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NEVER play TENN again

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When Geno was asked the question by Holly at half time, he said "every time we come down here". I take that to mean that he doesn't feel that the games in Knoxville are called fairly. So why continue to go down there.
Maybe it's time to renew the UConn/USF rivalry...:)
 
The refs were lousy, but the only incident in the game I found intolerable was Jackson's cheap shot against Edwards. And if you don't think this went on in the Summitt era, look up the incidents between Semeka Randall and Svetlana Abrosimova.
 
fomalhaut said:
The refs were lousy, but the only incident in the game I found intolerable was Jackson's cheap shot against Edwards. And if you don't think this went on in the Summitt era, look up the incidents between Semeka Randall and Svetlana Abrosimova.
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Semeka bouncing the ball off of Svet’s head was incidental, not deliberate. Svet, Semeka, and Tamika ended up being friends - there was an article about it after that season.

Tamika Catchings is, and always has been, a class act. Geno recruited her and Semeka Randall and as he once said, he doesn’t recruit jerks.
 
I’m not in favor of playing Tennessee next year or ever. Unless they get a lot better, there is nothing in it for Uconn. If UConn wins, it is just beating a lower ranked team that they are supposed to beat. If they lose, it could negatively impact NCAA seeding.
 
BBallF said:
What no one needs are games that are not controlled, managed, fairly officiated, and are physically out of control. There is a crisis in the sport going on in front of our very eyes. You are going to see a life threatening injury soon, then you are going to see a lawsuit or lawsuits, and then they may do something just like some many things the NCAA didn't do correctly in the past. They are not training and teaching their refs correctly, they are not monitoring them properly and they need new rules designed to eliminate this nonsense, and they need it yesterday. If the refs last night got called to task on that "sit down on" foul on Aaliyah it wouldn't happen again. In my view, all 3 of them should be suspended for 2 weeks. Then they would wake up. Right now, it's play at your peril.
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visitingcock said:
What?

Yes we play physical. Do we play dirty? I don’t think so. Is it a hate filled rivalry? I don’t think so. Players o. Neither side want to hurt each other and many have friendships of the court. Many will be teammates at the next level

Do you think UConn doesn’t play physical defense? They give as good as they get.

But I know Geno doesn’t share your view. He wants his players to experience playing physical ( but clean) opponents during the season so they are ready to face that style in the tourney.

I don’t like Tennessee but I certainly want US to play them every year.

Edit: if you were talking about cancelling this year, I could live with. Wouldn’t like it but we owe you for Geno’s graciousness last year. But cancelling the series? Gog forbid!
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South Carolina may be physical, but in no way would she allow some of the stuff Tennesee pulled last night. Dawn respects the game, and her teams have always played the right way.
 
Stop playing Tennessee AND Notre Dame. The teams are overly aggressive, they play in a manner that could potentially harm people.... and we can do better. NC State and South Carolina... even Duke would be good matchups now
 
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What Tennessee has in its' favor is a rabid fan base, and a tremendous history.

However, they are not a top team any more. They are barely a top 25 team, if that, and poised to drop further in the future. Warlick was a tremendous recruiter (I say she recruited circles around Harper), but was permanently stuck in the old Pat Summit coaching mold - get athletic players, one on one offense, crash the O-boards, play in your face defense. Certain parts of that plan are great, but the lack of anything resembling offense was never gonna work. And she seemingly did not have any assistants with great offensive basketball minds to fill in the areas where she was deficient.

Recruiting under Harper, however, has completely gone off the rails. Horston, and her class that went to Tennessee, was recruited by Warlick. Since then Harper's gotten exactly 1 kid in the top 15 over the last 4 recruiting cycles.
  • 2020 her top recruit was #57 Salary
  • 2021 it was #43 Puckett
  • 2022 it was #11 Pissot
  • 2023 it's a total bagel - 0 recruits
Sure she bolstered the roster with kids like Jackson (Miss State), Hollingshead (Georgia), Powell (Minny), Walker (WMU), and Franklin (Missouri State), but to have 0 recruits with at least 6 seniors on the team bodes very ill next season. Some of the kids will need to stay and use the covid year, and she'll need to clean up in the portal again, but really, if Tennessee did not have such a storied past, they would be a largely irrelevant middle of the pack team. They are living on fumes from prior greatness.

My point is unless something happens fast, they are poised to sink to the middle of the SEC pack, and potentially start being a perennial NIT invitee. So really, aside from nostalgia, there's no reason for the game. The "hype" surrounding it is old, and they are sinking fast. Frankly, I have no problem continuing to play them as I foresee 30-40 point blowouts in our mutual future should they play starting next season.

But the constant barrage of "Women's college basketball needs UCONN-Tennessee" is just silly. There are TONS of more compelling story lines including a host of new, and historical, programs vaulting towards the top.
  • How long can SC stay at the top?
  • Stanford has vaulted themselves back into the NC conversation over the past several years
  • Mulkey is making great strides at LSU
  • Schaeffer is doing exciting things at Texas
  • ND is showing they are more than Muffet McGraw
  • Lawson and the Duke story line
  • Arizona is trying to show staying power
  • North Carolina is back to being a national player
  • The Big East is stronger than ever
Geno has done so much for WCBB over the years that he has zero to prove. AND he owes WCBB nothing in the sense of "for the good of the game to play Tennessee". That's a load of cr@p. The rivalry between those 2 schools existed in part because of the coaches and in part because no one was consistently better than those 2 schools for a very long time.

New rivalries, new coaches, etc. Great players, great play, great stories, all those things make WCBB compelling. The game needs more of that and less "manufactured" circuses...
 
Can someone clarify something for me.... I did not see it here, and have not had time to read all the other post... but with like 5 minutes let in the game... didn't someone foul Edwards around the neck or head area knocking her to the ground... and wasn't it called a common foul.???? Why did they not review that???? I am still all up in arms over that one.... Can anyone help me out with this?
 
if anyone is gonna cancel the series is TENN, they benefit nothing from aside a buttwhooping. Won't be shocked if after the last series games it's donezo. It's not even the same without Pat Summit, honestly these players of today for Tenn doubt they even care or know the history of the rivalry. In it's hayday with Pat sure, but not anymore. SC is the new rival for UCONN
 
Centerstream said:
When Geno was asked the question by Holly at half time, he said "every time we come down here". I take that to mean that he doesn't feel that the games in Knoxville are called fairly. So why continue to go down there.
Maybe it's time to renew the UConn/USF rivalry...:)
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Any team, any time, any place.

To be a great team sometimes you have to beat the opponents and the officiating crew. You just do it and don't complain.

There's no crying in WBB.
 
I am so over playing ND and TN. I feel like someone gets hurt every time we go to ND and the refs try their hardest to help TN when we go there. I'm over it.

I'd like to see us go back to regular games with Stanford and I think Duke is on their way back. I'd also rather a game with Indiana than ND to keep a presence in that heavy bball state.
 
LwrcasefaN said:
If the game wants to grow, then I just can't see cutting off the roots. This game, ranking aside, just represents so much. I mean if UCONN lost every game one season except Tennessee I would call that success! I respect their program and its history, but I still feel the need to remind their fans that we're not their little sister.
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No, you’re not, but it is something to which you can aspire.
 
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CAREFUL what you ask for:

1) DePaul game (w94-51)
...Everyone loved how that was called:
....Geno - Loved it and said great officiating and that it was called like the men's game and that we need more of those.
...Boneyard - agreed vigorously and want's more too.

2) Tennessee game (w84-67)
...Geno - Loved it, NOT SO MUCH, and called out the officials
...Boneyard - agreed vigorously and want's less too.
...Boneyard - now, wants to drop Tennessee and a few others.

My take:
...Geno - needs to take a step back. I was astounded that he snarled his displeasure on National TV. Simply disgraceful!
...Boneyard - try and be more of a basketball fan

The last thing we need is to have the women's game called like the men's. Granted, Geno wants his players to go to the rim a lot more this year than previously...ala the men's game.

The beauty of the women's game is that it is more tactical and played below the rim. Love it.

[ ]
..
 
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Geno said somewhere he was sort of strong armed by ESPN when they made it the We Back Pat game. I think ESPN is the driving force behind the game and their hype of the rivalry certainly supports that thought. No question in my mind it is a money maker for ESPN and both programs, so ...meh.

I agree with the posters that mention that before the series was cancelled by Pat, it was a real rivalry as TN or Uconn had won the championship 11 of 14 years it ran and Uconn won the next two for a streak of 13 in 16 years. They trade #1 and #2 ranks most years. And the game was sort of a preview of what would come in March.

Since 2008 and the cancellation TN hasn't been to a FF and Uconn hasn't missed a FF. Not so much of a rivalry anymore. The hype is manufactured as the teams haven't met in a NCAA tournament in years. Uconn vs ND, Baylor, Stanford, and SC have certainly been much more meaningful games since 2008. You could add Lousiville and MSST as well.

I do think there is an edge to the fan interactions, not sure it carries over to the players most of who probably had just started playing basketball when the last rivalry game was played.
 
BostonCanuck said:
The outcome of that official review was a travesty. The idea that Edwards did anything approaching the severity of what Jackson did to her is utter nonsense, laid bare for all to see by the replays we got to watch from home. Plus I think the refs even lied about it, announcing that the initial call on the floor had been upheld. The initial call most certainly was not a double-intentional.

So I feel your pain. There's just never any institutional accountability or even acknowledgement for bad officiating in the college game, especially on the women's side.

I lost a lot of respect for the process after the 2018 National semi-finals, where over the course of the evening a clearly biased officiating team probably turned the game outcome in favor of Notre Dame. They called more than one phantom blocking foul on Lou, putting her in foul trouble from which the Huskies could not recover. At one point they even called a turnover on Napheesa for stepping out of bounds, when her foot was nowhere near the baseline.

Of course, we couldn't rely on ESPN to show us where her foot actually was. No, the action their replay showed was of the ref making the call. Seriously, you can't make this stuff up. Thankfully, an outraged fan later posted video from his phone on Twitter, which was linked to the post-game thread here on this board.

Geno rightly said that they changed the way the game was called in the second quarter. What he couldn't say, but what needed to be said, was that the refs succumbed to the temptation to try to even up the game and make it more exciting for the home-team fans and television viewers. Unacceptable.

But for all of that, my remedy would be to try to address the bad officiating, not to cancel the series.

For the good of the game.
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The whole 2018 FF was an officiated joke. Besides the ND UConn semi the final was also a sad day for WCBB, Mississippi State was also robbed to give the trophy to ND.
 
I'm glad we won, otherwise it would be a feat to open The Boneyard. I agree that this is no longer a rivalry game/series-- as in #1 and #2; that it isn't between coaches-- GA & Pat; Conferences-- BE vs S; and, the current players are elsewhere in their thoughts. And all are in agreement that the games should have been handled much better. I am in agreement that the action(s) of the Tenn player on AE was clearly unsportsmanlike and would have been given a different action-- were I officiating (when in doubt or when a decision would have grave consequnces for one team blame both players for the folly). That is, throwing out the Tenn player would have taken away the incredible work put in for the win by Uconn. Were this to have resulted in anything resembling a fight would have been more alarming for me. Thank goodness. I certainly understand TonyC exasperation, but am in agreement with those who have pointed out that we have and still do play in similar games (other peoples championships).
Also, it might be good for WCBB. Its a media event and is clearly medially constituted. And absent big influxs of $ to Uconn Athlectics, mediality is one general conditions within which the excellence of Uconn BB can showcase. I for one was blown away by the poise the team showed-- going up early and when Tenn came within 2-5 basically said to them here and no further. Doing that in a hostile environment is something we should like the world to see.
So TonyC, drink a cup or two of warm water, and give us your thoughts on our next pain-in-the--- .
 
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EricLA said:
What Tennessee has in its' favor is a rabid fan base, and a tremendous history.

However, they are not a top team any more. They are barely a top 25 team, if that, and poised to drop further in the future. Warlick was a tremendous recruiter (I say she recruited circles around Harper), but was permanently stuck in the old Pat Summit coaching mold - get athletic players, one on one offense, crash the O-boards, play in your face defense. Certain parts of that plan are great, but the lack of anything resembling offense was never gonna work. And she seemingly did not have any assistants with great offensive basketball minds to fill in the areas where she was deficient.

Recruiting under Harper, however, has completely gone off the rails. Horston, and her class that went to Tennessee, was recruited by Warlick. Since then Harper's gotten exactly 1 kid in the top 15 over the last 4 recruiting cycles.
  • 2020 her top recruit was #57 Salary
  • 2021 it was #43 Puckett
  • 2022 it was #11 Pissot
  • 2023 it's a total bagel - 0 recruits
Sure she bolstered the roster with kids like Jackson (Miss State), Hollingshead (Georgia), Powell (Minny), Walker (WMU), and Franklin (Missouri State), but to have 0 recruits with at least 6 seniors on the team bodes very ill next season. Some of the kids will need to stay and use the covid year, and she'll need to clean up in the portal again, but really, if Tennessee did not have such a storied past, they would be a largely irrelevant middle of the pack team. They are living on fumes from prior greatness.

My point is unless something happens fast, they are poised to sink to the middle of the SEC pack, and potentially start being a perennial NIT invitee. So really, aside from nostalgia, there's no reason for the game. The "hype" surrounding it is old, and they are sinking fast. Frankly, I have no problem continuing to play them as I foresee 30-40 point blowouts in our mutual future should they play starting next season.

But the constant barrage of "Women's college basketball needs UCONN-Tennessee" is just silly. There are TONS of more compelling story lines including a host of new, and historical, programs vaulting towards the top.
  • How long can SC stay at the top?
  • Stanford has vaulted themselves back into the NC conversation over the past several years
  • Mulkey is making great strides at LSU
  • Schaeffer is doing exciting things at Texas
  • ND is showing they are more than Muffet McGraw
  • Lawson and the Duke story line
  • Arizona is trying to show staying power
  • North Carolina is back to being a national player
  • The Big East is stronger than ever
Geno has done so much for WCBB over the years that he has zero to prove. AND he owes WCBB nothing in the sense of "for the good of the game to play Tennessee". That's a load of cr@p. The rivalry between those 2 schools existed in part because of the coaches and in part because no one was consistently better than those 2 schools for a very long time.

New rivalries, new coaches, etc. Great players, great play, great stories, all those things make WCBB compelling. The game needs more of that and less "manufactured" circuses...
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Well said. My feelings exactly. Start new rivalries , stop reliving the old ones. Pat Summit is gone. The key to making these new ones is play top 5 teams, not fading programs.
 
Hist-teacher said:
I believe the matchup has become largely irrelevant. Tennessee needs us much more than we need them. That being said in 1995 Pat Summit could have said that about UConn but didn't. She took us on. Maybe we can repay her by continuing the rivalry? Thoughts?
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Pat Summit also canceled the game, which lasted 11 years. The ledger is even.
 
Hist-teacher said:
I believe the matchup has become largely irrelevant. Tennessee needs us much more than we need them. That being said in 1995 Pat Summit could have said that about UConn but didn't. She took us on. Maybe we can repay her by continuing the rivalry? Thoughts?
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Then, again, back in 1995 a soon to be championship, Huskies and their coach Geno Auriemma agreed to allow a Tennessee team to play in Connecticut in a nationally televised game that was already set up for the Huskies. That game allowed a Tennessee team to creep into the public’s perception. Geno agreed to play them sometimes as often as three times a year lifting their program until the Lady Vols won eight championships in total and its coach became the third winningest coach of all time. Eventually they’ll their coach got tired of losing against Connecticut, both on the court and in recruiting, and quit.

Somehow that has morphed into a claim of right that the largess Auriemma had shown to the Tennessee program must continue. I would rather Tennessee fans just said thank you for the success Geno and the Connecticut program has given them and went on their way. It surely isn’t our fault they couldn’t sustain it.
 
uconnever said:
I liked the way it went down last night. I think the rivalry renewed last night. I think because of last night game, Tennessee will get better players that want to be a part of this game and it will only get more intense. Mark my words. I love it because it’s what brought me into the sport. That first game is when I fell in love with the sport. As long as no one gets hurt, I like the intensity and seeing our girls not back down and then win. ITS AWESOME!
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And that's a perfect reason to NOT play this game/series. Any true UCONN fan does not want anything that will help TN.
 
The UConn - Tennessee rivalry is not close to what it once was. It is not longer the two best programs in wcbb playing each other. No Number 1 ranking on the line. Now it's two teams who have a talent gap. One is no longer a national power. Despite these facts, the game is still a big draw. ESPN viewership numbers prove that. So play the game.

The physicality of the game is not a problem either. Teams have been playing UConn physical for years. I don't worry about UConn because they can dis out as good as they get. SC plays physical. That's fine. There are other teams we have played over the years who used the overtly physical play to try to even up the talent gap. UCF anyone. We usually prevail. We see it in the BE teams we play.

My biggest gripe is a play like the Edwards/ Jackson one. Jackson was clearly the aggressor and crossed the line. IMO, she should have been ejected from the game. There was intent to hurt and that can never be allowed. Unfortunately the officiating crew was incapable of making a call. Giving Aaliyah an intentional foul was a cop out to their responsibility. The officiating crew proved they could not tell the difference between a charge call and a blocking call.

I see nothing happening to improve the officiating. The officiating is controlled by the NCAA - in reality it's the university/ college presidents and athletic directors. The non action by the NCAA is doing damage to wcbb/ mcb programs and players. Unfortunately either the don't see it or they are incapable to act for what ever reason.

And no, I have no answers. Just a whole lot of questions as to inaction.
 
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CL82 said:
Then, again, back in 1995 a soon to be championship, Huskies and their coach Geno Auriemma agreed to allow a Tennessee team to play in Connecticut in a nationally televised game that was already set up for the Huskies. That game allowed a Tennessee team to creep into the public’s perception.
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Really??? Back in 1895, TN was the dominant program in WBB and UConn and their brash young coach was the team trying to “creep into the public’s perception.” Yes, UConn was committed to a nationally televised game in Storrs on MLK day, but ESPN was struggling mightily to find an opponent when Pat stepped up and agreed, uttering those famous words, “ We will play anyone, anywhere, anytime.”

You could make a good argument that by agreeing to play in that game, Pat did more to advance WBB in general and UConn WBB specifically than anyone other than Geno.
 
oldude said:
Really??? Back in 1895, TN was the dominant program in WBB and UConn and their brash young coach was the team trying to “creep into the public’s perception.” Yes, UConn was committed to a nationally televised game in Storrs on MLK day, but ESPN was struggling mightily to find an opponent when Pat stepped up and agreed, uttering those famous words, “ We will play anyone, anywhere, anytime.”

You could make a good argument that by agreeing to play in that game, Pat did more to advance WBB in general and UConn WBB specifically than anyone other than Geno.
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No one needed to convince Geno to be willing to schedule any other team, North Carolina, Tennessee, whomever and elevate them. No one needed to beg him. He just did it because he loves women’s basketball and has worked hard to promote it.

I note that the vast majority of Tennessee’s championships came after Martin Luther King day, 1995. That’s indisputable. I also note that after Pat Summitt ended the series, Tennessee drifted back into the pack, while Connecticut continued its unprecedented success. Indeed, when Pat terminated the series Geno generously create a new rivalry with Notre Dame and lo and behold. They were elevated in one national championships both teams that were Connecticut’s “rival” won national championships and jumped ahead in the national consciousness. That is indisputable.


(By the way, Pat Summitt did not say “ We will play anyone, anywhere, anytime.” When she was offered the Connecticut came. You are missing your Pat Summit mythology.)
 
A few random observations about playing in Tennessee and who the LVs are:

I saw a couple clips last night of Paige signing autographs and posing with kids from the stands. She has fans even in Tennessee. I’d be surprised if Azzi didn’t sign a few autographs too. In the handshake line after the games, Horston and Paige had a special hug, and Geno had an extra few friendly words with her.

Yes, the reffing was incompetent. Beyond the AE-RJ incident, which seemed like a predictable result of letting too many hard fouls go unwhistled earlier, Franklin yanked Aaliyah to the floor at mid court in the closing minutes of the 4th with no whistle. A little later RJ did something similar to Aubrey with casual disregard and then simply walked off the court. This one was whistled, her 5th foul, and RJ didn’t even turn to look. She wanted to stop playing and this was her ticket out of the game.

All I saw in those incidents was a couple of transfers got frustrated and committed flagrant fouls with casual disregard for their opponents. Nika and Horston got a Little testy over a foul but they sorted it out by themselves before the refs even got there to break it up.

Horston is who the LVs are, not Jackson or Franklin. She represents the team Kellie is trying to build: fierce and talented with good sportsmanship. But recruiting has been hard so far. Justine Pissot is her only recent success, and she could turn into a significant talent. But without more like her, Kellie will have to rely on the portal to fill out her team. I suspect this means it will be a few years before she will be able to build the program she wants to have. I think Geno wants to support her efforts.
 
oldude said:
Really??? Back in 1895, TN was the dominant program in WBB and UConn and their brash young coach was the team trying to “creep into the public’s perception.” Yes, UConn was committed to a nationally televised game in Storrs on MLK day, but ESPN was struggling mightily to find an opponent when Pat stepped up and agreed, uttering those famous words, “ We will play anyone, anywhere, anytime.”

You could make a good argument that by agreeing to play in that game, Pat did more to advance WBB in general and UConn WBB specifically than anyone other than Geno.
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Check your year, 1895. ;)
 
Bone Dog said:
A few random observations about playing in Tennessee and who the LVs are:

I saw a couple clips last night of Paige signing autographs and posing with kids from the stands. She has fans even in Tennessee. I’d be surprised if Azzi didn’t sign a few autographs too. In the handshake line after the games, Horston and Paige had a special hug, and Geno had an extra few friendly words with her.

Yes, the reffing was incompetent. Beyond the AE-RJ incident, which seemed like a predictable result of letting too many hard fouls go unwhistled earlier, Franklin yanked Aaliyah to the floor at mid court in the closing minutes of the 4th with no whistle. A little later RJ did something similar to Aubrey with casual disregard and then simply walked off the court. This one was whistled, her 5th foul, and RJ didn’t even turn to look. She wanted to stop playing and this was her ticket out of the game.

All I saw in those incidents was a couple of transfers got frustrated and committed flagrant fouls with casual disregard for their opponents. Nika and Horston got a Little testy over a foul but they sorted it out by themselves before the refs even got there to break it up.

Horston is who the LVs are, not Jackson or Franklin. She represents the team Kellie is trying to build: fierce and talented with good sportsmanship. But recruiting has been hard so far. Justine Pissot is her only recent success, and she could turn into a significant talent. But without more like her, Kellie will have to rely on the portal to fill out her team. I suspect this means it will be a few years before she will be able to build the program she wants to have. I think Geno wants to support her efforts.
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Franklin was called for a foul on the play you mentioned.
 
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