OT: Non Husky Topic. If you think Michael Jordan was the GOAT.....

[freescooter]

Jordan was in baseball shape when he lost to Orlando. In his winning prime, he never really lost.

And yes, Jordan didn't win his first 7 years or so in the NBA. Tho you can make the argument he was a better player in his early years than his winning prime. But people only count rings these days, despite it being a team effort to get rings.

Did Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum suddenly get better? I'm sure they did. But you add all star Jrue, all star Porzingis, and you get rings.

And I am a Knicks fan so I always root for MJ to lose.

I remember reading a piece debating who was the best player Bird, Magic or Jordan. I think it was in SI. There were a couple of guys writing in defense of Bird or Magic. They all agreed that Michael didn’t even belong in the conversation. I remember one guy wrote “ why is Michael Jordan even in the conversation?” He emerged as the guy later.

 

[nomar]

Is that true? I've never heard that before.

Not sure if you’re being facetious (because I’ve watched about a thousand videos about Bird’s trash talking) but assuming your aren’t: yes, he did.

X-Man tells a great story but he did it multiple times.

https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/n...s-the-great-larry-bird-was-jusuthless-bastard

 

[UofCT]

If it wasn’t for him Scottie Pippen would’ve been Jaden McDaniels.

Explain 1994 then

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Not sure if you’re being facetious (because I’ve watched about a thousand videos about Bird’s trash talking) but assuming your aren’t: yes, he did.

X-Man tells a great story but he did it multiple times.

https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/n...s-the-great-larry-bird-was-jusuthless-bastard

Yeah I was being sarcastic. I'm not sure I've ever seen a video of people talking about Bird without bringing that up.

 

[TheChamps990411]

The man retired over 20 years ago and the only people debating if hes the goat are haters. I dont count todays kids because they simply dont know no better so im ok with them saying lebron or even kobe. Its cute.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

The man retired over 20 years ago and the only people debating if hes the goat are haters. I dont count todays kids because they simply dont know no better so im ok with them saying lebron or even kobe. Its cute.

Jordan fans yap about LeBron til the cows come home, stop acting like it’s only him lol

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Explain 1994 then

Oh we’re on the same team here.

 

[superjohn]

The 1994 Bulls won 55 games WITHOUT MJ. Explain that.

Yep and they were 34-31 the following season until Jordan came back and they went 13-4 to close out the regular season. The following season they were 72-10 with Jordan.

93-94 Horace and Pippen had career years, BJ Armstrong was an all-star, Toni finally came over from Croatia, Pete Myers was a great pickup for defense as was adding the 7 foot centers Longley and Wennington. Steve Kerr was brought in and knocked down threes.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Yep and they were 34-31 the following season until Jordan came back and they went 13-4 to close out the regular season. The following season they were 72-10 with Jordan.

93-94 Horace and Pippen had career years, BJ Armstrong was an all-star, Toni finally came over from Croatia, Pete Myers was a great pickup for defense as was adding the 7 foot centers Longley and Wennington. Steve Kerr was brought in and knocked down threes.

FWIW that was also the in between year of Grant and Rodman.

Crazy to think without Jordan and those guys they were still an above .500 team. They were so well constructed.

 

[UofCT]

FWIW that was also the in between year of Grant and Rodman.

Crazy to think without Jordan and those guys they were still an above .500 team. They were so well constructed.

They were a great team without MJ which isn’t talked about enough. If you add in all the fake stats one has to really review if MJ was indeed the greatest.

 

[UConnSwag11]

The league in the 90’s was much, much deeper than the last 10-15 years. Both East and West were stacked

 

[navery12]

I can live with anyone arguing for MJ or LeBron, there's reasonable arguments for either one. But anyone bringing Kobe up should lose their internet and basketball watching privileges for a minimum of 25 years

 

[FfldCntyFan]

The league in the 90’s was much, much deeper than the last 10-15 years. Both East and West were stacked

I've heard people claim this for quite a few years but having lived through that period as an adult I am quite skeptical.

Who were the 'stacked' teams from the east?

The Knicks? They were the most significant rivals for quite a few years but who was their second best player (after Ewing)? Starks? Oakley? Mason? There was a very run of the mill supporting cast along side the one true star.

The Pacers? Yes, they surpassed the Knicks as that decade moved forward but who after Miller was really a difference maker? Smits? Jackson?

The Magic? Yes, they did briefly have Shaq and Penny and yes, they did actually knock the Bulls off one year, but that doesn't count (because any season that MJ didn't win a title gets disqualified). Additionally once that team started reaching an experience level where they could be a legitimate threat Shaq left for the Lakers. Penny's injuries didn't help matters any as the 94-95 season was really the last one where he wasn't at a minimum somewhat limited.

 

[UConnSwag11]

I've heard people claim this for quite a few years but having lived through that period as an adult I am quite skeptical.

Who were the 'stacked' teams from the east?

The Knicks? They were the most significant rivals for quite a few years but who was their second best player (after Ewing)? Starks? Oakley? Mason? There was a very run of the mill supporting cast along side the one true star.

The Pacers? Yes, they surpassed the Knicks as that decade moved forward but who after Miller was really a difference maker? Smits? Jackson?

The Magic? Yes, they did briefly have Shaq and Penny and yes, they did actually knock the Bulls off one year, but that doesn't count (because any season that MJ didn't win a title gets disqualified). Additionally once that team started reaching an experience level where they could be a legitimate threat Shaq left for the Lakers. Penny's injuries didn't help matters any as the 94-95 season was really the last one where he wasn't at a minimum somewhat limited.

Add in Pistons,Heat, Lakers, Blazers, Spurs, Rockets.

 

[UConnSwag11]

They were a great team without MJ which isn’t talked about enough. If you add in all the fake stats one has to really review if MJ was indeed the greatest.

Do we ignore all the help LeBron had to move to get? Does an organization get punished for doing what they should do - draft and trade?

 

[UConnSwag11]

Jordan fans yap about LeBron til the cows come home, stop acting like it’s only him lol

Only because of ESPN

 

[UConnSwag11]

Not sure Jordan and the Bulls would lose to AARP All-star teams - Celtics, Mavs, and Spurs

 

[UConnSwag11]

Not sure if you’re being facetious (because I’ve watched about a thousand videos about Bird’s trash talking) but assuming your aren’t: yes, he did.

X-Man tells a great story but he did it multiple times.

https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/n...s-the-great-larry-bird-was-jusuthless-bastard

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Add in Pistons,Heat, Lakers, Blazers, Spurs, Rockets.

Who did the Pistons have during the years the Bulls won championships? The Heat?

When did the Lakers, Blazers, Spurs or Rockets play in the east?

What did the Spurs really have (and what did the Lakers really have left) when the Bulls won championships?

 

[Scoe]

Who did the Pistons have during the years the Bulls won championships? The Heat?

When did the Lakers, Blazers, Spurs or Rockets play in the east?

What did the Spurs really have (and what did the Lakers really have left) when the Bulls won championships?

Someone’s a nit picker.

 

[UofCT]

Do we ignore all the help LeBron had to move to get? Does an organization get punished for doing what they should do - draft and trade?

Why are you bringing up Lebron lol?

 

[Inyatkin]

Do we ignore all the help LeBron had to move to get? Does an organization get punished for doing what they should do - draft and trade?

I'm not sure exactly what this means, but a fun game to play is to try to name the best player LeBron had as a teammate in his first run in Cleveland. Mo Williams? An old Shaq? Donyell Marshall? Truly a murderer's row

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I'm not sure exactly what this means, but a fun game to play is to try to name the best player LeBron had as a teammate in his first run in Cleveland. Mo Williams? An old Shaq? Donyell Marshall? Truly a murderer's row

Regardless of where anyone places different players on their all time lists, certain exceptional accomplishments should be recognized.

When Moses brought a very pedestrian Rockets team to the NBA finals in 1981 I thought I would never see anything like that again yet Lebron did it twice, the first time and the last time that he took the Cavs to the finals.

In each of those three cases, if you were to replace that one player with the third or fourth best player in the league at his position (center in Malone's case, small forward in Lebron's), you would have a 25 won team, not an NBA finals contender.

There may be quite a bit to criticize, but praise worthy accomplishments should also be recognized.

 

[superjohn]

I've heard people claim this for quite a few years but having lived through that period as an adult I am quite skeptical.

Who were the 'stacked' teams from the east?

The Knicks? They were the most significant rivals for quite a few years but who was their second best player (after Ewing)? Starks? Oakley? Mason? There was a very run of the mill supporting cast along side the one true star.

The Pacers? Yes, they surpassed the Knicks as that decade moved forward but who after Miller was really a difference maker? Smits? Jackson?

The Magic? Yes, they did briefly have Shaq and Penny and yes, they did actually knock the Bulls off one year, but that doesn't count (because any season that MJ didn't win a title gets disqualified). Additionally once that team started reaching an experience level where they could be a legitimate threat Shaq left for the Lakers. Penny's injuries didn't help matters any as the 94-95 season was really the last one where he wasn't at a minimum somewhat limited.

Pacers had Miller, Smits, Derrick McKey, Mark Jackson, the Davis Boys. Later on they added guys like Mullin, Travis Best, Jalen Rose. Pistons early 90's Isiah, Dumars, Laimbeer, Rodman, Aguirre, Vinnie Johnson, James Edwards. Celtics early 90's Bird, McHale, Reggie Lewis, Parish. Cavs Mark Price, Daugherty, Nance. Those Knicks teams didn't have star power after Ewing but they were deep, physical, and played great defense. Starks, Mason, Oakley, Charles Smith, Derrick Harper, Ro Blackman. The later Knicks teams with Ewing, Oakley, Starks, Larry Johnson, Allan Houston. The Heat with Hardaway, Mourning, Mashburn.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

SJ, do you really view some of those teams (or more specifically, many of those players) as anything special? There were very few series the Bulls played in to get to the finals where they didn't seriously overmatch the opposition primarily because MJ's running mate (Pippen) was also an all time top 50 player at the time (voted to the 50th anniversary list) as well as a perennial all defensive first team player (who happened to always draw the toughest defensive assignment at the position MJ played). How many of the 'second best player on the roster' of the other teams mentioned were both in their prime during the Bulls title runs and top 50 all time players?

Also, Ro Blackmon as a Knick? Exactly how much did he play for them?