NBA Finals Thread - Celtics vs Mavericks | Page 4 | The Boneyard

NBA Finals Thread - Celtics vs Mavericks

superjohn said:
He's been the best interview during the playoffs. I agree he acted annoying in the past and showed he had the God complex we've seen from Kanye and some other young entertainers but I've really enjoyed the things he's said during this playoffs run.
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Agree. Remarkable player, but never been a fan of the dude. During this playoff run, he's actually seemed much less hate-able lately
 
Yardigan said:
Agree. Remarkable player, but never been a fan of the dude. During this playoff run, he's actually seemed much less hate-able lately
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That’s how I am. Used to hate him because he went out of his way to say dumb things and act like everyone else was the dope.

Now he seems like a genuinely good teammate and seems happy, etc. so it’s interesting.

I don’t forget the other stuff, but I hope he’s grown and matured and realized some things. For that, he can be applauded.
 
Celtics center Kristaps Porzingis was a full participant at practice Saturday, according to coach Joe Mazzulla.

Mazzulla said Porzingis looked good going through drills with the team, but noted that the intensity level at practice wasn’t as high as it will be in the coming days.

“He did everything the team did. We’ll go significantly harder [Sunday],” Mazzulla said. “Today was moderate but he went through everything that the team did today.”

www.boston.com

All systems go for Kristaps Porzingis at Celtics practice

Kristaps Porzingis "went through everything that the team did" at Celtics practice Saturday. Read more on Boston.com.
www.boston.com
 
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Matrim55 said:
I will grant you these seven:

1. Kareem
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem
6. Moses
7. Mikan

The only other guys I could plausibly see ahead of Joker are Walton & Robinson, but that feels like we're stretching it. And he's definitely passed Willis, Unseld, Ewing, McAdoo & Cowens.
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I would list them:

1) Russell - best player on most dominant team in NBA history
2) Wilt - Would have won a lot of titles if not for Russell (and booze and women).
3) Kareem - I like Kareem, but he would occasionally underperform against other top centers of his era, like Moses and the Chief.
4) Hakeem - great player on both ends, and he tuned up some of the best players in NBA history (Shaq, Admiral, Ewing) head-to-head.
5) Shaq - great player, but didn't have range and showed up every fall completely out of shape.
6) Moses Malone - He was a great player on both ends of the court and the best rebounder I can remember.
7) Ewing - People remember the goofy stuff and the Knicks playoff collapses, but Ewing had a great career.
8) Robinson - People forget his greatness because of how humble he was and his aversion to self-promotion. Great defender that adjusted his game late in his career to enable Duncan's first title.
9) Jokic - Incredible offensive player, probably Top 3 on this list offensively. Not nearly the defender that some of these other players were in their prime, though. That said, I expect Jokic to make it to #7 or #6 on this list by the time he is done.

My "what could have been" list for centers:

1) Arvydas Sabonis - May have been the best center of all time, and Portland would have won 4 or 5 titles if he had arrived in 1988 when he was supposed to. By the time he got to the NBA his knees were shot and the hard living was catching up to him. He was still fun to watch.
2) Alonzo Mourning - As good as Robinson defensively, and a very efficient offensive player too. His body betrayed him, he went to a minutes restriction and was a shadow of the player he could have been.
3) Bill Walton - Not caring about his body caught up to him early in his career.
 
Karmacop said:
Boston has the best record since February 9, at 25-6. Dallas had the third-best record in that time span, at 21-9 (OKC was 22-9).

As for defensive rating, Dallas and Boston are exactly tied for sixth with a 110.5 defensive rating. However, Boston's offensive rating was much better during that period (125.4 to 115.9), putting Boston 1st and Dallas 7th.

So the net rating during that time puts Boston first, with Dallas sixth (behind Denver(2), Minnesota (3), OKC (4), and Indiana (5)).

So while Dallas has definitely improved since the trade deadline, Boston has been just as good defensively and better in every other metric. And that's with resting most of their starters for multple games near the end of the regular season while Dallas played their starters for playoff position.

Not taking anything away from the threat posed by Dallas, but Boston is the better team, and that includes since the trade deadline.

View attachment 101144
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The Celtics have really been in their own class all year, as evidenced by the absurd net rating in the given time frame.

But those numbers are also skewed a bit by Boston's depth. The attrition of an 82-game season likely didn't effect them nearly as much as a team like Dallas that relies so heavily on two star players. Luka and Kyrie missed a combined 36 games. From the time Kyrie returned from injury in early February through the day they clinched a top six spot in game 80, the Mavs were 23-6 with a 7.8 net when both guys played.

(For further proof of this, consider that the Mavs were outscored by a total of 67 points in games 81 and 82 when Luka and Kyrie sat, while the Celtics were a +43 over the same two game period despite resting all their guys.)
 
IndyLives said:
Most are underestimating Porzingas" impact will have on both ends of the floor. It gives the.Cs so many more options and takes the pressure off of Tatum and Brown, which allows them to thrive.
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Exactly. Essentially, last year's undermanned C's team just swept the Pacers in a conference final, if "challenged" in each game. This year's Celtics team hasn't played a game in the playoffs yet.
 
I agree, Porzingis adds a huge element to this series. Him playing 25 minutes and Al going down to 20-25 is a big deal.

I think the Cs are better, but I’m a Luka fan so I want him to do something heroic. I don’t dislike the Cs, so I’m happy with a good, competitive final. But I’m rooting for Dallas in 6/7.
 
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I really hope Celtics win, but I'm fairly sure I'm going find a reason to dislike Mark Cuban either way.

I kind of like the guy up to this point. But he seems like he'll be a really poor loser, or an insufferable winner.
 
Mr. French said:
I agree, Porzingis adds a huge element to this series. Him playing 25 minutes and Al going down to 20-25 is a big deal.

I think the Cs are better, but I’m a Luka fan so I want him to do something heroic. I don’t dislike the Cs, so I’m happy with a good, competitive final. But I’m rooting for Dallas in 6/7.
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You have a future in politics, sir.
 
In all honesty, I have a super weird relationship with the Celtics…certain points I’ve loved them, certain players I love, but they’ve never been my team except when Ray was there and Kemba for about 2 years.

I like Jaylen Brown and I respect Stevens a TON but again I’m not a Celtics fan…and this particular team is good but I’m indifferent to them.

I have way more invested emotionally with Luka.
 
UofCT said:
As a Pacers fan yeah I was expecting the Celtics to flex and sweep in convincing fashion. Instead, 3/4 games came down to wire. Total coin flip that happened to go the Celtics way. Wasn’t impressed with them at all.
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They were also coasting and didn’t have Porzingis.
 
What a joke they’re not playing until Thursday. Typical NBA BS.

I’m a Celts fan but this team is weird. Not sure what’s going to happen here but I’ll watch some for sure.
 
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temery said:
I really hope Celtics win, but I'm fairly sure I'm going find a reason to dislike Mark Cuban either way.

I kind of like the guy up to this point. But he seems like he'll be a really poor loser, or an insufferable winner.
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Silicon Valley (HBO) destroyed Cuban so completely that I can’t help laughing every time Cuban is mentioned. That is probably the most complete and brutal takedown of a public figure through satirizing them in history.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Silicon Valley (HBO) destroyed Cuban so completely that I can’t help laughing every time Cuban is mentioned. That is probably the most complete and brutal takedown of a public figure through satirizing them in history.
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I never watched or knew anything about that, but overall Cuban is a great owner, a good guy and great for basketball.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
I would list them:

1) Russell - best player on most dominant team in NBA history
2) Wilt - Would have won a lot of titles if not for Russell (and booze and women).
3) Kareem - I like Kareem, but he would occasionally underperform against other top centers of his era, like Moses and the Chief.
4) Hakeem - great player on both ends, and he tuned up some of the best players in NBA history (Shaq, Admiral, Ewing) head-to-head.
5) Shaq - great player, but didn't have range and showed up every fall completely out of shape.
6) Moses Malone - He was a great player on both ends of the court and the best rebounder I can remember.
7) Ewing - People remember the goofy stuff and the Knicks playoff collapses, but Ewing had a great career.
8) Robinson - People forget his greatness because of how humble he was and his aversion to self-promotion. Great defender that adjusted his game late in his career to enable Duncan's first title.
9) Jokic - Incredible offensive player, probably Top 3 on this list offensively. Not nearly the defender that some of these other players were in their prime, though. That said, I expect Jokic to make it to #7 or #6 on this list by the time he is done.

My "what could have been" list for centers:

1) Arvydas Sabonis - May have been the best center of all time, and Portland would have won 4 or 5 titles if he had arrived in 1988 when he was supposed to. By the time he got to the NBA his knees were shot and the hard living was catching up to him. He was still fun to watch.
2) Alonzo Mourning - As good as Robinson defensively, and a very efficient offensive player too. His body betrayed him, he went to a minutes restriction and was a shadow of the player he could have been.
3) Bill Walton - Not caring about his body caught up to him early in his career.
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Hard, hard disagree on Ewing.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
Hard, hard disagree on Ewing.
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Ewing finished in the MVP Top 5 voting 6 times, but never higher than four. He had 1 First Team All-NBA. Never won a title. He was a better defender than Jokic, but never came higher than 5th in DPOY.

Jokić has 4 MVPs in addition to two other Top 5 finishes (4 and 2). He has 4 First Team All-NBA. He was the best player on a title team.

These two are not on the same level, and it's Jokić. He's also ahead of Robinson so far as I can tell. But I can see that being debatable because Robinson won an MVP, had multiple Top 5 finishes, won 2 DPOYs, and was a part of two title teams (though he was diminished in each, and Duncan was the star).
 
tzznandrew said:
Ewing finished in the MVP Top 5 voting 6 times, but never higher than four. He had 1 First Team All-NBA. Never won a title. He was a better defender than Jokic, but never came higher than 5th in DPOY.

Jokić has 4 MVPs in addition to two other Top 5 finishes (4 and 2). He has 4 First Team All-NBA. He was the best player on a title team.

These two are not on the same level, and it's Jokić. He's also ahead of Robinson so far as I can tell. But I can see that being debatable because Robinson won an MVP, had multiple Top 5 finishes, won 2 DPOYs, and was a part of two title teams (though he was diminished in each, and Duncan was the star).
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No one should have Ewing and Robinson, while great, in Jokers category. Moses and Hakeem are where the debates should start.
 
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Mr. French said:
No one should have Ewing and Robinson, while great, in Jokers category. Moses and Hakeem are where the debates should start.
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Hakeem is another level imo. But I am a huge Hakeem guy. I think he’s 3rd or 4th best Center ever.
 
Mr. French said:
No one should have Ewing and Robinson, while great, in Jokers category. Moses and Hakeem are where the debates should start.
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Robinson was such an awesome defender that I definitely put him in Jokic's category.

If Jokic wins another title, he belongs above Malone. I could even see him sliding above Shaq at some point. He won't pass Hakeem.

CardiacAndre7 said:
Hard, hard disagree on Ewing.
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I don't like ranking all time greats based on awards they won, because some aspect of that is always a popularity contest. But digging in on Ewing's stats, I think you are right. He is behind Robinson and behind Jokic if Jokic doesn't play another game. Even Ewing's deep stats aren't great, whereas Robinson's defensive analytics are incredible.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
I don't like ranking all time greats based on awards they won, because some aspect of that is always a popularity contest. But digging in on Ewing's stats, I think you are right. He is behind Robinson and behind Jokic if Jokic doesn't play another game. Even Ewing's deep stats aren't great, whereas Robinson's defensive analytics are incredible.
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To this point, I think people are going to look back on this season thinking how in the world did Luka not win MVP.

He almost averaged a 35 point triple double. Hardly any talk about that.
 
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