NBA Playoffs

[superjohn]

How did he break it?

This is something he should be dragged about, not complimented.

He showed up to the press conference last night wearing a cast.
Watch "LeBron James wears hand cast in postgame press conference after Game 4, explains injury | ESPN" on YouTube

 

[Rocktheworld]

How did he break it?

This is something he should be dragged about, not complimented.

Would you rather have had him do it punching JR in the face like MJ did to Kerr?

 

[Robertelamin]

What a leader!

 

[Jaker]

I wonder how many players actually like playing along side Lebron?? It seems like all the key players for the Warriors actually like playing with each other.

 

[Horatio]

How did he break it?

This is something he should be dragged about, not complimented.

You could say he played exceptionally well with one hand but that all depends on how fair you are.

 

[tzznandrew]

Would you rather have had him do it punching JR in the face like MJ did to Kerr?

Did it materially affect the Bulls chances of winning a title?

 

[tzznandrew]

You could say he played better exceptionally well with one hand but that all depends on how fair you are.

He did. But he also didn't play as well as he could have without a broken hand. A hand he broke himself.

I'm not going to give him credit for playing through a self-inflicted injury.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Did it materially affect the Bulls chances of winning a title?

MJ’s punch was in practice. LeBron’s was after one of the most heart-crushing losses (especially for him) you could imagine. If MJ gets to lose his composure all over a team mate in practice I give Bron a tiny bit of a pass taking some incomprehensible frustration out on a whiteboard.

There were no “chances” of winning a title. It was more so a matter of how few games it would take for them to lose.

 

[MadDogRevival]

It's the argument of a child.

You suggested I was a baby and you're calling this guy a child. Way to take the high road.

 

[MadDogRevival]

I'm not going to give him credit for playing through a self-inflicted injury.

You're not going to give him credit for anything, because you hate him. Anything resembling "credit" that you give him is always couched in a back handed manner.

The difference between the pro-Jordan guys in this argument (Robertmain, TZAndrew, SuperDave) and the rest of us is . . .
We didn't and don't hate Jordan - I think he was a great competitor and the 2nd best player ever - a savior of the game, of sorts, who took over a recovering patient after Bird and Magic administered CPR and revived a dying sport.
You three hate LeBron, and that's not going to change. If the guy rattled off 3 titles in a row, you'd still be making the same arguments. The other 2 I don't know, but I've read a few of TZAndrew's cesspool posts to know that that's just how he's constructed - take a position, dig in, and defend it like you're a japanese soldier on Iwo Jima.

 

[superjohn]

You suggested I was a baby and you're calling this guy a child. Way to take the high road.

Lebron is better because I say so, is the argument of a child. Look I get it, the numbers are so heavily in Jordan's favor but conceding you were mistaken is a far better way of handling things than just sticking your thumbs in your ears.

 

[Adios]

Michael Jordan retired twice and still has twice as many more championships. He was smart in letting the front office do their work, rather than dictate what to do. He put up with Dennis Rodman.

 

[tzznandrew]

You're not going to give him credit for anything, because you hate him. Anything resembling "credit" that you give him is always couched in a back handed manner.

The difference between the pro-Jordan guys in this argument (Robertmain, TZAndrew, SuperDave) and the rest of us is . . .
We didn't and don't hate Jordan - I think he was a great competitor and the 2nd best player ever - a savior of the game, of sorts, who took over a recovering patient after Bird and Magic administered CPR and revived a dying sport.
You three hate LeBron, and that's not going to change. If the guy rattled off 3 titles in a row, you'd still be making the same arguments. The other 2 I don't know, but I've read a few of TZAndrew's cesspool posts to know that that's just how he's constructed - take a position, dig in, and defend it like you're a japanese soldier on Iwo Jima.

LOL.

For someone who talked about how smart you were on the cesspool, you're one of the posters here least able to deal with nuance.

I think LeBron is the second best player ever and I hate him.

Talk about hate, look at the tone and tenor of any post you make about KD.

 

[MadDogRevival]

Talk about hate, look at the tone and tenor of any post you make about KD.

Sure, but unlike you, I admit I hate KD (as a player, not a person), and I acknowledge that I would be a poor choice to rank him all-time because of that.
You hate LeBron but you pretend not to. And everybody sees that (except your two supporters).

 

[tzznandrew]

Sure, but unlike you, I admit I hate KD (as a player, not a person), and I acknowledge that I would be a poor choice to rank him all-time because of that.
You hate LeBron but you pretend not to. And everybody sees that (except your two supporters).

Your evidence for me hating him is what? Me making arguments that he's not the best ever.

It's a silly and simplistic line of argument on your end here.

 

[superjohn]

Your evidence for me hating him is what? Me making arguments that he's not the best ever.

It's a silly and simplistic line of argument on your end here.

It's what you do when you have no argument. In his defense there is no argument to be made but he's hardheaded so while it would have been prudent to tap out a while ago, it isn't in his nature. It is funny he has come back after that embarrassing effort last night but he didn't even watch the game so...

The best part about it is I couldn't stand Jordan. I'm a Knicks fan and detested him, I also think he came off as an arrogant jackarse in his hall of fame speech but I'm able to look past that and see he's clearly the best player I've ever seen.

 

[auror]

Part of the challenge of the GOAT debate is definitional: Does it refer to the player who reached the greatest heights, or the one who had the best career?

In the hypothetical where we're choosing sides to win a single game or series, like "the Martian premise" Bill Simmons employs in "The Book of Basketball"pitting the best possible team of NBA players against aliens, Jordan remains the pick. His 1990-91 season was the best we've ever seen -- a superstar combining sheer individual greatness with the ability to (begrudgingly, perhaps) fit into the team concept of Phil Jackson's triangle offense.

The alternative hypothetical is this: Imagine a draft where we're picking every single NBA player at the start of his career. The team gets the player's career exactly as it played out, with no chance of anyone taking his talents to South Beach. This is exactly the question championships added is trying to answer, and to the extent it's close now, James' eventual superiority is all but inevitable. After all, look at what happens when we graph championships added by age instead of experience.

Now, James comes out ahead at every age, thanks in part to starting younger but also because he reached peak performance sooner. Before adding in this season's playoffs, and without the adjustment for league quality, James already has more championships added through his age-33 season than Jordan did at 34. Barring injury or an improbable decision to walk away from the game as MJ did, James will soon pass Jordan in career points. He's already ahead by a wide margin in career rebounds and assists.

A team drafting James' entire career would assure itself championship contention for more than a decade given his metronomic consistency and ability to avoid injury. Jordan might have been better at his best, but James has already put together the best NBA career we've ever seen.

Is LeBron overtaking MJ as the greatest player of all time?

 

[tzznandrew]

The best part about it is I couldn't stand Jordan. I'm a Knicks fan and detested him, I also think he came off as an arrogant jackarse in his hall of fame speech but I'm able to look past that and see he's clearly the best player I've ever seen.

Oh yeah, Jordan is absolutely a terrible person. And LeBron is not. LeBron has put himself on the line financially by standing up for political causes he believed in; MJ would never do that.

But I do think it's funny the Cesspool got brought as if that were a knock against me. We're chatting with a dude he got a thread on the Cesspool nuked for racism. On the Cesspool...where problematic threads go to become more uncomfortable. He got a thread there nuked for racism. I mean, I hate to repeat myself, but come on.

 

[Horatio]

MJ’s punch was in practice. LeBron’s was after one of the most heart-crushing losses (especially for him) you could imagine. If MJ gets to lose his composure all over a team mate in practice I give Bron a tiny bit of a pass taking some incomprehensible frustration out on a whiteboard.

There were no “chances” of winning a title. It was more so a matter of how few games it would take for them to lose.

MJ was physical with other teammates as well.

 

[intlzncster]

Well there you go, if Lebron does not break his hand punching whiteboard like an idiot, the Cav's win another title.

This is something I really dislike about LeBron. First of all, you're an @ss for the mere fact of doing it (if it's even true). But then to bust out a wrap/sling on the podium after losing? That's soft. It's implicitly offering up an 'excuse' or doing the 'fighting through adversity' thing. So soft.

 

[intlzncster]

MJ was physical with other teammates as well.

MJ was a world class dick when it came to competitiveness. One of the big reasons he was so good at basketball.

 

[Mr. French]

MJ’s competiveness was second to none but being more competitive does not make you a better player.



Exactly. The Bulls wouldn’t stand a chance, which is why LeBron’s finals record shouldn’t be held against him.

Dude, just tell people you’re only 18, rather than letting them find out through nonsensical takes.

 

[champs99and04]

So numbers, awards, record, and winning titles doesn't matter in this debate.

I'm sorry but just saying Lebron is better because that's what I think is incredibly weak. It's the argument of a child.

Lol. Try reading what I wrote.

The shame of the Jordan cult is that there is actually a really good argument that he’s the best of all-time and I rarely hear anyone make it because they’re so busy playing to the lowest common denominator. His greatness deserves better than the regurgitation of superficial nonsense.

 

[champs99and04]

You're not going to give him credit for anything, because you hate him. Anything resembling "credit" that you give him is always couched in a back handed manner.

The difference between the pro-Jordan guys in this argument (Robertmain, TZAndrew, SuperDave) and the rest of us is . . .
We didn't and don't hate Jordan - I think he was a great competitor and the 2nd best player ever - a savior of the game, of sorts, who took over a recovering patient after Bird and Magic administered CPR and revived a dying sport.
You three hate LeBron, and that's not going to change. If the guy rattled off 3 titles in a row, you'd still be making the same arguments. The other 2 I don't know, but I've read a few of TZAndrew's cesspool posts to know that that's just how he's constructed - take a position, dig in, and defend it like you're a japanese soldier on Iwo Jima.

Not sure I’d go as far as to say they “hate” him but I do find it interesting how many perfectly objective Celtics fans we have weighing in. I admire them for not allowing the fact that he’s sent their team packing five times in the last eight years to influence their judgment.

 

[ihatepants]

This is something I really dislike about LeBron. First of all, you're an @ss for the mere fact of doing it (if it's even true). But then to bust out a wrap/sling on the podium after losing? That's soft. It's implicitly offering up an 'excuse' or doing the 'fighting through adversity' thing. So soft.

Lebron hasn’t blamed the hand injury, he even specifically mentions it in that interview. Something to the effect of "probably wouldn't have beat them even if I was fully healthy." It might be more manly to never reveal it, but after the adrenaline and painkiller/anti inflammatory injections wear off, you'd probably want the cast too. We don't have to live in a world of twitter hot takes.

If you don’t understand why you hide injuries from your opponents, it’s so they can’t exploit them. This is standard in every sport. Richard Sherman and Tom Brady are also examples of two guys who were also known to hide their injuries before taking the field, then talked about it/showed it after the games they played.

 

[selles]

Lol. Try reading what I wrote.

The shame of the Jordan cult is that there is actually a really good argument that he’s the best of all-time and I rarely hear anyone make it because they’re so busy playing to the lowest common denominator. His greatness deserves better than the regurgitation of superficial nonsense.

I think what younger folks may not fully grasp is that many, many members of the "Jordan cult" didn't root for Jordan and in fact rooted fervently for the Bulls to lose.

You have fans of the Celtics and Lakers who wanted to be able to argue that Magic/Bird and their 1980s squads were the best (hand raised). You have Pistons fans who wanted to argue their late 80s early 90s teams were the toughest. You have Knicks and Pacers and Western Conference fans who were trying to break through.

We desperately wanted Jordan NOT to be the best. But you can only root for a guy to fail and then watch him will his team to victory on the highest stage but so many times before you admit defeat.

The reason we're a cult is that Jordan flat beat any doubt of his supremacy out of us.

 

[Rocktheworld]

We desperately wanted Jordan NOT to be the best. But you can only root for a guy to fail and then watch him will his team to victory on the highest stage but so many times before you admit defeat.

That's why you have all these players high up in the media who played against him lauding him as far-and-away the GOAT. Couldn't beat him, so just say you couldn't overcome the GOAT and attach your feelings of inadequacy to such a claim.

Half-rhetorically speaking, do the pre-Jordan HOFers mark him as the unquestionable GOAT? This hearkens back to champs's point of taking players' opinions with a grain of salt. It's only guys from the late 80s to early 00s in the media continuing this narrative; and guys like Juanita to whom, as adolescent boys, Jordan was an infallible god.

 

[champs99and04]

I think what younger folks may not fully grasp is that many, many members of the "Jordan cult" didn't root for Jordan and in fact rooted fervently for the Bulls to lose.

You have fans of the Celtics and Lakers who wanted to be able to argue that Magic/Bird and their 1980s squads were the best (hand raised). You have Pistons fans who wanted to argue their late 80s early 90s teams were the toughest. You have Knicks and Pacers and Western Conference fans who were trying to break through.

We desperately wanted Jordan NOT to be the best. But you can only root for a guy to fail and then watch him will his team to victory on the highest stage but so many times before you admit defeat.

The reason we're a cult is that Jordan flat beat any doubt of his supremacy out of us.

No, I get it. I think it actually makes my point, if anything. Opinions tend to soften over time. Something is at its most threatening point when it's ongoing. Defeat gets progressively easier to swallow as you get further removed from that moment. Defensiveness leads to the formation of opinions and then those opinions lead to rooting interest. At least that's the way it is with me.

The opposite can sometimes be true as well. You establish such high expectations and then when they don't meet them you overcompensate because you're disappointed. In either case, it's basically impossible to separate the basic psychological element that Jordan came at an earlier point in time from the analysis.

To be clear, I'm not arguing for LeBron over Jordan (though game one of the finals was the most tempted I've been to sway that way). I just think it's worth defending LeBron on certain points.

 

[ihatepants]

And people are questioning why Durant has become so unlikeable since he left OKC? He used to be such a humble guy. Remember when he wanted he shoes to be affordable because he knew what it was like to not be able to afford Jordans as a kid, and then when Nike increased the price of his shoes to $150, he was quoted as saying “I'm not a $88 player. I'm an elite player in the league.”

 

[Rocktheworld]

And people are questioning why Durant has become so unlikeable since he left OKC? He used to be such a humble guy. Remember when he wanted he shoes to be affordable because he knew what it was like to not be able to afford Jordans as a kid, and then when Nike increased the price of his shoes to $150, he was quoted as saying “I'm not a $88 player. I'm an elite player in the league.”

Time to bump my “Kevin Durant is Becoming a Head Case” thread

Man I can’t wait to hear the takes on FS1 tomorrow