NY Times article on CR effect on non-revenue sports

[SubbaBub]

How did the UCONN board become a Purdue/Pitt/Virginia/Georgia Tech d!k measuring contest?

The minute the discussion turned to athletic programs with a pulse.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Louisville is a garbage university.

Louisville being in the ACC does nothing to negatively impact the academic reputations of UVA, UNC, GT, etc.

Louisville was chosen due to the timing of ACC expansion being at their zenith of football prowess where we were at the bottom of ours.

Had the decision been made in 2011 when UConn won the BE, there is no question we'd be in over them.

I think the above four facts are all valid, straight forward and reasonable.

Hopefully the next time expansion occurs, Diaco ( or whoever) has us back to consistently being a Top 40 program all while hoops stays elite.

 

[btstimpy]

As a Virginia grad, you are downplaying the quality of your school by following those ratings. There are some second rate schools in your conference that are very highly ranked in USNWR but they are nowhere near the quality of Virginia. USNEWS also has some AAU schools with billion dollar budgets and half a billion dollars in research budgets and great international reputations ranked in the low 130s.

It flies in the face of everything I know of rankings from solid sources. There are schools in the top 50 that have no business there. #62s BYU and Clemson are laughable that high.

You're trying to discredit the USN&WR rankings. That's fine, but almost every school I know puts it right on its website. My point is that it's a logarithmic scale and not linear, and that once past 50 the gap between 51 and 200 is small. It's much smaller than the gap between 1 through 10 or 11 through 40. No one not in the Top 50 is an academic heavyweight. And one poster even suggested the Top 25 only.

I said in one of the posts I made that there are 7 schools in the ACC past 50. I'm not impressed with any of them academically as a whole. They all each individually have some specific majors that score very high. Several of them have very good athletic departments that impress. AAU is nice, but most college athletes are not Graduate Research Assistants, and most college sports fans are more loyal to their Undergraduate Alma Mater than their Graduate Alma Mater. That is the case with me and most I know. Both of my Alma Maters are AAU. In UVA's case since 1904. I never would have known it if the Big Ten wasn't throwing that term around in the latest round of Conference Realignment. How big the research budgets were or how much professors published meant nothing to me. I wanted to get degrees from quality academic institutions that increased the opportunity of getting a decent job out of college. I think USN&WR is a good indicator of places to go to be able to do that. Is it perfect? No.

I actually like this ranking that was done last spring by the Daily Mail in the UK. It ranks Universities by how well they produce the highly successful. UVA finished 11th with 499 individuals. This is the type of list that impresses me. At least some people can take a UVA degree and make something of themselves. I'm not one of the 499, but bravo to who are. All of the names on this list are academic heavyweights. Louisville is not there. I don't think any on this list is past 50 on the USN&WR rankings. This list only goes up to 20.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eague-college-leads-world-richest-alumni.html

 

[btstimpy]

Thank you Bugsy, for partially slapping a little reality into this debate. I'd like to also throw in the fact that graduate school rankings matter more to someone like me & certainly a graduate degree weighs more than an undergraduate degree to most employers. In my field of urban-regional planning, you can't even enter most firms without a graduate degree. So now compare the BIG to the ACC. It's not even close, BIG schools are significantly ahead, overall, than ACC schools. The gap is huge. Some nice examples below: UVa vs the "subpar" schools of UofMN and UofWisky.

Maybe some of you, esp btstimpy, should pay attention to the other US News Rankings (Best Graduate Schools). When you compare UVa to the subpar UofMn (graduate school rankings), ouch! Huge difference in top 25 graduate programs, Minnesota is way ahead. So I'll let btstimpy do his own math and live with the fact that he opened up the "US News" can of worms. Btw, I went to UW-Madison for graduate school, and "on Wisconsin" has more top 25 graduate programs than Minnesota, considerably more.

Minnesota:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandr...minnesota-twin-cities-174066/overall-rankings

Virginia:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandr...-virginia-main-campus-234076/overall-rankings

Wisconsin:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandr...-of-wisconsin-madison-240444/overall-rankings

We're talking about Athletic Conferences and student athletes. There are some student athetes that are graduate students, but there aren't many. And most fans when going to two or more schools for undergrad, masters, or beyond maintain the most loyalty with their undergraduate alma mater when it comes to athletics. I'm sure that there are exceptions as with anything else. Taking this debate to Graduate Schools, Professional Schools, or Graduate Research is getting way out of scope for what we are debating which was Athletic Conferences and the role of academics in them and specifically Louisville was called subpar. I said that Louisville isn't alone. If the athletes aren't even graduate students, what difference doees it make how good the Otolaryngology Program is? None of the Medical Students will be running around the football field or basketball court during a Conference Game. When the ACC talks about Athletic and Academic excellence, it's talking about the student athletes.

 

[buggsy]

We're talking about Athletic Conferences and student athletes. There are some student athetes that are graduate students, but there aren't many. And most fans when going to two or more schools for undergrad, masters, or beyond maintain the most loyalty with their undergraduate alma mater when it comes to athletics. I'm sure that there are exceptions as with anything else. Taking this debate to Graduate Schools, Professional Schools, or Graduate Research is getting way out of scope for what we are debating which was Athletic Conferences and the role of academics in them and specifically Louisville was called subpar. I said that Louisville isn't alone. If the athletes aren't even graduate students, what difference doees it make how good the Otolaryngology Program is? None of the Medical Students will be running around the football field or basketball court during a Conference Game. When the ACC talks about Athletic and Academic excellence, it's talking about the student athletes.

No we're not talking about athletic conferences and student athletes. If we were, then the vast majority of athletes would NOT have gotten into the schools they did if not for the fact they played a sport. A student athlete only has to meet much lower minimum requirements compared the student body as a whole.

You made a blanket statement that there is no intellectual difference between students at all the schools that rank below #51.

Those were your words. You said all the schools start to run together once you get below #50.

Why can't you just admit you were wrong? You would actually look smarter just admitting you made a mistake, then trying to continue your asinine argument.

And as someone else said, when you look at a university as a whole, including both undergrad and grad, the ACC is far behind the Big Ten.

 

[Adios]

And as someone else said, when you look at a university as a whole, including both undergrad and grad, the ACC is far behind the Big Ten.

And you guys get to be the "Louisville-like" addition of the B1G! Your athletic department is a joke. It's clear "power" conferences are low on options.

Still hard to believe what Calhoun and Auriemma have done.

 

[NickyNewark]

And you guys get to be the "Louisville-like" addition of the B1G! Your athletic department is a joke. It's clear "power" conferences are low on options.

Still hard to believe what Calhoun and Auriemma have done.

L'ville like addition ? It was'nt an out of the blue add of RU to the B1G like L'ville to the ACC ? No one foresaw "Lville" jumping over UConn though? I did'nt see him comparing ADs? Pitt and SU saw it coming(RUs move) and took immediate action to "save face" when the "10" announcement of who they were looking at and academic's(thats what their talking)....no comparison!And now that they reaquired the med school RU should rise even higher yet !!btw Butch,I'd like to wish you a merry xmas as I read this earlier this evening when I could'nt sleep and really was'nt fully awake(sober)ha ha...I like your unique personality and hope you'll have read it intellectually not "like me" personally! Best of luck going into the New Year !!

 

[btstimpy]

No we're not talking about athletic conferences and student athletes. If we were, then the vast majority of athletes would NOT have gotten into the schools they did if not for the fact they played a sport. A student athlete only has to meet much lower minimum requirements compared the student body as a whole.

You made a blanket statement that there is no intellectual difference between students at all the schools that rank below #51.

Those were your words. You said all the schools start to run together once you get below #50.

Why can't you just admit you were wrong? You would actually look smarter just admitting you made a mistake, then trying to continue your asinine argument.

And as someone else said, when you look at a university as a whole, including both undergrad and grad, the ACC is far behind the Big Ten.

I'm not sure who said that there was no intellectual difference between students at all the schools that rank below #51. It wasn't me.

One thing I'm concerned about, and I'm not a Big Ten guy, is the Purdue fan I was debating on another board telling me that Purdue is expanding to fill up its Graduate Rolls with Chinese students. The industrial midwest has gone through a decade of outsourcing jobs to China. That is a travesty caused by the Unions and lack of adaptation to the global economy. Now, the Universities in the Midwest are planning to educate the Chinese students to take those jobs in China? This is a crime IMO. As an American I can only cry. That will only last for about a decade before the Chinese set up their own universities and educate the students at home.

 

[Adios]

I'm not sure who said that there was no intellectual difference between students at all the schools that rank below #51. It wasn't me.

One thing I'm concerned about, and I'm not a Big Ten guy, is the Purdue fan I was debating on another board telling me that Purdue is expanding to fill up its Graduate Rolls with Chinese students. The industrial midwest has gone through a decade of outsourcing jobs to China. That is a travesty caused by the Unions and lack of adaptation to the global economy. Now, the Universities in the Midwest are planning to educate the Chinese students to take those jobs in China? This is a crime IMO. As an American I can only cry. That will only last for about a decade before the Chinese set up their own universities and educate the students at home.

If you ask me, this country has a future in natural resources, education, research and tourism. Definitely won't be the same. The schools will survive, methinks. Quinnipiac University had a hockey player of Vietnamese ancestry in their historic run last season.

 

[NickyNewark]

I'm not sure who said that there was no intellectual difference between students at all the schools that rank below #51. It wasn't me.

One thing I'm concerned about, and I'm not a Big Ten guy, is the Purdue fan I was debating on another board telling me that Purdue is expanding to fill up its Graduate Rolls with Chinese students. The industrial midwest has gone through a decade of outsourcing jobs to China. That is a travesty caused by the Unions and lack of adaptation to the global economy. Now, the Universities in the Midwest are planning to educate the Chinese students to take those jobs in China? This is a crime IMO. As an American I can only cry. That will only last for about a decade before the Chinese set up their own universities and educate the students at home.

Touching post written critically yet sensitively. Please don't worry too much during the holiday period stimp and merry xmas to you too! I did'nt realize by you're harsh criticism of certain schools you were so caring?

 

[NickyNewark]

If you ask me, this country has a future in natural resources, education, research and tourism. Definitely won't be the same. The schools will survive, methinks. Quinnipiac University had a hockey player of Vietnamese ancestry in their historic run last season.

Up all night Butch?I like your vision of where were going. Do you see our military playing a part in the future economy?Or serious downsizing?

 

[upstater]

You're trying to discredit the USN&WR rankings. That's fine, but almost every school I know puts it right on its website. My point is that it's a logarithmic scale and not linear, and that once past 50 the gap between 51 and 200 is small. It's much smaller than the gap between 1 through 10 or 11 through 40. No one not in the Top 50 is an academic heavyweight. And one poster even suggested the Top 25 only.

I said in one of the posts I made that there are 7 schools in the ACC past 50. I'm not impressed with any of them academically as a whole. They all each individually have some specific majors that score very high. Several of them have very good athletic departments that impress. AAU is nice, but most college athletes are not Graduate Research Assistants, and most college sports fans are more loyal to their Undergraduate Alma Mater than their Graduate Alma Mater. That is the case with me and most I know. Both of my Alma Maters are AAU. In UVA's case since 1904. I never would have known it if the Big Ten wasn't throwing that term around in the latest round of Conference Realignment. How big the research budgets were or how much professors published meant nothing to me. I wanted to get degrees from quality academic institutions that increased the opportunity of getting a decent job out of college. I think USN&WR is a good indicator of places to go to be able to do that. Is it perfect? No.

I actually like this ranking that was done last spring by the Daily Mail in the UK. It ranks Universities by how well they produce the highly successful. UVA finished 11th with 499 individuals. This is the type of list that impresses me. At least some people can take a UVA degree and make something of themselves. I'm not one of the 499, but bravo to who are. All of the names on this list are academic heavyweights. Louisville is not there. I don't think any on this list is past 50 on the USN&WR rankings. This list only goes up to 20.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eague-college-leads-world-richest-alumni.html

I've done my best to explain to you that the scale is laughable. It puts great schools well behind totally inferior schools. It's based on a faulty assessment metric. a questionnaire filled out by Presidents. A few of those questionnaire. If you looked at Carnegie or NRC, it's totally different.

There are schools rated 130 that are better than some in the top 50. But go on, nothing is going to change your mind.

 

[gabect]

Are we done feeding the troll yet?

 

[buggsy]

I'm not sure who said that there was no intellectual difference between students at all the schools that rank below #51. It wasn't me.

I'll give you a clue who said it. It was YOU.

Your own words.

" The ACC has 8 of its 15 members ranked in the Top 50 Academically by USN&WR. The other 7 are ranked past 50, and once past 50, they all run together. Elite students aren't going to apply to any place ranked past 50 unless that school has a particular major program that is ranked really high that the student wants."

Once past 50 they are no longer elite according to you. it doesn't matter the school because an elite student (or students who are intellectually superior) isn't going to apply there....but I like how you give yourself an out here.

Stop being a fool.

 

[btstimpy]

There is no inconsistency here. I said "Unless there is a particular major program at one of the schools past 50 that the elite student wants." Then we've had 2 pages of posts questioning me and suggesting that some of the schools past 50 might be good at STEM majors, or might have good Graduate Programs, or Good Professional Schools. That is all consistent with what I originally said. There are smart students at all the schools even those ranked below the top 50 including Louisville because there are specialized programs at most schools that are well thought of. We've spent several pages of this thread going over that.

Absent any particular major that an elite high school student is interested in, most won't apply to schools past 50. I won't say no one will because there are always exceptions (close to home, a parent went there, a girlfriend or boyfriend is there, etc.). But most won't.