Non-Key Tweets

[CL82]

Oh crap, you are right. That’s the illegal kick game. I’ve been celebrating the 4th a little early. The point still stands, though.

Congratulations, this is the 25,000th post in this thread. That it was made by a Michigan fan and not related to a tweet, non-key or otherwise, seems oddly appropriate.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Irish Fans like to hold to that story, but the truth is something different. Notre Dame has not joined The B1G or any conference because they haven't needed to do so. They can still get a comparable media deal to The P2, maintain homes for all of their non-revenue sports across different conferences, and brand themselves as independent in football. Maybe most important of all is that there are no real barriers to playoff inclusion.

If The ACC falls apart over the next few years, its far more likely that The Irish will negotiate a similar partial membership deal with The Big 12 before going all in with The B1G or SEC. Why I believe that the old Anti-Catholic Boogeyman story is nonsense in 2024 is because I've sat in The Pegula Ice Arena and watched players wearing golden helmets with ND on their chest skate up and down the ice. The funny thing was that on those same uniforms there was a patch that read B1G. When it is mutually beneficial or entirely necessary that is when we'll see ND Football in a conference.

Of course. If it is in their best interest to join, they will. Until then, they won't.

 

[billybud]

Notre Dame will only join a conference when absolutely, beyond a doubt, necessary.

And it may be coming necessary in a P2 and "others" world...but the Domers will hold out until that becomes a near reality.

Back in 1999:

Notre Dame was offered by the Big Ten and the Irish students and alumni adamantly opposed such a move.

The University of Notre Dame’s Board of Trustees decided Friday the private school will not join the Big Ten, ending months of speculation that Notre Dame could become the conference’s 12th member.

“Notre Dame has a distinct identity that is the product of more than a century-and-a-half of institutional independence,” Malloy said. “As a Catholic university with a national constituency, we believe independence continues to be our best way forward, not just in athletics, but, first and foremost, in fulfillment of our academic aspirations.”

Charles Lennon, the director of Notre Dame's alumni association, said that 99.5 percent of its members were against a change. University officers agreed and recommended to the 55-man board of trustees that the status quo be maintained.

Times do change...we'll see.

 

[Kolumbo]

Notre Dame will only join a conference when absolutely, beyond a doubt, necessary.

And it may be coming necessary in a P2 and "others" world...but the Domers will hold out until that becomes a near reality.

Back in 1999:

Notre Dame was offered by the Big Ten and the Irish students and alumni adamantly opposed such a move.

The University of Notre Dame’s Board of Trustees decided Friday the private school will not join the Big Ten, ending months of speculation that Notre Dame could become the conference’s 12th member.

“Notre Dame has a distinct identity that is the product of more than a century-and-a-half of institutional independence,” Malloy said. “As a Catholic university with a national constituency, we believe independence continues to be our best way forward, not just in athletics, but, first and foremost, in fulfillment of our academic aspirations.”



Times do change...we'll see.

Yes times do change so who knows.

"Academic aspirations?" I suppose ND could have declined AAU too. 1999 was a quarter century ago and things have changed just a tad since then.

 

[Ldandy]

Notre Dame will only join a conference when absolutely, beyond a doubt, necessary.

And it may be coming necessary in a P2 and "others" world...but the Domers will hold out until that becomes a near reality.

Back in 1999:

Notre Dame was offered by the Big Ten and the Irish students and alumni adamantly opposed such a move.

The University of Notre Dame’s Board of Trustees decided Friday the private school will not join the Big Ten, ending months of speculation that Notre Dame could become the conference’s 12th member.

“Notre Dame has a distinct identity that is the product of more than a century-and-a-half of institutional independence,” Malloy said. “As a Catholic university with a national constituency, we believe independence continues to be our best way forward, not just in athletics, but, first and foremost, in fulfillment of our academic aspirations.”



Times do change...we'll see.

JMO but it will be a long time before we see ND in one of the P2 Conferences. As long as NBC is willing to prop them up financially and the organizing body in place is willing to give them access to the playoff, they will remain "independent." This may mean glomming onto The Big 12 or whatever The PAC will be in the future, but they seem determined to maintain their identity.

 

[billybud]

JMO but it will be a long time before we see ND in one of the P2 Conferences. As long as NBC is willing to prop them up financially and the organizing body in place is willing to give them access to the playoff, they will remain "independent." This may mean glomming onto The Big 12 or whatever The PAC will be in the future, but they seem determined to maintain their identity.

I agree. Of course I am one of those mossy backs remembering Notre Dame's past.

The valedictorian of my class (1964) went to Notre Dame...

My father went to Michigan....I still raise a glass and nod...as I cheer against Ohio State. No real emotion attached...just in remembrance.

 

[billybud]

For an interesting read (including the comments)...

Notre Dame Football: The Case for Joining the Big 10​

The Case for Notre Dame to join the Big 10

Old enemies, future friends?

www.onefootdown.com

 

[Ldandy]

For an interesting read (including the comments)...

Notre Dame Football: The Case for Joining the Big 10​

The Case for Notre Dame to join the Big 10

Old enemies, future friends?

www.onefootdown.com

Comment section was WAY more logical than I thought possible. I expected a lot of bluster and hate regarding events that took place before most message board posters' parents were born, however there were many people looking at where the game is heading and taking a realistic not idealistic approach.

 

[HuskyinWRNY]

My take is that there indeed was anti-Catholic bias by at least some in the Big Ten back in the 1930-40s, lead by Fielding Yost, head football coach and AD of Michigan. So Notre Dame could not join the Big Ten then. Naturally, there was still bitterness after Yost died and the Big Ten were in a position to accept Notre Dame. So Notre Dame remained independent, and it became part of their identity. As time went on, it wasn’t feasible to remain independent in most sports, but remained independent in football.

Today they are independent in name only with football. The ghost of Fielding Yost is long gone. The Big Ten has pursued Notre Dame a couple of times since the 1990s. Notre Dame faculty and administration warmed up to the idea, but not so much the fans and influential donors. While there are some that still harbor bitterness that is silly at this point, a lot of fans simply hold on to the tradition, identity, and that Notre Dame has fared well in football and financially. When the last vestige of independence no longer serves Notre Dame, they will go full in with the Big Ten or some other conference.

If the Irish joined a conference they wouldn't win enough games to be a playoff team. That's why they stay independent. That and the $ the earn from NBC.

 

[UConnJim]

If the Irish joined a conference they wouldn't win enough games to be a playoff team. That's why they stay independent. That and the $ the earn from NBC.

I think this is the right take. Notre Dame plays middle of the road schedules so going 10-2/9-3 is tough, but not that big of a reach. Look at last year's schedule. Tough games against Ohio State, USC, Louisville, and Clemson and went 1-3.

As a side note, with conference expansion, fans are going to have to adjust to their school taking more losses. Look at Florida's schedule this season: Miami, Samford, Texas A&M, @Miss. St., UCF, @Tennessee, @Kentucky, Georgia, @Texas, LSU, Ole Miss, @Florida St. 6-6 against that schedule would be a really good year.

 

[billybud]

With an expanded CFP in 2025… teams may beef up their SOS to vie for a non conference champion spot.

FSU, in 2025, opens with Alabama and Texas A&M back to back…also has Miami, Florida, Clemson, VT, NC State, Stanford, Pitt

 

[Kolumbo]

When college football had the P5 and G5, ND was just one more team on top of 64 or so. If the P2 is 36 programs or so, I don't understand why they would continue to give ND preferential treatment. Who cares if ND is left out when programs like FSU, Clemson, Miami, Va Tech, ASU, Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Okie State, TCU, West Virginia are left out. ND's prestige will certainly drop because the P2 are more national conferences now. And ND doesn't win championships anymore.

 

[dayooper]

When college football had the P5 and G5, ND was just one more team on top of 64 or so. If the P2 is 36 programs or so, I don't understand why they would continue to give ND preferential treatment. Who cares if ND is left out when programs like FSU, Clemson, Miami, Va Tech, ASU, Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Okie State, TCU, West Virginia are left out. ND's prestige will certainly drop because the P2 are more national conferences now. And ND doesn't win championships anymore.

They will give them preferential treatment so they aren’t pushed to the Big10 or SEC. Neither wants ND to go to the other conference. If they are forced to choose, one conference will have to deal with ND drawing eyes to the other. Keeping status quo is the safest option for both.

 

[HuskyDogArt]

Loathe to ask question of someone who thinks winning a championship in 1988 makes them relevant. Hartford once had a Major League Baseball team

And an NFL and NHL team.

 

[billybud]

Notre Dame is desired because folks watch them play...

In 2023...they were #10 most watched....

Top 10 in viewers:

Alabama,,,Ohio State...Colorado...Georgia...Michigan...Tennessee...Oregon...Texas...FSU...Notre Dame

 

[TerryD]

I don't understand what's their problem with the B1G? That seems like the perfect spot for them smack dab in the middle of the conference footprint. I mean they're a stone's throw from MSU, Michigan, Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern, Illinois, and even Ohio State. They are in the middle of the country and even with the coast to coast nature of the B1G, travel would be relatively easy for them because they'd never be more than a 3 hour flight from any of the schools. And the B1G pays well. I don't get it.

ND doesn't want to join a football conference, any conference, ever.

It is a long story and is tied to ND's particular history.

ND wants independence for independence sake. ND thinks it is central to the identity of the school, not just the football program.

ND thinks that being a football independent is best for the brand...of both the football team and the school itself.

ND describes it as being part of ND's DNA.

It simply sees no reason to give that up to join a football conference, any football conference.

To directly answer your question, four or five generations of ND fans are taught from birth that the Big Ten tried to smother ND's football program, first by rejecting it, then by trying to organize a boycott of it.

That led to Knute Rockne coming up with the novel idea of barnstorming all over the country as an independent.

Since then, the Big Ten has tried to end ND's independence and "checkmate" it into joining the conference against its will. It is still doing that.

So, there is a long standing, deep abiding hatred and distrust of the Big Ten by ND people.

 

[TerryD]

Notre Dame will only join a conference when absolutely, beyond a doubt, necessary.

And it may be coming necessary in a P2 and "others" world...but the Domers will hold out until that becomes a near reality.

Back in 1999:

Notre Dame was offered by the Big Ten and the Irish students and alumni adamantly opposed such a move.

The University of Notre Dame’s Board of Trustees decided Friday the private school will not join the Big Ten, ending months of speculation that Notre Dame could become the conference’s 12th member.

“Notre Dame has a distinct identity that is the product of more than a century-and-a-half of institutional independence,” Malloy said. “As a Catholic university with a national constituency, we believe independence continues to be our best way forward, not just in athletics, but, first and foremost, in fulfillment of our academic aspirations.”



Times do change...we'll see.

Father Malloy also said this then:

"The decision, Father Malloy explained, ultimately hinged on the institutional identity of Notre Dame. “Just as the Universities of Michigan or Wisconsin or Illinois have core identities as the flagship institutions of their states, so Notre Dame has a core identity, and at that core are these characteristics–Catholic, private, independent,”

Catholic, private, independent. ND still sees this as the Holy Trinity of its identity as a school.

Notre Dame to Remain Independent

fightingirish.com

 

[TerryD]

They will give them preferential treatment so they aren’t pushed to the Big10 or SEC. Neither wants ND to go to the other conference. If they are forced to choose, one conference will have to deal with ND drawing eyes to the other. Keeping status quo is the safest option for both.

ND knows this and has been very adept at this.

 

[TerryD]

Loathe to ask question of someone who thinks winning a championship in 1988 makes them relevant. Hartford once had a Major League Baseball team

No, I don't think that makes ND relevant.

I think that ND is relevant because it has gone 73-17 recently, earned two playoff berths, and has won more games in this decade, during the past ten years and over the past forty years than all but five or six other schools.

I think ND is relevant because it was #3 in total revenues in the country last year as a football independent, according to EADA filings (even before the new NBC deal kicks in another $30-40 million a year).

I think ND is relevant because of its TV viewership numbers and nationwide fanbase.

I think ND is relevant because almost every game is televised by NBC or ABC. It seems like ABC picks up just about every ND away game and puts it on prime time.

Why does ABC do that? Not bad for an "irrelevant" program, no?

I think ND is relevant because if it gave up its independence, each and every conference would accept its application in about forty seconds.

If UConn went 73-17 and obtained two playoff berths, I would consider it a relevant football program, wouldn't you?

 

[billybud]

Maybe. sometimes, a program gets it right with their mascot.

Leprechauns ....are known for guarding hidden treasure, such as a pot of gold. Leprechauns are also said to be difficult to catch or trap, and are known for being cunning and trying to avoid giving up their gold.

Never trust a leprechaun...

 

[uconndogs]

Given that, I think the leprechaun is now the perfect mascot for what constitutes college football today.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Notre Dame will only join a conference when absolutely, beyond a doubt, necessary.

And it may be coming necessary in a P2 and "others" world...but the Domers will hold out until that becomes a near reality.

Back in 1999:

Notre Dame was offered by the Big Ten and the Irish students and alumni adamantly opposed such a move.

The University of Notre Dame’s Board of Trustees decided Friday the private school will not join the Big Ten, ending months of speculation that Notre Dame could become the conference’s 12th member.

“Notre Dame has a distinct identity that is the product of more than a century-and-a-half of institutional independence,” Malloy said. “As a Catholic university with a national constituency, we believe independence continues to be our best way forward, not just in athletics, but, first and foremost, in fulfillment of our academic aspirations.”



Times do change...we'll see.

Notre Dame is not in the normal world where a $10-20 million jump in media money is enticing them .
They have other income sources that well exceed $100,000,000.
Their thinking is a good potion of that revenue is due to their Independence and the mystique it gives them.
Being a 3rd or 4th place team in any conference will hurt their image more than any other team.especially among donors.
In the minds of the people in charge , if conference membership may jeopardize that money , the risk outweigh the benefits , so why fix what isn’t broken.
Independence isn’t about anything other than money
like all decisions in sports.?

 

[billybud]

One thing that may impact the Irish is the new CFP...

The four highest rated conference champs receive a bye and move straight to the quarter finals.

Notre Dame will never have a bye in the playoff.

• The eight teams seeded No. 5-12 will play in a first round with the higher seeds hosting the lower seeds either on campus or at other sites designated by the higher-seeded institution (No. 12 at No. 5, No. 11 at No. 6, No. 10 at No. 7 and No. 9 at No. 8.).

 

[huskymedic]

One thing that may impact the Irish is the new CFP...

The four highest rated conference champs receive a bye and move straight to the quarter finals.

Notre Dame will never have a bye in the playoff.

• The eight teams seeded No. 5-12 will play in a first round with the higher seeds hosting the lower seeds either on campus or at other sites designated by the higher-seeded institution (No. 12 at No. 5, No. 11 at No. 6, No. 10 at No. 7 and No. 9 at No. 8.).

One can argue that ND not having a Conference Championship game to navigate makes the bye less important - the ability to host a home game in $outh Bend is important tho’