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Exit 4 said:
And here is is latest column. Warning you know, he reads like Whaler11.
Why ESPN and Fox don't want to pay for any planned Big 12 expansion


Andy StaplesVerified account‏@Andy_Staples
Andy Staples Retweeted Del Abramson

Sheer population matters when selling subscriptions to X people for X cents a month. This is about owning your town.
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I am sure that Big 12 people are looking into whether or not UConn can really deliver the volume. Can we get XX cents a month from the NYC DMA? If we can, we are in and it's not close. No other candidate comes remotely close to bringing New York plus Connecticut sized population numbers.

Here is what we know about market share in the northeast:

1. UConn, without question, owns the Hartford/New Haven market. #30 DMA in the country is bigger than #34 Cincinnati...and there is no question that UC is #2 in their own home market. The same can be said about every single other AAC candidate. Memphis doesn't own Memphis. Houston doesn't own Houston. UCF/Orlando. USF/Tampa. ECU/yeah...I'm just joking. I *think* BYU's "home market is Salt Lake City...I would say they own that but I really don't know how much Utah/Utah St/BYU battles fall into line. So, really, there is one school that can 100% guarantee its home market.

2. We are a Top 5 followed football program in New York and Boston. Do we deliver either of these cities based on that? Probably not. That would be like someone suggesting UMass could deliver Hartford/New Haven. Here's where the lines blur a bit though: basketball. UConn (and Syracuse) own the New York city college basketball landscape. Our Big East roots at Madison Square Garden not only has given our NYC alumni opportunities to see live games, but it has grown a HUGE fanbase in the city as a result. The last time we played at MSG, tickets were more expensive than Final Four tickets that year. Iowa St and Michigan St fans did not stand a chance - the Garden was not going to let UConn lose. I will never forget how loud MSG was for the Michigan State game. I will never forget how a silly Mateen Cleaves vs Rip Hamilton videoboard showdown was the catapult that sparked our comeback. It was as if The Garden video guy was a UConn guy and needed to remind the arena just whose arena it belonged to. Now, don't you think that if UConn football played competitively again (like they are trending back towards doing), those same hoops fans wouldn't tune in a UConn football game? Of course they would. A Pinstripe Bowl with UConn in it (should an ACC/B1G school fail to fill their tie-in) sells out and gives a Penn State type of atmosphere against Boston College.

New York is far more of a college basketball town than it is a college football town. Yet, that hasn't stopped the B1G and ACC to battle over it relentless. And don't forget - the B12 used to have a tie-in to the Pinstripe Bowl only to be nudged out by the B1G/ACC. Wouldn't they want to get a sniff of it again? If one of the afore-mentioned conferences can't fill its spot, wouldn't a UConn/B12 game at Yankee Stadium be fun? You could guarantee 25-30K at least UConn fans in the stands no matter who we play. Not to mention the swell in NYC ratings...for B12 football in New York.
 
Dooley said:
I am sure that Big 12 people are looking into whether or not UConn can really deliver the volume. Can we get XX cents a month from the NYC DMA? If we can, we are in and it's not close. No other candidate comes remotely close to bringing New York plus Connecticut sized population numbers.

Here is what we know about market share in the northeast:

1. UConn, without question, owns the Hartford/New Haven market. #30 DMA in the country is bigger than #34 Cincinnati...and there is no question that UC is #2 in their own home market. The same can be said about every single other AAC candidate. Memphis doesn't own Memphis. Houston doesn't own Houston. UCF/Orlando. USF/Tampa. ECU/yeah...I'm just joking. I *think* BYU's "home market is Salt Lake City...I would say they own that but I really don't know how much Utah/Utah St/BYU battles fall into line. So, really, there is one school that can 100% guarantee its home market.

2. We are a Top 5 followed football program in New York and Boston. Do we deliver either of these cities based on that? Probably not. That would be like someone suggesting UMass could deliver Hartford/New Haven. Here's where the lines blur a bit though: basketball. UConn (and Syracuse) own the New York city college basketball landscape. Our Big East roots at Madison Square Garden not only has given our NYC alumni opportunities to see live games, but it has grown a HUGE fanbase in the city as a result. The last time we played at MSG, tickets were more expensive than Final Four tickets that year. Iowa St and Michigan St fans did not stand a chance - the Garden was not going to let UConn lose. I will never forget how loud MSG was for the Michigan State game. I will never forget how a silly Mateen Cleaves vs Rip Hamilton videoboard showdown was the catapult that sparked our comeback. It was as if The Garden video guy was a UConn guy and needed to remind the arena just whose arena it belonged to. Now, don't you think that if UConn football played competitively again (like they are trending back towards doing), those same hoops fans wouldn't tune in a UConn football game? Of course they would. A Pinstripe Bowl with UConn in it (should an ACC/B1G school fail to fill their tie-in) sells out and gives a Penn State type of atmosphere against Boston College.

New York is far more of a college basketball town than it is a college football town. Yet, that hasn't stopped the B1G and ACC to battle over it relentless. And don't forget - the B12 used to have a tie-in to the Pinstripe Bowl only to be nudged out by the B1G/ACC. Wouldn't they want to get a sniff of it again? If one of the afore-mentioned conferences can't fill its spot, wouldn't a UConn/B12 game at Yankee Stadium be fun? You could guarantee 25-30K at least UConn fans in the stands no matter who we play. Not to mention the swell in NYC ratings...for B12 football in New York.
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Send all of your research to the Big 12 headquarters directly. It certainly won't hurt our chances.
 
Dooley said:
I am sure that Big 12 people are looking into whether or not UConn can really deliver the volume. Can we get XX cents a month from the NYC DMA? If we can, we are in and it's not close. No other candidate comes remotely close to bringing New York plus Connecticut sized population numbers.

Here is what we know about market share in the northeast:

1. UConn, without question, owns the Hartford/New Haven market. #30 DMA in the country is bigger than #34 Cincinnati...and there is no question that UC is #2 in their own home market. The same can be said about every single other AAC candidate. Memphis doesn't own Memphis. Houston doesn't own Houston. UCF/Orlando. USF/Tampa. ECU/yeah...I'm just joking. I *think* BYU's "home market is Salt Lake City...I would say they own that but I really don't know how much Utah/Utah St/BYU battles fall into line. So, really, there is one school that can 100% guarantee its home market.

2. We are a Top 5 followed football program in New York and Boston. Do we deliver either of these cities based on that? Probably not. That would be like someone suggesting UMass could deliver Hartford/New Haven. Here's where the lines blur a bit though: basketball. UConn (and Syracuse) own the New York city college basketball landscape. Our Big East roots at Madison Square Garden not only has given our NYC alumni opportunities to see live games, but it has grown a HUGE fanbase in the city as a result. The last time we played at MSG, tickets were more expensive than Final Four tickets that year. Iowa St and Michigan St fans did not stand a chance - the Garden was not going to let UConn lose. I will never forget how loud MSG was for the Michigan State game. I will never forget how a silly Mateen Cleaves vs Rip Hamilton videoboard showdown was the catapult that sparked our comeback. It was as if The Garden video guy was a UConn guy and needed to remind the arena just whose arena it belonged to. Now, don't you think that if UConn football played competitively again (like they are trending back towards doing), those same hoops fans wouldn't tune in a UConn football game? Of course they would. A Pinstripe Bowl with UConn in it (should an ACC/B1G school fail to fill their tie-in) sells out and gives a Penn State type of atmosphere against Boston College.

New York is far more of a college basketball town than it is a college football town. Yet, that hasn't stopped the B1G and ACC to battle over it relentless. And don't forget - the B12 used to have a tie-in to the Pinstripe Bowl only to be nudged out by the B1G/ACC. Wouldn't they want to get a sniff of it again? If one of the afore-mentioned conferences can't fill its spot, wouldn't a UConn/B12 game at Yankee Stadium be fun? You could guarantee 25-30K at least UConn fans in the stands no matter who we play. Not to mention the swell in NYC ratings...for B12 football in New York.
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But there still isn't going to be a network. And unless the Big 12 listens to ESPN and Fox - the ratings don't really matter.

UConn does move the needle in basketball in the city - but the whole regional ticket being more expensive than Final Four tickets... that would pretty much happen any time a regional is in MSG. The giant domes they play Final Fours in are always going to act as a downward force on those ticket prices.

BTW - UConn has played at MSG since the regional final ;).

It would be interesting to see some NYC specific tv ratings - because it's not like it's difficult for people from CT to get there and based on the amount of people I ride the train with it's hard to judge how much of the attendance is people from Connecticut who just enjoy the trip.
 
whaler11 said:
But there still isn't going to be a network. And unless the Big 12 listens to ESPN and Fox - the ratings don't really matter.

UConn does move the needle in basketball in the city - but the whole regional ticket being more expensive than Final Four tickets... that would pretty much happen any time a regional is in MSG. The giant domes they play Final Fours in are always going to act as a downward force on those ticket prices.

BTW - UConn has played at MSG since the regional final ;).

It would be interesting to see some NYC specific tv ratings - because it's not like it's difficult for people from CT to get there and based on the amount of people I ride the train with it's hard to judge how much of the attendance is people from Connecticut who just enjoy the trip.
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I will never understand why being a "travel partner" for WVU has allowed Cincinnati's spot to be so safe and secure in all of this. Who cares if they have a partner? Cincinnati is like Pitt. They are just....there. Not great at anything, but not good enough to be interesting, in a pro sports town where they are 2nd fiddle. Just a whole lot of blah.

I'm so ready for this to be over. The uphill battle we always seem to face every single time is just demoralizing. I just watched a bit of our 2003 game at the Rent vs BC on UConnhuskygames.com. Sold out LOUD crowd as a flagship state school that owns the #30 market and is smack in the middle between NYC/Boston. No one offers that. No one. The lack of imagination of what we were and can be again if given the chance is just maddening.
 
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shizzle787 said:
Send all of your research to the Big 12 headquarters directly. It certainly won't hurt our chances.
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I like Flug's anology
UConn in the air
Meaning UConn delivers Markets
BYU on the ground
Meaning BYU sells the most Game Day tickets
They will probably bring thousands even for IS and KS,
 
ASweet3781 said:
I will never understand why being a "travel partner" for WVU has allowed Cincinnati's spot to be so safe and secure in all of this. Who cares if they have a partner? Cincinnati is like Pitt. They are just....there. Not great at anything, but not good enough to be interesting, in a pro sports town where they are 2nd fiddle. Just a whole lot of blah.

I'm so ready for this to be over. The uphill battle we always seem to face every single time is just demoralizing. I just watched a bit of our 2003 game at the Rent vs BC on UConnhuskygames.com. Sold out LOUD crowd as a flagship state school that owns the #30 market and is smack in the middle between NYC/Boston. No one offers that. No one. The lack of imagination of what we were and can be again if given the chance is just maddening.
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I am pretty sure the powers that be are well aware of our potential. As others pointed out, maybe changing your avatar can help snap out of PTSD since we keep looking at a cause of some of the trauma.
 
ASweet3781 said:
I will never understand why being a "travel partner" for WVU has allowed Cincinnati's spot to be so safe and secure in all of this. Who cares if they have a partner? Cincinnati is like Pitt. They are just....there. Not great at anything, but not good enough to be interesting, in a pro sports town where they are 2nd fiddle. Just a whole lot of blah.

I'm so ready for this to be over. The uphill battle we always seem to face every single time is just demoralizing. I just watched a bit of our 2003 game at the Rent vs BC on UConnhuskygames.com. Sold out LOUD crowd as a flagship state school that owns the #30 market and is smack in the middle between NYC/Boston. No one offers that. No one. The lack of imagination of what we were and can be again if given the chance is just maddening.
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The right answer for any conference is UConn and Cinci. The Bearcats really do a great job punching above their weight class.

They were a good rival in the Big East. In the American they have been the only program that is a peer.

If the Big 12 decides to make the long play - they expand by two with UConn and Cincinnati.
 
There isn't going to be a traditional network for the Big 12. With the ACC network not launching until 2019, it's in flux how much of that will be traditional vs. streaming based distribution. Back when the B12 network idea was tabled, Boren did have a comment about non-traditional (i.e. streaming) platforms... which are in flux. All the media types who actually follow this stuff are pretty consistent saying that nobody in the industry knows what that will look like even a few years from now. So they'll (all the conferences, including G5) will try some stuff. Throw ideas at the wall, see what sticks.

It might mean P5 will be able to maintain what they're getting, it might mean P5 -> P4 or P5 -> P2, it might mean everybody takes a haircut, it might mean the whole thing collapses... we just don't know.
 
ASweet3781 said:
I will never understand why being a "travel partner" for WVU has allowed Cincinnati's spot to be so safe and secure in all of this. Who cares if they have a partner? Cincinnati is like Pitt. They are just....there. Not great at anything, but not good enough to be interesting, in a pro sports town where they are 2nd fiddle. Just a whole lot of blah.

I'm so ready for this to be over. The uphill battle we always seem to face every single time is just demoralizing. I just watched a bit of our 2003 game at the Rent vs BC on UConnhuskygames.com. Sold out LOUD crowd as a flagship state school that owns the #30 market and is smack in the middle between NYC/Boston. No one offers that. No one. The lack of imagination of what we were and can be again if given the chance is just maddening.
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Part of the answer is Paul Brown Stadium: Cinci is an NFL city. The Bearcats have already hosted the Sooners there. I don't think that Cinci, if added to the XII, will EVER host Bevo or the Sooners at Nippert. When you are hosting royalty, you do so at the grand ball room, not your living room. At present, UCONN can't compete with that locally. The RENT, as currently configured, is too small & doesn't have NFL type amenities. This means that such games must be played at Metlife, Yankee Stadium, Citifield, or Gillette. Lots of red tape & then there's the bugaboo of the State of CT.'s mandate that home games be played at the RENT.
 
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whaler11 said:
The right answer for any conference is UConn and Cinci. The Bearcats really do a great job punching above their weight class.

They were a good rival in the Big East. In the American they have been the only program that is a peer.

If the Big 12 decides to make the long play - they expand by two with UConn and Cincinnati.
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Been thinking about this a lot. Also hard to make the case that these programs are not P5 worthy when both were in a BCS LEAGUE and played in BCS bowls. Also UConn basketball is elite and Cincy basketball is decent.

If the networks play is to withhold money, and those are the two adds, they (networks) lose a lot of their steam. Which coincidentally some comments early from Bowlsby or Boren can't remember which one included that some of the schools they were evaluating were recently BCS schools.
 
coachcap said:
. Lots of red tape & then there's the bugaboo of the State of CT.'s mandate that home games be played at the RENT.
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If you are in a league, you play at your opponents HOME stadium no matter its size. End of story. I am sure that TX and OU will get their full allotment of few thousand away fan tickets just like they do for every other away game. Stadium size is just a BS argument because they never get more than a sliver of tickets for away games. Based on how Uconn handled the MI game, I can see the major conference visitors getting more tickets at the Rent than at any other conference venue. Moving to a "major" stadium would only encourage a gate split with the visititng team and actually kill any home advantage that Uconn might have.

There is no worse venue for a visiting team than BC as there is no parking for visiting fans (certainly no RV lots), high costs for hotels and for getting to the game. Somehow, BC manages to keep all of their home games in a small stadium versus the blue bloods of FB including PSU, ND, FSU, Clemson, USC, etc. Uconn should expect the same.
 
06029 said:
If you are in a league, you play at your opponents HOME stadium no matter its size. End of story. I am sure that TX and OU will get their full allotment of few thousand away fan tickets just like they do for every other away game. Stadium size is just a BS argument because they never get more than a sliver of tickets for away games. Based on how Uconn handled the MI game, I can see the major conference visitors getting more tickets at the Rent than at any other conference venue. Moving to a "major" stadium would only encourage a gate split with the visititng team and actually kill any home advantage that Uconn might have.

There is no worse venue for a visiting team than BC as there is no parking for visiting fans (certainly no RV lots), high costs for hotels and for getting to the game. Somehow, BC manages to keep all of their home games in a small stadium versus the blue bloods of FB including PSU, ND, FSU, Clemson, USC, etc. Uconn should expect the same.
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Truth. I'm all for playing 1 home game every couple of years at Yankee Stadium or wherever to help our bid, but we play at the Rent. That's our stadium. And it's a pretty good one
 
06029 said:
If you are in a league, you play at your opponents HOME stadium no matter its size. End of story. I am sure that TX and OU will get their full allotment of few thousand away fan tickets just like they do for every other away game. Stadium size is just a BS argument because they never get more than a sliver of tickets for away games. Based on how Uconn handled the MI game, I can see the major conference visitors getting more tickets at the Rent than at any other conference venue. Moving to a "major" stadium would only encourage a gate split with the visititng team and actually kill any home advantage that Uconn might have.

There is no worse venue for a visiting team than BC as there is no parking for visiting fans (certainly no RV lots), high costs for hotels and for getting to the game. Somehow, BC manages to keep all of their home games in a small stadium versus the blue bloods of FB including PSU, ND, FSU, Clemson, USC, etc. Uconn should expect the same.
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Pretty sure UT plays a few early home games at AT&T....
 
Texas plays their home games in Austin except of course the Oklahoma game which is played at the Cotton Bowl
 
Frank the Tank ‏@frankthetank111 · 29m29 minutes ago
Frank the Tank Retweeted Chuck Carlton
Five industry sources weigh in on top candidates to join Big 12; ESPN and Fox not thrilled with expansion talks | SportsDay

Must read on Big 12 expansion. Lots of info on how expansion talks are proceeding, who is involved and UT/OU stances

Frank the Tank ‏@frankthetank111 · 22m22 minutes ago
A few things stands out from this report: (1) Texas politician support for Houston has definitely mattered...

Frank the Tank ‏@frankthetank111 · 18m18 minutes ago
(2) BYU has support but still questions. Astute commenters on my blog mentioned sexual assault policy & LGBTQ stance

Frank the Tank ‏@frankthetank111 · 16m16 minutes ago
(3) Cincinnati also has good support, although there's not-too-veiled suggestion that WVU doesn't want them...

Frank the Tank ‏@frankthetank111 · 16m16 minutes ago
(4) We should still expect Big 12 expansion regardless of TV partner stances. Question is whether it's 2 or 4.

Aron Buch‏@AB670
@frankthetank111 Do you see UConn in if they go 4? Can't see going 2 now that Texas pushing Houston

Frank the Tank ‏@frankthetank111 · 7m7 minutes ago
IMHO only: Houston & Cincinnati are in good shape, BYU in decent shape, UConn and Memphis compete for last spot.

Frank the Tank ‏@frankthetank111 · 7m7 minutes ago
Granted, I wouldn't put it past Big 12 at all to expand just with Houston and Cincinnati and stop there.
 
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Expand with Houston and Cincy only? Now how is that not going to piss off the tv folks? Talk about a plan to kill your tv partners today and set you up for disappointment in 2025 on that next tv deal.
 
jostar1 said:
Summary
It may be easy to poke fun at it or spin a little humor in the words and phrases used in Big 12 expansion talk, but looking at it straight, there's a lot to digest and understand along the way.



CFAA‏@CFAAEliteClips
Dick Harmon: Big 12 terminology that's surfaced among expansion discussions


Dick Harmon: Big 12 terminology that's surfaced among expansion discussions
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Clearly Dick Harmon is a fan and avid reader of the Boneyard. You are welcome Mr Harmon!
 
Frank the Tank ‏@frankthetank111 · 20m20 minutes ago
IMHO only: Houston & Cincinnati are in good shape, BYU in decent shape, UConn and Memphis compete for last spot.

Greg Flugaur ‏@flugempire · 18m18 minutes ago
@frankthetank111
If decisions are made per conclusionary data it's UCONN over Memphis
Market size
Owning of Market
$ in Market
Brand size

Greg Flugaur ‏@flugempire · 12m12 minutes ago
The same motivating factor which led Boren to unmask the pro-rata clause in TV tier 1 & 2 contract in 2015...leads him today...
 
Like I said last night, I'm starting to believe this is all a huge bluff by the Big 12 to get an extra payout without expanding.

But if this is real, and everyone seems to say it's between us and Memphis for #4, then Herbst and Benedict better be campaigning their asses off behind the scenes. Literally all they have to do is beat whatever ridiculous FedEx deal Memphis claims to have. If it's about money, find the money. I don't care if you have to go ask for a loan from Jim Calhoun. Find the cash.
 
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Hard to see how Houston gets in without a absolute fit by Fox.
 
I can't see how expanding by 2 would ever include Univ. of Houston. It does not make any sense as adding Houston is a leach to the other Big 12 members. Univ of Houston would weaken all Big 12 schools recruiting advantage in Houston Area as well as would not help the Big 12 Media Footprint. Its academics would look below the other Big 12 schools too. What is the gain for adding Univ of Houston? You would have 5 TX schools in Big 12 giving to much power to them as a collective group and give more power to Univ of Texas since they got them in. As they say TCU will vote with Univ of Texas as they help get them into the Big 12 too. The Texas Power Block that would happen would not be good for the non-Texas base schools. The only logical sense of adding Univ of Houston would be from the TX political play on blocking votes for other schools, but that can only be justified when adding 4 schools.
 
Slasher said:
I think you mean ESPN. Fox doesn't want any part of Houston. They want eastern timezone content.
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Right, what I meant was "Hard to see how Houston gets in, Fox will throw an absolute fit."

This is a fascinating crossroads for the B12. B12 leadership is all getting an education on tv markets and the realities of big media - much more than they probably ever anticipated learning. The only amicable deal for a 4 team expansion is UConn/Cincy/UCF or USF and BYU. Thats the most $$ for tv and that is what really matters.

And if can't get along with BYU, then you swap BYU for Temple/Memphis or another FL school. Its about markets.
 
I read somewhere on LT's CR 12 board that 2 teams are already wrapped up...and dying to announce but can't announce yet....i thought it was BYU and Cinncy....I heard Tuberville left the HC's roundtable at AAC's media days after being told and just left? Hermann stayed and another rumor was the next 2 if their are 2 more won't be on board until ''18''....just a few tweet/rumors I picked up....no way should Memphis be able to buy their way in!!! That would leave UH,UConn and Memphis fighting for 2 spots if the rumor had any validity!?!
 
Dooley said:
I am sure that Big 12 people are looking into whether or not UConn can really deliver the volume. Can we get XX cents a month from the NYC DMA? If we can, we are in and it's not close. No other candidate comes remotely close to bringing New York plus Connecticut sized population numbers.

Here is what we know about market share in the northeast:

1. UConn, without question, owns the Hartford/New Haven market. #30 DMA in the country is bigger than #34 Cincinnati...and there is no question that UC is #2 in their own home market. The same can be said about every single other AAC candidate. Memphis doesn't own Memphis. Houston doesn't own Houston. UCF/Orlando. USF/Tampa. ECU/yeah...I'm just joking. I *think* BYU's "home market is Salt Lake City...I would say they own that but I really don't know how much Utah/Utah St/BYU battles fall into line. So, really, there is one school that can 100% guarantee its home market
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If you add in Fairfield County, which is in the NYC DMA, Connecticut would rank 20/21. That's an important and profitable DMA.
 
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