NBA Off-Season Thread

[ihatepants]

 

[ihatepants]

I'm shocked that the responsibility for a player disappearing from one of the most respected organizations in the NBA for a year might actually fall on the player that disappeared (or on his "camp" which consists of his really dumb uncle and Kawhi's new agent, Impact Sports, of which he is the only client, and who just got a $10 million loan that they need to produce on).

 

[the Q]

I'm shocked that the responsibility for a player disappearing from one of the most respected organizations in the NBA for a year might actually fall on the player that disappeared (or on his "camp" which consists of his really dumb uncle and Kawhi's new agent, Impact Sports, of which he is the only client, and who just got a $10 million loan that they need to produce on).

That Loan would make you think they’d need that supermax.

 

[ihatepants]

That Loan would make you think they’d need that supermax.

They could still be angling for that. Still hasn't been ruled out until it's offered and accepted/rejected. They might be doing all this because San Antonio hasn't offered and they want the offer to come before the Spurs have assurances that he's back to normal and worth that contract.

Kawhi's camp might also think that the reason Kawhi hasn't gotten a shoe deal is because San Antonio is too small of a market for their star.

 

[UConn990411]

They could still be angling for that. Still hasn't been ruled out until it's offered and accepted/rejected. They might be doing all this because San Antonio hasn't offered and they want the offer to come before the Spurs have assurances that he's back to normal and worth that contract.

Kawhi's camp might also think that the reason Kawhi hasn't gotten a shoe deal is because San Antonio is too small of a market for their star.

That’s reportedly one of the reasons they think Kawhi’s brand hasn’t taken off.

Apparently they’re the last ones to realize their client has the personality of drying paint.

 

[the Q]

That’s reportedly one of the reasons they think Kawhi’s brand hasn’t taken off.

Apparently they’re the last ones to realize their client has the personality of drying paint.

Yeah, it’s not like okc is a metropolis and Durant’s brand did fine there.

 

[ihatepants]

Is Kawhi's sports agency putting his mom and uncle on the payroll normal?

 

[traitor71]

That’s reportedly one of the reasons they think Kawhi’s brand hasn’t taken off.

Apparently they’re the last ones to realize their client has the personality of drying paint.

My sons are 15 and 12, they and all their friends watch and play basketball religiously and Kawhi Leonard doesn't move the needle for them one bit. They hardly mention the guy when they all talk about their favorite players. The guy is a great player, but sitting out and never speaking publicly tends to work against a guy's "brand".

 

[Horatio]

That’s reportedly one of the reasons they think Kawhi’s brand hasn’t taken off.

Apparently they’re the last ones to realize their client has the personality of drying paint.

Funny. Rudy Gay joined the Spurs off an Achilles injury and just signed a sneaker deal with the re-emerging Puma brand.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Apparently Grayson Allen and Trae Young got in a scuffle last night, guess who instigated it

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Sources: Tax-strapped OKC, Melo to part ways

Please let Carmelo go to the Lakers'. That would be entertaining.

 

[Husky25]

 

[HooperScooper]

Apparently Grayson Allen and Trae Young got in a scuffle last night, guess who instigated it

Certainly does look like the Tripper instigated it.

Young, Allen T'd up after summer league scuffle

 

[Purple Stein]

That’s reportedly one of the reasons they think Kawhi’s brand hasn’t taken off.

Huh. I thought it was because he doesn’t play basketball.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I am a big fan of the Hornets signing Tony Parker. i do not agree with getting bad to get good. The NBA draft is such a crapshoot now that tanking will not necessarily result in better players. Parker is not a game changer anymore, but he will make the Hornets better right away.


I did a quick check in the last few drafts where we can really start to make some assessments:

2015:

(The ranking is my unscientific ranking of the players drafted that year based on their current ability and production. The numbers on the right are where they were drafted.)

1) Porzingis, drafted #4
2) Booker, #13
3) Anthony Towns, #1
4) TIE Portis #22, Kaminsky #9, Russell #2, Caulley Stein #6, Miles Turner #11, Rozier #16

Like most drafts, there are a bunch of OK players that will be decent starters after the top 3 players, but unlike drafts from the 80's or 90's or even 00's, the stars and serviceable starters are all over the place in the draft and the busts pick up pretty early (Okafor #3).

2014:

This was a stronger draft than 2015, but even then, it was not that linear where you could argue that tanking would have paid off.

1) Embiid #3 (with a huge asterisk that he is one wrong step away from missing a season)
2) Jokic #41
3) Gary Harris #19
4) Aaron Gordon #4
5) Levine #13
6) Randle #7
7) Capella #22
8) Wiggins #1 (bad deep stat numbers)
9) Saric #12

There are some other good players like Jabari Parker. This will turn out to be one of the better drafts of the last 10 years, but tanking heading into it would have been a huge mistake. There were decent pickups like Glenn Robinson, Dinwiddie and Jerami Grant left in the second round in addition to Jokic.

2013:

This has turned into a pretty weak draft, with only 5 players that are really high level starters, although there were 2 superstars. The problem is that no one knew who those players would be.

1) Antetokuonmpo #15
2) Oladipo #2
3) Gobert #27
4) Schroder #22
5) Porter #4

Oladipo and Porter were the closest to sure things in this draft, but the Magic were so underwhelmed that Oladipo was one of 3 players traded for Serge Ibaka. Oladipo didn't really become the player he is until this year, his FIFTH in the NBA.

All of this is a long way of saying that tanking doesn't pay. Thoughts?

 

[Bezzz]

I am a big fan of the Hornets signing Tony Parker.

Except for the rumors of Shabazz to the Hornets is now dead.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

I am a big fan of the Hornets signing Tony Parker. i do not agree with getting bad to get good. The NBA draft is such a crapshoot now that tanking will not necessarily result in better players. Parker is not a game changer anymore, but he will make the Hornets better right away.


I did a quick check in the last few drafts where we can really start to make some assessments:

2015:

(The ranking is my unscientific ranking of the players drafted that year based on their current ability and production. The numbers on the right are where they were drafted.)

1) Porzingis, drafted #4
2) Booker, #13
3) Anthony Towns, #1
4) TIE Portis #22, Kaminsky #9, Russell #2, Caulley Stein #6, Miles Turner #11, Rozier #16

Like most drafts, there are a bunch of OK players that will be decent starters after the top 3 players, but unlike drafts from the 80's or 90's or even 00's, the stars and serviceable starters are all over the place in the draft and the busts pick up pretty early (Okafor #3).

2014:

This was a stronger draft than 2015, but even then, it was not that linear where you could argue that tanking would have paid off.

1) Embiid #3 (with a huge asterisk that he is one wrong step away from missing a season)
2) Jokic #41
3) Gary Harris #19
4) Aaron Gordon #4
5) Levine #13
6) Randle #7
7) Capella #22
8) Wiggins #1 (bad deep stat numbers)
9) Saric #12

There are some other good players like Jabari Parker. This will turn out to be one of the better drafts of the last 10 years, but tanking heading into it would have been a huge mistake. There were decent pickups like Glenn Robinson, Dinwiddie and Jerami Grant left in the second round in addition to Jokic.

2013:

This has turned into a pretty weak draft, with only 5 players that are really high level starters, although there were 2 superstars. The problem is that no one knew who those players would be.

1) Antetokuonmpo #15
2) Oladipo #2
3) Gobert #27
4) Schroder #22
5) Porter #4

Oladipo and Porter were the closest to sure things in this draft, but the Magic were so underwhelmed that Oladipo was one of 3 players traded for Serge Ibaka. Oladipo didn't really become the player he is until this year, his FIFTH in the NBA.

All of this is a long way of saying that tanking doesn't pay. Thoughts?

Towns is better than Kristaps and Booker, significantly. Booker is literally rated as one of the 5 worst defenders in the league, and Kristaps is going to have perennial leg/back issues at his size, as we’ve already seen.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Towns is better than Kristaps and Booker, significantly. Booker is literally rated as one of the 5 worst defenders in the league, and Kristaps is going to have perennial leg/back issues at his size, as we’ve already seen.

Towns has work ethic issues, and Butler no longer wants to play with him, which is a red flag. I am not going to defend Booker either. Porzingas is a huge step ahead of either of them. I don't know if his injury will be career ending or not.

None if that was the point of my post. Any team that was tanking heading into the 2015 draft would have regretted it.

 

[husky429]

I am a big fan of the Hornets signing Tony Parker. i do not agree with getting bad to get good. The NBA draft is such a crapshoot now that tanking will not necessarily result in better players. Parker is not a game changer anymore, but he will make the Hornets better right away.


I did a quick check in the last few drafts where we can really start to make some assessments:

2015:

(The ranking is my unscientific ranking of the players drafted that year based on their current ability and production. The numbers on the right are where they were drafted.)

1) Porzingis, drafted #4
2) Booker, #13
3) Anthony Towns, #1
4) TIE Portis #22, Kaminsky #9, Russell #2, Caulley Stein #6, Miles Turner #11, Rozier #16

Like most drafts, there are a bunch of OK players that will be decent starters after the top 3 players, but unlike drafts from the 80's or 90's or even 00's, the stars and serviceable starters are all over the place in the draft and the busts pick up pretty early (Okafor #3).

2014:

This was a stronger draft than 2015, but even then, it was not that linear where you could argue that tanking would have paid off.

1) Embiid #3 (with a huge asterisk that he is one wrong step away from missing a season)
2) Jokic #41
3) Gary Harris #19
4) Aaron Gordon #4
5) Levine #13
6) Randle #7
7) Capella #22
8) Wiggins #1 (bad deep stat numbers)
9) Saric #12

There are some other good players like Jabari Parker. This will turn out to be one of the better drafts of the last 10 years, but tanking heading into it would have been a huge mistake. There were decent pickups like Glenn Robinson, Dinwiddie and Jerami Grant left in the second round in addition to Jokic.

2013:

This has turned into a pretty weak draft, with only 5 players that are really high level starters, although there were 2 superstars. The problem is that no one knew who those players would be.

1) Antetokuonmpo #15
2) Oladipo #2
3) Gobert #27
4) Schroder #22
5) Porter #4

Oladipo and Porter were the closest to sure things in this draft, but the Magic were so underwhelmed that Oladipo was one of 3 players traded for Serge Ibaka. Oladipo didn't really become the player he is until this year, his FIFTH in the NBA.

All of this is a long way of saying that tanking doesn't pay. Thoughts?

Gobert is that young? Wow. Feels like he's been on the leaguenfor a decade for some reason.

I don't know about Booker/towns/porzingis. It's a crap shoot to me at this point. All of them have MAJOR defeciencies and risks, but also very very high upside

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Gobert is that young? Wow. Feels like he's been on the leaguenfor a decade for some reason.

I don't know about Booker/towns/porzingis. It's a crap shoot to me at this point. All of them have MAJOR defeciencies and risks, but also very very high upside

Exactly. 3 years into their career the 3 best players in the 2015 draft still have significant issues, and it is still possible that one of the other players drafted that year will ultimately be the top player in that class.

Of the 3 classes I listed, only Antetokoumnpo would have justified a full blown tanking even if every GM had a crystal ball into the future prior to the draft. He was picked #15 in 2013, the Bucks had never seen him play, and he grew 3 inches after he was drafted. In other words, the Bucks got lucky.

 

[bballgrda]

From the 2015 class KAT is easily the best player and prospect going forward. Not really sure how you could think otherwise...

 

[nelsonmuntz]

From the 2015 class KAT is easily the best player and prospect going forward. Not really sure how you could think otherwise...

Not sure how, after two long posts on the subject, you come back to Karl Anthony freaking Towns. KAT is not remotely the point of either of my posts. Are you just trolling?

 

[Walker11]

I am a big fan of the Hornets signing Tony Parker. i do not agree with getting bad to get good. The NBA draft is such a crapshoot now that tanking will not necessarily result in better players. Parker is not a game changer anymore, but he will make the Hornets better right away.


I did a quick check in the last few drafts where we can really start to make some assessments:

2015:

(The ranking is my unscientific ranking of the players drafted that year based on their current ability and production. The numbers on the right are where they were drafted.)

1) Porzingis, drafted #4
2) Booker, #13
3) Anthony Towns, #1
4) TIE Portis #22, Kaminsky #9, Russell #2, Caulley Stein #6, Miles Turner #11, Rozier #16

Like most drafts, there are a bunch of OK players that will be decent starters after the top 3 players, but unlike drafts from the 80's or 90's or even 00's, the stars and serviceable starters are all over the place in the draft and the busts pick up pretty early (Okafor #3).

2014:

This was a stronger draft than 2015, but even then, it was not that linear where you could argue that tanking would have paid off.

1) Embiid #3 (with a huge asterisk that he is one wrong step away from missing a season)
2) Jokic #41
3) Gary Harris #19
4) Aaron Gordon #4
5) Levine #13
6) Randle #7
7) Capella #22
8) Wiggins #1 (bad deep stat numbers)
9) Saric #12

There are some other good players like Jabari Parker. This will turn out to be one of the better drafts of the last 10 years, but tanking heading into it would have been a huge mistake. There were decent pickups like Glenn Robinson, Dinwiddie and Jerami Grant left in the second round in addition to Jokic.

2013:

This has turned into a pretty weak draft, with only 5 players that are really high level starters, although there were 2 superstars. The problem is that no one knew who those players would be.

1) Antetokuonmpo #15
2) Oladipo #2
3) Gobert #27
4) Schroder #22
5) Porter #4

Oladipo and Porter were the closest to sure things in this draft, but the Magic were so underwhelmed that Oladipo was one of 3 players traded for Serge Ibaka. Oladipo didn't really become the player he is until this year, his FIFTH in the NBA.

All of this is a long way of saying that tanking doesn't pay. Thoughts?

Tanking obviously can work. Just look at Philly. But you need to talk for multiple seasons in a row. Not many people have the stomach for that. Hinkie's philosophy was largely that the best way to build a high level team is with high draft picks, but high picks are crap shots so you need lots of picks.

I think we are going to be seeing double digits teams tanking for the foreseeable future with the Warriors looking unbeatable and we will be seeing approximately 8 teams every year tank with nothing special to show for it. It is going to make the tank game even more of a crap shoot which may make your point that tanking isn't the optional way to build a team. But if you are a small market team, you may have no better option. The league is just in a weird/bad place.

The hard cap may be necessary. Everyone loves the NFL because of the parity. Almost any team can make a run. Hell, even the Browns fans have an optimistic future. There is no point for 26 NBA teams to suit up.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Tanking obviously can work. Just look at Philly. But you need to talk for multiple seasons in a row. Not many people have the stomach for that. Hinkie's philosophy was largely that the best way to build a high level team is with high draft picks, but high picks are crap shots so you need lots of picks.

I think we are going to be seeing double digits teams tanking for the foreseeable future with the Warriors looking unbeatable and we will be seeing approximately 8 teams every year tank with nothing special to show for it. It is going to make the tank game even more of a crap shoot which may make your point that tanking isn't the optional way to build a team. But if you are a small market team, you may have no better option. The league is just in a weird/bad place.

The hard cap may be necessary. Everyone loves the NFL because of the parity. Almost any team can make a run. Hell, even the Browns fans have an optimistic future. There is no point for 26 NBA teams to suit up.

I agree that teams will continue to tank. I am just saying they will fail miserably if they do. Take the top 9 teams in both conferences. Did any of them get there by tanking? Most drafted well, and a few did it with free agency or trades.

The Warriors situation is a separate issue from tanking. I am not sure there is a rule the NBA can pass to stop what happened with the Warriors, nor am I sure the NBA should.

 

[the Q]

I agree that teams will continue to tank. I am just saying they will fail miserably if they do. Take the top 9 teams in both conferences. Did any of them get there by tanking? Most drafted well, and a few did it with free agency or trades.

The Warriors situation is a separate issue from tanking. I am not sure there is a rule the NBA can pass to stop what happened with the Warriors, nor am I sure the NBA should.

Yeah to some weirdos it’s somehow the NBA’s fault that curry’s Balky knees meant his first extension wasn’t for the max, that the twolves took 2 pgs ahead of curry in one freaking draft, that klay Thompson was picked in the late lottery, draymond green picked in round 2, green took less money to stay in gs, and that the Cap spiked because revenue spiked. And curry had to get injured for the 2016 playoffs, bogut out for like half the finals and green got suspended. Costing them the 3-1 lead.

That’s basically the list of events that required Durant to get to gs. Maybe add in Dwight not taking the max from them and signing iggy instead to a sub max deal.

How much of that is the nbas fault or should have been prevented by the NBA? Mayne do a hatchet job like game 7 in 2010? That’s basiclsly the one way that would’ve stopped Durant from coming.