Non-Key Tweets

[billybud]

Clemson and FSU have been pushing revenue enhancement through expansion and contract renegotiation for several years. They are looking at every angle to keeping up while shackled by the long term contract.

They have legal beagles looking at the GOR...and have already decided that the $120 million Exit Fee would not be an obstacle...if The GOR can be defeated or negotiated..

As FSU's BOT Chair has said...

“We’re going to continue to talk about it. And we’re going to continue to push,” Collins said. “We have to push. We have to do everything we can to take care of Florida State University. Our primary concern is not the ACC. Our primary concern is Florida State.”

 

[ramses 2.0]

UNC is basketball oriented and they see that as their main sport...they are concerned, of course, but about the Tar Heels basketball collapse this season. They are not concerned about the SEC as their competition in football.

All FSU and Clemson have done is put the truth out there that we all know and discuss...for their programs as football brands, the ever widening revenue gulf is untenable and they called that spade for what it is.. Their allegiance is to their program, not to the conference...and that is as it should be.

FSU's primary rival is Florida...the Tallahassee city limits are 18 miles from the Georgia border with Alabama hugging the border along the panhandle.

Duke and UNC voted against FSU joining the conference because they might push football. It is what it is...FSU and Clemson are football brands...UNC and Duke are basketball brands.

I'm not disagreeing with FSU's point of view nor do I believe UNC is not concerned about long term finances but we have a different set of dynamics we have to account for. First we have a large Alumni base that care about non revenue sports especially women's & they contribute to football/basketball needs as long as those sports are given proper resources to be successful. So football is important from a revenue/brand building perspective, just doesn't have to compete for national titles

 

[billybud]

True, but at the moment you, as an FSU fan, sound like you (the school) went long on Blockbuster and now, that the investment tanked is saying "I want my money back".

Nope....more like a program that has fired a coach and has to continue paying him....sad money. FSU and Clemson have not been happy with the conference for many years. It has to do with the emphasis and investment in football.

FSU guys always saw Swofford, the ex UNC guy with a campus building named after him, as a basketball first guy who got surprised when the media payout paid based on football surpassed the old model where basketball was the lead.....FSU and Clemson invested in their football programs..

It is frustration built up over years...it was 2012...

Andy Haggard, Florida State University's Board of Trustee's Chairman, blasted the ACC's new television deal and said the board would consider a move to the Big 12 if it is in FSU's interest. The article specifically casts doubt on whether there has been any talk between FSU and the Big 12, but opens the door for conversations in the future.

Florida State is unhappy that the ACC's new TV contract gives third-tier media rights for football to ESPN/ABC, but allows schools to retain third-tier basketball rights. This favors basketball-centric schools like UNC and Duke at the expense of football-centric schools like Florida State (and Clemson).

Long story and boring to UConn folks...but it is a long running Days of Our Lives.

 

[The Yakk]

And I know that the FSU leadership are aware, rational folks and, with Clemson, are letting the conference know that something has to give.

What exactly is FSU's and Clemson's recourse if the rest of the conference tells them that nothing is going to give until 2036?

And the $120m cost is wishful thinking. It's more like $120 plus loss of broadcast rights.

 

[billybud]

I don't know about the "breakability" of the GOR....only that no team in the conference has studied the GOR like FSU...

It is an easy out if ESPN wants it to happen...if the ACC can continue to meet their contract obligations to ESPN without FSU and/or Clemson, no foul...that is in the GOR. FSU rights are assigned to the ACC as necessary to fullfil their ESPN contract obligation.

If ESPN arranges it so that ACC members do not lose money and the contract is amended (maybe for additions). It would be the $120 million Exit Fee...

 

[Chin Diesel]

The problem has been the shorter term contracts of the SEC and B1G...as the sports market bloomed and contracts were negotiated on current conditions....the ACC could not adjust because of the length of the contract.

The ACC got what they wanted. Stability as they watched the Big East, Big 12, AAC get raided.

Almost like thinking strategically about contracts and their length rather than tactically has its advantages.

 

[noeynox]

The problem has been the shorter term contracts of the SEC and B1G...as the sports market bloomed and contracts were negotiated on current conditions....the ACC could not adjust because of the length of the contract.

The ACC got what they wanted. Stability as they watched the Big East, Big 12, AAC get raided.

And Duke, UNC, Wake, Syracuse, BC, Virginia, and GT are like a Mad Magazine cover with Alfred E. Neuman's..."what, me worry ? " (Young guys can google it).

People can try to rationalize whatever they want. Neither a hypothesis nor hope is a fact. And I know that the FSU leadership are aware, rational folks and, with Clemson, are letting the conference know that something has to give.

I do hope that FSU's guys haven't fallen into the Bitcoin trap.

Bitcoin had lots of dollars chasing it because the owners of those dollars had convinced themselves that there is some reason why it should be worth more than it is. Despite no logical reason that Bitcoin should be worth more. The stories attempting to rationalize why did not make sense to me...a non crypto investor.

Yeah it's kind of nothing like that. The ACC chose to get money comparable to what the other Big Conferences were getting at the time. The fact those schools, including FSU and Clemson, chose to take that offer doesn't make it a bad per se. If their leadership didn't notice or didn't care those leagues were near the end of their contracts is no one's fault but their own. There is nothing to hypothesize. They signed for what they signed for as long as they did. They have zero leverage in this. Schools like UNC and UVA will be more attractive at the end of the ACC contract than FSU and Clemson.

 

[billybud]

I'm not disagreeing with FSU's point of view nor do I believe UNC is not concerned about long term finances but we have a different set of dynamics we have to account for. First we have a large Alumni base that care about non revenue sports especially women's & they contribute to football/basketball needs as long as those sports are given proper resources to be successful. So football is important from a revenue/brand building perspective, just doesn't have to compete for national titles

Yes...UNC Soccer has been phenomenal...My boy wanted to play for them back in the day but played for Clemson.

FSU also has a fanbase interest in women's sports.

FSU has, of late has come on in Women's Soccer..National Champs in 2014, 2018, 2021...
Softball is very successful..2018 NC,
Beach Volleyball, basketball, etc

But, no...millions won't see the matches...

 

[billybud]

In 2012...the chasms had not widened that much.

John Ourand..Sports Business Journal..2012...

John Ourand of the Sports Business Journal tweets that the ACC deal with ESPN will be worth $3.6 billion, according to sources.

In other words, about $17 million per school annually for tier 1, 2 and 3 rights.

That’s not quite as lucrative as deals in, say, the Big Ten or Pac-12, where schools will be banking somewhere in the $20 million range annually, but certainly not bad for a basketball conference.

 

[billybud]

And now the puzzler...

The ACC schools do not see the ESPN contract nor do they appove it....the ACC office is charged with developing, approving, and signing the ESPN contract.

Under an FOIA request, FSU legal has stated the school has never seen the ESPN contract.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Yes...UNC Soccer has been phenomenal...My boy wanted to play for them back in the day but played for Clemson.

FSU also has a fanbase interest in women's sports.

FSU has, of late has come on in Women's Soccer..National Champs in 2014, 2018, 2021...
Softball is very successful..2018 NC,
Beach Volleyball, basketball, etc

But, no...millions won't see the matches...

Burying the lead. Your kid played for Clemson? That is a good program.

 

[ramses 2.0]

Yes...UNC Soccer has been phenomenal...My boy wanted to play for them back in the day but played for Clemson.

FSU also has a fanbase interest in women's sports.

FSU has, of late has come on in Women's Soccer..National Champs in 2014, 2018, 2021...
Softball is very successful..2018 NC,
Beach Volleyball, basketball, etc

But, no...millions won't see the matches...

I'm talking about non rev sports being a part of the athletic department DNA. Many give to the Rams club primarily because of the opportunities scholarship athletes receive & the hope is they return that favor once they graduate by becoming life long donors. Finishing top 10 in the directors cup yearly is a stated goal of the department.

 

[noeynox]

And now the puzzler...

The ACC schools do not see the ESPN contract nor do they appove it....the ACC office is charged with developing, approving, and signing the ESPN contract.

Under an FOIA request, FSU legal has stated the school has never seen the ESPN contract.

What does the ACC's Grant of Rights agreement say? Here's a copy

Conference realignment is shaking college athletics once again. The key to ACC stability appears to be its grant of rights agreement. Read it here.

www.wralsportsfan.com

 

[jostar1]

And now the puzzler...

The ACC schools do not see the ESPN contract nor do they appove it....the ACC office is charged with developing, approving, and signing the ESPN contract.

Under an FOIA request, FSU legal has stated the school has never seen the ESPN contract.

That doesn't seem to be correct. The ACC By-laws state that the Commissioner negotiates the media contract . He is assisted by the Media Committee. The media contract is subject to the approval of two-thirds of the Directors (the school Presidents). See below.

Not sure if the FSU President was on the Media Committee. But at least two-thirds of the ACC Presidents saw the ESPN contract.

Have the FSU fans turned their anger to the FSU President and legal staff?


2.10.3 Conference Media Rights Agreements. The Commissioner shall negotiate all contracts and agreements for the sale, licensing, distribution and other exploitation of the Media Rights on behalf of the Conference as provided in Section 2.3.1(q); provided that any Material Media Rights Agreement shall require the approval of two-thirds (2/3) of the Directors and all other Media Rights agreements shall be subject to approval by the Executive Committee. The Media Committee established pursuant to Section 2.4.2 shall assist the Commissioner in the negotiation and evaluation of the Conference’s Media Rights agreements and shall make a recommendation to the Board with respect to any Media Rights agreement requiring Board approval.

https://virginiatech.sportswar.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2022/08/2020-21-ACC-Manual-2020-9-17-2.pdf

 

[billybud]

I'm talking about non rev sports being a part of the athletic department DNA. Many give to the Rams club primarily because of the opportunities scholarship athletes receive & the hope is they return that favor once they graduate by becoming life long donors. Finishing top 10 in the directors cup yearly is a stated goal of the department.

UNC does very well...FSU finished #14 Final 2021-22...not shabby.

 

[billybud]

What does the ACC's Grant of Rights agreement say? Here's a copy

Conference realignment is shaking college athletics once again. The key to ACC stability appears to be its grant of rights agreement. Read it here.

www.wralsportsfan.com

Oh gowd we have had the GOR fcopy orever...what nobody has seen is the ACC-ESPN contract

 

[billybud]

jostar...all I can tell you is that no school has a copy of the ESPN contract (it would then be public information)...And the Forida law does not allow remote viewing as a work around...if the FSU President reviews it in the process of policy making, it is public information. FSU has been requested for a copy of the ACC-ESPN contract and responded that they do not have a copy and have not seen it.

 

[CoastAtlantic]

 

[jostar1]

MH ver3@MH ver3
·
3h
So for those of you always saying I throw crap at the wall: Oregon State President just finished being interviewed by a journalist and she confirmed PAC is exploring unequal revenue sharing-which I told you back in August.

 

[billybud]

"The NCAA went to great lengths to conceal the documents relating to FSU's appeal of the NCAA's decision. In order to sidestep the public records law, the NCAA provided FSU with some documents in read-only format on a secure website that did not allow FSU to download or print them.

FSU said it couldn't provide the documents in question because it did not physically have them - a disingenuous argument.

Fortunately, state courts didn't buy the NCAA's argument, and now the NCAA and FSU are paying for it.

 

[Slasher]

MH ver3@MH ver3

3h
So for those of you always saying I throw crap at the wall: Oregon State President just finished being interviewed by a journalist and she confirmed PAC is exploring unequal revenue sharing-which I told you back in August.

Oh mH ver 3 you're so full of crap. Here's an actual reporter reporting this BEFORE you so you could claim it in August:

 

[Exit 4]

Oh mH ver 3 you're so full of crap. Here's an actual reporter reporting this BEFORE you so you could claim it in August:

This guy says everything to cover all scenarios. Pretty much worthless.

 

[CL82]

What exactly is FSU's and Clemson's recourse if the rest of the conference tells them that nothing is going to give until 2036?

And the $120m cost is wishful thinking. It's more like $120 plus loss of broadcast rights.

Leave the conference when it makes financial sense for them to do so.

The really interesting question is does whatever the ACC do actually matter? No matter what accommodation they make to the high value programs, they’re not gonna be able to keep pace with the P2. So, making any accommodation to them at all, only pisses off your other members. In my opinion, FSU is gone at the first financially, viable opportunity, and no reallocation of dollars in the near term will change that.

 

[jostar1]

MH ver3 @MH ver3
·
7h
Morning tidbit:A very prominent booster for Colorado is now threatening to pull all funding from the school If they do not start to actively seek to get out of the sinking ship that is the Pac 12. I’m told he said to the president that the A in PAC does not stand for academics.

 

[jostar1]

MH ver3@MH ver3
·
3h
Hearing GK has one complete proposal in hand now to present to presidents. My source says it’s a finalized Amazon/Espn proposal. Still working on Apple deal

MH ver3@MH ver3
·
3h
My source (who is talking to an AD at a pac school) says the deal with Espn/Amazon is worth $220m a year. $120m from Amazon/$100m espn. Amazon gets more first choice.