OT: Geno

[Frank Ivy]

The NBA engages in gender discrimination? Does that include propping up a women's league that is a money chasm specifically in the name of equality?

Did you really just argue that the NBA dumping money into an all-women's league refutes my affirmative action comments?
If you don't think that, back when this woman was hired, most major corporations (including the NBA) did not give race and gender preferences to lesser-qualified candidates then there's nothing to be said.

 

[Frank Ivy]

Frank isn't even trying to hide his racism there, is he?

Affirmative Action is racist.
Pointing out the flaws in affirmative action is not racist.

 

[HuskyNan]

Blackbird - Sandusky got away with it for a couple decades before it went public. This might be nothing, or the tip of the iceberg. Time will tell.

Sandusky was accused of abuse as early as 1998 and he had been banned from holding youth camps on the PSU campus in 2002. Part of the scandal is that Penn State knew about the abuse and did nothing or even covered it up.

If Geno were some kind of sleezebag, there would have to be three Athletic Directors and three University Presidents that agreed to cover it up. Maybe it's just me, but Prez Herbst doesn't seem like the type of women to shelter a guy accused of sexual assault nor is Geno's Associate Head Coach Chris Daily. I also think JC would have Geno's butt booted from the school if he got wind of something like that.

 

[Replicant]

How long before she pulls the race card.....

Too late, she already did. Not in the actual legal complaint mind you, but as hearsay in her NYTimes article.

 

[Huskymaniac]

Affirmative Action is racist.
Pointing out the flaws in affirmative action is not racist.

Agreed on affirmative action. Like any other well-intended progressive program, when taken too far they become counterproductive due to the unintended consequences. The liberals doth protest too much, me thinks. People who are riddled with guilt and/or self-loathing are often the most vocal. Like homophobes, we have racistphobes. And there are a lot more "phobes" out there.

 

[CL82]

Sandusky was accused of abuse as early as 1998 and he had been banned from holding youth camps on the PSU campus in 2002. Part of the scandal is that Penn State knew about the abuse and did nothing or even covered it up.

If Geno were some kind of sleezebag, there would have to be three Athletic Directors and three University Presidents that agreed to cover it up. Maybe it's just me, but Prez Herbst doesn't seem like the type of women to shelter a guy accused of sexual assault nor is Geno's Associate Head Coach Chris Daily. I also think JC would have Geno's butt booted from the school if he got wind of something like that.

Uh, Nan? Why are we equating what is, under the worst case scenario, a rebuffed flirtation, with a serial pedophile?

 

[HuskyNan]

Uh, Nan? Why are we equating what is, under the worst case scenario, a rebuffed flirtation, with a serial pedophile?

See Frank Ivy's post above. My point is that people knew about Sandusky and they knew over 10 years before his arrest. A campus, no matter how large, is still a small community and everyone knows everyone else's business so folks HAD to know about Sandusky. If Geno were the kind of guy that went around accosting women in any way, people would HAVE to know and a lot of people would have to cover it up.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Affirmative Action is racist.
Pointing out the flaws in affirmative action is not racist.

Agreed.
Its not my fault I've had the benefit of a 400-Year head-start.
They should stop whining and catch up.

 

[Frank Ivy]

They should stop whining and catch up.

What anybody should do is take advantage of the opportunities that are available, and not blame others for their failure to succeed.
So affirmative action has been around for about 40 years. Right?

How has the black community done in that time?

Illegitimacy rate today among blacks is about 7 in 10 births, or about three times what it was before AA.
A recent analysis of black males showed that only 47% graduate high school.
Nationwide, the highest state rate of "reading at 8th grade level" in 8th grade for black males was 15%. Note that these are kids who were born in the late 90s. Meaning that 30 or more years of affirmative action preceded their testing.

There are many other stats, almost all of them bad.

Affirmative Action and the welfare state have failed. Period. The two have conspired to create an entitlement and blame mentality that has resulted in black economic aspirations in this country being driven head first into the toilet.

Your affirmative action has failed. 40 years of applying leeches has accomplished a demolition of the black communities. If you want 360 more years of welfare and affirmative action - both of which stand for the insidious notion that black people can't make it without whitey's help notwithstanding a level playing field - to get to 400 even years, then you're dooming the black communities in this country even more than they are now.

 

[Frank Ivy]

If Geno were some kind of sleezebag.

I'm not saying he is or he isn't. I frankly don't care. I'm simply saying that it is entirely possible that he has been bold with women in the manner described in the complaint over the years and it has been covered up. Certainly not a sex abuse case, but not heart warming either.

Like I said - I could care less either way, but from an outside perspective, I'm giving it a 75% chance that somebody else comes forward and claims Geno acted boorishly.

 

[Mr.Phat]

The heart wants what it wants. Still, any unwitnessed advances are always difficult to prove. Note to self: If I ever become rich and famous, never get on an elevator with a single female and no one else.

It's not the heart that is the source of the problems in these situations.

 

[RS9999X]

Affirmative Acion was a great program for 20 years from 1967-87. Coming out of the Bush Recession of 1992 the flaws were readily apparent. Companies neeeded to be more nimble and AA was too generic. Women in particular made great strides fron 67-92. Burgeoning Hispanic immigration during high unemployment created disparities that were justly called reverse discrimination.

Clinton's review in 1998 was bold. I could argue that AA needed revision in 1998 to address some specific disparities. The argument then was that the pipeline was full of qualified candidates and an increasing number of management positions would be filled by women and minorities.

We saw one of the ugliest cases here in CT in Ricci v. DeStefano (the firefighters).

Ricci gave up a second job to have time to study for the test. Because he has dyslexia, he paid an acquaintance $1,000 to read his textbooks on to audiotapes. Ricci also made flashcards, took practice tests, worked with a study group, and participated in mock interviews. He placed 6th among 77 people who took the lieutenant's test

The Black dudes didn't study at all. They figured if enough failed they could file a law suit and the test should be based on field testing not books. New Haven voided the test and all Ricci's hard work.

Just ugly.

 

[blackbird]

Ironically, I believe the NBA is the best pro sport when it comes to including women. As zls said, the NBA has paid the tab for the WNBA for 10 years, it's hired female officials and put women into key positions (Security, etc). There are also female announcers for games. I know the network chooses the announcers but if the NBA had a beef with it, the women would be gone. The extent that the NBA has gone to to incorporate women is a thousand times better than NFL (whose inclusion of women seems limited to Erin Andrews and her cleavage), MLB and the NHL.

Yea, the NBA seems to be better than just about any other sports league with gender equality. It's not good. But it's better than the rest.

Although, the idea that the NBA is "Dumping" money into the WNBA is uninformed, to say the least.

 

[zls44]

What anybody should do is take advantage of the opportunities that are available, and not blame others for their failure to succeed.
So affirmative action has been around for about 40 years. Right?

How has the black community done in that time?

Illegitimacy rate today among blacks is about 7 in 10 births, or about three times what it was before AA.
A recent analysis of black males showed that only 47% graduate high school.
Nationwide, the highest state rate of "reading at 8th grade level" in 8th grade for black males was 15%. Note that these are kids who were born in the late 90s. Meaning that 30 or more years of affirmative action preceded their testing.

There are many other stats, almost all of them bad.

Affirmative Action and the welfare state have failed. Period. The two have conspired to create an entitlement and blame mentality that has resulted in black economic aspirations in this country being driven head first into the toilet.

Your affirmative action has failed. 40 years of applying leeches has accomplished a demolition of the black communities. If you want 360 more years of welfare and affirmative action - both of which stand for the insidious notion that black people can't make it without whitey's help notwithstanding a level playing field - to get to 400 even years, then you're dooming the black communities in this country even more than they are now.

Most people dig themselves a hole using a shovel.

FrankIvy prefers using dynamite.

 

[babysheep]

My wife and I saw this on the 10 o'clock news. We each blurted out "sour grapes".

Just curious, how is this sour grapes?

 

[Frank Ivy]

Just curious, how is this sour grapes?

She didn't get the job, she's upset, she wants to lash out at somebody, she picked geno.
That wasn't obvious to you?

 

[Huskymaniac]

Agreed.
Its not my fault I've had the benefit of a 400-Year head-start.
They should stop whining and catch up.

Funny how people will think what Frank Ivy wrote was ignorant but will just gloss over a statement like this which, in my opinion, is way more ignorant. My father had an 8th grade education and grew up on a farm in a country devastated by World War II. They were so poor after the war that, when their well ran dry, he had to dig a new well, by himself, with HAND TOOLS. To ZLS, how about that hole and that shovel! He came to this country with no money and unable to speak the language AT ALL. He lived with his uncle in Bridgeport who worked at a low paying blue collar job. He slept in his cousin's room which was available because his cousin was serving in the Navy. He learned the language and worked in construction and in a machine shop. His son attended MIT and got a graduate degree in engineering. Tell me where the 400 year head start occured in this scenario. By the way, we belong to an ethnic group that STILL has not seen one of its own win the presidency and was, not long ago, relegated to the ghettos as new immigrants. By not long ago, I mean way less than 100 years.

 

[MarieM]

if Geno discriminates against "women" like she claims then whys Geno coaching a WOMEN'S team in the olympics lol she just wants some money .. poor lady smh

 

[babysheep]

She didn't get the job, she's upset, she wants to lash out at somebody, she picked geno.
That wasn't obvious to you?

That's quite the stretch

 

[Frank Ivy]

That's quite the stretch

Of course it's quite a stretch. Probably, it's not true.
But you asked what his meaning was. His meaning was, to me, straightforward, even if unlikely.
It's like somebody saying they saw a ghost in the attic.
I don't ask, "what do you mean by that?" because it's unlikely (impossible).

 

[babysheep]

Just seems more like actual revenge than just sour grapes

 

[zls44]

Funny how people will think what Frank Ivy wrote was ignorant but will just gloss over a statement like this which, in my opinion, is way more ignorant. My father had an 8th grade education and grew up on a farm in a country devastated by World War II. They were so poor after the war that, when their well ran dry, he had to dig a new well, by himself, with HAND TOOLS. To ZLS, how about that hole and that shovel! He came to this country with no money and unable to speak the language AT ALL. He lived with his uncle in Bridgeport who worked at a low paying blue collar job. He slept in his cousin's room which was available because his cousin was serving in the Navy. He learned the language and worked in construction and in a machine shop. His son attended MIT and got a graduate degree in engineering. Tell me where the 400 year head start occured in this scenario. By the way, we belong to an ethnic group that STILL has not seen one of its own win the presidency and was, not long ago, relegated to the ghettos as new immigrants. By not long ago, I mean way less than 100 years.

If you really dont think that a white immigrant in the fifties had a leg up on every African-American alive, then I dont know what to tell you.

I think the real problem us that youre implying this woman didn't work just as hard to get her job. You dont know that.

But you seem more than ready to assume that.

I wonder why that is.

 

[TRest]

Funny how people will think what Frank Ivy wrote was ignorant but will just gloss over a statement like this which, in my opinion, is way more ignorant. My father had an 8th grade education and grew up on a farm in a country devastated by World War II. They were so poor after the war that, when their well ran dry, he had to dig a new well, by himself, with HAND TOOLS. To ZLS, how about that hole and that shovel! He came to this country with no money and unable to speak the language AT ALL. He lived with his uncle in Bridgeport who worked at a low paying blue collar job. He slept in his cousin's room which was available because his cousin was serving in the Navy. He learned the language and worked in construction and in a machine shop. His son attended MIT and got a graduate degree in engineering. Tell me where the 400 year head start occured in this scenario. By the way, we belong to an ethnic group that STILL has not seen one of its own win the presidency and was, not long ago, relegated to the ghettos as new immigrants. By not long ago, I mean way less than 100 years.

You attended MIT?

 

[arnie3]

You attended MIT?

I was thinking the same thing, but would have added: if so what are you doing on this board?

 

[TRest]

It's not the heart that is the source of the problems in these situations.

I was trying to be diplomatic to all involved.

 

[DoctorBombay]

What anybody should do is take advantage of the opportunities that are available, and not blame others for their failure to succeed.
So affirmative action has been around for about 40 years. Right?

How has the black community done in that time?

Illegitimacy rate today among blacks is about 7 in 10 births, or about three times what it was before AA.
A recent analysis of black males showed that only 47% graduate high school.
Nationwide, the highest state rate of "reading at 8th grade level" in 8th grade for black males was 15%. Note that these are kids who were born in the late 90s. Meaning that 30 or more years of affirmative action preceded their testing.

There are many other stats, almost all of them bad.

Affirmative Action and the welfare state have failed. Period. The two have conspired to create an entitlement and blame mentality that has resulted in black economic aspirations in this country being driven head first into the toilet.

Your affirmative action has failed. 40 years of applying leeches has accomplished a demolition of the black communities. If you want 360 more years of welfare and affirmative action - both of which stand for the insidious notion that black people can't make it without whitey's help notwithstanding a level playing field - to get to 400 even years, then you're dooming the black communities in this country even more than they are now.

Frank...it's very telling that you chose to ignore the "400 Year head-start", and focused only on the "stop whining and catch up" part. The problem with those of your mindset is that they simply refuse to acknowledge and accept the vital role that HISTORY plays in this country. You act as if 40 years of legislated Affirmative Action, is somehow equivalent to 400 years of systematic, entrenched, not to mention violent racial discrimination. AA has only been around for a few generations, yet you expect quantum leaps and results equivalent to 400 years of the opposite...immediately...with no hiccups? Seriously?
There is NO DOUBT that things are better for Blacks and other minorities. But the myopic and xenophobic perspective that you & your ilk bring to the discussion, is both morally & intellectually weak.
You choose to focus on recent history (40 years) yet totally dismiss the prior 360 years, as if its just a footnote & not an integral part of the discussion. That's silly, simplistic, and frankly, just lazy.
Its so much simpler to sit on the side and rail against "those people" and why they "can't get their shit together"....with all its implied prejudices and assumptions.
As a wise man once said:
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance, and conscientious stupidity". -MLK-
I rest my case.

 

[CL82]

Funny how people will think what Frank Ivy wrote was ignorant but will just gloss over a statement like this which, in my opinion, is way more ignorant. My father had an 8th grade education and grew up on a farm in a country devastated by World War II. They were so poor after the war that, when their well ran dry, he had to dig a new well, by himself, with HAND TOOLS. To ZLS, how about that hole and that shovel! He came to this country with no money and unable to speak the language AT ALL. He lived with his uncle in Bridgeport who worked at a low paying blue collar job. He slept in his cousin's room which was available because his cousin was serving in the Navy. He learned the language and worked in construction and in a machine shop. His son attended MIT and got a graduate degree in engineering. Tell me where the 400 year head start occured in this scenario. By the way, we belong to an ethnic group that STILL has not seen one of its own win the presidency and was, not long ago, relegated to the ghettos as new immigrants. By not long ago, I mean way less than 100 years.

I enjoyed reading this story. A lot of what has made this country great over the years can be found within it.

As to the AA debate, take it to the Cesspool and have at. Frank makes some decent points he just chooses to obscure them with needlessly inflamatory retoric.

 

[Frank Ivy]

Frank...it's very telling that you chose to ignore the "400 Year head-start"

In fact I didn't. It was more a question of not writing an essay.

A poor black man and a poor Italian immigrant walk in for a job in 1955. The problem the black guy has is not the previous 400 years. The problem he has is that his skin is black and most white people in that day were racists. He's as qualified (if not more) than the Italian who doesn't speak English. The problem is that the boss doesn't want to hire a black guy.

The problem that I have with your logic, and those who present your argument, is that you say things like 400 year head start, but you don't say exactly what that means in terms of the here and now.

If two men walk in for a job in 2012 and they're the same candidate except for skin color, all that is going to affect the choice is racism. Not history.

So the 400 number is thrown around as if to imply that we need a few hundred more years of affirmative action racism to make it all equal.

But that argument suggests something that isn't true - that the Italian immigrant somehow has some sort of accrued benefit that the black man doesn't. Nonsense. He has only his skin color.

The solution to that is to pass laws that make it illegal to hire based on race. Those laws exist.

So what's left? The notion that "400 years" of slavery have caused some sort of what? Economic divide? Nah. There are many more poor white people in America than poor black people. That can't be it. Then what?

Culture? Ahah! Is that what you're suggesting? That 400 years of slavery have created a lasting cultural impact that causes black failure?

But, if that's the case, then 40 years of AA have not solved the problem. In fact, black culture since 1950 has taken a tremendously destructive turn for the worse.

So what exactly is your argument? How, exactly, have 400 years of slavery led to the horrific condition of blacks in this country? And, given that the first 40 years of AA have been a miserable failure, why is it that you expect another 40 years to produce a different result?

I love MLK - a true intellectual giant in American history. But I'll offer a quote from another ethnic minority for you - "to do the same thing repeatedly and expect a different result is the definition of stupidity."

Ultimately, I believe welfare and AA are incredibly destructive. The information we have from the last 40 years surely supports that.

 

[Huskymaniac]

I was thinking the same thing, but would have added: if so what are you doing on this board?

Slumming....

 

[Huskymaniac]

If you really dont think that a white immigrant in the fifties had a leg up on every African-American alive, then I dont know what to tell you.

I think the real problem us that youre implying this woman didn't work just as hard to get her job. You dont know that.

But you seem more than ready to assume that.

I wonder why that is.

Where did I imply that? I said that claiming I, or my father, had a 400 year head start is a load of crap. You are correct that a black male in 1950 had a tougher time than a poor white immigrant and especially in the south. But would you say that a poor white immigrant male who didn't speak the language and had an 8th grade education in 1950 had it easier than a black male in 2010? If you believe that then I don't know what to tell you. The fact that many black males are successful in OUR generation proves it is possible. The fact that many more are still struggling tells me that a lot of progressive policies have actually been detrimental. So many policies and so many programs that started out as great ideas were distorted into monstrocities that have actually hurt the people they intended to help. I think one could argue that a black kid growing up in Harlem in 1950 had it better in many ways than a black kid growing up there today. Clearly some issues were overcome in the past 60-70 years but new issues popped up. It is arguable but I believe MLK would be very upset at the damage the black community allowed white liberal politicians to do to them and the civil rights movement. Just curious, what do think of Bill Cosby and some of his statements to the black community in recent years? I think the man is very wise.