Mississippi St @ Tennessee - 1/21/18

[Bayareahusky]

I think the Lady Vols are in somewhat the same situation they have been the past few years..... just not in such an accentuated way.....

they are better than in past years..... no question.... probably due to Westbrook.... a better PG than they have had ..... i like their improved ball movement and transition flow .... it is better than it had been.....

I still think Holly could do a much better job..... Presser she said.... she was disappointed with quick shooting and shot selection..... Kara said also as analyst that the no-pass possessions do not help the Lady Vol cause at all.....

but this is not a problem which they have not faced in the last year or two or 3 or 4.... where is the coaching hammer? Fix the problem, and if your team is not doing it right... sit those players down.....

and Holly mentioned a lack of energy... #3 comes to your house on a featured game, and you don't have the energy to meet that?

I see the LVs as definitely improved from last year, but not where they should be.... I do not think they can depend on Mercedes .... she is good but cannot carry the weight on her shoulders... their success will depend on Nared.... who is proven blue chipper, and the freshmen.... who will develop to whatever extent

 

[DefenseBB]

There's been some great posts on this thread including Wbb posting Margo (she even has orange walls in home!). I didn't want to hit reply to the various good comments to have my Logo appear like a rash on this thread...

Becky Hammon, despite having the support of Popovich, I just don't see ever getting a head job in the NBA-too much macho-ism with the players and even very good men's coaches get thrown under the bus, never mind adding in sexism.

She does have to prove that not only can she handle a high profile program, she must and thrive and develop players. I also think she will need to coach a few USA teams. So to address the UT thing, while Tenn has the money Hammon wants, I am not convinced Philip Fulmer will:
1. Let Holly go if she gets 24+wins, makes it to the second round and still has strong recruits coming in. She has 1 more year at $625-650K coming to her and they can't afford to buy her out. It just doesn't happen in Women's sports. My guess is the chances of her getting fired with a year left as 15%.
2. If after next year, they do decide to not renew (my guess is 75%) or Holly decides it's time to step down (most graceful way), I am not convinced that they will pick outside the program. Pat Summit legacy weighs too much on this program to eschew any Lady Vol.
All told, I put Hammon's chance at getting UT at 25% if Holly is gone next year.

Yesterday was the first chance I got to see MSU this year even though I have been intently following all their games. They look good, but after seeing them, I am less worried than I was as their defensive pressure is not as strong as it was last year and the only person with size is McCowan who we can double down on with Pheesa, Z and Gabby. Kia can lock down Vivians. While Morgan William and Crystal Dangerfield will do battle that leaves Shaeffer and Johnson as the other two starters that KLS and Pheesa/Gabby guard. That's a huge mismatch for us. It's nice his daughter starts and shoots 39% from 3 point land (good but not great) but she will get killed guarding Kia or KLS.

Honestly, after the Texas game, I am convinced the teams with the best guard play that are well coached will give us the hardest time (yes MSU is included in this). I am curious on Tex-BU this Thursday with my view Texas has the deeper bench and much better guard play that they should win. At best, I think BU splits with them.

MSU will do well the rest of the way and the match-up with a healthy Wilson with Tyesha Harris will be interesting to watch.

Thoughts?

 

[stwainfan]

 

[HuskyNan]

View attachment 27965

She’s very loyal but Holly is not a “phenomenal” coach, sorry.

 

[EricSD]

She’s very loyal but Holly is not a “phenomenal” coach, sorry.

Michelle didn't say she was a phenomenal coach, but rather that "she's done an absolute phenomenal job".

Not sure I agree 100% with that either, but she HAS done a phenomenal job recruiting. In the past 2 seasons, 7 McD AA's. Name a coach who's recruited better (hint - Geno has not).

Now you can parse that down and say that Geno has gotten 2 #1 kids , a top 5 kid, a top 15 kid, and 2 others in the 30-50 range (AEH and Gordon), so therefore, his highest quality recruits are better since Tenn basically got 2 top 10, 3 top 15, and then 2 lower ranked but still AA's, but my point is Holly has done a great job recruiting the past 2 seasons.

Back to your point - she's simply not a good or great coach - totally agree with you there. She may be a great person who has done a great job creating a family atmosphere, but as far as X's and O's and teaching kids offense, defense, etc, she's average at best...

 

[mbr33ct]

Interesting how Marciniak and/or Holdsclaw know what growing pains UConn will go through when Geno retires. I would bet the "reset moment", when it happens for UConn will not be as bad as Holly's reset years. Was that an attempt, by Marciniak, to soften the "massacre Holly rants" by introducing Geno as the leading paragraph?

 

[Plebe]

Why the hell is Marciniak even talking about UConn at all. Stay in your lane please.

 

[UConnCat]

More than a little hyperbole by Michelle ("bravest and most courageous person on earth?" please), but she is right to point out that it is difficult if not impossible to follow a legendary coach. That's why I chuckle when some here suggest that UConn should look for some established, highly regarded P5 coach to follow Geno. No such coach in his or her right mind would choose to move to Storrs to succeed Geno.

Whatever Holly's limitations as a coach she has certainly recruited well and will be Tennessee's head coach for several years.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Michelle says this touting Holly's tenure.... I think it is kind of silly..... the obvious mistakes she has made.... and has been a veteran coach..... i mean basic mistakes and not schooling her team on the fundamentals.... but i am not with a partisan eye just a fan of WCBB..... This is JMHO

It is fine with me that Lady Vol Nation is happy with CHW..... and this year things have improved..... but looking at the last few years in her tenure the cupboard has been full.... and yes she has reached the Elite 8..... if that is the bar then all is good in K Ville.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

MSS wondering why they're only 2nd in the nation with no first place votes. Their press and fans seem to think the final four win should somehow compute into current polls.

What separates No. 2 Mississippi State from No. 1 UConn in women's college basketball?

 

[Alydar]

1. Before they played Tenn their only top 10 ranked win was against Oregon and that was at home. Suddenly they want instant recognition for beating a suspect Tenn team?

2, Miss St is No 3 in RPI and No, 10 in SOS. UConn is No 1 in RPI and No 2 in SOS. And that's while playing in a crappy conference.

3. UConn started their season playing Stanford, Cal, Md & UCLA, 2 home, 1, road and 1 neutral. At the time they were ranked 10, 20, 14 & 5. Miss St played Virginia, Georgia St, Southern Miss, all at home, then ASU in Cancun. Who made the better early season impression?

UConn has top 10 games left at S Carolina and home vs Louisville. Miss St has a home game vs S Carolina. Now if Miss St beats S Carolina and Missouri and TAMU and wins the SEC tournament then some writer in an SEC town may likely give them a vote for 1. And that's OK because nobody remembers the voting going into the NCAA's after the first week in April.

 

[HuskyNan]

 

[UConnCat]

I watched a bit of the MSU v Tenn game on replay. Seeing Morgan William walk up the court while pounding the ball in to the hardwood gave me flashbacks to last April. Ugh.

Holly said this year's MSU team is better than last year's but not as deep. I think that's true offensively, largely because of Vivian's vastly improved shooting and McCowan's overall improvement. Also, Johnson seems to be a step up offensively from Richardson, and Schaefer scores about 3 ppg more than Dillingham and stretches the floor better. William's shooting and scoring are down from last year.

Defensively I don't think this year's team is as good as last year's. They are very small on the perimeter (5-5 and 5-7) with Schaefer and Johnson nowhere near as good defensively as Richardson and Dillingham. McCowan is a tremendous rebounder.

South Carolina at Miss State on Feb 5 should be a good one.

 

[EricSD]

Michelle says this touting Holly's tenure.... I think it is kind of silly..... the obvious mistakes she has made.... and has been a veteran coach..... i mean basic mistakes and not schooling her team on the fundamentals.... but i am not with a partisan eye just a fan of WCBB..... This is JMHO

It is fine with me that Lady Vol Nation is happy with CHW..... and this year things have improved..... but looking at the last few years in her tenure the cupboard has been full.... and yes she has reached the Elite 8..... if that is the bar then all is good in K Ville.

In fairness, if you think about it, aren't elite 8's and possible final 4's about the most that 99% of the teams can hope for? Muffet is widely regarded as the 2nd best in the game (or maybe Tara is) (but I think you have to give Mulkey credit t00).

Muffet has 7 final 4's, 4 NC game appearances, and 1 NC.
Tara has 10 final 4's, and 2 NC's
Mulkey has 3 final 4's, and 2 NC's

Other than that, teams like Duke, Maryland, Rutgers, LSU, Oklahoma and maybe a few others have made several FF appearances, but some of those teams have fallen off the map as top 10 elite teams (Rutgers, LSU, Oklahoma) and I suspect that after this season, teams like tOSU, Miss State, South Carolina, Duke, UCLA, and maybe a few others will fall off too.

I think fans of top teams sometimes take for granted how impossible it is to stay at the top and make one final 4 after another. Stanford and Tenn have done it historically (but not nearly as much recently), Notre Dame, and UCONN and that's about it. Some teams have a great run for a few years (LSU when they had Fowles et al.), and then disappear.

Bottom line, Tennessee fans have totally unrealistic expectations and what they are achieving now is about as good as it will ever be for them over the next 10 years. Sure Westbrook, Hayes, and Davis will all be better next year, but they lose Russell and Nared - their 2 leading scorers, and don't really have anything to replace them with... They need at least 3 years of excellent recruiting to have a chance at sniffing a FF IMHO...

 

[donalddoowop]

I watched a bit of the MSU v Tenn game on replay. Seeing Morgan Williams walk up the court while pounding the ball in to the hardwood gave me flashbacks to last April. Ugh.

Holly said this year's MSU team is better than last year's but not as deep. I think that's true offensively, largely because of Vivian's vastly improved shooting and McCowan's overall improvement. Also, Johnson seems to be a step up offensively from Richardson, and Schaefer scores about 3 ppg more than Dillingham and stretches the floor better. William's shooting and scoring are down from last year.

Defensively I don't think this year's team is as good as last year's. They are very small on the perimeter (5-5 and 5-7) with Schaefer and Johnson nowhere near as good defensively as Richardson and Dillingham. McCowan is a tremendous rebounder.

South Carolina at Miss State on Feb 5 should be a good one.

I mean no harm but, there is no "s" at the end of MS guard Morgan William. Just saying.

 

[DefenseBB]

In reading the article the only issue that sort of rankles me is Vic saying "I do think we still battle the respect factor a little bit across the country.” which is hogwash-YOU'RE #2 IN TH COUNTRY! How is that not respect? If you want to be mentioned regularly with UConn, ND, Stanford, Tenn and SC, then play a tougher OOC. As much as I loathe Tenn Vol fans, they still play the bluebloods of the sport in the OOC-ND, Stanford and now Texas/Baylor. Vic-grow a pair and start playing Texas, Oregon and others regularly and then maybe you can get your extroverted respect vs. just the votes. I so want to play them again in the final....

 

[HopJim]

Mississippi State looked great. They are not the most talented but they are so well coached and players play within themselves. Schaefer is easily one of the best coaches in the country and he's proving it this year.

Vivians should be a top 5 pick in the WNBA next year. She takes good shots, is quick enough to take her defender off the dribble, can hit midrange and from DEEP, and she's become a much better decision maker. She's been fantastic in every game I've seen her play this year, and I thought she was the best player on the court today. She owned Nared, who really struggled.

McCowan was also very good despite being neutralized by Russell. Teaira is just so solidly built. Her frame is so strong and she does a good job of getting deep position and has great hands for nabbing rebounds. Doesn't have good touch unless she's using the backboard, but she's going to be a handful for anyone. Curious to see how a much slighter but quicker Stevens will match up with her, or how McCowan will do against Brown of Baylor.

Johnson/Schaefer were the biggest difference makers today though. Both played their role extremely well and just came up big. Johnson is a great shooter but took Hayes off the dribble multiple times for easy buckets, and Schaefer spreads the floor like Nurse does for you guys, and she nails open looks. Schaefer also does a great job of taking charges and didn't seem to force anything.

For Tennessee, they have good individual players but their system just pales in comparison to Notre Dame's and Mississippi State's, and we saw that tonight. Once again, Holly made zero adjustments when Ms St regularly ran iso plays and pulled everyone to one side of the court and had Vivians or Johnson take their defender one on one. In her defense, Mississippi State is a hard matchup though. You have to put a body on McCowan or she'll get layup after layup (see Oregon game), but you can't sag or play zone because Mississippi State has 4 players who can (and will) drain 3s. They play tough in your face defense and have players who can score in iso situations and create their own shot. They are MUCH better than they were a year ago on the offensive side of the ball. I would love to see a rematch between them and the Huskies in the tournament. It's not going to be an easy win for the Huskies if they match up again.

While always impressed by the ability of UConn to recruit the top ranked players, Miss State teaches a good lesson regarding the value of confident, smart blue collar types who understand when and how to contribute.

 

[HopJim]

From what I have seen so far this season, Mississippi State is the biggest threat to the Huskies goal of a 12th NC this year. They know who they are, they play with consistency and the way their coach wants them to play, and they know they can beat the Huskies since they have done it before and their style of play has been a bit of a problem for UConn.

I think the next threat is Baylor. I don't quite get why they are not getting more attention. That may change if they handle Texas in conference play. None of the other contenders pose the match up problems for the Huskies that Mississippi State and Baylor do.

Suspect Baylor's biggest PR issue is that they are located in Waco, TX. No one in the Houston or Dallas press appears to be writing about them, therefore no stories for the national media to pick up on. Agree that they are being underestimated - great talent on team that may surprise in NCAA's.

 

[HopJim]

I watched a bit of the MSU v Tenn game on replay. Seeing Morgan William walk up the court while pounding the ball in to the hardwood gave me flashbacks to last April. Ugh.

Holly said this year's MSU team is better than last year's but not as deep. I think that's true offensively, largely because of Vivian's vastly improved shooting and McCowan's overall improvement. Also, Johnson seems to be a step up offensively from Richardson, and Schaefer scores about 3 ppg more than Dillingham and stretches the floor better. William's shooting and scoring are down from last year.

Defensively I don't think this year's team is as good as last year's. They are very small on the perimeter (5-5 and 5-7) with Schaefer and Johnson nowhere near as good defensively as Richardson and Dillingham. McCowan is a tremendous rebounder.

South Carolina at Miss State on Feb 5 should be a good one.

While size is always an issue to a relatively short UConn starting 5, I worry more about quick guards. For two years, UConn's defense has had a tough time stopping pick and rolls and the resulting layups and open 3's. Not sure why Geno hasn't made any changes but in all close games this year, major issue.

 

[SCspur]

I watched a bit of the MSU v Tenn game on replay. Seeing Morgan William walk up the court while pounding the ball in to the hardwood gave me flashbacks to last April. Ugh.

Holly said this year's MSU team is better than last year's but not as deep. I think that's true offensively, largely because of Vivian's vastly improved shooting and McCowan's overall improvement. Also, Johnson seems to be a step up offensively from Richardson, and Schaefer scores about 3 ppg more than Dillingham and stretches the floor better. William's shooting and scoring are down from last year.

Defensively I don't think this year's team is as good as last year's. They are very small on the perimeter (5-5 and 5-7) with Schaefer and Johnson nowhere near as good defensively as Richardson and Dillingham. McCowan is a tremendous rebounder.

South Carolina at Miss State on Feb 5 should be a good one.

I watched the game as well and I came away very impressed with MSU. I expected William to be more of a scorer but it seems Johnson has stepped up in her place. They will be tough for any team to beat but I thought Tenn did a poor job attacking the rim. Tenn was taller at every position on the floor other then McCowan and failed to take advantage. To beat MSU you have to focus on getting McCowan (best rebounder) and Vivians ( best scorer) in foul trouble. Their backups are young and have very little experience. When SC faces them on Feb 5th I think it will be a point of emphasis to get the ball down low into Wilson and Jennings hands. SC IMO has the adavantage down low and if we use it we could slip out Starkville with a victory.

 

[Boxerpups4me]

Bottom line, Tennessee fans have totally unrealistic expectations and what they are achieving now is about as good as it will ever be for them over the next 10 years. Sure Westbrook, Hayes, and Davis will all be better next year, but they lose Russell and Nared - their 2 leading scorers, and don't really have anything to replace them with... They need at least 3 years of excellent recruiting to have a chance at sniffing a FF IMHO...

I shudder to think where tennessee might be in 10 years if holly is still the coach. Her teams are so one dimensional and easy to figure out, that even coaches with a lot less talent can find a way to win. Look at all the double digit leads tennessee has lost and the number of unranked teams they have lost since holly took over..its unreal considering the talent she has recruited. Holly needs to come up with something else other than wanting all her players to cram in to Russell, or we will continue to see even doormat sec teams challenge tennessee. Before the christmas break tennessee was playing much better, with more offensive movement, so im not sure what happened on that point

As far as Miss St is concerned, i fully expect them to be a final four team and possible even unbeaten going into the ncaa tournament. they match up the best with Uconn in my opinion. That Mccowan player will be their x factor and long as she can keep putting up those impressive offensive rebound numbers, itll be hard for any team to beat them

Btw, miss st didnt need a lineup of 5 top 15 high school ranked players to put a beat down on tennessee. as a matter of fact two of their guards, who made the lady vols look silly, were 3 star recruits..

 

[MSSportsGuy]

In fairness, if you think about it, aren't elite 8's and possible final 4's about the most that 99% of the teams can hope for? Muffet is widely regarded as the 2nd best in the game (or maybe Tara is) (but I think you have to give Mulkey credit t00).

Muffet has 7 final 4's, 4 NC game appearances, and 1 NC.
Tara has 10 final 4's, and 2 NC's
Mulkey has 3 final 4's, and 2 NC's

Bottom line, Tennessee fans have totally unrealistic expectations and what they are achieving now is about as good as it will ever be for them over the next 10 years. Sure Westbrook, Hayes, and Davis will all be better next year, but they lose Russell and Nared - their 2 leading scorers, and don't really have anything to replace them with... They need at least 3 years of excellent recruiting to have a chance at sniffing a FF IMHO...

I agree the LV fans have been a little melodramatic the last few years. UT has recruited better the last two cycles and I hope they can keep their super classes together. UT was slipping a little even before the tragedy and it just happened to be a the same time UConn reached unprecedented levels of success.

I don't think UT is that far away from being one of the top programs again. Their freshmen have struggled during a few games but they are still a great class. I didn't exactly see them as a FF lock this year but if some things go their way it wouldn't shock me.

I've posted a few times how lucky and blessed UConn has been for many years now and that I hope their fans appreciate it. I graduated from MSU and we were a bottom feeder SEC program (with SC actually). MSU made one sweet sixteen before losing to UConn by 60 two years ago. The senior lineup of William, Schaefer and Vivians have all helped turn the corner and it helps that McGowan and Johnson have stepped up their games this season.

I don't know if MSU makes it back to the FF or not. There isn't much depth and there are some great teams out there. I'm proud of how well they have played so far this season and am happy they are getting some attention on a national scale.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

South Carolina - Miss State should be interesting.

I think USC probably should win the interior battle all things being equal, but haven't seen the Gamecocks play really good perimeter defense this season.

I'm afraid Vivians goes off and we give up the same open threes that have been there for opponents all season.

I'm hoping its a good game. I could see it getting away from us. Hard to see USC winning by a lot unless Miss State is just in terrible foul trouble, which is possible I suppose.

 

[donalddoowop]

I don't think McCowan looked all that good against Tennessee except for rebounding. She seems to have a little trouble when playing against a player near her height.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

I don't think McCowan looked all that good against Tennessee except for rebounding. She seems to have a little trouble when playing against a player near her height.

I agree. I think she bothered Wilson a bit last year during the regular season but Alaina Coates wasn't having none of it.

USC could try playing Jennings on her, but that's giving up a lot of size. Not sure you would want to risk Wilson fouls.

Traditionally think of these games as defensive battles, but this one could devolve into a track meet.

 

[SCspur]

South Carolina - Miss State should be interesting.

I think USC probably should win the interior battle all things being equal, but haven't seen the Gamecocks play really good perimeter defense this season.

I'm afraid Vivians goes off and we give up the same open threes that have been there for opponents all season.

I'm hoping its a good game. I could see it getting away from us. Hard to see USC winning by a lot unless Miss State is just in terrible foul trouble, which is possible I suppose.

Feed the ball down low to Wilson and Jennings to get McCowan and Vivians in foul trouble we win. Let Vivians and Johnson go off like they did agaisnt Tenn and we lose. It's pretty simple.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Feed the ball down low to Wilson and Jennings to get McCowan and Vivians in foul trouble we win. Let Vivians and Johnson go off like they did agaisnt Tenn and we lose. It's pretty simple.

You would think Wilson and Jennings between them and possibly harris attacking the rim might be a good way of getting McCowans in foul trouble, but it remains to be seen.

 

[SCspur]

You would think Wilson and Jennings between them and possibly harris attacking the rim might be a good way of getting McCowans in foul trouble, but it remains to be seen.

Going back to last year McCowan had nothing for Wilson and I expect that to be the same story this year, especially after seeing Russell take her out to the perimeter. My big concern is Vivians. Last year we had Davis, Gray, and Cliney to match up but Vivians plays the 4 so one of our forwards will have to guard her which I why I expect us to play zone. MSU plays mainly man-to-man so Vivans will likely have to guard either Wilson or Jennings. That matchup plays in our favor and I think if we get her in foul trouble it will throw off her rhythm and give us a great chance to win the game.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Going back to last year McCowan had nothing for Wilson and I expect that to be the same story this year, especially after seeing Russell take her out to the perimeter. My big concern is Vivians. Last year we had Davis, Gray, and Cliney to match up but Vivians plays the 4 so one of our forwards will have to guard her which I why I expect us to play zone. MSU plays mainly man-to-man so Vivans will likely have to guard either Wilson or Jennings. That matchup plays in our favor and I think if we get her in foul trouble it will throw off her rhythm and give us a great chance to win the game.

Definitely Vivians is the matchup that we don't have a great answer for. Our most likely move in man-to-man would be to stick Cliney on her and I don't think Cliney really can do much with her.

I don't love our zone either though.

 

[BostonCanuck]

Definitely Vivians is the matchup that we don't have a great answer for. Our most likely move in man-to-man would be to stick Cliney on her and I don't think Cliney really can do much with her.

I don't love our zone either though.

Agreed.

Keys to what I fully expect will the national championship game on April 1: The Huskies need to stop the Vivians three, stop McCowan in the paint, and successfully (this time) deal with their guards' pass-denial and pressure defense such that we score 80 or more. I'm not at all worried.