NBA Finals Thread - Celtics vs Mavericks | Page 5 | The Boneyard

NBA Finals Thread - Celtics vs Mavericks

HuskyHawk

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Most are underestimating Porzingas" impact will have on both ends of the floor. It gives the.Cs so many more options and takes the pressure off of Tatum and Brown, which allows them to thrive.
Exactly. Essentially, last year's undermanned C's team just swept the Pacers in a conference final, if "challenged" in each game. This year's Celtics team hasn't played a game in the playoffs yet.
 

Mr. French

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I agree, Porzingis adds a huge element to this series. Him playing 25 minutes and Al going down to 20-25 is a big deal.

I think the Cs are better, but I’m a Luka fan so I want him to do something heroic. I don’t dislike the Cs, so I’m happy with a good, competitive final. But I’m rooting for Dallas in 6/7.
 

temery

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I really hope Celtics win, but I'm fairly sure I'm going find a reason to dislike Mark Cuban either way.

I kind of like the guy up to this point. But he seems like he'll be a really poor loser, or an insufferable winner.
 

HuskyWarrior611

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I agree, Porzingis adds a huge element to this series. Him playing 25 minutes and Al going down to 20-25 is a big deal.

I think the Cs are better, but I’m a Luka fan so I want him to do something heroic. I don’t dislike the Cs, so I’m happy with a good, competitive final. But I’m rooting for Dallas in 6/7.
You have a future in politics, sir.
 

Mr. French

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In all honesty, I have a super weird relationship with the Celtics…certain points I’ve loved them, certain players I love, but they’ve never been my team except when Ray was there and Kemba for about 2 years.

I like Jaylen Brown and I respect Stevens a TON but again I’m not a Celtics fan…and this particular team is good but I’m indifferent to them.

I have way more invested emotionally with Luka.
 
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As a Pacers fan yeah I was expecting the Celtics to flex and sweep in convincing fashion. Instead, 3/4 games came down to wire. Total coin flip that happened to go the Celtics way. Wasn’t impressed with them at all.
They were also coasting and didn’t have Porzingis.
 
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What a joke they’re not playing until Thursday. Typical NBA BS.

I’m a Celts fan but this team is weird. Not sure what’s going to happen here but I’ll watch some for sure.
 

nelsonmuntz

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I really hope Celtics win, but I'm fairly sure I'm going find a reason to dislike Mark Cuban either way.

I kind of like the guy up to this point. But he seems like he'll be a really poor loser, or an insufferable winner.

Silicon Valley (HBO) destroyed Cuban so completely that I can’t help laughing every time Cuban is mentioned. That is probably the most complete and brutal takedown of a public figure through satirizing them in history.
 

Mr. French

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Silicon Valley (HBO) destroyed Cuban so completely that I can’t help laughing every time Cuban is mentioned. That is probably the most complete and brutal takedown of a public figure through satirizing them in history.

I never watched or knew anything about that, but overall Cuban is a great owner, a good guy and great for basketball.
 
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I would list them:

1) Russell - best player on most dominant team in NBA history
2) Wilt - Would have won a lot of titles if not for Russell (and booze and women).
3) Kareem - I like Kareem, but he would occasionally underperform against other top centers of his era, like Moses and the Chief.
4) Hakeem - great player on both ends, and he tuned up some of the best players in NBA history (Shaq, Admiral, Ewing) head-to-head.
5) Shaq - great player, but didn't have range and showed up every fall completely out of shape.
6) Moses Malone - He was a great player on both ends of the court and the best rebounder I can remember.
7) Ewing - People remember the goofy stuff and the Knicks playoff collapses, but Ewing had a great career.
8) Robinson - People forget his greatness because of how humble he was and his aversion to self-promotion. Great defender that adjusted his game late in his career to enable Duncan's first title.
9) Jokic - Incredible offensive player, probably Top 3 on this list offensively. Not nearly the defender that some of these other players were in their prime, though. That said, I expect Jokic to make it to #7 or #6 on this list by the time he is done.

My "what could have been" list for centers:

1) Arvydas Sabonis - May have been the best center of all time, and Portland would have won 4 or 5 titles if he had arrived in 1988 when he was supposed to. By the time he got to the NBA his knees were shot and the hard living was catching up to him. He was still fun to watch.
2) Alonzo Mourning - As good as Robinson defensively, and a very efficient offensive player too. His body betrayed him, he went to a minutes restriction and was a shadow of the player he could have been.
3) Bill Walton - Not caring about his body caught up to him early in his career.
Hard, hard disagree on Ewing.
 
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Hard, hard disagree on Ewing.
Ewing finished in the MVP Top 5 voting 6 times, but never higher than four. He had 1 First Team All-NBA. Never won a title. He was a better defender than Jokic, but never came higher than 5th in DPOY.

Jokić has 4 MVPs in addition to two other Top 5 finishes (4 and 2). He has 4 First Team All-NBA. He was the best player on a title team.

These two are not on the same level, and it's Jokić. He's also ahead of Robinson so far as I can tell. But I can see that being debatable because Robinson won an MVP, had multiple Top 5 finishes, won 2 DPOYs, and was a part of two title teams (though he was diminished in each, and Duncan was the star).
 

Mr. French

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Ewing finished in the MVP Top 5 voting 6 times, but never higher than four. He had 1 First Team All-NBA. Never won a title. He was a better defender than Jokic, but never came higher than 5th in DPOY.

Jokić has 4 MVPs in addition to two other Top 5 finishes (4 and 2). He has 4 First Team All-NBA. He was the best player on a title team.

These two are not on the same level, and it's Jokić. He's also ahead of Robinson so far as I can tell. But I can see that being debatable because Robinson won an MVP, had multiple Top 5 finishes, won 2 DPOYs, and was a part of two title teams (though he was diminished in each, and Duncan was the star).

No one should have Ewing and Robinson, while great, in Jokers category. Moses and Hakeem are where the debates should start.
 
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No one should have Ewing and Robinson, while great, in Jokers category. Moses and Hakeem are where the debates should start.
Hakeem is another level imo. But I am a huge Hakeem guy. I think he’s 3rd or 4th best Center ever.
 

nelsonmuntz

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No one should have Ewing and Robinson, while great, in Jokers category. Moses and Hakeem are where the debates should start.

Robinson was such an awesome defender that I definitely put him in Jokic's category.

If Jokic wins another title, he belongs above Malone. I could even see him sliding above Shaq at some point. He won't pass Hakeem.

Hard, hard disagree on Ewing.

I don't like ranking all time greats based on awards they won, because some aspect of that is always a popularity contest. But digging in on Ewing's stats, I think you are right. He is behind Robinson and behind Jokic if Jokic doesn't play another game. Even Ewing's deep stats aren't great, whereas Robinson's defensive analytics are incredible.
 

HuskyWarrior611

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I don't like ranking all time greats based on awards they won, because some aspect of that is always a popularity contest. But digging in on Ewing's stats, I think you are right. He is behind Robinson and behind Jokic if Jokic doesn't play another game. Even Ewing's deep stats aren't great, whereas Robinson's defensive analytics are incredible.
To this point, I think people are going to look back on this season thinking how in the world did Luka not win MVP.

He almost averaged a 35 point triple double. Hardly any talk about that.
 
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To this point, I think people are going to look back on this season thinking how in the world did Luka not win MVP.

He almost averaged a 35 point triple double. Hardly any talk about that.

+ he will win a championship and a finals MVP
 
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To this point, I think people are going to look back on this season thinking how in the world did Luka not win MVP.

He almost averaged a 35 point triple double. Hardly any talk about that.
Eh, Jokić was deserving.

Jokić: 26.4 ppg, 12.9 rpg, 9 apg with 58/36/82 splits (61.2 eFG%). 31 PER, 17 WS. 57 win team.
Luka: 33.9 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 9.8 apg on 49/38/79 splits (57.3 eFG%). 28.1 PER, 12 WS. 50 win team.

Luka played 3 more mpg and appeared in 9 fewer games.
 

WeAreUCONN

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Are they? No one picking them except the sharps
I quit betting but I would take the Mavs because they play better defense and have the two best players on either team.
 
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I quit betting but I would take the Mavs because they play better defense and have the two best players on either team.
Do they play better defense than the Celtics? I thought everyone says Irving and Doncic aren't good defenders. Are there some stats to show the Mavs are better defensively than the Celtics?

Also, is Irving better than Tatum? I don't think many people would say that, including all the people that vote for the All NBA teams.

 
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WeAreUCONN

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Do they play better defense than the Celtics? I thought everyone says Kyrie and Luka aren't good defenders. Are there some stats to show the Mavs are better defensively than the Celtics?
My eye test says the Mavs play better defense. Edward's was horrible against the Mavs and Kyrie was responsible for that. Luka picks his spots but he gets rebounds and steals. Brown and Tatum are both lousy shooters and that will be their downfall.
 

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