NBA Finals

[Hoophound]

I'm sure I'll be wrong about this, but my first thought when the game ended last night was "Toronto just blew the series."

I can’t help but feel the same. Now they have to try and go unbeaten at Golden State for the series, that is a tall order. If the Raptors don’t win game 6, then they’ve got to beat a very experienced playoff team full of stone cold killers back in Toronto in game 7. I kind of feel like Toronto losing last night almost assured us of a game 7. I don’t want to face Curry and Thompson in a game 7.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Normally I would say yes but I just don't think the Warriors have enough firepower. They have holes all over the place and Steph and Klay are the only guys who can score. If they somehow pull this off...

On paper I agree and I'll still be somewhat surprised if they do it. But I just think they're as mentally tough a team as we've seen in American sports. And if they can somehow win at home they are not going to rattle in a game 7 on the road.

 

[Walker11]

I'm sure I'll be wrong about this, but my first thought when the game ended last night was "Toronto just blew the series."

Toronto is my favorite team in the league and GSW is my least favorite so you can say I am a tad emotionally invested. I definitely have a pit in my stomach and felt the same last night. I am trying to feign confidence to trick myself.

I do think Toronto is definitely the better team without Looney and especially KD but strange things happen.

I think this is a bit hyperbolic. The Raptors are up 3-2 in the NBA finals with just one premier scorer and with just OK 3 point shooting. They are doing something right.

I agree with your sentiment, i.e., the other guy being wrong but the Raptors have been the best 3 point shooting team in the NBA since the Gasol trade

 

[Walker11]

It is not about motivation to play harder or defend home court or be loyal to a building. These are human beings with emotions. The core group (Curry, Draymond, Klay) has played at Oracle for their entire careers and this is the last game ever in that building. That is absolutely going to provide an emotional lift. If you don't see that you might not understand sports and especially not basketball.

Before the last 2 minutes, Game 4 was the last game in Oracle and we saw how that went. If anything was going to provide an emotional lift it would be the injury and the Toronto fan reaction IMO. Klay is a stoic dude and you can tell he was livid.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

It is not about motivation to play harder or defend home court or be loyal to a building. These are human beings with emotions. The core group (Curry, Draymond, Klay) has played at Oracle for their entire careers and this is the last game ever in that building. That is absolutely going to provide an emotional lift. If you don't see that you might not understand sports and especially not basketball.

I actually think it's mostly sports talk radio BS and doesn't impact the game the way you think it does.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Before the last 2 minutes, Game 4 was the last game in Oracle and we saw how that went. If anything was going to provide an emotional lift it would be the injury and the Toronto fan reaction IMO. Klay is a stoic dude and you can tell he was livid.

They had KD coming back, they are the champs, they expected to be back and also expect to win the series. There is no way game 6 is anything but the last game ever at Oracle and that is a simple fact, very different than game 4. Can't believe I had to write that.

I don't think any of the so called motivational stuff, this included is determinant. Klay wants to beat the Raptors to inflict emotional pain on fans that jeered?! I know he was mad and motivated last night, but of course it is impossible to prove that this enable him to make either of those last two threes. Yes the Warriors want to win it for Durant, but equally impossible to say if that elevates their play or makes a difference vs the other reasons the Warriors want to win or compares favorably or unfavorably to reasons why the Raptors want to win.

I'm not listening or defending a sports radio talking point that the Warriors are going to win or are extra motivated b/c of Oracle. I did listen to various espn radio outlets this AM all making an incredible big deal about the Nick Nurse timeout - all agreed that it unequivocally was a bad move and cost them the game, which is of course impossible to prove, hindsight and thus perfect fodder for sports radio.

I just think the Oracle thing makes a small psychological difference and I'd bet the Warriors are focused, maybe sharper, maybe shoot a little better % in this game. I don't think its determinant, or means they'll try harder etc.. at most it is a 2-3pts in the spread type of factor.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

I think this is a bit hyperbolic. The Raptors are up 3-2 in the NBA finals with just one premier scorer and with just OK 3 point shooting. They are doing something right.

You can trip your way to success, to a point. They don't hand out trophies for being up 3-2. This ain't Syracuse.

Their Offense is ugly and Nurse tends to wet the bed a bit in big moments. Nothing hyperbolic about it.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

And he went 20-20 from the FT line in MSG just a couple of months before the Florida game.

What was he shooting for the season?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You can trip your way to success, to a point. They don't hand out trophies for being up 3-2. This ain't Syracuse.

Their Offense is ugly and Nurse tends to wet the bed a bit in big moments. Nothing hyperbolic about it.

I like the offense, but will agree on Nurse. He has been in panic mode since the second round.

 

[Walker11]

You can trip your way to success, to a point. They don't hand out trophies for being up 3-2. This ain't Syracuse.

Their Offense is ugly and Nurse tends to wet the bed a bit in big moments. Nothing hyperbolic about it.

Their offense is so bad that they put up a 50 40 90 2 games ago. They couldn't hit an open 3 last night. When that happens, things tend to look ugly. Incorrect take by the cumulative eye test and the numbers.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Their offense is so bad that they put up a 50 40 90 2 games ago. They couldn't hit an open 3 last night. When that happens, things tend to look ugly. Incorrect take by the cumulative eye test and the numbers.

I am not just talking about the numbers. I have never seen a team drive to paint and turn down shots to force awkward passes out to the arc. Not to mention this version of the Warriors is not a defensive juggernaut. Putting up numbers against them should be fairly easy for a decent offensive team. The Raptors aren't that.

 

[Walker11]

I am not just talking about the numbers. I have never seen a team drive to paint and turn down shots to force awkward passes out to the arc. Not to mention this version of the Warriors is not a defensive juggernaut. Putting up numbers against them should be fairly easy for a decent offensive team. The Raptors aren't that.

How about the Magic, 76ers, or Bucks? This is not worth engaging further.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

I like the offense, but will agree on Nurse. He has been in panic mode since the second round.

That Offense couldn't score for the final 3.5 of a home game with the title of the line because their only offense is Kawhi. They don't seem have a go to set to get a basket. If you trap Kawhi, they have nothing. GSW are going trap him the entire 4th quarter if the game is close.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

How about the Magic, 76ers, or Bucks? This is not worth engaging further.

Say those teams slowly ..........this is the proof the Raptors Offense isn't ugly? Three teams that haven't accomplished anything. I never said they weren't effective. I said they are ugly. Not to mention Orlando ain't Golden State.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

There is a team that should be stressing about where their points are going to come from heading into game 7 and it’s not Toronto. Some of the takes on this board are head scratching.

 

[navery12]

I am not just talking about the numbers. I have never seen a team drive to paint and turn down shots to force awkward passes out to the arc. Not to mention this version of the Warriors is not a defensive juggernaut. Putting up numbers against them should be fairly easy for a decent offensive team. The Raptors aren't that.

Then clearly you haven't been watching the NBA the last few years. This is the modern offense

 

[8893]

There is a team that should be stressing about where their points are going to come from heading into game 7 and it’s not Toronto. Some of the takes on this board are head scratching.

So you are predicting that the Warriors win game 6?

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

So you are predicting that the Warriors win game 6?

I have no idea. Toronto is a better team right now and Golden State has less to work with but they’re the kind of team I have a hard time picking against until someone actually beats them. No result would surprise me at this point.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Then clearly you haven't been watching the NBA the last few years. This is the modern offense

It is, but not the way the do it. Lowery always looks like he is just closing his eyes and praying the pass hits a teammate......and he is a Point Guard.

 

[superjohn]

We all knew since you could actually see it rupture through his compression pants but here is confirmation.

Kevin Durant confirms ruptured Achilles: ‘Road back starts now’

OAKLAND, Calif. — The NBA’s worst fears have been confirmed. Kevin Durant, who left in the second quarter of the Warriors’ Game 5 win in Toronto on Monday, indeed ruptured his Achilles tendon. The …

www.google.com

 

[Walker11]

We all knew since you could actually see it rupture through his compression pants but here is confirmation.

Kevin Durant confirms ruptured Achilles: ‘Road back starts now’

OAKLAND, Calif. — The NBA’s worst fears have been confirmed. Kevin Durant, who left in the second quarter of the Warriors’ Game 5 win in Toronto on Monday, indeed ruptured his Achilles tendon. The …

www.google.com

Everyone associated with the Dubs states they were told the only risk was calf reinjury. For 2 weeks I have been listening to Windhorst concerned that playing could lead to an achilles tear. Just a strange situation.

 

[Walker11]

Say those teams slowly .....this is the proof the Raptors Offense isn't ugly? Three teams that haven't accomplished anything. I never said they weren't effective. I said they are ugly. Not to mention Orlando ain't Golden State.

Bucks had the best defensive rating. Orlando was 5 spots better than a much healthier GSW team.

Raptors had the 5th best offensive rating. Best post Gasol. Literally every number disagrees with you. And the eye test doesn't work when you watch 1 game. They are generating a huge number of open 3s, especially corner. Good offense isn't always made buckets. Drive and kick is a pretty damn good strategy when the Warriors are switching everything and relying on bigs to contain Lowry.

 

[superjohn]

Everyone associated with the Dubs states they were told the only risk was calf reinjury. For 2 weeks I have been listening to Windhorst concerned that playing could lead to an achilles tear. Just a strange situation.

I don't like the blame game. I highly doubt the doctors are incompetent or liars. I'll trust their medical knowledge over Brian Windhorst's.

 

[Walker11]

I don't like the blame game. I highly doubt the doctors are incompetent or liars. I'll trust their medical knowledge over Brian Windhorst's.

KD got checked out by his own doctors too. Clearly it's not the Warriors solely at fault. Windhorst isn't a doctor as far as I know - he was just stating that the medical people he talked to said the typical concern playing with a calf injury is an achilles injury. All the coverage on the calf injury was so vague so who knows what happened. I too highly doubt they are liars.

 

[Rocktheworld]

The team doctors are tasked with answering the question of whether or not Kevin Durant can play; it’s up to the Warriors, and especially Kevin Durant himself, to decide whether or not he should play.

The doctors’ primary failure was the apparent advice that he couldn’t have injured anything further. That makes no freaking sense. The calves attach to the Achilles tendon... how could they think it impossible an unstable tendon could rupture in such sudden intense action?

But we know that Kevin Durant was shutting out everyone, all over television and the internet, and even within his inner circle, telling him that playing was a bad idea.

Courage is a virtue. But perversion of this virtue leads to rash or cowardly behavior. KD was rash and was trying to prove that he wasn’t soft; but to whom? We heard reports that there were people in the organization and in the locker room who were questioning how hard he was trying to get back. Questioning if Klay or Draymond would take this long to come back. Draymond Green saying that 70% KD is better than most of the NBA... they planted those seeds in his head. And that’s not mentioning the drama during the season.

So this all starts with the Warriors trying to get him back to play one game to keep them alive. If they weren’t down 3-1, he wouldn’t have played; that’s all you need to know.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Bucks had the best defensive rating. Orlando was 5 spots better than a much healthier GSW team.

Raptors had the 5th best offensive rating. Best post Gasol. Literally every number disagrees with you. And the eye test doesn't work when you watch 1 game. They are generating a huge number of open 3s, especially corner. Good offense isn't always made buckets. Drive and kick is a pretty damn good strategy when the Warriors are switching everything and relying on bigs to contain Lowry.

You ever think a lot of those shots are wide open because Golden State doesn't respect them as shooters? Wide open shots don't necessarily mean your offense isn't ugly. They also don't matter much if your team can't shot!

You are a numbers person and I respect that. But basketball is the sport where numbers can be very deceptive. if you look at the box score Kawhi had a really good game. Outside of two stretches of that game, do you really think he had a good night?

As for best Defense, last season 16 teams averaged 105 points or better. This season that number was 26 teams. Yes the rankings are relative, but none of these teams, including the Bucks, are really good at Defense. Which why it is possible to have an ugly offense and still win the title.

 

[Walker11]

You ever think a lot of those shots are wide open because Golden State doesn't respect them as shooters? Wide open shots don't necessarily mean your offense isn't ugly. They also don't matter much if your team can't shot!

You are a numbers person and I respect that. But basketball is the sport where numbers can be very deceptive. if you look at the box score Kawhi had a really good game. Outside of two stretches of that game, do you really think he had a good night?

As for best Defense, last season 16 teams averaged 105 points or better. This season that number was 26 teams. Yes the rankings are relative, but none of these teams, including the Bucks, are really good at Defense. Which why it is possible to have an ugly offense and still win the title.

I honestly think a decent amount of the analytics are stupid and not helpful. The irony of this debate is that am often on your side, i.e. I think you need to watch the games to correctly apply the number takes.

If Siakam or Serge are wide open from 3 it is likely strategy and a good one. But the Raptors were literally the best 3 point shooting team in the league after the Gasol trade. The problem is that when you have a multi faceted offense you can't take away everything. The Warriors are trying to take away Kawhi. The 76ers main goal was to take away the Raptors 3 point shots. Their offensive style has looked completely different series to series and that is because they have to react to the defensive scheme.

 

[8893]

What a first half. Holy cow this is going to be a battle.

 

[Walker11]

What a first half. Holy cow this is going to be a battle.

What a fun game to watch. I am terrified every time Klay touches the ball. Some good minutes from Boogie - I am not sure if he can get 3 inches off the ground and he is still effective in the post.

 

[superjohn]

What a fun game to watch. I am terrified every time Klay touches the ball. Some good minutes from Boogie - I am not sure if he can get 3 inches off the ground and he is still effective in the post.

They aren't getting enough looks for Klay, he could have had one of those 30 point halves.

Not sure Boogie can even dunk anymore.