he has on opposing defenses without touching the ball.

Lebron is arguably the greatest player of all time and definitely top 5, but he his athleticism has slipped and he is not the same player he was 5 years ago, particularly on the defensive end. The advanced metrics actually favor Curry as a defender over Lebron. People's perceptions of his defensive ability are still lagging behid reality.

Thanks for doing the numbers work, it's not even close right now and that's hard for a lot of people to wrap their head around.

 

[Excalibur]

Curry is having one of the greatest seasons in the history of the NBA, comparing Lebron's offensive game to Curry's this season isn't fair to either of them, Curry is better in every measurable. People are resorting to made up arguments like if they swapped places Lebron would be way better, this is pure nonsense and could never be proven. It's also really idiotic that some our trying to claim Lebron doesn't have much talent. He hand picked his team and picked the second best point guard in the league and one of the best forwards in the league. Lebron didn't play with much talent when he first came into the league but he's had unbelievable talent at his disposal since then.

The comparison was made, I think, more in reference to last year's finals, and it's a defensible argument there. The improvement in both Curry and GS from then to now has been remarkable. Curry is doing things that have never been done before on a team that is changing how the NBA game is played.

 

[BUConn10]

No he won't. And that's kind of the point.

How is that the point. If you read my post I'm saying until Curry surpasses Ray for the 3pt FGs record he won't have the title in my book. Whether he does that or not is yet to be determined, he certainly has a great shot at beating it but until then the record books stand. Like I said, it depends on how you define the phrase "greatest shooter in NBA history", for me I put an emphasis on the NBA history part in my argument.

 

[superjohn]

How is that the point. If you read my post I'm saying until Curry surpasses Ray for the 3pt FGs record he won't have the title in my book. Whether he does that or not is yet to be determined, he certainly has a great shot at beating it but until then the record books stand. Like I said, it depends on how you define the phrase "greatest shooter in NBA history", for me I put an emphasis on the NBA history part in my argument.

Longevity must be your whole thing. I also don't agree with you that Kareem and Malone are the two greatest scorers ever, Hank Aaron the greatest homerun hitter ever, Rose the greatest hitter ever etc.

 

[tzznandrew]

How is that the point. If you read my post I'm saying until Curry surpasses Ray for the 3pt FGs record he won't have the title in my book. Whether he does that or not is yet to be determined, he certainly has a great shot at beating it but until then the record books stand. Like I said, it depends on how you define the phrase "greatest shooter in NBA history", for me I put an emphasis on the NBA history part in my argument.

I mean, sure, I guess. But Curry has 3 season in the Top 5 of all time 3s made...and he's already in the Top 30 this year.

And that's not getting into the point that Curry is a career 44% shooter while Allen was 40%.

Regardless of whether Curry gets the all-time record, he's the best 3pt shooter ever.

Comparison: who was the better HR hitter, Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron?

 

[KingOPancakes]

How is that the point. If you read my post I'm saying until Curry surpasses Ray for the 3pt FGs record he won't have the title in my book. Whether he does that or not is yet to be determined, he certainly has a great shot at beating it but until then the record books stand. Like I said, it depends on how you define the phrase "greatest shooter in NBA history", for me I put an emphasis on the NBA history part in my argument.

Best 3 point shooter of all time isn't all about who hit more 3's. Lamar Odom has more career 3's than Larry bird. Is Lamar Odom a better 3 point shooter than Bird? Of course not.

 

[auror]

Players that play different positions fit differently with different teams - I guess its not stupid to point that out but it doesn't effect the debate on who is better. Nevertheless, LeBron has literally proven that whatever team he is on, Cavs, Heat, Cavs again will make the finals. Add LeBron to a team and its a championship contender, we simply don't have that evidence with Curry.

Sure, put Lebron on any team in the past 6 years in the terrible East and they're a Finals contender. I think the same would be true for last and this year's version of Curry.

I also believe the things that Curry has been doing much better than Lebron recently (shooting and creating with the ball) are more important than the things that Lebron is doing better (rebounding, defensive versatility), since those things can be made up by teammates and to a large extent scheme (individual rebounding is the most overrated aspect of basketball, especially in the current NBA where few teams crash the offensive glass and defensive is more team-focused than offense).

Curry fits with any team too (every team could use more spacing and shooting and most could use creating), except your example was putting him on the Cavs, who just happen to have one of the two other players in the entire league who do some of the same things as him almost as well. In fact, the problem isn't Curry's versatility, it's Kyrie's. He's less able to move to a different role (and Curry would be more able to play off ball), so he has to be the creator and so you lose Curry's creation.

 

[7774]

How is that the point. If you read my post I'm saying until Curry surpasses Ray for the 3pt FGs record he won't have the title in my book. Whether he does that or not is yet to be determined, he certainly has a great shot at beating it but until then the record books stand. Like I said, it depends on how you define the phrase "greatest shooter in NBA history", for me I put an emphasis on the NBA history part in my argument.

So basically you're just saying that you're never going to be able to grasp that shooting ability and longevity are 2 different skills.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Sure, put Lebron on any team in the past 6 years in the terrible East and they're a Finals contender. I think the same would be true for last and this year's version of Curry.

I don't think you can put Curry on say Boston or Wizards or HEAT and they'd definitely make the finals. Whereas LeBron has proven this is the case. And you'll never be able to prove me wrong b/c Golden State & Curry would be equally crazy to let him go
I think defense and versatility still put LeBron ahead by a hair, but they are the two best players in the NBA (& we can all differ on this just like we'd differ on #3 - Kobe) and Curry is ascending while LeBron is definitely on his back 9.

 

[superjohn]

I don't think you can put Curry on say Boston or Wizards or HEAT and they'd definitely make the finals. Whereas LeBron has proven this is the case. And you'll never be able to prove me wrong b/c Golden State & Curry would be equally crazy to let him go
I think defense and versatility still put LeBron ahead by a hair, but they are the two best players in the NBA (& we can all differ on this just like we'd differ on #3 - Kobe) and Curry is ascending while LeBron is definitely on his back 9.

Lebron has proven he can take Boston and Washington to the finals? He took the Heat to the finals several times with serious help from two of the other top 10 players in the league. This type of argument is beyond silly. Did you just say Kobe is your #3 player in the NBA? Kobe is currently one of the worst players in the league taking up a roster spot.

 

[BleedHuskyBlu]

How is that the point. If you read my post I'm saying until Curry surpasses Ray for the 3pt FGs record he won't have the title in my book. Whether he does that or not is yet to be determined, he certainly has a great shot at beating it but until then the record books stand. Like I said, it depends on how you define the phrase "greatest shooter in NBA history", for me I put an emphasis on the NBA history part in my argument.

If Currys career ended today he would still be the greatest 3pt shooter in NBA history

 

[KingOPancakes]

I don't think you can put Curry on say Boston or Wizards or HEAT and they'd definitely make the finals. Whereas LeBron has proven this is the case. And you'll never be able to prove me wrong b/c Golden State & Curry would be equally crazy to let him go
I think defense and versatility still put LeBron ahead by a hair, but they are the two best players in the NBA (& we can all differ on this just like we'd differ on #3 - Kobe) and Curry is ascending while LeBron is definitely on his back 9.

Lebron hasn't been on a terrible east team without 2 other perennial all stars since he was 25. So, no. He has not proven this is the case.

 

[tzznandrew]

To be fair, LeBron took a terrible team to the Finals in 2007...and promptly got massacred.

Last year's team had some great players, and if he willed the Love-less, Irving-less Cavs to a title that would have been the greatest Finals performance ever.