Non-Key Tweets

[Jimdish255]

I think the obsession with ND in CR is more on the fans side at this point. They are not the lynchpin to success for any conference because they have proven to be the black hole of realignment. ACC/BE deals prove an unwillingness to go "all-in" for football with anyone and the other conferences probably regret any time already wasted on them. Better to wait for them to come and say they're ready than to waste an ounce of time that could be spent making concrete long-term plans. Maintain relationship but move on to more reliable options.

 

[UConnTrumbull]

Is it crazy that I'm actually missing pro-uconn updates from Flug? When did this thread turn into a BCU/ND thread?!

 

[HuskyHawk]

Without a conference network, there is no money to add Connecticut to the ACC. It is that simple. Given the fact that the bulk of their T3 inventory is tied up with Raycom, and the the # of cable cutters and ESPN's resulting declining revenue, I doubt the ACCN will happen. No ACCN, no UConn to the ACC.

I suppose that ESPN could decide to prop up their house band yet again and finances a UConn acquisition but I don't see it happening. Likewise, I suppose ND could decide to join in full but if they can sit back and wait for clear winners and losers in the conference wars before committing, why wouldn't they?

That's it in a nutshell. I'm convinced that if ND joined the ACC, UConn would be their partner and the combined strength plus Syracuse would make ACC the strongest league in the NY metro. But without ND, ACC has no $ to play with and has to watch from the sidelines. It's not fatal, it merely means that the NY metro would be divided three ways.

 

[Tusky]

Is it crazy that I'm actually missing pro-uconn updates from Flug? When did this thread turn into a BCU/ND thread?!

Sorry, I just don't know of any other good CR boards. I'm really not making this about BC. That was tongue-in-cheek. I think the only point I wanted to make was that I think ND will move if 4x16 is happening and if the discussion of the week is the death of the ACC, you can't really consider where the chips will fall without figuring out ND first.

 

[pj]

Notre Dame's greatest support is in the Midwest and Northeast. The B1G was eager for Notre Dame when they had no east coast presence, but having proven that they can capture eastern cable markets without Notre Dame, I expect that UConn + UVa or Va Tech would bring more money than any Notre Dame +1 combination at this point.

Notre Dame is hugely valuable to the ACC, but is the ACC able to generate enough money to entice Notre Dame to join without giving them a preferential deal, which could destabilize the conference?

B12 and SEC must be unattractive to Notre Dame.

Notre Dame's ACC deal delays a decision until 2025, but by that time the B1G may be unavailable to them and they'll be down to one bidder. If independence isn't working, then they may have to go in to the ACC on the same terms as BC. That would be quite a come down.

 

[Tusky]

That's it in a nutshell. I'm convinced that if ND joined the ACC, UConn would be their partner and the combined strength plus Syracuse would make ACC the strongest league in the NY metro. But without ND, ACC has no $ to play with and has to watch from the sidelines. It's not fatal, it merely means that the NY metro would be divided three ways.

Preference would be the unlikely dream of ND and Penn State to the ACC, but realistically I think even most BC fans would take ND and UConn. (Or Cinci...or even WVU...)

 

[Tusky]

Notre Dame's greatest support is in the Midwest and Northeast. The B1G was eager for Notre Dame when they had no east coast presence, but having proven that they can capture eastern cable markets without Notre Dame, I expect that UConn + UVa or Va Tech would bring more money than any Notre Dame +1 combination at this point.

Notre Dame is hugely valuable to the ACC, but is the ACC able to generate enough money to entice Notre Dame to join without giving them a preferential deal, which could destabilize the conference?

B12 and SEC must be unattractive to Notre Dame.

Notre Dame's ACC deal delays a decision until 2025, but by that time the B1G may be unavailable to them and they'll be down to one bidder. If independence isn't working, then they may have to go in to the ACC on the same terms as BC. That would be quite a come down.

Again, far from an expert, but I really don't think you can underestimate ND's value. It's a must-carry school. They MUST be on tv every week, because they're going to reliably get great ratings. Even for the BIG, this means huge value because you're not just talking the value of ND in tier 1. On weeks with OSU-UM or MSU-UM, the ND game is going to drop down the tiers but still going to kill it in the ratings.

That's the type of value that increases the carriage fees for the BTN. ND playing 3 games a year on the BTN means the BIG actually gets a full $1 per subscriber in NYC, and likely gets even more than $1 through the rest of the BIG.

And again, forget 2025 for ND to move. They have more money than God and could get out of the ACC obligation without batting an eye.

Edit: Oh, and it's also a guaranteed sellout for every team in the BIG, with great local marketing. Teams like Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Northwestern, Rutgers, Maryland and Minnesota would welcome that in a heartbeat. Way more than UVa, VT or someone similar.

 

[CL82]

Preference would be the unlikely dream of ND and Penn State to the ACC, but realistically I think even most BC fans would take ND and UConn. (Or Cinci...or even WVU...)

Why would PSU take a pay cut and go to a less stable, less prestigious conference? I acknowledge that you state it as unlikely, but I'm curious as why you think it is even worth mentioning.

 

[UConnTrumbull]

Sorry, I just don't know of any other good CR boards. I'm really not making this about BC. That was tongue-in-cheek. I think the only point I wanted to make was that I think ND will move if 4x16 is happening and if the discussion of the week is the death of the ACC, you can't really consider where the chips will fall without figuring out ND first.

Haha, no problem. Just not used to this thread being about anything other than UConn

 

[hardcorehusky]

Without a conference network, there is no money to add Connecticut to the ACC. It is that simple. Given the fact that the bulk of their T3 inventory is tied up with Raycom, and the the # of cable cutters and ESPN's resulting declining revenue, I doubt the ACCN will happen. No ACCN, no UConn to the ACC.

I suppose that ESPN could decide to prop up their house band yet again and finances a UConn acquisition but I don't see it happening. Likewise, I suppose ND could decide to join in full but if they can sit back and wait for clear winners and losers in the conference wars before committing, why wouldn't they?

Most of the ACC moves have been reactionary without a well thought out plan. UCONN to the ACC would be reactionary on their part because they always felt UCONN would be there if they needed us. Well, if we could come off the table, they might react, money be damned due to the NYC argument and the fact that BC is dying on the vine......

 

[dwalks93]

The smart move for the ACC would be to grab UConn now and either force ND's hand (not likely) or add Cincy as well. Those additions would significantly hinder the Big12's aspirations for a network. It would also allow the ACC to gain a closer foothold in the NYC market. Finally, adding UConn would increase a regional rivalry with BC which might help breath some life into BC's dying program. Boston could still be a valuable market but the ACC needs to increase the interest there....regional rivalries help do that.

That said, the ACC appears incapable of thinking beyond this year's payout. Adding UConn will take away revenue in the short term that FSU/Clemson will receive. It is readily apparent the ACC football schools are calling the shots now and they are already crying they are not being paid enough. While adding UConn might prevent the Big12 from acquiring a network and thus preserve the ACC, it will not increase the immediate ACC payout or allow it to build a network. Despite what our friendly FSU poster says, the ACC all-football schools are only in the ACC till they can make significantly more money in another conference.

What is surprising is that programs like WF, BC, Syracuse, and Pitt aren't going into full survival mode? Those school's conference future is very much in doubt if the ACC collapses. Stopping the B12 network (especially if it is moving east) should be an ACC priority but I do not think the ACC schools with options are willing to take a pay cut to keep the ACC stable.

 

[Tusky]

Why would PSU take a pay cut and go to less stable, less prestigious conference? I acknowledge that you state it as unlikely, but I'm curious as why you think it is even worth mentioning.

Woohoo! I get to indulge my dream scenario!!!

1) Pay Cut - Not as significant as you might think. First, BIG pay bump with new contract would take a significant hit losing a national draw like Penn State. Second, ACC pay bump would be huge with the addition of ND and Penn State. An ACC Network would happen and would need to be on in every major market in the Northeast. Basically, suddenly the BIG isn't getting $50 mil a year and the ACC jumps into the high $30's.

2) Less Stable - Not at all, if ND and Penn State join. No current ACC member is leaving a 16 team ACC with ND and Penn State and a network on the way. None. Stability issues are immediately fixed.

3) Less Prestigious - Academic prestige is just as solid, just more liberal arts and less research oriented. Currently a significant athletic disparity, but not as much if you add PSU and ND to the ACC. Then ACC Football has ND, PSU, FSU, Clemson, GT, Louisville, VT, Miami... Looking pretty prestigious.

People always completely dismiss Penn State to the ACC because they're comparing the current ACC to the current BIG (which is a big, big difference). BUT you should be considering the potential (and much stronger )ACC compared to the potential (and weakened) BIG.

All this is just to say that for Penn State, it's not as big of a risk/downgrade as you might think. As for motivations:
- Lots of animosity with BIG brass in recent history (Paterno etc.)
- More cultural ties to East Coast and more fans on East Coast.
- Better "rivals:" Prestige games against OSU and UM are replaced by ND, FSU, Clemson, etc. Remainder of conference schedule gets upgrade with Pitt, VT, SU and BC replacing Indiana, Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland. Much more history there.
- Better chance of returning to glory. Penn State has a tough task dominating a division with UM, MSU and Ohio State. But a division with ND, VT, BC, SU, Pitt, etc sure looks easier.

Oh, god, I need a tissue. So good. Sooooo goood. I never get to indulge that fantasy anymore...

 

[HuskyHawk]

Again, far from an expert, but I really don't think you can underestimate ND's value. It's a must-carry school. They MUST be on tv every week, because they're going to reliably get great ratings. Even for the BIG, this means huge value because you're not just talking the value of ND in tier 1. On weeks with OSU-UM or MSU-UM, the ND game is going to drop down the tiers but still going to kill it in the ratings.

That's the type of value that increases the carriage fees for the BTN. ND playing 3 games a year on the BTN means the BIG actually gets a full $1 per subscriber in NYC, and likely gets even more than $1 through the rest of the BIG.

And again, forget 2025 for ND to move. They have more money than God and could get out of the ACC obligation without batting an eye.

Edit: Oh, and it's also a guaranteed sellout for every team in the BIG, with great local marketing. Teams like Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Northwestern, Rutgers, Maryland and Minnesota would welcome that in a heartbeat. Way more than UVa, VT or someone similar.

Nobody doubts ND's value. But don't pretend that this is about football. No ND football game would ever be carried on the BTN or any similar league network. These networks mostly showcase the lower tier teams in basketball, along with the Olympic sports. Hockey, soccer, baseball, women's basketball, gymnastics, track etc. Notre Dame's value isn't really tied to a league network.

UConn on the other hand, is a dream school for these networks, as it has solid teams in soccer and baseball, and a women's basketball team that is literally the only program that moves the needle, and it does so in a big way. UConn in the Big XII would triple the ratings of OU vs Baylor women's basketball. That's the reality...it lifts everyone.

 

[dwalks93]

Woohoo! I get to indulge my dream scenario!!!

1) Pay Cut - Not as significant as you might think. First, BIG pay bump with new contract would take a significant hit losing a national draw like Penn State. Second, ACC pay bump would be huge with the addition of ND and Penn State. An ACC Network would happen and would need to be on in every major market in the Northeast. Basically, suddenly the BIG isn't getting $50 mil a year and the ACC jumps into the high $30's.

2) Less Stable - Not at all, if ND and Penn State join. No current ACC member is leaving a 16 team ACC with ND and Penn State and a network on the way. None. Stability issues are immediately fixed.

3) Less Prestigious - Academic prestige is just as solid, just more liberal arts and less research oriented. Currently a significant athletic disparity, but not as much if you add PSU and ND to the ACC. Then ACC Football has ND, PSU, FSU, Clemson, GT, Louisville, VT, Miami... Looking pretty prestigious.

People always completely dismiss Penn State to the ACC because they're comparing the current ACC to the current BIG (which is a big, big difference). BUT you should be considering the potential (and much stronger )ACC compared to the potential (and weakened) BIG.

All this is just to say that for Penn State, it's not as big of a risk/downgrade as you might think. As for motivations:
- Lots of animosity with BIG brass in recent history (Paterno etc.)
- More cultural ties to East Coast and more fans on East Coast.
- Better "rivals:" Prestige games against OSU and UM are replaced by ND, FSU, Clemson, etc. Remainder of conference schedule gets upgrade with Pitt, VT, SU and BC replacing Indiana, Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland. Much more history there.
- Better chance of returning to glory. Penn State has a tough task dominating a division with UM, MSU and Ohio State. But a division with ND, VT, BC, SU, Pitt, etc sure looks easier.

Oh, god, I need a tissue. So good. Sooooo goood. I never get to indulge that fantasy anymore...

Ummm, if you are counting on PSU leaving the BIG (which is the current model for conference success) and ND joining a conference (the same ND who has single handed undermined 2 conferences) to save the ACC then I do not like the ACC's prospects. The Pope intervening on BC's behalf seems a more likely miracle.

The ACC let its flagship schools walk...acquiring one back from the BIG seems farfetched.

 

[businesslawyer]

I'm with you and generally I agree with you. But I think you might be overstating the addition of a second local team in a market like NYC or DC. Getting carriage is based on local teams, but I'm not so sure subscription fees and advertising dollars is as dependent.

I'm not an expert, but I follow these things and live in NYC, so let's use that as an example, from the perspective of the BIG.
- Rutgers, the local team, guaranteed BTN carriage in the DMA.
- If subscription and advertising is based on local interest, in NYC there are probably similar amounts of Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, and Michigan State fans as Rutgers, UConn and 'Cuse fans. The NYC BTN carriage fees are now based on the demand for all BIG content in NYC, which is already huge. Adding another local team like 'Cuse or UConn would increase local interest, but only by a small percentage, probably not significantly impacting the price per unit. It's not like adding UConn would suddenly double the local interest in BIG content in NYC, as though only considering Rutgers the current draw. This is essentially businesslawyers point about transient fan bases.

That's just why I'm not sure there's as much value to the BIG to add UConn to an already established NYC market (though CT is a draw in and of itself), or VT/UVa to the DC market (though again, local VA is a draw in and of itself). But those smaller draws are on a totally different scale than the initial additions of Maryland and Rutgers.

With all of that said, UConn to the Big12 is a totally different equation. That brings carriage for a B12N in NYC. That's a whole different level of value.

Your point about UConn's value to the Big Ten is one that I agree with and have said repeatedly. Our value to the Big Ten and the ACC is not about getting a foot in the NYC market -- it's about trying to become the dominant brand in the NYC market, and keeping a competitor from having a dominant brand in the NYC market

 

[CL82]

Woohoo! I get to indulge my dream scenario!!!

1) Pay Cut - Not as significant as you might think. First, BIG pay bump with new contract would take a significant hit losing a national draw like Penn State. Second, ACC pay bump would be huge with the addition of ND and Penn State. An ACC Network would happen and would need to be on in every major market in the Northeast. Basically, suddenly the BIG isn't getting $50 mil a year and the ACC jumps into the high $30's.

2) Less Stable - Not at all, if ND and Penn State join. No current ACC member is leaving a 16 team ACC with ND and Penn State and a network on the way. None. Stability issues are immediately fixed.

3) Less Prestigious - Academic prestige is just as solid, just more liberal arts and less research oriented. Currently a significant athletic disparity, but not as much if you add PSU and ND to the ACC. Then ACC Football has ND, PSU, FSU, Clemson, GT, Louisville, VT, Miami... Looking pretty prestigious.

People always completely dismiss Penn State to the ACC because they're comparing the current ACC to the current BIG (which is a big, big difference). BUT you should be considering the potential (and much stronger )ACC compared to the potential (and weakened) BIG.

All this is just to say that for Penn State, it's not as big of a risk/downgrade as you might think. As for motivations:
- Lots of animosity with BIG brass in recent history (Paterno etc.)
- More cultural ties to East Coast and more fans on East Coast.
- Better "rivals:" Prestige games against OSU and UM are replaced by ND, FSU, Clemson, etc. Remainder of conference schedule gets upgrade with Pitt, VT, SU and BC replacing Indiana, Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland. Much more history there.
- Better chance of returning to glory. Penn State has a tough task dominating a division with UM, MSU and Ohio State. But a division with ND, VT, BC, SU, Pitt, etc sure looks easier.

Oh, god, I need a tissue. So good. Sooooo goood. I never get to indulge that fantasy anymore...

I like it!!

Along the same lines here's my plan to save the AAC:

1. The following programs to join the AAC (listed by annual football revenue):

1 Texas Football $103,813,684
2 Michigan Football $85,209,247
3 Alabama Football $82,302,856
4 Auburn Football $77,170,241
5 Georgia Football $74,989,418
6 Florida Football $74,317,435
7 Louisiana State Football $69,427,009
8 Notre Dame Football $68,986,659
9 Arkansas Football $64,193,826
10 Ohio State Football $63,866,161
11 Oklahoma Football $59,825,653
​

2) Have everyone else but UConn leave.

3) Why would these programs join? Well these are the highest grossing football programs in the nation (and UConn.) Their media contract would be the highest in the nation!

4) Academic prestige? Look with the mega billions they'd be making they can afford to subsidize their academic side. Think about all the good that they will be able to do with near unlimited resources! It would be the new standard.

5) Now I'm sure that people will dismiss this as ludicrous, but that's because they are analyzing these teams joining the current American. If all these teams joined, the new American would be the defining powerhouse conference to which all others aspire.

Genius right? Or maybe I'm just talking out my ass about a scenario that is based upon people abandoning their own interests to buck up a weak sister conference.

 

[TerryD]

Notre Dame's greatest support is in the Midwest and Northeast. The B1G was eager for Notre Dame when they had no east coast presence, but having proven that they can capture eastern cable markets without Notre Dame, I expect that UConn + UVa or Va Tech would bring more money than any Notre Dame +1 combination at this point.

Notre Dame is hugely valuable to the ACC, but is the ACC able to generate enough money to entice Notre Dame to join without giving them a preferential deal, which could destabilize the conference?

B12 and SEC must be unattractive to Notre Dame.

Notre Dame's ACC deal delays a decision until 2025, but by that time the B1G may be unavailable to them and they'll be down to one bidder. If independence isn't working, then they may have to go in to the ACC on the same terms as BC. That would be quite a come down.

Thank you for your interest in Notre Dame athletics...

 

[CL82]

Thank you for your interest in Notre Dame athletics...

Well played Terry.

 

[Seaa Blue]

Again, far from an expert, but I really don't think you can underestimate ND's value high maintenance cost. .

FIFY

 

[BoatShow]

did I just read?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Can someone just delete the last 5 pages of this thread?

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Woohoo! I get to indulge my dream scenario!!!

1) Pay Cut - Not as significant as you might think. First, BIG pay bump with new contract would take a significant hit losing a national draw like Penn State. Second, ACC pay bump would be huge with the addition of ND and Penn State. An ACC Network would happen and would need to be on in every major market in the Northeast. Basically, suddenly the BIG isn't getting $50 mil a year and the ACC jumps into the high $30's.

2) Less Stable - Not at all, if ND and Penn State join. No current ACC member is leaving a 16 team ACC with ND and Penn State and a network on the way. None. Stability issues are immediately fixed.

3) Less Prestigious - Academic prestige is just as solid, just more liberal arts and less research oriented. Currently a significant athletic disparity, but not as much if you add PSU and ND to the ACC. Then ACC Football has ND, PSU, FSU, Clemson, GT, Louisville, VT, Miami... Looking pretty prestigious.

People always completely dismiss Penn State to the ACC because they're comparing the current ACC to the current BIG (which is a big, big difference). BUT you should be considering the potential (and much stronger )ACC compared to the potential (and weakened) BIG.

All this is just to say that for Penn State, it's not as big of a risk/downgrade as you might think. As for motivations:
- Lots of animosity with BIG brass in recent history (Paterno etc.)
- More cultural ties to East Coast and more fans on East Coast.
- Better "rivals:" Prestige games against OSU and UM are replaced by ND, FSU, Clemson, etc. Remainder of conference schedule gets upgrade with Pitt, VT, SU and BC replacing Indiana, Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland. Much more history there.
- Better chance of returning to glory. Penn State has a tough task dominating a division with UM, MSU and Ohio State. But a division with ND, VT, BC, SU, Pitt, etc sure looks easier.

Oh, god, I need a tissue. So good. Sooooo goood. I never get to indulge that fantasy anymore...

Tusky, it appears that you got a hold of the monologue the Big East threw around from 2006 until ND finally departed: "ND will need to join a conference at some point and as they already play other sports here, we will be their football home. Once they join it will be easy to get Penn St to join and then we'll be the equal of any conference!"

I've seen this story before. It only ends well for ND.

 

[FDNY99]

Tusky, it appears that you got a hold of the monologue the Big East threw around from 2006 until ND finally departed: "ND will need to join a conference at some point and as they already play other sports here, we will be their football home. Once they join it will be easy to get Penn St to join and then we'll be the equal of any conference!"

I've seen this story before. It only ends well for ND.

BC fans weren't around for the ND screw job the BE got. IMHO this time around they will get a up close/personal experience.

 

[Ha Who]

ND going full in the ACC would be a positive development for us of course, as it would increase the likelihood they need team 16.

You are forgetting rule uno

 

[CallMeBruce]

You are forgetting rule uno

No one has forgotten it since all of you creative geniuses post the same garbage over and over again all the time. Quick, say 20 minutes and then tell me that we're going to get a tourney ban for UNC's infractions.