UCFBfan
Kings of New England!
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I still like Jimmy's Girls avatar but Dan's is a close second
New BE TV Deal Expected to Top $2B
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I still like Jimmy's Girls avatar but Dan's is a close second
Chin Diesel
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going
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I'm still having a hard time of ND selling to their alumni playing Iowa St, Kansas St, Kansas, Baylor, TCU, Texas, TT, Oklahoma and OSU.
Their traditional rivalries with USC, Michigan, MSU, Purdue, Navy and even BCU means more than half of them are gone.
I'm more apt to believe a pre-emtive move to the B1G or ACC. Only way I see ND going to the Big12 is if its the last option, not the first option.
Their traditional rivalries with USC, Michigan, MSU, Purdue, Navy and even BCU means more than half of them are gone.
I'm more apt to believe a pre-emtive move to the B1G or ACC. Only way I see ND going to the Big12 is if its the last option, not the first option.
ConnHuskBask
Shut Em Down!
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This. ND is the most famous football program in history.
Their alums are not going to be happy playing the teams you listed in lieu of their traditional rivals.
Unless you have to be a conference champion - they are simply not joining a league.
The Funster
What?
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ND to the Big 12 would be the ultimate mindduck and a giant kick in the nuts to the Big East.
UConnDan97
predicting undefeated seasons since 1983
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Exactly! I agree with 95% of what you just said (up until the ACC part). They will not want to part with those games, not just for the tradition, but also for the size of the audience. I've always thought that if....IF....Notre Dame joins a conference, it will be the Big10. It allows them to keep the Mich / Mich St / Purdue games, as well as being a good fit geographically, culturally, and economically. I know that ND wants to keep east coast ties, but they don't need to be in the ACC to do that.
But again, I agree with just about everything you said. It's a hard sell to the alums that the Big12 North (I'm assuming Kansas, KState, Iowa State, WVU, Oklahoma, Okla St) is the division and conference they want to be in (if the Big12 South is Texas, TCU, Fla St, Clemson, Baylor, Texas Tech, Ga Tech).
What's this "4 slots"? Is it because its fits some narrative about 16 team super conferences? Why 16? Why not 14? Why not 18? Why not just 12? The Pac-12 does not appear to be changing anytime soon. Why does the Big 10? It's going to get hard to justify it financially...
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Dann
#4hunnid
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heres my last gem for 2night as far as ct's:
i can see a time(this summer) where the b12 goes to 14 and no one else moves(until next summer or 2 away). so the acc would be miami/gt/tobacco rd/vt/va/md/cuse/pitt/bc. the whole thing is they can add ruty/uconn to get back to 14 but my argument is why should we go. it would be only a year or 2 until the big 4 goto 16, the acc would be picked apart then. if we get a b10 invite at the end of that then were gold and it didn't matter acc vs nbe. but if we don't get a b10 invite then where do u want to be? in the end this seems to be the new hot ending, i hope its dead on TRUE.
b12 + clem/fsu/lville/nd/md/gt (nd wants md for dc and gt for atl alum)
sec + vt/ncst (always talked about)
b10 + unc/uva/ruty/uconn (4 big publics that give them #1 bball and a great chunk of nyc, yankee bowl also)
pac + byu/bsu/sdsu/#schoolfromnevada (go ahead and blast me)
who gets left out of that?
miami, becuase more stuff is coming out soon from yahoo and there about to get the death penalty. they are basically a bball only now.
private schools who were dying - wake/duke/bc/cuse/pitt(yes they are not really private, then some 1 should tell them to stop acting like they are)....
up and coming publics - usf/ucf/uh/cincy/memphis/ecu....
the question is, the they combine for a 5th best conf that keeps the playoff from being exclusive anti trust wise, or do the couple private schools pack it in and go fcs and join the bball schools in a fcs fball and big time bball league. if your looking for fcs thoughts just head over to the bc board where members are voting on fcs vs killing the fball program right now. fun times.
so
Big Country Conf
uh/smu/utsa/tulane/smiss/uab/usf/ucf/ecu/tulsa/memphis/latech/temple/navy/army/mar
ACC
duke/wake/bc/cuse/pitt/nova/gtown/w&m/od/miami(one day when they get fball back)
+
sju/prov/shu/dep/marq/but or xav
Dann
#4hunnid
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nd could be in a east division of the b12
fsu/clem/wvu/lville/md/gt/tcu or baylor would be there yearly division games. thats not ist/kan....they would prob get a auto cross game of playing texas on tgiving day or weekend also. thats a great schedule for them.
west-tex/tt/ok/okst/kan/kst/ist/1 of baylor or tcu
east-nd/wvu/fsu/clem/gt/lville/md/1 of baylor or tcu
Dann
#4hunnid
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16 is common belief. i hold out that the next tv contract years from now will drive conf's to 18 teams and 9 team division with each getting a playoof bid(8 team playoff). but who really knows....B1G made a new logo after adding #12, that G has a 6 in it. them not going to 16 seems a little wierd at this point...
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I think the more conferences that reach out to ND the longer they get to play this process out. They are not a solution to anyone's problem. They are the problem that gets in the way of anyone's long term plans. Pretty much tuned out any theory that involves them at this point because they are likely to be the last to make any move and certainly not to be counted on as a sheperd to anywhere.
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In a very strange way ND's decision to do nothing actually makes the BIG and SEC sit on their hands, and keeps a semblance of sanity in college football by allowing both the ACC and NBE to survive.
As for the BIG 12, as Cartman would say, "The Big 12 can suck my balls". Let them take FSU and Clemson and be UT's bitch for the next 10 years. I just hope that UL sticks in the NNBE (maybe by default if BIG 12 stays at 12). If it does I assume the ACC stays at 12 then SEC and BIG do nothing.
College Football is 100% better with 6 FB conferences (granted some better than others), is ND actually saving a 6 conference organization?
As for the BIG 12, as Cartman would say, "The Big 12 can suck my balls". Let them take FSU and Clemson and be UT's bitch for the next 10 years. I just hope that UL sticks in the NNBE (maybe by default if BIG 12 stays at 12). If it does I assume the ACC stays at 12 then SEC and BIG do nothing.
College Football is 100% better with 6 FB conferences (granted some better than others), is ND actually saving a 6 conference organization?
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Sometimes the most logical prediction seems like thinking out of the box. It depends on the trajectory of common wisdom at the moment. You may have something here.
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UConnDan97
predicting undefeated seasons since 1983
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With all due respect, Dan, if Notre Dame thought that was a great schedule, they would have already joined the ACC. They would have FSU / Clemson / Ga Tech / Maryland, and instead of WVU and Baylor, they would get Miami and BC; two teams that they have had history / rivalries with. So CLEARLY this is not a great schedule in ND's eyes. No matter how you slice it, outside of having OU / Texas / Okla St. / WVU / FSU / and Clemson in the same division as ND, they are not going to get excited...
Dann
#4hunnid
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nd will never join the acc becuase the acc is completely owned by ESPN tv wise. nd will never sign itself away 100% to a network like ESPN. They can play that same division mostly in the b12, get more $$ becuase the conf has tex and ok(which is more than vt/fsu as far as top tops) to pair with tv wise and keep its tier 3. huge difference.
Dann
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b10
UConnDan97
predicting undefeated seasons since 1983
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Not really. If they wanted that, they could have signed with the ACC prior to the current ESPN contract. Also, why would joining a conference with OU and Texas excite them if they might only play one of them per year in a cross-over game? Maybe a Conf. championship? You have to understand that in order to do that, ND throws away most of the following scheduled games (from this coming season):
Navy / Purdue / Michigan State / Michigan / Miami / Stanford / BYU /
The teams in bold are teams that ND will NEVER throw away. NEVER. I cannot be more clear about that. You might laugh about the Navy game being a must-have, but there is a history there. As the story goes, Navy essentially saved ND when they couldn't pay their bills by making it a Navy training facility. From that point on, ND said they would ALWAYS schedule them, even after winning like 30 in a row or whatever it was. The other games in bold are must-have rivalries, including BCU, the fellow Jesuit college.
So if that is their "out of conference" by joining the Big12, then you see how the rest of the schedule is STILL as good or better than what they would face in their division of the Big12, be it north or east.
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I actually don't know. It would depend on the package. If Swofford has a rabbit up his sleeve and can convince ND to join in all sports, and calls Herbst to be #16 (FSU and Clemson wouldn't leave in this scenario), it would be a no-brainer yes. I would hope Swofford was smart enough to have clauses up his ass in that contract with ESPN for what would happen if more teams joined. If it's UConn/RU/Cincy/USF post-FSU/Clemson plus possibly GT and/or VT bolting for the Big 12, I'm not so sure. I wouldn't be so surprised if a few calls went out to UNC, UVA, Miami, etc. to see just how much they really don't like the ACC TV deal. There's one thing Swofford was always good at and that was not playing his hand first in realignment, and working in the dark. I think he really botched it with this recent TV deal by playing his very, very mediocre hand way too soon and alienating his own members. The timing is puzzling too, it's no secret they're not exactly planning on holding firm at 14 for an eternity, so why negotiate a bad deal half way through your realignment? I don't know if it will, but it could all come back and bite him.
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Dann
#4hunnid
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i'm not follwoing u. they never needed to join a conf before, now they are being pused to join by the bcs changes. the acc redid its deal, its not a 100% new deal, the acc have exclusive right to the acc still thats why they went to a arbitrator. no other tv network could touch the acc. thats why some of us want to see what the nbe will get soon from others not named espn. nd will not allow 100% of its product to be on one network. thats just another reason why the b12 or b10 work best. both have multiple networks. b12 has espn and fox. the b10 has btn and espn...among small cbs type deals. nd wants to spread its product and possible make a tier 3 network with nbc. the acc is not the answer and never will be becuase of its tv contract.
as far as schedule. nd will always want to play navy and usc. then they can rotate years with mich and msu. if its a 9 game b12 schedule then there u go. if its 8 then then can play bc. considering what bc looks like these days, i don't think they value that easy road(really home) game in boston that highly, i wouldn't base that game off my move.
if they went b10, then usc/navy/bc or others are all good to go. usc would be built into the b10-pac thingy.
its all about how bad the acc contract is from multiple points of view. the backloaded part, the years, the tier 3, no other networks etc...
UConnDan97
predicting undefeated seasons since 1983
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I will address your points in order:
1) They haven't been pushed into a conference. They have had a representative in the talks (Swarbrick) and I am assuming that they will still have some type of tie-in when it is all said and done, since they are the biggest draw in college football, like it or not (which is why they still sit at the table).
2) Perhaps I wasn't clear enough when I typed "NEVER" in capital letters. The games I put in bold are not "nice to have" or "we would like them" or "unless there's an emergency". The games against NAVY / BC / MICH / MICH ST. / USC are NON-NEGOTIABLE!!! NON-NEGOTIABLE!!! I hope that's clear enough for you. They would have a hard enough time breaking away from games that are long-standing with tradition like Purdue and Stanford already, but the other five will NOT CHANGE!!
I hope that was clear enough this time around...
Dann
#4hunnid
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nd hasn't yet been pushed into a conf, but we are almost there. the playoff the bowls being sub'd out, other sports home etc...were almost to that point where they are best to join instead of living the indy dream. the tv contract is up in 2015. its all happening...
so how does nd keep those games while going to the acc? the acc is going to a 9 game schedule, didn't swofford claim that? 3 slots left so which of usc/navy/mich/msu gets left out? NONE acording to you so they will play 13 games cause they are special before a bowl game??? lets say the acc goes to 8 league games to make nd happy, so they join bc's division right becuase of that rival game? then that means they play ncst and wake also, wouldn't they rather play duke or unc? gt is in the other division, they want a trip to atl...is the acc going to let them completely change the divisions so 1 is extremely good and the other is brutal?
the only possible place for them is the b10 by your schedule requirements. so be it, its hard to tell if that helps or hurts uconns chances at a invite one day. i think it may hurt a bit but we will see soon enough.
i understand the navy and usc games, i have a hard time with the others being laws written into the college football book.
UConnDan97
predicting undefeated seasons since 1983
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I never said they were going to join the ACC! And you are exactly right; the only conference that allows them to continue with their traditional games is the Big10. It is what I have always claimed on multiple threads on the Boneyard; if ND joins a conference, my mortgage would be on the Big10!
And as for having a hard time understanding why the other games are written into ND's college football book.....I have a dirty little secret. Growing up, I had two favorite teams; one was in 1-AA, and the other was in 1-A. I grew up an Italian Catholic, so I will give you a guess as to whom I watched for two decades before my beloved UConn made the jump to 1-A. In order to help your guess, I was really impressed that UConn was able to get Skip Holtz as a coach.
You forced it out of me, Dan!!! I wish I was kidding, but I'm not. After UConn started to prepare for the jump to 1-A, I started to realize all of the ridiculous perks and control that ND had over college football, and it started to sicken me. Then, when I saw what they did to Tyrone Willingham, I got sicker. Then, when boosters can quickly raise millions of dollars to get rid of Charlie Weis, I said, "God I really hate them now!" Isn't it funny how life turns on you? Then I saw UConn shock them in front of Touchdown and the circle was complete...
UConnDan97
predicting undefeated seasons since 1983
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Me too, Dan. Me too...
I forgot to add "the point" to my little anecdote. My history is my "insider information" on how a Golden Domer feels about those five games. They would never willingly give them up.
I'm going to go use Lava soap, because it has pumice...
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UConnDan97
predicting undefeated seasons since 1983
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Make no mistake, though; I have no love for them anymore. My Avatar is the fifth step in a five-step program to getting clean again. Bless you, Greg Lloyd Jr.....bless you!!
CL82
NCAA Woman's Basketball National Champions
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Man it amazes me how few people understand that we are selling time around which a network can wrap commercials in markets in which their are a lot people. That has value. Man you nattering nabobs of negativity are just going to keep pissing in the Cheerios. Lighten up. The mere fact that they were there is good news in times that good news is tough to come by. Amazing, simply f ing amazing.
ND wants to leave, fine, I've always hated them. Louisville wants to take it's leg dribble on the road (which incidently I don't think will happen - too many better choices if the shit is really hitting the fan), feel free. In the end we'll be fine, maybe not positioned for 4 team playoff in the near future, but no one thought that was a possibility anyway.
Just chill. What will be will be.
ND wants to leave, fine, I've always hated them. Louisville wants to take it's leg dribble on the road (which incidently I don't think will happen - too many better choices if the shit is really hitting the fan), feel free. In the end we'll be fine, maybe not positioned for 4 team playoff in the near future, but no one thought that was a possibility anyway.
Just chill. What will be will be.
UConnDan97
predicting undefeated seasons since 1983
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It's hard to believe that just about 6 hours ago, this thread had made me an extremely happy man! I'm still hoping for great things for the NBE. And like you said, selling live airtime to a lot of people indeed has value. And in any case, UConn will rise above.
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Unfortunately, I agree with you. UConn would never get in before those schools. We simply came to the game too late.
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Even if this happened I believe the best thing would be to form a new conference in order to start over with the whole media rights deal stuff. This new conference would probably loose Miami and GTech when the Big 12 went to 16 and as many as four more if the B!G decided to expand again. I think we'd end up with BC, Cuse, Rutgers, Wake, and Pitt since I think the B!G would go for UNC, Maryland, UVA, and Duke. So it would be UConn, BC, Cuse, Pitt, Rutgers and Wake. We'd still end up adding Cincy, USF, Temple, Houston, SMU, UCF, and Memphis anyway.
Fishy
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With all respect, we are so duck*ing far from fine that it's not even worth putting "us" and "fine" in the same paragraph. There's nothing fine here and there's no good news - a conference meeting, some forced smiles and a throw-away line in a puff piece article does not constitute fine.
Unless there's some soft landing out there that has yet to materialize, we're going to be marginalized in a big, bad way - not just in terms of a four team playoff, but in access to decent bowls, prominent media coverage and despite silly fantasies to the contrary, revenue. We're not raising the UCFs and San Diego States of the world up to our perceived level, we're falling to theirs. Big Monday is not in our future.
There's a reason UConn, Louisville, Cincy and Rutgers have not stopped reaching out to other conferences. It's because they don't speak Spackler, they tend to deal in reality and they know that 'in the end' we won't be fine unless we're somewhere else. They don't want to end up pissing in a bowl of store-brand Oat-eeos because they couldn't afford Cheerios anymore.
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