NBA playoffs | Page 19 | The Boneyard

NBA playoffs

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superjohn said:
I know Luka is hurt and not himself but it's the playoffs, you gotta play through it and perform. Kyrie was awful too, the assist #'s were good but he's not there to get 9 points. You can't build up a big lead like that at home and then get no scoring from Doncic or Irving. One of them can be bad but not both of them.

They're getting everything they need from Gaffard and Lively holding down the middle and PJ Washington has been their best player in the series. If either Luka or Kyrie would step up they would have total control of this series. It's Luka's team, he needs to step up.
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Don’t want to say Kyrie has been awful. He’s been getting guys involved and playing great defense. No reason he’s only taking 11 shots in a game though. Especially with Luka being hurt the way he is. It’s weird.

Both of their play has been very confusing and I agree if they just played normally it wouldn’t be this close of a series.

Kyrie hasn’t scored 25 yet and Luka only did it once.
 
HuskyWarrior611 said:
Agreed on both points. Even as a Kobe hater I find it hard to not give him credits for the 5 rings though. Even with the depth of the 2009-2010 squads they don’t win without him being Kobe.
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Here’s a fun fact: Over the course of two finals (2008 & 2010), with Ray as the primary defender, Kobe shot 40.5% from the floor, including an all-time godawful 6-for-24 in a game 7.

Kobe being Kobe damn near cost the Lakers that series, which shouldn’t have been close with KG hobbled and Perkins hurt.

Man just had the good fortune of playing for a Mount Rushmore coach and with a pair of hall of fame bigs.
 
Matrim55 said:
Here’s a fun fact: Over the course of two finals (2008 & 2010), with Ray as the primary defender, Kobe shot 40.5% from the floor, including an all-time godawful 6-for-24 in a game 7.

Kobe being Kobe damn near cost the Lakers that series, which shouldn’t have been close with KG hobbled and Perkins hurt.

Man just had the good fortune of playing for a Mount Rushmore coach and with a pair of hall of fame bigs.
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What did Ray shoot in game 7?
 
Matrim55 said:
Here’s a fun fact: Over the course of two finals (2008 & 2010), with Ray as the primary defender, Kobe shot 40.5% from the floor, including an all-time godawful 6-for-24 in a game 7.

Kobe being Kobe damn near cost the Lakers that series, which shouldn’t have been close with KG hobbled and Perkins hurt.

Man just had the good fortune of playing for a Mount Rushmore coach and with a pair of hall of fame bigs.
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Love the Ray plug and I get it. As a Kobe hater turned appreciater after retirement I argued these points for awhile.

It’s fair to say that Kobe turned Pau into a HOF I believe. He was an All Star big but was very known for being soft at the time. Far from the same as Shaq. As weird as it may be to say, Kobe may actually be better at making the guys around him good in comparison to Lebron.

FWIW, you can say the same thing about Jordan for the last sentence (not bigs by HOF players in general). As a T Mac fan trust me I know the importance of being in the right situation smh
 
HitDog said:
What did Ray shoot in game 7?
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3-for-14 -- as a 35-year-old with bum knees guarding the other team's leading scorer.

And also, nobody's out there saying Ray's a top 10 player of all-time.
 
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tzznandrew said:
One full season.

Certainly did so in multiple post-seasons.

But the stats don't lie. His regular season defensive stats are mid, despite the fact that when he wanted to defend he was absolutely exceptional.
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What stats are you talking about? Please don’t waste my time and bring up blocks and steals. His defensive impact metrics were great in his prime.

Lebron, over the 9 years spanning the 08/09 - 16/17 seasons from the ages of 24 to 32, amassed the following resume:


  • An average rank of 6.2 in DPOY voting, having come in 2nd, 4th, 9th, 4th, 2nd, 6th, 13th, 11th, and 5th, in chronological order.
  • 5 all defensive 1st team selections
  • 1 all defensive 2nd team selection
  • He averaged 7.5 RPG, 1.6 SPG, .08 BPG
  • Defensive box plus/minus: 2.1 --- (three highest were 3.7, 2.8, and 2.7)
  • Defensive Win Shares: 39.8
  • Average Defensive Win Shares 4.4 per season ---(three highest were 6.5, 5.3, and 5.2)

His squads had an average rating of:


  • 9.8 in the league in defensive rating
  • 7.1 in the league in points allowed

(admittedly an imperfect comparison, as Jordan played with fewer teams and as the league was actively expanding)


He never won a defensive player of the year :


His closest calls were in:


08/09, a season in which Dwight Howard had 105 first place votes to Lebron's 4, landing Lebron in a very distant 2nd place.


12/13 Gasol had 30 first place votes to Lebron's 18, once again landing Lebron in 2nd place. This was certainly his closest call.

And I don’t even like using these accolades/ stats because boxscore stats are not good for defenssive impact. Per BBall-index, since, 2014 (earliest data goes back) LeBron has been in 85 percentile defense.

I get it’s easy to hate LeBron and go with the stupid casual espn/ skip bayless narratives that he doesn’t play defense, but it’s simply not true and couldn’t be farther from the truth.
 
Yanksrock615 said:
What stats are you talking about? Please don’t waste my time and bring up blocks and steals. His defensive impact metrics were great in his prime.

Lebron, over the 9 years spanning the 08/09 - 16/17 seasons from the ages of 24 to 32, amassed the following resume:


  • An average rank of 6.2 in DPOY voting, having come in 2nd, 4th, 9th, 4th, 2nd, 6th, 13th, 11th, and 5th, in chronological order.
  • 5 all defensive 1st team selections
  • 1 all defensive 2nd team selection
  • He averaged 7.5 RPG, 1.6 SPG, .08 BPG
  • Defensive box plus/minus: 2.1 --- (three highest were 3.7, 2.8, and 2.7)
  • Defensive Win Shares: 39.8
  • Average Defensive Win Shares 4.4 per season ---(three highest were 6.5, 5.3, and 5.2)

His squads had an average rating of:


  • 9.8 in the league in defensive rating
  • 7.1 in the league in points allowed

(admittedly an imperfect comparison, as Jordan played with fewer teams and as the league was actively expanding)


He never won a defensive player of the year :


His closest calls were in:


08/09, a season in which Dwight Howard had 105 first place votes to Lebron's 4, landing Lebron in a very distant 2nd place.


12/13 Gasol had 30 first place votes to Lebron's 18, once again landing Lebron in 2nd place. This was certainly his closest call.

And I don’t even like using these accolades/ stats because boxscore stats are not good for defenssive impact. Per BBall-index, since, 2014 (earliest data goes back) LeBron has been in 85 percentile defense.

I get it’s easy to hate LeBron and go with the stupid casual espn/ skip bayless narratives that he doesn’t play defense, but it’s simply not true and couldn’t be farther from the truth.
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I cited the stat in my original post (defensive plus/minus). He was never Top 10 in any advanced metric for defense except the year I cited. He was (2012-2020) a very good defender, and exceptional when he wants to be (playoffs). If he's in the 85 percentile, that means 14% of players are better defenders than him (unless BBall-index has some different meaning of percentiles)...hard to see how that contradicts my point.

Nothing I said regarding LeBron's defense was wrong, and nothing I said went along with the moronic Skip Bayliss narrative. He's certainly the all-around best player I have watched as an adult.
 
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tzznandrew said:
I cited the stat in my original post (defensive plus/minus). He was never Top 10 in any advanced metric for defense except the year I cited. He was (2012-2020) a very good defender, and exceptional when he wants to be (playoffs). If he's in the 85 percentile, that means 14% of players are better defenders than him (unless BBall-index has some different meaning of percentiles)...hard to see how that contradicts my point.

Nothing I said regarding LeBron's defense was wrong, and nothing I said went along with the moronic Skip Bayliss narrative. He's certainly the all-around best player I have watched as an adult.
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Don’t love defensive plus minus to measure one guys defense because so much defense is team based especially in the nba. I was mainly disputing your point of Bron “only trying on defense” for 1 year. We know that’s not true. He was the better defender than MJ. Stronger, faster, quicker, bigger and could defend all 5 positions in his prime.
 
Knicks have first round 24 and 25 picks if I have it right. They should take Alex Karaban with one of those picks. Could also add Newton or Spencer with the other one.
 
Yanksrock615 said:
Don’t love defensive plus minus to measure one guys defense because so much defense is team based especially in the nba. I was mainly disputing your point of Bron “only trying on defense” for 1 year. We know that’s not true. He was the better defender than MJ. Stronger, faster, quicker, bigger and could defend all 5 positions in his prime.
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Idk man, MJ was a known nightmare to play against, especially with the lip. Maybe Bron could have been a great defender, but he's not in MJs defensive category imo. MJ, Scotty, and Rodman were some of the best defenders to ever take the court together.
 
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aceboon said:
Brunson/Hart/DDV are made men in NYC for life after this season
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Screenshot_20240514_210752_X.jpg
 
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Matrim55 said:
Jokic's one of the three best players I've ever seen. He might not scrap his way into the GOAT tier b/c he's not the defensive presence those top four guys are, but my god man. My god.
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He has a very compelling argument for greatest offensive peak ever. Thinking Basketball did an episode on it.
 
jdb50 said:
Knicks have first round 24 and 25 picks if I have it right. They should take Alex Karaban with one of those picks. Could also add Newton or Spencer with the other one.
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Knicks should empty the clip in a trade up for Castle.

He is a Thibs player if ever there was one.
 
HuskyWarrior611 said:
Hope OG and Robinson can make their way back for the series. They can have a serious chance if they are healthy.
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Robinson's done for the season. The rumors are OG may be as well as the Knicks have given nothing as far as a timetable on when he may return.
 
Rich said:
Knicks should empty the clip in a trade up for Castle.
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Who would the Knicks offer from their now solid or relatively solid rotation (tempered by all the injuries to quite a few players) to get another team to give up their presumed Castle pick?

Would future draft picks be enough?

Right now, they'll have to pony up some serious cash to keep Hartenstein.
 
HuskyWarrior611 said:
Hope OG and Robinson can make their way back for the series. They can have a serious chance if they are healthy.
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Both seem to be chronically injured players, who when healthy, are very impactful.

Not really sure why some players keep getting hurt and why others are ironmen?

Maybe a subject for its own thread?
 
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