NBA Discussion 2016/2017

[Matrim55]

Dunn versus Napier. Insane move.

Between this & Kemba's Nick Young moment, not a great week for our guys on Vine...

 

[James]

I would not be excited if i was thibs and my pg was doing that.

 

[UConn990411]

Watched the entire second half of the Hornets-Bulls - my god the Hornets supporting cast is terrible. I also continue to be underwhelmed by Clifford as a coach, even though he gets so much praise.

Butler is an absolute stud, though. It's a shame he's wasting away in a dysfunctional Bulls organization.

 

[JSM1970]

Yup. Supposedly C's could have gotten him with #3 (Brown), #16 (French stash) and Crowder

Crazy they passed on that

Brown is terrible, no idea if stash will ever play here and Butler is better than Crowder straight up

Butler is an absolute stud, though. It's a shame he's wasting away in a dysfunctional Bulls organization.

 

[James]

Walkers team is still 4th in the east and his numbers are pretty freaking solid ( 23 ppg 5 and 5 with a 59 TS%), He really needs to have a couple of monster games maybe a 50 burger to get him to the ASG over wall. IT is in a huge market, so his 50 pt game means more but if KW strings together some good games this next month his numbers will undeniable. wont even matter if he misses the ASG he'll still make an all nba team.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Walkers team is still 4th in the east and his numbers are pretty freaking solid ( 23 ppg 5 and 5 with a 59 TS%), He really needs to have a couple of monster games maybe a 50 burger to get him to the ASG over wall. IT is in a huge market, so his 50 pt game means more but if KW strings together some good games this next month his numbers will undeniable. wont even matter if he misses the ASG he'll still make an all nba team.

Also IT is just on an absolute tear of late and without question deserves to be an All Star

 

[James]

Also IT is just on an absolute tear of late and without question deserves to be an All Star

my point is his 50 point game and scoring woes people because he is in a big market, if IT is on a tear what do you call walker shooting 42% from three while 11th in makes per game? walker IT and wall are all on similar ground.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

my point is his 50 point game and scoring woes people because he is in a big market, if IT is on a tear what do you call walker shooting 42% from three while 11th in makes per game? walker IT and wall are all on similar ground.

Never did I say Walker wasn't killing it, I just said IT was on a tear, moreso at this point thatn Kemba. IT is the most deserving out of the 3 currently IMO.

 

[UConn990411]

Yup. Supposedly C's could have gotten him with #3 (Brown), #16 (French stash) and Crowder

Crazy they passed on that

Brown is terrible, no idea if stash will ever play here and Butler is better than Crowder straight up

If only your troll opinions were ever supported by facts.

 

[JSM1970]

Troll is stating opinions? He was the 3rd pick, isn't anything less than 3 a negative? Your genius self says because he's 6th that's good?

He plays a position they have a solid guy (Crowder) @ locked up for 4 years ahead of him. He can't shoot, they needed shooters. It was a terrible pick for them. I would have taken Hield, Chriss, Murray or Bender over him at a minimum, but would have made the deal for Butler in a second.

I also would have taken Skal with either the 16th or 23rd rather than these Euro stashes we'll be lucky to ever see again.

If only your troll opinions were ever supported by facts.View attachment 18216

 

[UConn990411]

Troll is stating opinions? He was the 3rd pick, isn't anything less than 3 a negative? Your genius self says because he's 6th that's good?

He plays a position they have a solid guy (Crowder) @ locked up for 4 years ahead of him. He can't shoot, they needed shooters. It was a terrible pick for them. I would have taken Hield, Chriss, Murray or Bender over him at a minimum, but would have made the deal for Butler in a second.

I also would have taken Skal with either the 16th or 23rd rather than these Euro stashes we'll be lucky to ever see again.

I'm not entirely sold on Brown being a starting-caliber player, but he just turned 20 in October. The fact that you're acting like he's not going to improve proves that you're either 10 years old or don't really follow the NBA. And you clearly don't have a semblance of understanding of the Celtics' lack of open roster spots, which is why they took those two Euro players.

I should've blocked you after you said "the Boston media hates him!!" in your argument against Jaylen, but it's not too late to correct that mistake.

 

[JSM1970]

Lack of roster spots, but let's sign Demetrius Jackson so we can officially start a team of all PGs if we want to

Also, what are they doing with James Young exactly, another terrible pick?

I'm not entirely sold on Brown being a starting-caliber player, but he just turned 20 in October. The fact that you're acting like he's not going to improve proves that you're either 10 years old or don't really follow the NBA. And you clearly don't have a semblance of understanding of the Celtics' lack of open roster spots, which is why they took those two Euro players.

I should've blocked you after you said "the Boston media hates him!!" in your argument against Jaylen, but it's not too late to correct that mistake.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I'm not entirely sold on Brown being a starting-caliber player, but he just turned 20 in October. The fact that you're acting like he's not going to improve proves that you're either 10 years old or don't really follow the NBA.

And the Celtics organization is far higher on Brown than this clown-cake.

 

[James]

Brown was a fine pick, especially in what will be deemed one of the worst drafts ever imo. He has physical tools ( real tools, not "enoch tools") and age on his side. All those guys JSM wanted over Brown are actually worst than brown, chriss? really? Its almost like he doesn't realize how old brown is.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Brown was a fine pick, especially in what will be deemed one of the worst drafts ever imo. He has physical tools ( real tools, not "enoch tools") and age on his side. All those guys JSM wanted over Brown are actually worst than brown, chriss? really? Its almost like he doesn't realize how old brown is.

I like Chriss alot, but I also like Brown alot, think both will be very good.

 

[JSM1970]

Oh, because he's young and can't shoot he can be older and still can't shoot

Chriss is 19

Brown was a fine pick, especially in what will be deemed one of the worst drafts ever imo. He has physical tools ( real tools, not "enoch tools") and age on his side. All those guys JSM wanted over Brown are actually worst than brown, chriss? really? Its almost like he doesn't realize how old brown is.

 

[JSM1970]

Sure azzclown, I'm guessing they were high on James Young and RJ Hunter at one point too

what are they supposed to say or do at this point about him? Oh, yes, we drafted a kid who can't shoot, but he's young.

would you rather have Butler over him, the stash and Crowder? Simple question

And the Celtics organization is far higher on Brown than this clown-cake.

 

[James]

@JSM1970 ainge tried getting butler, it wasn't happening. he made a pretty good draft choice, atleast he didn't get dunn.

 

[BUConn10]

Walker cooling down second half of the pre-all star stretch while IT elevating his game during this period may cost Kemba a spot in the ASG, I sure hope not. I really don't see how both KW and IT can get all star bids, they seem to fill the same niche role as stars and guys like Kyrie and Rose will get major votes even if they don't suit up for a single game simply because. Lots of competition for guys this year.

 

[James]

Walker cooling down second half of the pre-all star stretch while IT elevating his game during this period may cost Kemba a spot in the ASG, I sure hope not. I really don't see how both KW and IT can get all star bids, they seem to fill the same niche role as stars and guys like Kyrie and Rose will get major votes even if they don't suit up for a single game simply because. Lots of competition for guys this year.

IT really scores alot, shoots 90%+ at the line (hence his great TS%) but his overall game is not better than walkers. I have many metrics that back this, including RPM, VORP, and BPM. but people who dont really delve into stats wont get this, they see IT scoring so much and think he's a better player, when actual advanced metrics support its wall vs Walker for second best pg in the east.

 

[champs99and04]

Walker cooling down second half of the pre-all star stretch while IT elevating his game during this period may cost Kemba a spot in the ASG, I sure hope not. I really don't see how both KW and IT can get all star bids, they seem to fill the same niche role as stars and guys like Kyrie and Rose will get major votes even if they don't suit up for a single game simply because. Lots of competition for guys this year.

Has Kemba really cooled down, though? Granted he hasn't been putting up the same numbers as IT, but he went for 37 last night and his numbers on the year are still extremely good.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Has Kemba really cooled down, though? Granted he hasn't been putting up the same numbers as IT, but he went for 37 last night and his numbers on the year are still extremely good.

Before the last couple games Kemba had slowed down a bit, not substantial but his peak was earlier in the year. All the top PG's in the east are performing this year, it's gonna be tough to weed them out come ASW.

 

[BUConn10]

IT really scores alot, shoots 90%+ at the line (hence his great TS%) but his overall game is not better than walkers. I have many metrics that back this, including RPM, VORP, and BPM. but people who dont really delve into stats wont get this, they see IT scoring so much and think he's a better player, when actual advanced metrics support its wall vs Walker for second best pg in the east.

I agree, but the people who make up the bulk of NBA ASG voting have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[nomar]

Yup. Supposedly C's could have gotten him with #3 (Brown), #16 (French stash) and Crowder

Crazy they passed on that

Brown is terrible, no idea if stash will ever play here and Butler is better than Crowder straight up

That would be crazy if it were true. If you think the Celts had an offer on the table from the Bulls that didn't include one or both of the next Nets picks, you're nuts.

 

[Walker11]

Kemba's "bad stretch" was basically him doing what he did last year, when he was quite good and a borderline All Star but less efficient on jumpers. I don't mind IT getting a nod over Kemba even though his size kills him on D. They both deserve it more than Kyrie but we know that isn't happening. Lowry is on another level and has been playing like a top 5 player in the League.

Kyrie is an interesting guy to talk about. There was a piece on him two weeks ago about how advanced stats see him. Hint - its not good. I feel he is underrated by a lot of the general hoops media and overrated by casual fans. His best skill is arguably the most important skill in playoff basketball but his lack of D really drags down his value in the regular season. Compare Lowry vs. Kyrie over the past two seasons, both playoffs and regular season. Lowry is far better in the regular season and Kyrie is far better in the playoffs.

 

[champs99and04]

Kemba's "bad stretch" was basically him doing what he did last year, when he was quite good and a borderline All Star but less efficient on jumpers. I don't mind IT getting a nod over Kemba even though his size kills him on D. They both deserve it more than Kyrie but we know that isn't happening. Lowry is on another level and has been playing like a top 5 player in the League.

Kyrie is an interesting guy to talk about. There was a piece on him two weeks ago about how advanced stats see him. Hint - its not good. I feel he is underrated by a lot of the general hoops media and overrated by casual fans. His best skill is arguably the most important skill in playoff basketball but his lack of D really drags down his value in the regular season. Compare Lowry vs. Kyrie over the past two seasons, both playoffs and regular season. Lowry is far better in the regular season and Kyrie is far better in the playoffs.

Kyrie is a fascinating figure. I think he's one of those guys who is emblematic of the limitations of advanced stats. How many other guys on the planet win that series against Golden State last year, even with LeBron? I don't think Kemba does. Reminded me a bit of Dirk a few years ago. We knew there were guys better than him, but for a couple months he sure looked like the best damn player in the universe. Not trying to say that what Kyrie did was nearly as impressive, but the higher the stakes, the faster all of the advanced scouting and x's and o's tend to regress to pure driveway ball.

There is a certain moment of truth to the game that is obviously easier to delay/obscure during an 82 game regular season.

 

[Walker11]

Kyrie is a fascinating figure. I think he's one of those guys who is emblematic of the limitations of advanced stats. How many other guys on the planet win that series against Golden State last year, even with LeBron? I don't think Kemba does. Reminded me a bit of Dirk a few years ago. We knew there were guys better than him, but for a couple months he sure looked like the best damn player in the universe. Not trying to say that what Kyrie did was nearly as impressive, but the higher the stakes, the faster all of the advanced scouting and x's and o's tend to regress to pure driveway ball.

There is a certain moment of truth to the game that is obviously easier to delay/obscure during an 82 game regular season.

I think Kyrie is the best iso scoring guard in the League. I don't know if the stats bear that out but I can't think of any other G who has the combination of shot creation and difficult shot making.

 

[champs99and04]

I think Kyrie is the best iso scoring guard in the League. I don't know if the stats bear that out but I can't think of any other G who has the combination of shot creation and difficult shot making.

Yup, and that's an invaluable skill to have in high leverage spots when things get more compact & less is called. You clearly notice a difference with a guy like Curry - the oxygen that's there for him in the regular season tends to dissipate against teams who are well-coordinated against Golden State's motion and screening algorithms.

It isn't that Kyrie is the best player in basketball so much as his combination of handle, agility, and shot-making that you mentioned make him context proof. There is no situation, no defense, no anything that can negate what he does well. With a guy like Durant, you always expect his weaknesses - handle, body, etc. - to be illuminated when it's winning time. Plus, the fact that he's a guard empowers him with an autonomy that doesn't exist with a big or even a wing - if you're throwing the ball into Cousins late in the game, you're going to have to be pragmatic about it, and by the time he gets it, now maybe you have a double coming and it's too late in the clock to do anything about it.

I don't have any stats to back this up, either, but shooting percentages go down in high leverage spots because anything and everything that can be exposed - both individually and within the team structure - does. That doesn't seem to exist with Kyrie and it makes him unique.

 

[bballgrda]

I think Kyrie is the best iso scoring guard in the League. I don't know if the stats bear that out but I can't think of any other G who has the combination of shot creation and difficult shot making.

I dont his exact iso stats and too lazy to look it up. But pretty sure it was brought up in a recent Dunc'd On episode and his iso scoring stats (points per possession) were impressive.

Edit: bothered to look it up. Kyrie at 1.18 ppp.

NBA.com/Stats | Players Isolation

 

[Walker11]

I dont his exact iso stats and too lazy to look it up. But pretty sure it was brought up in a recent Dunc'd On episode and his iso scoring stats (points per possession) were insane.

TrueHoop. This is what I'm talking about when I say some NBA media underrate Kyrie. These guys said they would rather start a team with Hayward. Maybe an argument for regular season but if your goal is to win a championship, I don't see how he moves the needle. Edit. Maybe Dunc'd on as well, but I didn't hear.