Music Mount Rushmores by state

[whaler11]

There's a difference between being "good" artistically and selling tickets. It's why I don't think that Bon Jovi necessarily belongs on any Rushmore.

That said, Billy Joel is much better than Nickelback.

obviously... arianna grande is popular.

but building a mt rushmore has to include fame -

saying a shady glen cheeseburger should be on the mt rushmore and not the big mac is just listing 4 things you like not building a mt rushmore.

 

[tzznandrew]

obviously... arianna grande is popular.

but building a mt rushmore has to include fame -

saying a shady glen cheeseburger should be on the mt rushmore and not the big mac is just listing 4 things you like not building a mt rushmore.

Well...fame necessarily has to be--and should be--a factor. But a Mt. Rushmore ought to be factoring more than fame. It has to factor in innovation and influence. Which means it is also going to be era specific. Ultimately, a Rushmore tells you more about the person building it than it does the people on it.

 

[whaler11]

Well...fame necessarily has to be--and should be--a factor. But a Mt. Rushmore ought to be factoring more than fame. It has to factor in innovation and influence. Which means it is also going to be era specific. Ultimately, a Rushmore tells you more about the person building it than it does the people on it.

there is no case for southside johnny over bon jovi than i like him better.

 

[tzznandrew]

there is no case for southside johnny over bon jovi than i like him better.

I have no flipping idea who "Southside Johnny" is so I'm in no place to argue his case.

There are all sorts of bands that are more listened to now than they were when they first came out, and there are bands that influenced others through their cult status enough that they've become themselves famous. There are too many examples to make any single notation worthwhile.

It's the same with movies. Bon Jovi sucks enough and there are enough other bands at that time doing interesting things at the same time that I have little doubt very few people will care about Mr. Bovine Joni in like 50 years.

You can just look at who were the top sellers at the time current popular bands were playing to see that this is the case.

 

[whaler11]

I have no flipping idea who "Southside Johnny" is so I'm in no place to argue his case.

There are all sorts of bands that are more listened to now than they were when they first came out, and there are bands that influenced others through their cult status enough that they've become themselves famous. There are too many examples to make any single notation worthwhile.

It's the same with movies. Bon Jovi sucks enough and there are enough other bands at that time doing interesting things at the same time that I have little doubt very few people will care about Mr. Bovine Joni in like 50 years.

You can just look at who were the top sellers at the time current popular bands were playing to see that this is the case.

Come on - Bon Jovi still has huge anthems that are screamed by hundreds of thousands of people at stadiums year round.

If you wanna say there are four better candidates for New Jersey because they have Bruce, Simon, Sinatra and others that’s fine. But it can’t be because you personally think they ‘suck’.

And of course it’s just the shared experience of the current people currently discussing. 50 years from now who knows if anyone will give a damn about Paul Simon. It’s not like Sinatra is at the height of his popularity.

 

[imno1]

Don’t want to start another thread but who’s on your Boy Band Mount Rushmore

 

[Guapo]

It’s not like Sinatra is at the height of his popularity.
[/QUOTE]

I gotta say, takes like "actually Sinatra is chick feces" are the reason I read the internet.

Thank you @whaler11

 

[whaler11]

It’s not like Sinatra is at the height of his popularity.

I gotta say, takes like "actually Sinatra is chick feces" are the reason I read the internet.

Thank you @whaler11
[/QUOTE]

What are you talking about? I like Sinatra a lot. The people who loved him most are dying quickly.

Time marches on. In 20-30 years there are going to be other huge acts from NJ and Sinatra will be someone most of the people never really listened to.

 

[whaler11]

Don’t want to start another thread but who’s on your Boy Band Mount Rushmore

Menudo
NKOTB
The one Timberlake was in
New Edition

 

[Guapo]

I gotta say, takes like "actually Sinatra is chick feces" are the reason I read the internet.

Thank you @whaler11

What are you talking about? I like Sinatra a lot. The people who loved him most are dying quickly.

Time marches on. In 20-30 years there are going to be other huge acts from NJ and Sinatra will be someone most of the people never really listened to.
[/QUOTE]

Ok maybe I misunderstood.

 

[tzznandrew]

Come on - Bon Jovi still has huge anthems that are screamed by hundreds of thousands of people at stadiums year round.

There's no objective way to build a Rushmore. You're using one measure and trying to pretend it's somehow objective when it isn't. You point about Sinatra is right, and goes to the main point I've been insisting on: any Rushmore will say more about the builder (or his time frame) than the Rushmore built.

There's something to be said about current popularity, but popularity contemporary popularity not need to be the only category. I think Bon Jovi sucks. You think they don't.

The more important question is whether the people who are making music now find Bon Jovi to be something formative to their experience or not.

I don't know that we're really in disagreement; I don't care enough about music to really make the argument. That said, my point here is that an argument ad populum isn't itself convincing for me. By that logic, Big Bang Theory is a great show.

 

[whaler11]

There's no objective way to build a Rushmore. You're using one measure and trying to pretend it's somehow objective when it isn't. You point about Sinatra is right, and goes to the main point I've been insisting on: any Rushmore will say more about the builder (or his time frame) than the Rushmore built.

There's something to be said about current popularity, but popularity contemporary popularity not need to be the only category. I think Bon Jovi sucks. You think they don't.

The more important question is whether the people who are making music now find Bon Jovi to be something formative to their experience or not.

I don't know that we're really in disagreement; I don't care enough about music to really make the argument. That said, my point here is that an argument ad populum isn't itself convincing for me. By that logic, Big Bang Theory is a great show.

Big Bang Theory is hideous and would be on or very close to the Sit-Com Mt Rushmore. I think Scrubs is a good show - but I can’t in good faith argue it over BBT when that show is watched by millions of people every night for hours. I think Veep is the best comedy that has ever been on TV and I Love Lucy is the most overrated thing I’ve ever seen - but I still know which one has a legitimate argument to be in the 4

I’m not saying popularity is the only variable - but things that aren’t popular at all can’t really be considered. You sort of proved my original argument - I don’t give a crap about Bon Jovi - just it’s absurd to argue Southside Johnny over them. You have never heard of him and his band - that’s the original point - not that I’m making some argument about the quality of Bon Jovi.

Part of the criteria has to be ‘enough people know of this thing’ to be included. At least if it’s going to be built collaboratively. If you are just saying here are the four things I personally like best you can put @tdrink and @August_West on your list.

 

[tzznandrew]

Big Bang Theory is hideous and would be on or very close to the Sit-Com Mt Rushmore. I think Scrubs is a good show - but I can’t in good faith argue it over BBT when that show is watched by millions of people every night for hours. I think Veep is the best comedy that has ever been on TV and I Love Lucy is the most overrated thing I’ve ever seen - but I still know which one has a legitimate argument to be in the 4

I’m not saying popularity is the only variable - but things that aren’t popular at all can’t really be considered. You sort of proved my original argument - I don’t give a crap about Bon Jovi - just it’s absurd to argue Southside Johnny over them. You have never heard of him and his band - that’s the original point - not that I’m making some argument about the quality of Bon Jovi.

We're talking past each other because we very clearly have different definitions of what a Rushmore means. It's why it's not really worth debating this: we can't come to an agreement.

A show like Seinfeld is both popular and influential. It's an easy Rushmore for all involved. Arrested Development was wildly unpopular, but it's influence is shot through all contemporary good comedy. Big Bang Theory is derivative butt. (Scrubs is excellent, but not particularly influential, so though better than BBT isn't Rushmore material.)

The Wire is universally considered one of the best shows ever. I agree, and think it's the best show. It was not particularly popular, and even now the average tv viewer hasn't seen it. But for me the average tv viewer doesn't make the Rushmore.

That's the same thing with music. I just don't care enough about music to tell you who would take Bon Jovi's place. I can say with confidence, though, that Bon Jovi's mediocre music didn't bring anything new to the pop music scene, and has had no particularly interesting influence on what's come later. And that's not because their essentially a pop band--plenty of pop bands have done something interesting.

 

[whaler11]

We're talking past each other because we very clearly have different definitions of what a Rushmore means. It's why it's not really worth debating this: we can't come to an agreement.

A show like Seinfeld is both popular and influential. It's an easy Rushmore for all involved. Arrested Development was wildly unpopular, but it's influence is shot through all contemporary good comedy. Big Bang Theory is derivative butt. (Scrubs is excellent, but not particularly influential, so though better than BBT isn't Rushmore material.)

The Wire is universally considered one of the best shows ever. I agree, and think it's the best show. It was not particularly popular, and even now the average tv viewer hasn't seen it. But for me the average tv viewer doesn't make the Rushmore.

That's the same thing with music. I just don't care enough about music to tell you who would take Bon Jovi's place. I can say with confidence, though, that Bon Jovi's mediocre music didn't bring anything new to the pop music scene, and has had no particularly interesting influence on what's come later. And that's not because their essentially a pop band--plenty of pop bands have done something interesting.

Yeah I don’t think influence matters if it isn’t combined with other factors. Nobody is putting Candy Cummings on a baseball Rushmore because he invented the curveball.

(obviously he didnt invent the curveball but that’s the legend and an easy example).

REM is an alt rock Rushmore because of the music they made and the breadth of their careers not because people liked them and picked up guitars.

The Wire is the best show and should be on a prestige drama Rushmore.

 

[tzznandrew]

Yeah I don’t think influence matters if it isn’t combined with other factors. Nobody is putting Candy Cummings on a baseball Rushmore because he invented the curveball.

(obviously he didnt invent the curveball but that’s the legend and an easy example).

REM is an alt rock Rushmore because of the music they made and the breadth of their careers not because people liked them and picked up guitars.

The Wire is the best show and should be on a prestige drama Rushmore.

1. Artistic Quality (however objective we think it is, and this is the debate)
2. Popularity
3. Influence

Those strike me as the factors in a Rushmore of non-objective things. If something is really bad artistically but wildly popular and incredibly influential, it can find it's way onto the Rushmore.

Just one of these things is not enough, and like Sinatra usually fade into the background with time. I'm not convinced Bon Jovi isn't going to fade into the background.

 

[whaler11]

1. Artistic Quality (however objective we think it is, and this is the debate)
2. Popularity
3. Influence

Those strike me as the factors in a Rushmore of non-objective things. If something is really bad artistically but wildly popular and incredibly influential, it can find it's way onto the Rushmore.

Just one of these things is not enough, and like Sinatra usually fade into the background with time. I'm not convinced Bon Jovi isn't going to fade into the background.

Bon Jovi is totally going to fade into the background. Everyone and everything fades into the background.

My daughter is 10. She has never heard a Sinatra song and I’m not sure I see a path where she does.

The Godfather is awesome. But it’s going to be lost to time too - people muttering on an island in Europe 100 years ago isn’t going to keep the attention of people born in 2010 or 2020 or 2030.

Stuff like the Maltese Falcon and North by Northwest are technically great - there is no way in the world I can sit through them. Film buffs and nerds watch Hitchcock today - everyone else is watching some superhero movie they crank out every 15 minutes.

Look at how many posters here don’t have any idea about UConn basketball before 1999 or 1990. It doesn’t take long.

 

[Guapo]

Bon Jovi is totally going to fade into the background. Everyone and everything fades into the background.

My daughter is 10. She has never heard a Sinatra song and I’m not sure I see a path where she does.

The Godfather is awesome. But it’s going to be lost to time too - people muttering on an island in Europe 100 years ago isn’t going to keep the attention of people born in 2010 or 2020 or 2030.

Stuff like the Maltese Falcon and North by Northwest are technically great - there is no way in the world I can sit through them. Film buffs and nerds watch Hitchcock today - everyone else is watching some superhero movie they crank out every 15 minutes.

Look at how many posters here don’t have any idea about UConn basketball before 1999 or 1990. It doesn’t take long.

#deep

 

[Waquoit]

there is no case for southside johnny over bon jovi than i like him better.

Southside has more good songs

 

[whaler11]

Southside has more good songs

How have none of you posted that Jon Bon Jovi has been quoted as saying Southside Johnny is his ‘reason for singing’.

Debate better.

Keep in mind that that’s the HIGHLIGHT of his wikipedia page. I would have gone with playing the Mike and the Mad Dog labor day show - but I guess Jon Bon Jovi is really famous for some reason.

 

[Waquoit]

If you are looking for a good time waster about music check out this article:
All 221 Artists in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Ranked From Best to Worst

Guess who's 221st? "...they have produced only one passable chorus in a 30-year-plus history, and that’s with songwriting help from Desmond Child. (If you like “Living on a Prayer,” “You Give Love a Bad Name,” or “Bad Medicine,” you like Child, not Bon Jovi. As with Aerosmith, Child should be being inducted into the hall with the band.) The outside songwriting help frees up the band to concentrate on things like hairdos, and marketing."

 

[whaler11]

If you are looking for a good time waster about music check out this article:
All 221 Artists in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Ranked From Best to Worst

Guess who's 221st? "...they have produced only one passable chorus in a 30-year-plus history, and that’s with songwriting help from Desmond Child. (If you like “Living on a Prayer,” “You Give Love a Bad Name,” or “Bad Medicine,” you like Child, not Bon Jovi. As with Aerosmith, Child should be being inducted into the hall with the band.) The outside songwriting help frees up the band to concentrate on things like hairdos, and marketing."

It’s too much to read but Chicago, Queen, Def Lep and Bon Jovi are the last four. Did Bob Diaco write it?

 

[whaler11]

If you are looking for a good time waster about music check out this article:
All 221 Artists in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Ranked From Best to Worst

Guess who's 221st? "...they have produced only one passable chorus in a 30-year-plus history, and that’s with songwriting help from Desmond Child. (If you like “Living on a Prayer,” “You Give Love a Bad Name,” or “Bad Medicine,” you like Child, not Bon Jovi. As with Aerosmith, Child should be being inducted into the hall with the band.) The outside songwriting help frees up the band to concentrate on things like hairdos, and marketing."

Thanks for posting. I made a game of it to see where the Mommas and the Papas were.

Sure they are behind the Flamingos (lol) but ahead of 60 acts. One song you see on Time Life commercials - def more impactful than Queen.

 

[UConnNick]

What, 11 pages in and no mention of the pride of South Coventry...Slim Coxx and his Cowboy Caravan? For anybody that remembers the old days when Lake Compounce was still family owned by my friends the Nortons, Slim was the local standard bearer on the outdoor stage those many summer evenings. Hillbilly music from a CT artist?

No, Slim doesn't deserve Mt. Rushmore status, but he did represent something unique coming from a CT native. Every time I see those scenes in "The Blues Brothers" featuring "The Good Ole Boys" and how they were dressed, I think of Slim and his band.

 

[wolfman61]

I always thought it was Al Anderson.

DOH! My bad

 

[Waquoit]

Menudo
NKOTB
The one Timberlake was in
New Edition

Credit where credit is due, I think you nailed it. And I spent a good two minutes trying to poke a hole in it.

 

[whaler11]

Credit where credit is due, I think you nailed it. And I spent a good two minutes trying to poke a hole in it.

One Direction?
98 Degrees?

I now can remember Backstreet boys.

 

[Waquoit]

One Direction?
98 Degrees?

I now can remember Backstreet boys.

Yeah, but who do you kick out?

 

[whaler11]

Yeah, but who do you kick out?

I think it’s pretty clear for people at our age. Younger people who didn’t witness Menudo might argue One Direction.

Maybe the best story I have that I can tell in mixed company is about the time I played blackjack w Joey Fatone. The Jessica Simpson out of the cake for Lachey’s 30th birthday aired on my 30th birthday and might have been the best thing I got (other than a Fincher jersey). He also is an AAC guy.

98 Degrees may be my Southside Johnny.

 

[wheelerdog]

Michael Bolton. Lol.

That no talent ass clown

 

[Mano]

I see you were eating at First and Last Tavern a few days ago @whaler11.

Tsk, tsk.