OT Anthony Bourdain dead

[intlzncster]

Corruption is why their economies struggle. Not lack of work ethic.

That goes for most of Latin America. Conversely, Chile has turned into a model economically speaking at the moment.

 

[Mokum]

That goes for most of Latin America. Conversely, Chile has turned into a model economically speaking at the moment.

I was just down in Greece working. People are poor thanks to bankers, and government. They work hard there, and get little return. There are hustlers all over in Athens trying to sell you the same cheap souvenirs and crap, that's all they can do.

 

[Mokum]

Greeks retire at like 50.

Nonsense. I was just there, working. Plenty of people over 50 working their butts off.

 

[Jaker]

CNN must be really bumm,ed because his show was the only good one they have, the rest of their programming is garbage.

 

[DogMania]

I don't think it's a switch at all. It's something going on inside of people all the time. But we learn to hide it. We learn not to talk about it, because you're not supposed to talk about it. Because people tell you to cheer up, to be happy for yourself, to count your blessings.

So quietly, you suffer, and you go on, every day, because you're supposed to be happy, and you're supposed to feel satisfied, and all this success is supposed to mean something, but you just feel empty and worthless inside, and you know you don't deserve it.

Depression doesn't care if you're rich or handsome or powerful or popular or surrounded by people who worship you. Why would you think it does? Does diabetes care if you're rich? Does cancer care if you have a TV show or a bestselling book?

We still don't take it seriously as a disease. We say, "How can someone with such a life be depressed," because we still think, well, they should just *choose* to be happy. As if people wouldn't choose that option if they could.

All you can do is just try to manage it. And sometimes, you lose that battle. Sometimes, the depression just wears you down, and you're so tired of feeling so sh!tty, of feeling like nothing matters, of feeling like you're worthless and unworthy of love, that you'd rather just not be alive anymore.

But please don't view it as a reflection of who these people are. It's not. It's the disease.

Get help if you can. Go to therapy. Get treatment. It can help. It's helped me.

But it doesn't help everyone. And we need to look at it honestly as a disease.

Well put. Some people just struggle with feeling depressed and just can't shake it. Many who struggle with substance abuse try to do anything so that they don't feel this horrible feeling that they just can't seem to shake. For some their depression doesn't seem to align with their life's circumstances. I have a friend who seems to have everything a guy would want, but he just struggles all the time with this.

I'm actually going through a really difficult time right now, I don't want to get into it, but it is a very real situation I'm in, and I'm often struggling where there just isn't an immediate option that will make me happy and take away some of the deep dark feelings that I'm wrestling with at the moment. I've never had a problem with substance abuse or drinking, but I completely understand now why some people go down that route, and even suicide, because they'll do anything that will take away the deep feelings of desperation.

Now I happen to be a person who has strong faith in God who believes that He works all things out for his glory and our good even though I don't always feel that way or understand why things happen the way they do. Frankly, I don't know how people get through really difficult situations without faith, since so much in life is out of our control. You can have all the money in the world but it can't take away a deadly disease, bring back the death of a loved one, make someone love you, rid oneself of clinical depression, etc.

It's extremely sad and heartbreaking when someone gets to the point where they feel the only way out is to take their own life. It is a very selfish and desperate act that leaves those around them in a lot of pain. It's very sad when those who take their own life failed seek out help, which is often readily available. Though there are some that have explored many options for their depression and nothing seem to work.

For me, and again I know not everyone believes how I do, there is something very powerful about having a God that loves us just as we are, even with all our flaws and brokenness. That there's no circumstance or bad decision that can ever separate us from his love. I think everyone wants to feel valued and loved. Those who take their lives, feel they are worthless. Many, not saying all, have had some significant abuse in their life at some point in time that they've never been able to come to grips with. They often believe the lies that were forced on them by those who abused them or wounded them deeply.

Fortunately, I've met many who have overcome a lot of darkness in their life by embracing the faith that I'm talking about, and are living amazing lives now.

I'm sure there are many who are reading this thread and feel a lot of desperation about their lives. I encourage anyone who feels that way, go and talk to someone that they know who has a lot of faith in God and has overcome some big challenges in their lives. You might just find the freedom from what you've been wrestling with for a very long time.

Anyhow, I completely empathize with those who are struggling with depression, may it be the result of some really difficult circumstances, or just something they struggle with. I just hope that those who do, seek out some sort of help. If anyone is interested in a faith-based program, there's one call Celebrate Recovery. You can look it up on the internet and probably find some locations that have the program, but you're welcome to send me a private IM and I'd be glad to tell you about the program and point you in the right direction.

 

[A10 fan]

I wonder how his physical health was. Many times, these people don't have a psychological problem, they've been diagnosed with a devastating disease, and just don't want to deal with either a great deal of pain, or a gradual loss of their capabilities. This is apparently what happened with Robin Williams. Being told you have cancer, Aids, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, etc., can be more than some people are willing to deal with. It wouldn't shock me at all if Bourdain was dealing with some sort of illness.

 

[Paesano]

I wish you all peace.

 

[jibsey]

I wonder how his physical health was. Many times, these people don't have a psychological problem, they've been diagnosed with a devastating disease, and just don't want to deal with either a great deal of pain, or a gradual loss of their capabilities. This is apparently what happened with Robin Williams. Being told you have cancer, Aids, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, etc., can be more than some people are willing to deal with. It wouldn't shock me at all if Bourdain was dealing with some sort of illness.

This is a good point. Depression plus a hopeless diagnosis can easily push someone over the edge.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

It's extremely sad and heartbreaking when someone gets to the point where they feel the only way out is to take their own life. It is a very selfish and desperate act that leaves those around them in a lot of pain. It's very sad when those who take their own life failed seek out help, which is often readily available. Though there are some that have explored many options for their depression and nothing seem to work.

I think you made some great points, but you really undo it here by calling them selfish. Is it selfish to die of cancer? Is it selfish to die of diabetes?

If depression is a real disease, then suicide is a result of the disease. It's not a rational decision-making process. It's not made by someone who knows what they're doing. It's part of the disease.

I wish people would stop calling suicide selfish. You aren't helping. Making depressed people feel worse is not the move. Making the survivors of a suicide feel like the person who died was selfish is definitely not helping them grieve.

Suicide is an act of desperation from someone seeking relief from pain, done under the duress of a disease. Like a body breaking down after chemotherapy.

It's not their fault.

 

[intlzncster]

If depression is a real disease, then suicide is a result of the disease. It's not a rational decision-making process. It's not made by someone who knows what they're doing. It's part of the disease.

I wish people would stop calling suicide selfish. You aren't helping. Making depressed people feel worse is not the move. Making the survivors of a suicide feel like the person who died was selfish is definitely not helping them grieve.

Suicide is an act of desperation from someone seeking relief from pain, done under the duress of a disease. Like a body breaking down after chemotherapy.

It's not their fault.

I get in this argument with people on this subject. On the one hand, I understand their point of view, because it's their hard emotional empathic reaction to the devastating consequences of the deceased person's actions. But I remind them they are thinking rationally about the situation.

It's important to realize people who commit suicide due to depression have brains which are functioning suboptimally. There are significant areas of the brain functioning at lower levels than normal or even not at all. Physically, it's akin to a hard drive with a number of damaged sectors; eventually, it craps out.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

That goes for most of Latin America. Conversely, Chile has turned into a model economically speaking at the moment.

Chile's strong agricultural base and widely diverse natural resources are big differentiators, yet one of the few positives dating to Pinochet's dictatorship was the nation's innovative tri-pillar, privatized pension reform. Tweaked through the years and ideally undergoing additional refinement to increase distributions soon, Chile's pension system continues to serve as a base or model for many other nations (developed and emerging alike).

 

[intlzncster]

Chile's strong agricultural base and widely diverse natural resources are big differentiators, yet one of the few positives dating to Pinochet's dictatorship was the nation's innovative tri-pillar, privatized pension reform. Tweaked through the years and ideally undergoing additional refinement to increase distributions soon, Chile's pension system continues to serve as a base or model for many other nations (developed and emerging alike).

It's not just that though, it's a very business friendly regulatory environment. If you're a tech startup or the like, it's a great place to move to run your business. For a while, they were offering monetary bonuses to do so (not sure if that's still the case). Low levels of corruption in the government as well.

In contrast, Brazil has one of the best natural resource setups in the world but is a complete clusterf#$k. So much corruption it's absurd.

 

[A10 fan]

It's not just that though, it's a very business friendly regulatory environment. If you're a tech startup or the like, it's a great place to move to run your business. For a while, they were offering monetary bonuses to do so (not sure if that's still the case). Low levels of corruption in the government as well.

In contrast, Brazil has one of the best natural resource setups in the world but is a complete clusterf#$k. So much corruption it's absurd.

Corruption is an absolute killer for a country. Argentina, which should be a First World country, is badly held back by it's corruption. On the other hand, in Africa, which is burdened by corrupt governments, little Botswana has controlled corruption, which along with stable government, has allowed it to greatly outperform the other Sub-Saharan African countries. If Nigeria was as well run as Botswana, it would become a fairly prosperous country.

 

[August_West]

Corruption is an absolute killer for a country. Argentina, which should be a First World country, is badly held back by it's corruption. On the other hand, in Africa, which is burdened by corrupt governments, little Botswana has controlled corruption, which along with stable government, has allowed it to greatly outperform the other Sub-Saharan African countries. If Nigeria was as well run as Botswana, it would become a fairly prosperous country.

So other words the US is screwed now.

 

[David 76]

Well put. Some people just struggle with feeling depressed and just can't shake it. Many who struggle with substance abuse try to do anything so that they don't feel this horrible feeling that they just can't seem to shake. For some their depression doesn't seem to align with their life's circumstances. I have a friend who seems to have everything a guy would want, but he just struggles all the time with this.

I'm actually going through a really difficult time right now, I don't want to get into it, but it is a very real situation I'm in, and I'm often struggling where there just isn't an immediate option that will make me happy and take away some of the deep dark feelings that I'm wrestling with at the moment. I've never had a problem with substance abuse or drinking, but I completely understand now why some people go down that route, and even suicide, because they'll do anything that will take away the deep feelings of desperation.

Now I happen to be a person who has strong faith in God who believes that He works all things out for his glory and our good even though I don't always feel that way or understand why things happen the way they do. Frankly, I don't know how people get through really difficult situations without faith, since so much in life is out of our control. You can have all the money in the world but it can't take away a deadly disease, bring back the death of a loved one, make someone love you, rid oneself of clinical depression, etc.

All the best with whatever you are going through.

 

[DogMania]

Thanks, Dave.

 

[DogMania]

I think you made some great points, but you really undo it here by calling them selfish. Is it selfish to die of cancer? Is it selfish to die of diabetes?

If depression is a real disease, then suicide is a result of the disease. It's not a rational decision-making process. It's not made by someone who knows what they're doing. It's part of the disease.

I wish people would stop calling suicide selfish. You aren't helping. Making depressed people feel worse is not the move. Making the survivors of a suicide feel like the person who died was selfish is definitely not helping them grieve.

Suicide is an act of desperation from someone seeking relief from pain, done under the duress of a disease. Like a body breaking down after chemotherapy.

It's not their fault.

You have a good point, IL. Sorry if I offended anyone with that. I have someone who is very close to me who had a family member commit suicide which impacted them very deeply. I believe they felt that way about that family member, but in hindsight I should not have written that. It was insensitive.

 

[temery]

If a terminally ill person opts to end his suffering rather than endure unimaginable pain, most people would understand.

Depression is every bit as bad for many. One day at a time.

I think you made some great points, but you really undo it here by calling them selfish. Is it selfish to die of cancer? Is it selfish to die of diabetes?

If depression is a real disease, then suicide is a result of the disease. It's not a rational decision-making process. It's not made by someone who knows what they're doing. It's part of the disease.

I wish people would stop calling suicide selfish. You aren't helping. Making depressed people feel worse is not the move. Making the survivors of a suicide feel like the person who died was selfish is definitely not helping them grieve.

Suicide is an act of desperation from someone seeking relief from pain, done under the duress of a disease. Like a body breaking down after chemotherapy.

It's not their fault.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

You have a good point, IL. Sorry if I offended anyone with that. I have someone who is very close to me who had a family member commit suicide which impacted them very deeply. I believe they felt that way about that family member, but in hindsight I should not have written that. It was insensitive.

It's okay. I didn't mean to attack anyone, either. It's just something I've struggled with for a long time. I work so hard on myself, on trying to be a better version of myself, and sometimes it feels so pointless and I get so frustrated and yeah.

But it's okay. I know people's hearts are in the right place. They're just very hurt, and it's one of those things that is almost impossible to understand if you haven't experienced it, like the compulsion of addiction.

 

[Hoophound]

I don't think it's a switch at all. It's something going on inside of people all the time. But we learn to hide it. We learn not to talk about it, because you're not supposed to talk about it. Because people tell you to cheer up, to be happy for yourself, to count your blessings.

So quietly, you suffer, and you go on, every day, because you're supposed to be happy, and you're supposed to feel satisfied, and all this success is supposed to mean something, but you just feel empty and worthless inside, and you know you don't deserve it.

Depression doesn't care if you're rich or handsome or powerful or popular or surrounded by people who worship you. Why would you think it does? Does diabetes care if you're rich? Does cancer care if you have a TV show or a bestselling book?

We still don't take it seriously as a disease. We say, "How can someone with such a life be depressed," because we still think, well, they should just *choose* to be happy. As if people wouldn't choose that option if they could.

All you can do is just try to manage it. And sometimes, you lose that battle. Sometimes, the depression just wears you down, and you're so tired of feeling so sh!tty, of feeling like nothing matters, of feeling like you're worthless and unworthy of love, that you'd rather just not be alive anymore.

But please don't view it as a reflection of who these people are. It's not. It's the disease.

Get help if you can. Go to therapy. Get treatment. It can help. It's helped me.

But it doesn't help everyone. And we need to look at it honestly as a disease.

Not really sure if you are arguing my point/question or not. Regardless, suicide rates are rising very quickly. Some have stated medications have improved. My question is, why is the rate going up? Are medications less valuable than thought? Are environmental factors causing it? No matter the plight of those that are suicidal, why is the rate of actual suicide going through the roof?

To summarize, I understand why people feel hopeless—-I truly do. I’m about as liberally thinking and empathetic a guy as you’ll find, but I’m concerned we are missing something here. Drugs are a likely culprit as are garbage food additives and fillers that are nothing more than industrial chemicals.

 

[JMick]

Not really sure if you are arguing my point/question or not. Regardless, suicide rates are rising very quickly. Some have stated medications have improved. My question is, why is the rate going up? Are medications less valuable than thought? Are environmental factors causing it? No matter the plight of those that are suicidal, why is the rate of actual suicide going through the roof?

To summarize, I understand why people feel hopeless—-I truly do. I’m about as liberally thinking and empathetic a guy as you’ll find, but I’m concerned we are missing something here. Drugs are a likely culprit as are garbage food additives and fillers that are nothing more than industrial chemicals.

There are so many different components and so many different variations of depression that it's impossible to find 'a' reason. I do think the rise in mass shootings and depression are caused by similar factors, though. If you haven't, I recommend reading Tribe or at least listening to Sebastian Junger. I can point you in that direction if you're curious.

 

[David 76]

Not really sure if you are arguing my point/question or not. Regardless, suicide rates are rising very quickly. Some have stated medications have improved. My question is, why is the rate going up? Are medications less valuable than thought? Are environmental factors causing it? No matter the plight of those that are suicidal, why is the rate of actual suicide going through the roof?

People are more stressed, but I would want to compare cultures. Is suicide increasing around the world? In "post industrialized nations? Is it higher in wealthy populations? Processed food nations?

I agree that meds are over-valued. Or that all the other things you can to address depression are under valued (therapy, coping skills, volunteering, etc.) Prescriptions may be great for you but they are not miracle pills.

As someone mentioned, reporting procedures need to be looked at too. Suicides don't always get reported as suicides to "help" the deceased's family. This used to happen much more, so there is a chance the increase is exaggerated.