Non-Key Tweets

[FfldCntyFan]

North Carolina football has no national audience...even UNC fans talk basketball during football season.

If FSU went into conference membership believing football and only football should be the measuring stick they never should have considered joining the ACC.

 

[dayooper]

Very interesting. Not sure how much this all matters, but some surprises there.

• Top 3 no surprises there.
• Georgia Tech (9th) above Clemson, Stanford and UVA
• Oregon State (7th) is higher than the rest of the PAC not named Oregon or Washington.
• Washington State ahead of Clemson as well.

Again, not sure what this means for the Big10 or the SEC, but the top 4 targets remaining are Oregon, Washington, FSU and ND.

 

[jostar1]

Greg Flugaur@flugempire
·
6h
ACC unequal revenue sharing to solve revenue gap issue with Big Ten & SEC is not going to work.

To have it actually solve an issue is not going to work.

Too many voting parties among ACC membership will make sure there will be limited declines in their slices of Rev pie.


Greg Flugaur@flugempire
·
6h
Forms of conference’s unequal revenue sharing in the past is not an ideal comparison of what is happening now…what is needed now to solve Rev issue.

1. Rev gap has never been this large.
2. Rev gap has never been this meaningful because of the vast changes taking place in CFB.

Greg Flugaur@flugempire
·
6h
FSU speaking on the issue of revenue gap is not happening out of thin air (Dec 26).

There is a plan after unequal revenue plan fails.

This is called shaping the battlefield.

This is not the beginning of the story but maybe the middle of the beginning.

Long ways to go.

 

[billybud]

If FSU went into conference membership believing football and only football should be the measuring stick they never should have considered joining the ACC.

Well...football still is the "measuring stick" to getting paid...80% of the TV value of the ACC to ESPN is football.

And football viewership drives the bus.

FSU's administration was desirous of moving up standings on the academic side and the President wanted to align with the ACC.

And it has really accomplished that aim....

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Well...football still is the "measuring stick" to getting paid...80% of the TV value of the ACC to ESPN is football.

And football viewership drives the bus.

FSU's administration was desirous of moving up standings on the academic side and the President wanted to align with the ACC.

And it has really accomplished that aim....

Everything comes with an opportunity cost. Joining the ACC a little more than three decades ago and remaining under terms of membership appeared to be exactly what FSU wanted until the school decided it wasn't what they wanted.

Did anyone put a gun to FSU's head to get them to agree to the GOR?

The way it sounds to me, FSU was perfectly happy when membership in the ACC helped the school's academic profile (and likely provided sufficient benefits in football and even more benefits in basketball) but now, that the school has reaped those benefits it's time to either take more from the conference or leave.

 

[billybud]

You know...things change over 30 years.

And a near permanent commitment to an investment was indeed silly. What is good at the time, may not be good decades down the road.

If you couldn't dump your Blockbuster stock, TWA, Border's Bookstores, Sports Authority etc....you'd have been hurt.

The ACC traded stability for ultimately lower returns. The mistake was the length of the commitment.

.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

You know...things change over 30 years.

And a near permanent commitment to an investment was indeed silly. What is good at the time, may not be good decades down the road.

If you couldn't dump your Blockbuster stock, TWA, Border's Bookstores, Sports Authority etc....you'd have been hurt.

The ACC traded stability for ultimately lower returns. The mistake was the length of the commitment.

.

True, but at the moment you, as an FSU fan, sound like you (the school) went long on Blockbuster and now, that the investment tanked is saying "I want my money back".

 

[noeynox]

You know...things change over 30 years.

And a near permanent commitment to an investment was indeed silly. What is good at the time, may not be good decades down the road.

If you couldn't dump your Blockbuster stock, TWA, Border's Bookstores, Sports Authority etc....you'd have been hurt.

The ACC traded stability for ultimately lower returns. The mistake was the length of the commitment.

.

Everything is 20/20 in hindsight as they say. After orchestrating the Big East's destruction, the ACC knew the same thing could be done to them by stronger conferences. ESPN played them with the terms, but their commissioner at the time got the schools a deal that has the conference as a whole still standing. FSU had no problem cashing the checks until they saw the big raises the B1G and SEC schools got and all of a sudden they have a case of penis envy.

 

[Husky25]

Is it me or does it make too much sense (a therefore will not happen) for the ACC to invite UConn and split into two divisions?

Say Syracuse, BC, UConn, Pitt, Virginia Tech, Louisville, Miami, and ND's arrangement for the North.

Clemson Duke, FSU, Georgia Tech, UNC, NCSt, Virginia and Wake Forest form the South.

ESPN and FOX split the media contract.

The more things change, the more they'd stay the same.

 

[hoopsfan22]

Joining the ACC is like taking a seat next to the quartet on the Titanic.

 

[CL82]

Everything is 20/20 in hindsight as they say. After orchestrating the Big East's destruction, the ACC knew the same thing could be done to them by stronger conferences. ESPN played them with the terms, but their commissioner at the time got the schools a deal that has the conference as a whole still standing. FSU had no problem cashing the checks until they saw the big raises the B1G and SEC schools got and all of a sudden they have a case of penis envy.

Said differently, when you see the neighborhood mob enforcer burn down a store down the block when they didn’t agree to terms, you don’t say no when they come into your store offering to sell you “an insurance policy.” The ACC bought protection and didn’t get burned down like the big east did. Kind of tough now to be complaining about that deal.

 

[noeynox]

Said differently, when you see the neighborhood mob enforcer burn down a store down the block when they didn’t agree to terms, you don’t say no when they come into your store offering to sell you “an insurance policy.” The ACC bought protection and didn’t get burned down like the big east did. Kind of tough now to be complaining about that deal.

True. We saw a lot of crowing about the long term stability the length of the got them back then. Now we see a lot of crying over the length of deal.

 

[uchusky32]

Everything is 20/20 in hindsight as they say. After orchestrating the Big East's destruction, the ACC knew the same thing could be done to them by stronger conferences. ESPN played them with the terms, but their commissioner at the time got the schools a deal that has the conference as a whole still standing. FSU had no problem cashing the checks until they saw the big raises the B1G and SEC schools got and all of a sudden they have a case of penis envy.

And they haven't won on the field. If FSU and Miami were playing at a high level when the ESPN deal expired they would need to pay the ACC more money. But, they haven't played a meaningful game in Jan for a long time.

 

[billybud]

The problem has been the shorter term contracts of the SEC and B1G...as the sports market bloomed and contracts were negotiated on current conditions....the ACC could not adjust because of the length of the contract.

The ACC got what they wanted. Stability as they watched the Big East, Big 12, AAC get raided.

And Duke, UNC, Wake, Syracuse, BC, Virginia, and GT are like a Mad Magazine cover with Alfred E. Neuman's..."what, me worry ? " (Young guys can google it).

People can try to rationalize whatever they want. Neither a hypothesis nor hope is a fact. And I know that the FSU leadership are aware, rational folks and, with Clemson, are letting the conference know that something has to give.

I do hope that FSU's guys haven't fallen into the Bitcoin trap.

Bitcoin had lots of dollars chasing it because the owners of those dollars had convinced themselves that there is some reason why it should be worth more than it is. Despite no logical reason that Bitcoin should be worth more. The stories attempting to rationalize why did not make sense to me...a non crypto investor.

 

[jostar1]

MH ver3@MH ver3
·
18m
One more addendum: there is still room for media growth for conferences that can negotiate their basketball content separately (ACC/B12).

 

[ramses 2.0]

The problem has been the shorter term contracts of the SEC and B1G...as the sports market bloomed and contracts were negotiated on current conditions....the ACC could not adjust because of the length of the contract.

The ACC got what they wanted. Stability as they watched the Big East, Big 12, AAC get raided.

And Duke, UNC, Wake, Syracuse, BC, Virginia, and GT are like a Mad Magazine cover with Alfred E. Neuman's..."what, me worry ? " (Young guys can google it).

People can try to rationalize whatever they want. Neither a hypothesis nor hope is a fact. And I know that the FSU leadership are aware, rational folks and, with Clemson, are letting the conference know that something has to give.

I do hope that FSU's guys haven't fallen into the Bitcoin trap.

Bitcoin had lots of dollars chasing it because the owners of those dollars had convinced themselves that there is some reason why it should be worth more than it is. Despite no logical reason that Bitcoin should be worth more. The stories attempting to rationalize why did not make sense to me...a non crypto investor.

What exactly is UNC not doing that has you convinced it's just sitting around hoping for a miracle. The difference between UNC & FSU is that you guys have to be loud about issues simply because your alumni/fan base need the perception of action whether anything is really happening or not. The fact is UNC has no need to panic since it may not have the best hand but it's certainly not worst one

 

[jostar1]

What exactly is UNC not doing that has you convinced it's just sitting around hoping for a miracle. The difference between UNC & FSU is that you guys have to be loud about issues simply because your alumni/fan base need the perception of action whether anything is really happening or not. The fact is UNC has no need to panic since it may not have the best hand but it's certainly not worst one

Yes. It was the UNC AD who was doing some out of the box thinking here:

"It was actually the ACC and more to the point the University of North Carolina that brought up the idea. Andrew Carter of The News & Observer, last summer reported that university leadership at North Carolina floated the idea of a “super conference” between the ACC and Pac-12.

“Should we explore a partnership with the Big 12 or Pac 12[?]” UNC athletic director Bubba Cunningham texted university chancellor Kevin Guskiewicz.

“We could have a super conference both athletically and academically,” Guskiewicz responded. “Probably would need to be called the Atlantic-Pacific Athletic Conference (APAC). Maybe that’s crazy, but if it would get us a better TV deal, it may be worth considering,” he continued.

“We need to think about what outcomes we want? What are our priorities? Do we want to maintain all teams in the ACC? Is this a new league? Do we want to have the same number of teams at each school? Should we play a national schedule or regional schedule?” Cunningham questioned..

 

[Slasher]

Wow what a mess. The problem with using conference distributions and tying that to TV ratings are numerous:
1) Conference distributions include NCAA tournament credits -- 100% irrelevant to football TV ratings
2) What channel you're on greatly affects ratings -- ABC > ESPN > ESPN2 > ESPNU > ACC Network
3) Basketball has value as much as the football people want to yell and scream. Sure it's 30-40% at most but there's still value there
4) FSU might agree to such an agreement but the rest of the league isn't. Truth be told in the ACC there's more havenots than haves.

 

[billybud]

What exactly is UNC not doing that has you convinced it's just sitting around hoping for a miracle. The difference between UNC & FSU is that you guys have to be loud about issues simply because your alumni/fan base need the perception of action whether anything is really happening or not. The fact is UNC has no need to panic since it may not have the best hand but it's certainly not worst one

UNC is basketball oriented and they see that as their main sport...they are concerned, of course, but about the Tar Heels basketball collapse this season. They are not concerned about the SEC as their competition in football.

All FSU and Clemson have done is put the truth out there that we all know and discuss...for their programs as football brands, the ever widening revenue gulf is untenable and they called that spade for what it is.. Their allegiance is to their program, not to the conference...and that is as it should be.

FSU's primary rival is Florida...the Tallahassee city limits are 18 miles from the Georgia border with Alabama hugging the border along the panhandle.

Duke and UNC voted against FSU joining the conference because they might push football. It is what it is...FSU and Clemson are football brands...UNC and Duke are basketball brands.

 

[billybud]

Clemson and FSU have been pushing revenue enhancement through expansion and contract renegotiation for several years. They are looking at every angle to keeping up while shackled by the long term contract.

They have legal beagles looking at the GOR...and have already decided that the $120 million Exit Fee would not be an obstacle...if The GOR can be defeated or negotiated..

As FSU's BOT Chair has said...

“We’re going to continue to talk about it. And we’re going to continue to push,” Collins said. “We have to push. We have to do everything we can to take care of Florida State University. Our primary concern is not the ACC. Our primary concern is Florida State.”

 

[ramses 2.0]

UNC is basketball oriented and they see that as their main sport...they are concerned, of course, but about the Tar Heels basketball collapse this season. They are not concerned about the SEC as their competition in football.

All FSU and Clemson have done is put the truth out there that we all know and discuss...for their programs as football brands, the ever widening revenue gulf is untenable and they called that spade for what it is.. Their allegiance is to their program, not to the conference...and that is as it should be.

FSU's primary rival is Florida...the Tallahassee city limits are 18 miles from the Georgia border with Alabama hugging the border along the panhandle.

Duke and UNC voted against FSU joining the conference because they might push football. It is what it is...FSU and Clemson are football brands...UNC and Duke are basketball brands.

I'm not disagreeing with FSU's point of view nor do I believe UNC is not concerned about long term finances but we have a different set of dynamics we have to account for. First we have a large Alumni base that care about non revenue sports especially women's & they contribute to football/basketball needs as long as those sports are given proper resources to be successful. So football is important from a revenue/brand building perspective, just doesn't have to compete for national titles

 

[billybud]

True, but at the moment you, as an FSU fan, sound like you (the school) went long on Blockbuster and now, that the investment tanked is saying "I want my money back".

Nope....more like a program that has fired a coach and has to continue paying him....sad money. FSU and Clemson have not been happy with the conference for many years. It has to do with the emphasis and investment in football.

FSU guys always saw Swofford, the ex UNC guy with a campus building named after him, as a basketball first guy who got surprised when the media payout paid based on football surpassed the old model where basketball was the lead.....FSU and Clemson invested in their football programs..

It is frustration built up over years...it was 2012...

Andy Haggard, Florida State University's Board of Trustee's Chairman, blasted the ACC's new television deal and said the board would consider a move to the Big 12 if it is in FSU's interest. The article specifically casts doubt on whether there has been any talk between FSU and the Big 12, but opens the door for conversations in the future.

Florida State is unhappy that the ACC's new TV contract gives third-tier media rights for football to ESPN/ABC, but allows schools to retain third-tier basketball rights. This favors basketball-centric schools like UNC and Duke at the expense of football-centric schools like Florida State (and Clemson).

Long story and boring to UConn folks...but it is a long running Days of Our Lives.

 

[The Yakk]

And I know that the FSU leadership are aware, rational folks and, with Clemson, are letting the conference know that something has to give.

What exactly is FSU's and Clemson's recourse if the rest of the conference tells them that nothing is going to give until 2036?

And the $120m cost is wishful thinking. It's more like $120 plus loss of broadcast rights.

 

[billybud]

I don't know about the "breakability" of the GOR....only that no team in the conference has studied the GOR like FSU...

It is an easy out if ESPN wants it to happen...if the ACC can continue to meet their contract obligations to ESPN without FSU and/or Clemson, no foul...that is in the GOR. FSU rights are assigned to the ACC as necessary to fullfil their ESPN contract obligation.

If ESPN arranges it so that ACC members do not lose money and the contract is amended (maybe for additions). It would be the $120 million Exit Fee...

 

[Chin Diesel]

The problem has been the shorter term contracts of the SEC and B1G...as the sports market bloomed and contracts were negotiated on current conditions....the ACC could not adjust because of the length of the contract.

The ACC got what they wanted. Stability as they watched the Big East, Big 12, AAC get raided.

Almost like thinking strategically about contracts and their length rather than tactically has its advantages.