NY Times article on CR effect on non-revenue sports

[Fishy]

The PAC 12 and the Big 12 never claimed to be academically superior, but the ACC did state that academics made a difference during the BC/Miami addition. This is where this logic is faulty. No conference other than the B1G and the ACC claimed academic integrity. The B1G has kept it's word. The ACC has not.

"A prominent official from an ACC school told me Louisville and UConn both have something to offer but stressed academics will matter to presidents. This favors UConn..."

Yeah, about that...

 

[btstimpy]

I realize that you spend quite a bit of time here trying to cram Louisville's balls into your mouth, but the reality is that they are a purely crappy academic school.

It's a commuter school in Kentucky.

No argument. Ohio State is a crapyy commuter school in Columbus, Ohio, and Maryland is a crappy commuter school in DC. Let's set the base.

 

[CAHUSKY]

No argument. Ohio State is a crapyy commuter school in Columbus, Ohio, and Maryland is a crappy commuter school in DC. Let's set the base.

47% of students live on campus at Maryland while only 42% live on campus at UVA. Wouldn't that make UVA more of a commuter school that MD?

 

[btstimpy]

47% of students live on campus at Maryland while only 42% live on campus at UVA. Wouldn't that make UVA more of a commuter school that MD?

If you want to make UVA a Charlottesville Commuter school, go ahead. We'll take on Maryland academically in any category you would like to discuss. Maryland has some schools like Pharmacy and perhape Vetinary that UVA doesn't, but head to head go for it.

BTW. I have been to New Haven looking for Yale. I had a business trip in Norwalk and drove over there to see Yale. Unfortunately it was at night. I saw the Yale University Hospital from the highway. I got off the highway to go to Yale, but I didn't feel comfortable with the neighborhoods I was driving through. I'd like to go back in the daytime. I'd also like to go to Storrs. I've seen the UConn football stadium in Hartford on the Pratt-Whitney property.

 

[CAHUSKY]

If you want to make UVA a Charlottesville Commuter school, go ahead. We'll take on Maryland academically in any category you would like to discuss. Maryland has some schools like Pharmacy and perhape Vetinary that UVA doesn't, but head to head go for it.

BTW. I have been to New Haven looking for Yale. I had a business trip in Norwalk and drove over there to see Yale. Unfortunately it was at night. I saw the Yale University Hospital from the highway. I got off the highway to go to Yale, but I didn't feel comfortable with the neighborhoods I was driving through. I'd like to go back in the daytime. I'd also like to go to Storrs. I've seen the UConn football stadium in Hartford on the Pratt-Whitney property.

Im not trying to do anything. I was just asking you a question. Seems like more students live on campus at MD than UVA.

 

[btstimpy]

Im not trying to do anything. I was just asking you a question. Seems like more students live on campus at MD than UVA.

All First Year Students at UVA live on Campus. or The Grounds as we call it. It's required. After the first year, UVA provides very little housing. It's a lottery to get what is available. UVA encourages students to move off Grounds after year 1. There are tons of apartment complexes all around to live that rent to no one but students. It's sort of a racket in Charlottesville.

 

[uconnfan68]

If that were the pattern the ACC were following continuously, I would agree wholeheartedly with you. But, it isn't.

Texas is a Public Ivy, and, it shares it league with WVU. The four California schools in the Pac-12 are all elite academic institutions, and, they share a league with the Oregon schools, who aren't elite. Not even close.

Nebraska certainly is no academic bellwether of the plains, but, the B1G has caught no grief for adding them.

Utah and Colorado are at best average institutions, but, the Pac was not ridiculed for adding them, either.

But, the ACC is catching hell for adding Louisville, rather than UConn?

This all goes back to BC's comments while they stabbed the BE in the back. They were going for the "academics". Oh the irony!

 

[specialisthusky]

The ACC has 8 of its 15 members ranked in the Top 50 Academically by USN&WR. The other 7 are ranked past 50, and once past 50, they all run together. Elite students aren't going to apply to any place ranked past 50 unless that school has a particular major program that is ranked really high that the student wants. No other conference has 8 in the top 50.

Everyone wants to pick on Louisvlle. They are in that bunch that runs together past 50 IMO. But they do have a quality Athletic Department that fits the ACC. Yes the ACC deviated outside its normal criteria to add Louisville, but Louisville will contribute to the League just fine.

If you use #50 as your "good or bad" standard, I am setting #160 as the "so God awful it damages the academic reputation of an entire conference" standard.

 

[HawkHusky]

No argument. Ohio State is a crapyy commuter school in Columbus, Ohio, and Maryland is a crappy commuter school in DC. Let's set the base.

The point is that Louisville is more on par with a community college with its academics and acceptance rate. Community colleges are commuter schools.

 

[TRest]

The point is that Louisville is more on par with a community college with its academics and acceptance rate. Community colleges are commuter schools.

He seems to be rather thick regarding this issue. All schools rated lower than 50 in the USNWR may as well be identical? I'm pretty certain there is some movement in the rankings from year-to-year, what happens to schools that fall out of the top 50? Syracuse, just as an example, is no better than Louisville? And it's also widely known that many schools game the system to inflate their rating (BC's phantom acceptance/enrollment rate).

 

[UConn9604]

I realize that you spend quite a bit of time here trying to cram Louisville's balls into your mouth, but the reality is that they are a purely crappy academic school.

It's a commuter school in Kentucky.

It seems that this Board has become the hub for conference realignment chatter nationwide. (Not that I would know, since I don't visit any other schools' boards -- looking at you, Coach Flood.) Do we get any additional ad revenue from all of this inter-ACC and ACC vs. Big Ten squabbling?

The vast majority of our visitors, like the Southern UNC guy and the UVa guy, and even Nicky from Newark, plus a few others that I'm probably leaving out, generally make positive contributions to the board. It's great to have them.

That said, I just find it morbidly hilarious that I'm learning facts and statistics like the on-campus housing rates and lower-division undergraduate curriculums of non-UConn schools on this board, when all I really want to read about, and all I really, really want for Christmas (this Christmas, and every other Christmas for the rest of my life) is a first-class ticket out of the AAC.

 

[btstimpy]

This all goes back to BC's comments while they stabbed the BE in the back. They were going for the "academics". Oh the irony!

They did get an academic upgrade. The Big East had 2 top 30 academic institutions, Georgetown and Notre Dame. The ACC had 4 at the time and now 5 with Notre Dame. Boston College liked that. Good for BC. The ACC has 7 in the top 40. They didn't join the ACC to get close to NC State. The ACC is not the Ivy League with every school in the top 30, but as far as academics go, it is second best of any athletic conference. Florida State's academic standing has improves since being in the ACC. So has Virginia Tech's. Perhaps Louisville will too. NC State has gone backwards for whatever reason. I'm not sure what the problem is there. But again outside the top 50 it's splitting hairs. Elite students aim higher. If a kid can apply and go to Princeton which aids the financial burden through their endowment, whould that kid say no and go to another school ranked 52? or ranked 65? or 80? NO. That kid might fall back to a school ranked 28, but not past 50.

 

[Sea Goat]

To our friends from UNC and UVA - there no making an academic "silk purse" out of the "sow's ear" that is Louisville - period - end of story.

Your top academic institutions are some of the best in the country, but adding Louisville simply diminishes your shine. UNC and UVA are clearly "public ivies" and have been for some time. That what UConn strives to be and is getting there fast. (BTW, UConn has now surpassed your other recent add-ons of Pitt and egregiously over-priced Syracuse in this regard.) You can compare the ACC top to bottom with the B1G all you want, but the fact is that the B1G still has the AAU requirement and the ACC has shown it has zero academic requirements for membership. While not there (AAU) yet, UConn is getting there. Further on many metrics it well ahead of existing members. The ACC, of course, isn't burdened with such considerations, so it could take a school like Louisville. That is why my fervent hope is that UConn gets AAU status and nod from the B1G.

 

[btstimpy]

He seems to be rather thick regarding this issue. All schools rated lower than 50 in the USNWR may as well be identical? I'm pretty certain there is some movement in the rankings from year-to-year, what happens to schools that fall out of the top 50? Syracuse, just as an example, is no better than Louisville? And it's also widely known that many schools game the system to inflate their rating (BC's phantom acceptance/enrollment rate).

Sagarin ranks college basketball teams every week. There are over 300 of them, and yes there is movement in these rankings past 50 every week. The teams ranked past 50 in the Sagarin rankings don't get a lot of attention as being quality basketball. The basketball snobs really only care about the top 25. It is not any different with the academic snobs. Most of those only care about the top 25, and they certainly stop looking past 50.

I had a guy on one of the Penn State boards from Purdue bashing Louisville a couple of months ago. Purdue. That's a mediocre school not even ranked in the top 65, and here he was acting like an academic snob. It's a joke. I was at the University of Arizona last year, and they have a big sign on the side of the main building reading USNWR ranks UA one of America's Top Universities. They aren't even in the top 100. Talk about marketing deception. When people from mediocre academic institutions start bashing others over academics, it's a joke.

 

[Sea Goat]

They did get an academic upgrade. The Big East had 2 top 30 academic institutions, Georgetown and Notre Dame. The ACC had 4 at the time and now 5 with Notre Dame. Boston College liked that. Good for BC. The ACC has 7 in the top 40. They didn't join the ACC to get close to NC State. The ACC is not the Ivy League with every school in the top 30, but as far as academics go, it is second best of any athletic conference. Florida State's academic standing has improves since being in the ACC. So has Virginia Tech's. Perhaps Louisville will too. NC State has gone backwards for whatever reason. I'm not sure what the problem is there. But again outside the top 50 it's splitting hairs. Elite students aim higher. If a kid can apply and go to Princeton which aids the financial burden through their endowment, whould that kid say no and go to another school ranked 52? or ranked 65? or 80? NO. That kid might fall back to a school ranked 28, but not past 50.

Stimpmeister - don't fall prey to the thought that ND is a member of the ACC. It simply isn't - it is a part time, at their convenience, member. All of the ACC proponents talk of the importance of football, football, football! (Louisville?) Well ND is still playing football on their terms making their money.

 

[specialisthusky]

It must be pretty embarassing for UVA to be associated as a "Public Ivy" with schools with academic rankings outside of the top 50 such as:

Miami U
UT-Austin
U of Vermont
Rutgers
UConn
SUNY -Bing
U of Delaware
U of Maryland
U of Georgia
U of Arizona
UC Santa Cruz
U of Colorado
U of Washington
Indiana U
Michigan State
Ohio State
U of Iowa
U of Minnesota


SO your not only basing your argument on an arbitrary number set by a a very nonscientific poll, but books have literally been published suggesting you are wrong.

 

[btstimpy]

To our friends from UNC and UVA - there no making an academic "silk purse" out of the "sow's ear" that is Louisville - period - end of story.

Your top academic institutions are some of the best in the country, but adding Louisville simply diminishes your shine. UNC and UVA are clearly "public ivies" and have been for some time. That what UConn strives to be and is getting there fast. (BTW, UConn has now surpassed your other recent add-ons of Pitt and egregiously over-priced Syracuse in this regard.) You can compare the ACC top to bottom with the B1G all you want, but the fact is that the B1G still has the AAU requirement and the ACC has shown it has zero academic requirements for membership. While not there (AAU) yet, UConn is getting there. Further on many metrics it well ahead of existing members. The ACC, of course, isn't burdened with such considerations, so it could take a school like Louisville. That is why my fervent hope is that UConn gets AAU status and nod from the B1G.

AAU is not about academics. It's about Graduate Research. If UConn wants to go be in the Big Ten in the Midwest, go be in the Big Ten in the Midwest. The Big Ten says that they only want AAU schools. But they invited Nebraska, and then Big Ten schools led the charge to kick Nebraska out of the AAU. The Big Ten also invited Notre Dame, who would be ranked second academically in the Big Ten and is not AAU. They call AAU a requirement when it is convenient to call it a requirement. But you are correct in that all but 1 Big Ten school is AAU.

 

[btstimpy]

Stimpmeister - don't fall prey to the thought that ND is a member of the ACC. It simply isn't - it is a part time, at their convenience, member. All of the ACC proponents talk of the importance of football, football, football! (Louisville?) Well ND is still playing football on their terms making their money.

Notre Dame just won the NCAA men's soccer championship, and I swear I saw ACC on their uniforms. I also see them on our schedule in everything including football. That's good enough for me.

 

[Sea Goat]

AAU is not about academics. It's about Graduate Research. If UConn wants to go be in the Big Ten in the Midwest, go be in the Big Ten in the Midwest. The Big Ten says that they only want AAU schools. But they invited Nebraska, and then Big Ten schools led the charge to kick Nebraska out of the AAU. The Big Ten also invited Notre Dame, who would be ranked second academically in the Big Ten and is not AAU. They call AAU a requirement when it is convenient to call it a requirement. But you are correct in that all but 1 Big Ten school is AAU.

Stimpmeister - let's agree to disagree - you believe the ACC has maintained its academic integrity with the Louisville add and I believe you it sold a piece of its soul. Regardless, you must admit that the ACC has zero, with a "Z", academic requirements for new members.

Free advice - don't die on the beach defending the Louisville addition on any terms other than its dubious football pedigree.

 

[btstimpy]

It must be pretty embarassing for UVA to be associated as a "Public Ivy" with schools with academic rankings outside of the top 50 such as:

Miami U
UT-Austin
U of Vermont
Rutgers
UConn
SUNY -Bing
U of Delaware
U of Maryland
U of Georgia
U of Arizona
UC Santa Cruz
U of Colorado
U of Washington
Indiana U
Michigan State
Ohio State
U of Iowa
U of Minnesota


SO your not only basing your argument on an arbitrary number set by a a very nonscientific poll, but books have literally been published suggesting you are wrong.

What is your point with this list? I had a book written in the 80s about the Public Ivys. I don't know what happened to it. UVA was in it. Are you saying that someone has expanded the public ivys to include this list? That would really water it down.

 

[Sea Goat]

Notre Dame just won the NCAA men's soccer championship, and I swear I saw ACC on their uniforms. I also see them on our schedule in everything including football. That's good enough for me.

It shouldn't be - the old stalwarts of he ACC didn't need ND to shore it up and ultimately ND does what's best for ND only - you'll see.

 

[specialisthusky]

What is your point with this list? I had a book written in the 80s about the Public Ivys. I don't know what happened to it. UVA was in it. Are you saying that someone has expanded the public ivys to include this list? That would really water it down.

In 2001 Green's Guide reevaluated the list on the criteria: public schools with academic quality comparable to an Ivy League institution.

The one's I have listed above are outstide of your cut off point which considers a school good or bad.

My point is: your not only basing your argument on an arbitrary number set by a a very nonscientific poll, but books have literally been published suggesting you are wrong.

 

[btstimpy]

Stimpmeister - let's agree to disagree - you believe the ACC has maintained its academic integrity with the Louisville add and I believe you it sold a piece of its soul. Regardless, you must admit that the ACC has zero, with a "Z", academic requirements for new members.

Free advice - don't die on the beach defending the Louisville addition on any terms other than its dubious football pedigree.

I didn't say I'm impressed with Louisville's academic pedigree. I said I'm not impressed with the academic pedigree of any school ranked below 50. Big Ten folks over on a Penn State Board were trumpeting that they got Maryland and the ACC got Louisville. I'm not impressed with Maryland academics either. They are both below 50. I've seen many a football recruit not be able to get past the UVA academic standard get picked right up by Maryland. Happens all the time. Low standards there.

 

[btstimpy]

In 2001 Green's Guide reevaluated the list on the criteria: public schools with academic quality comparable to an Ivy League institution.

The one's I have listed above are outstide of your cut off point which considers a school good or bad.

My point is: your not only basing your argument on an arbitrary number set by a a very nonscientific poll, but books have literally been published suggesting you are wrong.

If someone wrote a book trying to credit that list for offering Ivy League like educations, then somone was trying to widen the net enough to sell a lot of books. That's all.

This is the kind of list I like to see UVA associated with:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eague-college-leads-world-richest-alumni.html

I'm not impressed very much with that other list. But that's just me.

 

[HawkHusky]

I didn't say I'm impressed with Louisville's academic pedigree. I said I'm not impressed with the academic pedigree of any school ranked below 50. Big Ten folks over on a Penn State Board were trumpeting that they got Maryland and the ACC got Louisville. I'm not impressed with Maryland academics either. They are both below 50. I've seen many a football recruit not be able to get past the UVA academic standard get picked right up by Maryland. Happens all the time. Low standards there.

So there's no difference between being ranked 62nd (Maryland) and 161st (Louisville).

Because that makes perfect sense......

 

[btstimpy]

It shouldn't be - the old stalwarts of he ACC didn't need ND to shore it up and ultimately ND does what's best for ND only - you'll see.

I recognize that it is the universal opinion here that Notre Dame is bad news. We're going to try this arrangement with Notre Dame for a dozen years or so to see how it works out. If everyone hates it in a decade, we'll do something different. The article at the top of this thread talks about the travel being tough on Notre Dame's kids in the ACC. They might get tired of that after a while. Who knows?

 

[btstimpy]

So there's no difference between being ranked 62nd (Maryland) and 161st (Louisville).

Because that makes perfect sense......

UConn is highly competitive in basketball. Use the basketball analogy. If you're a top ten basketball team, and you look at another team ranked 62 or 161, there is a difference. But are you impressed with either?

 

[HawkHusky]

UConn is highly competitive in basketball. Use the basketball analogy. If you're a top ten basketball team, and you look at another team ranked 62 or 161, there is a difference. But are you impressed with either?

Apples to oranges..but I'll bite.

Since you chose the basketball analogy: If one team has an RPI or SOS of 62 then they will be much more likely to make the NCAA tournament than a team with an RPI or SOS of 161.

So yes I find an at-large tournament bid impressive.

 

[specialisthusky]

UConn is highly competitive in basketball. Use the basketball analogy. If you're a top ten basketball team, and you look at another team ranked 62 or 161, there is a difference. But are you impressed with either?

One makes the NCAA, the other is still 50 spots away from bring the last CBI invite.

 

[Sea Goat]

I didn't say I'm impressed with Louisville's academic pedigree. I said I'm not impressed with the academic pedigree of any school ranked below 50. Big Ten folks over on a Penn State Board were trumpeting that they got Maryland and the ACC got Louisville. I'm not impressed with Maryland academics either. They are both below 50. I've seen many a football recruit not be able to get past the UVA academic standard get picked right up by Maryland. Happens all the time. Low standards there.

Back on point, Stimpy - the ACC has zero, with a "Z", academic requirements for entry. Yes or no?

Further, I'm no Terp fan, but comparing UMD to Louisville really strains the limits of credulity. It's not close and doing so diminishes your credibility.
You know damn well that noses were firmly held in the administration offices in Charlottesville, Chapel Hill, Atlanta, Boston, Miami, Winston-Salem, Durham when the vote to add Louisville to the ACC was taken. If you don't admit that, then I've lost you.

Be real, Stimpmeister - the ACC has added school that admits 72% of its applicants and graduates only 50% in 6 years! It is less of an institution of higher learning than it is a crap shoot!