OT Anthony Bourdain dead

[JMick]

People say that the person is being selfish with suicide, but really, the 'empathic' and logic parts of their brain simply aren't functioning.

is that true? I've always read that people suffering from depression generally have more empathy. they also tend to be intelligent.

 

[intlzncster]

There is some sort of epidemic forming with suicide. Like a switch going off in some people out of the blue. It has always been that way in that seemingly “ok” people kill themselves, but suicide rates are way up and child suicide is becoming a big problem. Presecription drugs, food additives, something in the water? Just seems something unnatural may be happening.

"Suicide rates increased by 25% across the United States over nearly two decades ending in 2016, according to research published Thursday by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Twenty-five states experienced a rise in suicides by more than 30%, the government report finds."

Suicide rate: US saw 25% increase since 1999, CDC says - CNN

Environmental, societal, economic, mental, etc., who knows? Whatever the reason, unfortunately, loved ones left behind suffer the most.

There's a lot of things that go into it, including:

• Decline of the nuclear family unit; increase in single parent families.
• Economic (real wages stagnant) issues and declining middle class
• America's 'pick yourself up by your bootstraps mentality' which is becoming harder to do in a world where competition is global, and where inflation has made the cost of basic things unaffordable for most.
• Increasing isolation in society what with the internet and lack of community events. You can live by yourself, never leaving the house these days. Make your money, have your food delivered, all from your couch etc...
• Social media. Big one. Everyone is compared too each other all the time. And everybody puts their sham 'best life' online. Inherently coming up short. Bullying etc.
• Too much information with overflowing media and ubiquitous communication. Nobody can 'leave' their jobs anymore. Always connected. Can't turn off.
• The more connected we are, the more we get disconnected from the world.
• There's more pressure and stress today than there's been in a long,long time in American society. Work too much.
• Increasingly sedentary lifestyles
• Nutrition deficiencies

etc

 

[Deepster]

Bourdain was an empathetic and kind individual by all reports. How can you possibly predict that?

You're an idiot. And have been.

He was noted as having a dark sense of humor. Apology accepted.

 

[JMick]

There's a lot of things that go into it, including:

• Decline of the nuclear family unit; increase in single parent families.
• Economic (real wages stagnant) issues and declining middle class
• America's 'pick yourself up by your bootstraps mentality' which is becoming harder to do in a world where competition is global, and where inflation has made the cost of basic things unaffordable for most.
• Increasing isolation in society what with the internet and lack of community events. You can live by yourself, never leaving the house these days. Make your money, have your food delivered, all from your couch etc...
• Social media. Big one. Everyone is compared too each other all the time. And everybody puts their sham 'best life' online. Inherently coming up short. Bullying etc.
• Too much information with overflowing media and ubiquitous communication. Nobody can 'leave' their jobs anymore. Always connected. Can't turn off.
• The more connected we are, the more we get disconnected from the world.
• There's more pressure and stress today than there's been in a long,long time in American society. Work too much.
• Increasingly sedentary lifestyles
• Nutrition deficiencies

etc

tl;dr Capitalism

 

[intlzncster]

is that true? I've always read that people suffering from depression generally have more empathy. they also tend to be intelligent.

To a degree, but when you get to a certain point, your brain is functioning on a very limited level. Some think it's the opposite. Certainly perspective is warped. Here's a study:

EPA-0168 – Can depression affect empathy? - ScienceDirect

 

[NEforceUConn]

Im platinum, phanner.

Sorry if my first reply went arie. If you are a heroine addict that's what you are. Yes you can mix but once it's the you are addicted to that's what it is. Sure many brits were adicts that were living a life. But when you quit you quite drugs

It's hard but once you quit you are done or you fallback and start again

 

[Letsgohuskies11]

All grew up in Northwest Connecticut and all still lived there except for one of them, they were all within a few classes of each other. They weren't my best friends or anything but they were all people I considered friends and grew up with and or spent a lot of time with at one point in my life. For a small population it seemed like people all of a sudden started dropping like flies when they reached their late 30's.

Do you think it was the isolation? Did they have partners at all?

 

[superjohn]

Do you think it was the isolation? Did they have partners at all?

One was seprated from his wife and all accounts are he spiraled after that, one was about to marry another guy I know. From just looking on the outside friends seemed surprised by what happened to all of them.

 

[David 76]

Wow! Sorry about Anthony. But there have been some very interesting theories on mental health put forward here.
Depression is painful. So painful that empathic people can lose their empathy because they can't see beyond their misery. Worse yet, they don't see it getting better. Ever. Imagine what it would take for you to leave your child with that trauma. Almost impossible to relate to.

I'm not a shrink (I am a licensed therapist) so I don't medicate. But I've never seen a shrink in private practice or a small group practice get a kickback beyond a free lunch.

 

[80shusky]

RIP. I loved his show in part because I love food. But, one of the great things it showed is that most people all over the world are exactly the same, even if they are completely different.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

There's a lot of things that go into it, including: multiple bullet points
etc

Thanks for sharing these bullet points and your prior post; pointing to some of the idle ponderings in my post above.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

“Maybe that’s enlightenment enough: to know that there is no final resting place of the mind; no moment of smug clarity. Perhaps wisdom...is realizing how small I am, and unwise, and how far I have yet to go".
- Anthony Bourdain

“If I'm an advocate for anything, it's to move. As far as you can, as much as you can. Across the ocean, or simply across the river. The extent to which you can walk in someone else's shoes or at least eat their food, it's a plus for everybody. Open your mind, get up off the couch, move.”
- Anthony Bourdain

“They're professionals at this in Russia, so no matter how many Jell-O shots or Jager shooters you might have downed at college mixers, no matter how good a drinker you might think you are, don't forget that the Russians - any Russian - can drink you under the table.”
― Anthony Bourdain, A Cook's Tour: Global Adventures in Extreme Cuisines

“Good food is very often, even most often, simple food.”
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential: Adventures in the Culinary Underbelly

More Bourdain quotes

 

[jdb50]

Loved his show with the trip to The Cape where he got his start and the look back at his addiction as well as the trip to Vietnam being memorable. Bourdain was such a great storyteller. It is so sad that his story has ended. The struggle of life can be overwhelming and he could not fight any longer.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

The ironic thing is Bourdain would have loved my post.

What if Bourdain would have replied to yours with, "You should have gone with your gut"? Still funny?

@Paesano 's post allowed me to see him in a new, more human, and better light. I appreciate that he had the courage to share authentically in the wake of something that moved him.

Yours was a well-delivered joke that could nearly be said to have written itself, and it required enough courage in your offering it that you had the good grace to add, "Too soon?"

In this case, I prefer the nourishment to the pop of flavor,but I don't claim to be right.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

tl;dr Capitalism

Having vanquished Soviet communism, it set its sights on American representative democracy...

 

[intlzncster]

tl;dr Capitalism

Too simple. jmo though.

 

[huskymedic]

Anthony Bourdain's 23 Essential Quotes on Food, Traveling, and Life

Among them:

1. "To me, life without veal stock, pork fat, sausage, organ meat, demi-glace, or even stinky cheese is a life not worth living."

5. "Skills can be taught. Character you either have or you don't have."

21. "I'm a big believer in winging it. I'm a big believer that you're never going to find perfect city travel experience or the perfect meal without a constant willingness to experience a bad one. Letting the happy accident happen is what a lot of vacation itineraries miss, I think, and I'm always trying to push people to allow those things to happen rather than stick to some rigid itinerary."

 

[intlzncster]

And I will add that our society evolves and not always in a direction consistent with achieving inner-peace. I think America has long been between a rock and a hard place. We look at the lifestyle that those who live on the Mediterranean live and we want that for ourselves. Who wouldn't want a low stress, laid back, lifestyle??? But their economies struggle because they don't, in general, "work hard enough". Then we look toward Asia and see threats to our own economy because, relative to them, we don't "work hard enough". Hard work and enjoying the fruits of our labor is in the DNA of Americans so we are self-programmed to want to compete with the Asians. We don't want to be "out-worked" by anyone. In a way, our society itself is bi-polar. It is easy to always be doubting yourself and your choices when you want two opposing things at the same time. You constantly feel torn. Now, consider that over the last 20-30 years, the percentage of the American population that is Asian-American has been growing rapidly. Initially, they came here as international students. Some undergrad, some grad. Many of them brought with them that fierce competitiveness of their culture. Why their culture is that way is another question for another day but I believe much of it has been driven by decades of scarcity. Next, consider that most of these immigrants were the very top of their country in terms of socio-economics and intellect. I am talking the top fraction of a percent. Maybe hundredths of a percent. So, in terms of profession and education, they end up mingling with the best of the best of our country. Again, these are the people that think, A LOT. They fear not being competitive so they raise their efforts. They sacrifice more of the little things to better compete for the big things. But those little things provide the variety that is the spice of life. Has anyone looked at the insanity that is the spelling bee lately? Think what you want but two of the recent winners actually went to grammar school with my kids. I can tell you that these kids sacrifice A LOT of their childhood to bring status and recognition to their families. Kids that age don't naturally get geeked up about spelling, no matter how nerdy they are. This is coming from their hyper-competitive parents. Then the mentality leaks into high school. Have you seen the courses some of these high schools offer now?!?!?! There are kids that have taken Vector Calculus, Linear Algebra and Differential Equations by the end of their junior year. This push for more and more and more comes from that hyper-competitive mentality. If one kid takes Calc 2 then I want my kid to take Vector Calculus so he has a better chance to get into Harvard. Then it becomes Linear Algebra. Then Differential Equations. More and more and more. But at what cost? These kids barely sleep and barely have down time for those little things. And it is no less insane with extracurriculars and community service. Kids are pushed to play more and more sports. They are pushed to be better and better by playing and/or going to camps in the summer. And community service? Now it has to be hundreds of hours and often away from home in third world countries because the key is to be "distinguished" in some way. And if it isn't community service, these kids are pushed to do "research" over the summer and often away from home. It is common now for kids to skip lunch to take an extra AP class so they can have a higher class rank. Could we do any more to raise exhausted and stressed out kids?!?!? Is it really any surprise that the number of kids in therapy at top colleges is rising rapidly? How could it not! Cornell had to put nets under their foot bridges because kids jumping became an issue. I know of at least two kids there that were told they were a disappointment because they only got into Cornell. Think about all of this for a second.

So we have a push to want more because we don't want to be seen as lazy or less. On top of that we are losing our spiritual compass and that is leading to attachment and living in anything but the present. Simpler times were called that for a reason. The less simple life becomes, the more people that get pushed to the breaking point.

Interestingly enough, some of the least working hour countries have strong economies (Germany/Norway), and countries like Greece and Mexico are among the longest hours worked. At odds with peoples' perception of Greece.

 

[intlzncster]

It can also be difficult to find a quality psychiatrist who accepts insurance.

And nowadays, they rarely offer counseling anyway. It's a 10-15 minute visit, make sure your meds are working and then on to the next person, assembly line style. Might not even meet with an MD. Nurse Practicioners are in this roll now too.

 

[Mokum]

As with anything else, I think this is a complex issue with many facets. First, I wouldn't discount the void left behind by spirituality. Most people are not very spiritual any more, even if they believe in a higher power. I had a mentor for years who passed away from pancreatic cancer. He was brilliant but tortured. Common story, no? He finally found peace when he began to study all of the world's religions. He chose to call them wisdom traditions. He was raised Jewish but studied everything. He began to see the common threads or the true nuggets of wisdom. Those are what got him through and to the other side. Those are what brought him peace. He was not a scientist but I am and when he began to share those nuggets with me, I could see the possibilities of how they also could be consistent with science. The problem is, when you are no longer immersed in that environment or no longer have people you regularly talk to about these things, they can fade into the background of your mind. Then you start living in the past or the future again. You lose self awareness and lose focus on the present. And when you live in the past or the future you are so much more likely to suffer. It is unlikely that any of us are bio-chemically perfect and/or that we have been fortunate enough to have not had a psychologically traumatic event in our lives. Those things often lead to attachment of some form. And then you either fear losing that which you are attached to or become depressed over something you already lost. It becomes brutal when those attachments are people. Loss can take on many forms with people. It can be the worst form in terms of death or can simply be separation. Now, if you are brilliant, you also probably think, A LOT. If those thoughts are in the past or the future, you torture yourself, A LOT. Then you become mentally exhausted. Eventually, you reach a breaking point and death seems like the best path to peace. That is all people really want, deep down. Peace.

There also seems to be a connection with anti-depressants. It seems they often make matters worse. It depends on the person. We have a long way to go here, as several have mentioned.

And I will add that our society evolves and not always in a direction consistent with achieving inner-peace. I think America has long been between a rock and a hard place. We look at the lifestyle that those who live on the Mediterranean live and we want that for ourselves. Who wouldn't want a low stress, laid back, lifestyle??? But their economies struggle because they don't, in general, "work hard enough". Then we look toward Asia and see threats to our own economy because, relative to them, we don't "work hard enough". Hard work and enjoying the fruits of our labor is in the DNA of Americans so we are self-programmed to want to compete with the Asians. We don't want to be "out-worked" by anyone. In a way, our society itself is bi-polar. It is easy to always be doubting yourself and your choices when you want two opposing things at the same time. You constantly feel torn. Now, consider that over the last 20-30 years, the percentage of the American population that is Asian-American has been growing rapidly. Initially, they came here as international students. Some undergrad, some grad. Many of them brought with them that fierce competitiveness of their culture. Why their culture is that way is another question for another day but I believe much of it has been driven by decades of scarcity. Next, consider that most of these immigrants were the very top of their country in terms of socio-economics and intellect. I am talking the top fraction of a percent. Maybe hundredths of a percent. So, in terms of profession and education, they end up mingling with the best of the best of our country. Again, these are the people that think, A LOT. They fear not being competitive so they raise their efforts. They sacrifice more of the little things to better compete for the big things. But those little things provide the variety that is the spice of life. Has anyone looked at the insanity that is the spelling bee lately? Think what you want but two of the recent winners actually went to grammar school with my kids. I can tell you that these kids sacrifice A LOT of their childhood to bring status and recognition to their families. Kids that age don't naturally get geeked up about spelling, no matter how nerdy they are. This is coming from their hyper-competitive parents. Then the mentality leaks into high school. Have you seen the courses some of these high schools offer now?!?!?! There are kids that have taken Vector Calculus, Linear Algebra and Differential Equations by the end of their junior year. This push for more and more and more comes from that hyper-competitive mentality. If one kid takes Calc 2 then I want my kid to take Vector Calculus so he has a better chance to get into Harvard. Then it becomes Linear Algebra. Then Differential Equations. More and more and more. But at what cost? These kids barely sleep and barely have down time for those little things. And it is no less insane with extracurriculars and community service. Kids are pushed to play more and more sports. They are pushed to be better and better by playing and/or going to camps in the summer. And community service? Now it has to be hundreds of hours and often away from home in third world countries because the key is to be "distinguished" in some way. And if it isn't community service, these kids are pushed to do "research" over the summer and often away from home. It is common now for kids to skip lunch to take an extra AP class so they can have a higher class rank. Could we do any more to raise exhausted and stressed out kids?!?!? Is it really any surprise that the number of kids in therapy at top colleges is rising rapidly? How could it not! Cornell had to put nets under their foot bridges because kids jumping became an issue. I know of at least two kids there that were told they were a disappointment because they only got into Cornell. Think about all of this for a second.

So we have a push to want more because we don't want to be seen as lazy or less. On top of that we are losing our spiritual compass and that is leading to attachment and living in anything but the present. Simpler times were called that for a reason. The less simple life becomes, the more people that get pushed to the breaking point.

You hit the nail on the head. Spirituality is missing. Materialism is king.

 

[Mokum]

Interestingly enough, some of the least working hour countries have strong economies (Germany/Norway), and countries like Greece and Mexico are among the longest hours worked. At odds with peoples' perception of Greece.

Corruption is why their economies struggle. Not lack of work ethic.

 

[shizzle787]

Interestingly enough, some of the least working hour countries have strong economies (Germany/Norway), and countries like Greece and Mexico are among the longest hours worked. At odds with peoples' perception of Greece.

Greeks retire at like 50.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Greeks retire at like 50.

Sure, if facts supported such an outdated albeit inaccurate proclamation. Ironically, Greece's current retirement age (67 now; 67+ graduated increase until 2021) is higher than Germany's retirement ages: general (now 65 & 7 months) and public officials (63). Aside from Greece raising its' traditional non-sustainable early retirement ages, Athens has attacked many traditional workarounds to access public retirement benefits earlier than in many EU nations. As Mokum suggests, continued sources of other corruption are Greece's biggest ongoing obstacle; not mistaken perceptions of factual retirement age today.

 

[8893]

Helpful piece from today's NYT for those who have a loved one dealing with depression:

What to Do When a Loved One Is Severely Depressed

 

[Adios]

Sure, if facts supported such an outdated albeit inaccurate proclamation. Ironically, Greece's current retirement age (67 now; 67+ graduated increase until 2021) is higher than Germany's retirement ages: general (now 65 & 7 months) and public officials (63). Aside from Greece raising its' traditional non-sustainable early retirement ages, Athens has attacked many traditional workarounds to access public retirement benefits earlier than in many EU nations. As Mokum suggests, continued sources of other corruption are Greece's biggest ongoing obstacle; not mistaken perceptions of factual retirement age today.

You just reminded me of Michael Jordan's reply to being asked at his camp about LaVar Ball.