NBA Off-Season Thread | Page 9 | The Boneyard

NBA Off-Season Thread

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the Q said:
This never gets this far wih the pop cheap shots, the Parker idiocy and the March gang bang.

Plus I have a big issue with the spurs trying to go around his representation. That’s simply underhanded and wrong. Period. Full stop. No excuse.
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In what way did the Spurs try to go around his representation? The Spurs never lied to him. Kawhi wanted out of SA for reasons other than whatever Pop, the Spurs or Tony Parker did or said. He was just looking for any excuse to shift the blame off of himself. And because you're siding with him in this case, it looks like his narrative worked.
 
Interesting listening to Boogie on why he joined the Warriors. Still curious as to how much interest the Celtics showed. Reportedly had some.

“We reached out to teams, the Pelicans, and there was no offer. I understand, a big year and you don’t want to take a chance on a damaged player. Cool. We reached out to some other teams. We got answers like, we don’t believe it’s a good fit,’ or ‘We gotta see what we’re doing with our roster.’Just bullshit answers. And then there were some that were flat out like, we can’t take that risk. I had to prepare myself for this situation. The different possibilities that I knew would happen. Talked to Draymond, talked to KD, talked to Steph and they were like, hell yeah, let’s do it. This was my ace of spades. This was my nuclear bomb. My last resort.

“Yeah, I could’ve probably got a contract, a decent contract, from a bad team. But how does that help me? I’m already fighting a career-ending injury. I’m not going to put myself in an already bad situation to try and prove my value or worth as a player in a situation that’s not looking to win. I knew how I’d be perceived by some. I don’t give a duckbomb.”

 
Walker11 said:
I think we see the entire situation pretty similarly so this is more a cheap shot by me than anything but in my eyes preferring Porter over DeRozan is more damning against you than it is DeRozan. If you want to put any weight in playoff performances, one guy averaged 8 per game in a series loss and one guy averaged 27 per game in a series win. DeMar just really needs to start shooting the 3 better to make the next step past a better version of a Gay type player, which has been a fine comparison for most of DD's career.
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It's fair to say Otto hasn't maintained his level of production in the postseason (not sure how much of a factor the injury was last year), but my preference for him over DeRozan is independent of anything that's happened in the playoffs. I think he's just a better player straight up.

Agreed on DeMar's shooting, though I don't know that I would bet on it. I think his best case scenario is to play the 2016 Kyrie role, but obviously that would require finding a 2016 LeBron which there is only one of.
 
I try not to overanalyze the things players say to the media, but this is, uh, eyebrow raising? New Bull Parker: Players not paid for defense

Given the fact that it's his hometown team and they're miles away from contending, it might not matter as much, but it would be awfully tough for me to stomach that attitude if I were a Bulls fan and you have to question the guidance he's received throughout his career - dating back to his college days - if that's his mentality four years removed from declaring. I don't mind the arrogance so much as I do the sheer stupidity of those remarks. This kid could use a vet to grab him by the collar right about now, otherwise good luck fetching a similar payday next time around.
 
champs99and04 said:
I try not to overanalyze the things players say to the media, but this is, uh, eyebrow raising? New Bull Parker: Players not paid for defense

Given the fact that it's his hometown team and they're miles away from contending, it might not matter as much, but it would be awfully tough for me to stomach that attitude if I were a Bulls fan and you have to question the guidance he's received throughout his career - dating back to his college days - if that's his mentality four years removed from declaring. I don't mind the arrogance so much as I do the sheer stupidity of those remarks. This kid could use a vet to grab him by the collar right about now, otherwise good luck fetching a similar payday next time around.
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There's a reason Parker is on the Bulls and not an actually good team.
 
champs99and04 said:
I try not to overanalyze the things players say to the media, but this is, uh, eyebrow raising? New Bull Parker: Players not paid for defense

Given the fact that it's his hometown team and they're miles away from contending, it might not matter as much, but it would be awfully tough for me to stomach that attitude if I were a Bulls fan and you have to question the guidance he's received throughout his career - dating back to his college days - if that's his mentality four years removed from declaring. I don't mind the arrogance so much as I do the sheer stupidity of those remarks. This kid could use a vet to grab him by the collar right about now, otherwise good luck fetching a similar payday next time around.
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I thought it was hilarious. He is so bad defensively that even the Bucks didn't want him, and the Bucks are bad defensively.
 
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ihatepants said:
In what way did the Spurs try to go around his representation? The Spurs never lied to him. Kawhi wanted out of SA for reasons other than whatever Pop, the Spurs or Tony Parker did or said. He was just looking for any excuse to shift the blame off of himself. And because you're siding with him in this case, it looks like his narrative worked.
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Agree, I really like Kawhi and think he's a great, transcendent talent and basketball player, but he absolutely is following bad advice and abandoned his team more for perceived slights than actual. Now he's upset for them speaking out about his not playing, not communicating about his injury AND not supporting his team by staying with them. And while Kawhi is threatening sitting out again people still defend that he sat out only for injury. He is proving that he sat out for his own reasons and these appear to be partially self-inflicted (slights, over-cautious to only opinion he wanted to hear on injury).
There is at least a 33% chance that Kawhi either doesn't play again this year due to same combo of physical/mental injury. Rather than publicly or privately get help and cooperate with his team Kawhi keeps following bad advice and digging a hole deeper.

If I had to bet $1000 on who wins this trade for the 18-19 season I'd take the Spurs in a heartbeat even though I believe that from a pure on-court basketball perspective for the upcoming season the Raptors won the trade.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
I thought it was hilarious. He is so bad defensively that even the Bucks didn't want him, and the Bucks are bad defensively.
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This was one of my Plus hot takes. Although not here.

I called Parker vastly overrated and not an elite prospect.
 
Dogdeacon said:
Agree, I really like Kawhi and think he's a great, transcendent talent and basketball player, but he absolutely is following bad advice and abandoned his team more for perceived slights than actual. Now he's upset for them speaking out about his not playing, not communicating about his injury AND not supporting his team by staying with them. And while Kawhi is threatening sitting out again people still defend that he sat out only for injury. He is proving that he sat out for his own reasons and these appear to be partially self-inflicted (slights, over-cautious to only opinion he wanted to hear on injury).
There is at least a 33% chance that Kawhi either doesn't play again this year due to same combo of physical/mental injury. Rather than publicly or privately get help and cooperate with his team Kawhi keeps following bad advice and digging a hole deeper.

If I had to bet $1000 on who wins this trade for the 18-19 season I'd take the Spurs in a heartbeat even though I believe that from a pure on-court basketball perspective for the upcoming season the Raptors won the trade.
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Kawhi Leonard reportedly warming up to idea of playing for Raptors

And I disagree on your perceived slights. It was bad. You can’t go back after what was said by the spurs and the players.
 
the Q said:
Kawhi Leonard reportedly warming up to idea of playing for Raptors

And I disagree on your perceived slights. It was bad. You can’t go back after what was said by the spurs and the players.
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So if you are a player or coach and legitimately feel that Kawhi effectively abandoned the team, overplayed his injury (debatable) and didn't support the team (undeniable) you are supposed to say nothing because he's too fragile and sensitive? I'm old school and I think you play hurt even if its at diminished effectiveness (see McHale, Kevin).

The Spurs have a history of winning, developing players and getting the most out of players. Kawhi's situation is clearly the outlier. Probably Kawhi was severely injured & unable to play, but it is possible that he was at least over-cautious. And again it is undeniable that he chose not to support his teammates which he could have done regardless of what he thought about the medical staff, coach or owners.

Is Kawhi's ego (or more likely his uncle's talk) what makes him unable admit any fault or take any criticism? If he is 100% in the right why would it even bother him and why not confron the individuals or team and lay out fact for his side of story? What's another example of a player being criticized by his team and those words making playing for that team impossible? Kawhi is a grown man and I don't think the organization had an obligation to tip-toe around him. I find the entire situation preposterous.

Again, I think he is great and hope to watch him play again and dominate. If and when he does that I will certainly consider changing my opinion and putting more fault on the Spurs. But for right now I've got the fault more on Kawhi's side.
 
Dogdeacon said:
So if you are a player or coach and legitimately feel that Kawhi effectively abandoned the team, overplayed his injury (debatable) and didn't support the team (undeniable) you are supposed to say nothing because he's too fragile and sensitive? I'm old school and I think you play hurt even if its at diminished effectiveness (see McHale, Kevin).

The Spurs have a history of winning, developing players and getting the most out of players. Kawhi's situation is clearly the outlier. Probably Kawhi was severely injured & unable to play, but it is possible that he was at least over-cautious. And again it is undeniable that he chose not to support his teammates which he could have done regardless of what he thought about the medical staff, coach or owners.

Is Kawhi's ego (or more likely his uncle's talk) what makes him unable admit any fault or take any criticism? If he is 100% in the right why would it even bother him and why not confron the individuals or team and lay out fact for his side of story? What's another example of a player being criticized by his team and those words making playing for that team impossible? Kawhi is a grown man and I don't think the organization had an obligation to tip-toe around him. I find the entire situation preposterous.

Again, I think he is great and hope to watch him play again and dominate. If and when he does that I will certainly consider changing my opinion and putting more fault on the Spurs. But for right now I've got the fault more on Kawhi's side.
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Not in public. That was the spurs mistake. Hell even the March gang bang was promoted like a WWE event.

Everything the spurs did in public was done not spur of the moment. It was deliberate and intention.

The trust is gone.

There was no going back.
 
the Q said:
Not in public. That was the spurs mistake. Hell even the March gang bang was promoted like a WWE event.
Everything the spurs did in public was done not spur of the moment. It was deliberate and intention.
The trust is gone.
There was no going back.
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Why? These aren't facts, they are opinion & obviously he was traded and what happens next will be most telling. But every report details mistakes on both sides and particularly shady influences and dealing by Leonard's new representation. It is very arguable that the Spurs public reactions to those people were justifiable. 'Deliberate and intention' [sic] mean the same thing and the question again is were they reasonable responses to Kawhi's actions which came first.
Read the espn story from May and tell me how this is 100% on the Spurs.
The uncomfortable silence of Kawhi Leonard
 
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the Q said:
This was one of my Plus hot takes. Although not here.

I called Parker vastly overrated and not an elite prospect.
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That reminds me of another one of my all-time bad takes - Wiggins is the best prospect in the draft, and not just because of Embiid's health.

I haven't questioned the scouts much since.
 
champs99and04 said:
That reminds me of another one of my all-time bad takes - Wiggins is the best prospect in the draft, and not just because of Embiid's health.

I haven't questioned the scouts much since.
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I liked Wiggins, a lot. But I was obsessed with embiid. It’s really hard to me to pick on teams without having access to physicals.

Especially since that was close enough to Greg oden.
 
Dogdeacon said:
Why? These aren't facts, they are opinion & obviously he was traded and what happens next will be most telling. But every report details mistakes on both sides and particularly shady influences and dealing by Leonard's new representation. It is very arguable that the Spurs public reactions to those people were justifiable. 'Deliberate and intention' [sic] mean the same thing and the question again is were they reasonable responses to Kawhi's actions which came first.
Read the espn story from May and tell me how this is 100% on the Spurs.
The uncomfortable silence of Kawhi Leonard
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No the events I’m taking about are facts. They happened.

I never said Kawhi or his representation didn’t have a role in it.

But the spurs poured kerosene on the fire.
 
the Q said:
I liked Wiggins, a lot. But I was obsessed with embiid. It’s really hard to me to pick on teams without having access to physicals.

Especially since that was close enough to Greg oden.
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It's still not yet decided either. It's not like he's clear and free going forward, there's always going to be a worry there, even if he's injury free.
 
intlzncster said:
It's still not yet decided either. It's not like he's clear and free going forward, there's always going to be a worry there, even if he's injury free.
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I get you.

I’m just saying that when a guy falls for medicals I can’t say that much, but especially for Big guys. Oden was gonna be incredible. I feel so cheated by him and bynum getting their careers basically ended by 25 due to injury.
 
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intlzncster said:
How many crazy guys can they get on one team? This is like the Rex Ryan NYJs.
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Haha for real, hes only like the 5th most craziest guy on their team, its a better option then Melo, he will thrive with Lebron. He was a really likable Knick for his one year there, guy was crazy but went all out every night.
 
champs99and04 said:
It's fair to say Otto hasn't maintained his level of production in the postseason (not sure how much of a factor the injury was last year), but my preference for him over DeRozan is independent of anything that's happened in the playoffs. I think he's just a better player straight up.

Agreed on DeMar's shooting, though I don't know that I would bet on it. I think his best case scenario is to play the 2016 Kyrie role, but obviously that would require finding a 2016 LeBron which there is only one of.
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I get it. I just disagree. I just see you severely ding DeMar for his postseason output when Porter was much worse in a had to head. The box score stats were too staggering for me to avoid posting. But it is disingenuous to avoid discussion about the other side of the ball where there is a big discrepancy. I can imagine Porter being a better fit on several teams even though I think DeRozan is much better. As you said, he is an incredibly divisive player. He had one of the worst O ratings on the team and the worst D rating I think. I am biased as he is one of my favorite players and I watch him a lot and to me the eye test tells me otherwise but there is a reason so many hoops jukies have widely varying opinions on him. Excited to see what happens with the Spurs, regardless.
 
Huskyforlife said:
Lebron will retire by mid season.
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I strongly believe these moves were made with Lebron's o.k. He was not calling the shots like he did in Cleveland but he is definitely giving Magic/Pelinka approval. As to why he is going along with this strategy, who knows. We already know he called Stephenson to tell him he wanted him. He really likes and respects Rondo, too.
 
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nelsonmuntz said:
Towns has work ethic issues, and Butler no longer wants to play with him, which is a red flag. I am not going to defend Booker either. Porzingas is a huge step ahead of either of them. I don't know if his injury will be career ending or not.

None if that was the point of my post. Any team that was tanking heading into the 2015 draft would have regretted it.
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Where are getting these rumors about towns and butler. My cousin is a huge twolves fan and lives in minny. Laughed when i mentioned what you posted about towns and butler
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Nuggets do a salary dump to the Nets, then sign Isaiah Thomas for a coupon book to Applebees. Both are good moves. 15 months ago IT was on the cusp of signing a 9 digit contract. Now he has a 1 year deal for $2 million. Ouch.

Butler won't sign an extension with the Timberwolves. Not exactly an endorsement of Minnesota's two young stars.

Jabari Parker about to sign with Bulls, no match expected from Bucks. This is a situation that works out for everyone. Parker will make some money and get to start, Bulls get a scorer and hometown kid to sell some tickets, and the Bucks avoid a tough decision on a player that is not a fit for their team.

Edit: Parker signs 2 year, $40 million contract with Bulls. I figured 2 years, $15 million would have been reasonable. Were there any other bidders for Parker?
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This has absolutely nothing to do with the twolves. It's the same thing Klay did and it's a smart business decision since it makes you a boatload of money more by waiting a year. He has already told the wolves he open to extending but won't do it till next occasio off season so he's eligible for the super max or whatever they call it

Also give me KAT career over any player in their draft class. He might not have the single best seasons but he will have the most consistent and long career. He will be a 20/10 guy for many of years, he's a great rebounder, free throw shooter, can knock down 3s and has good low post moves. He kinda reminds me of Timmy a little with a more dynamic offensive skill set
 
methodology said:
Where are getting these rumors about towns and butler. My cousin is a huge twolves fan and lives in minny. Laughed when i mentioned what you posted about towns and butler
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I have seen the same. Just googled it and they are right there. Just rumors so who knows.
 
intlzncster said:
Well, we already know that LeBron the GM isn't all that. Who knows how this go around will work out?
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Given all the 1 year deals, this is setting up for 2018 Cleveland at the trade deadline where he can trade everyone away if they're not performing
 
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