Maryland is subpoenaing the world

[btstimpy]

I understand your perspective on Louisville; however, I am curious why the ACC did not make a more significant move before Maryland left and while Syracuse and Pitt were being considered for membership and Louisville was not yet in the conversation.

Why not invite Rutgers and UConn along with Syracuse and Pitt? I understand this would not appease the southernmost ACC schools and make BC unhappy. However, it really could have been the next move in a larger acquisition rather than the end game.

With Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and UConn no longer in play, the Big Ten has nowhere along the East Coast to expand. Perhaps Maryland still would be a consideration; however, they would have been a 13th school without a 14th school available making a move to the Big Ten less likely to happen.

We know that Penn State is an eastern outlier in the Big Ten and there was concern, based on comments from ADs Alvarez and Smith, that Penn State might reconsider their membership in the Big Ten given this situation. Given the presence of all their regional rivals - Maryland, Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers - now in the ACC and no other East Coast partners for the Big Ten to offer Penn State, perhaps that is enough to entice Penn State to the ACC?

If Penn State goes to the ACC in this scenario, then perhaps the ACC can hit the grand slam and entice Notre Dame to join full time as the 18th school and partner to Penn State as the 17th school. Regardless a 16 team ACC with the addition of Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and UConn along with retention of Maryland would be a fantastic conference and leave open the option to entice national brands to join.

The ACC has not to this point had any aspirations of passing 16 members, and it already has Notre Dame. Maybe if the legislation change at the NCAA takes place, the ACC will feel free to add member 16 with Notre Dame as a partial.

The ACC 4x4x4 expansion committee did work on the list of schools to invite for 16. When Maryland left, it opened up a spot to select off that list. Louisiville, UConn, and Cincinnati were all on it. I have never heard of Rutgers ever in consideration even when Pittsburgh and Syracuse were invited. Good luck with that. I have some interest in Temple because it would be cool to have an ACC team in the Philadelphia Big 5, but the football folks throw up on that idea just like they do Rutgers.

 

[btstimpy]

[

This is the great mystery, strategically the ACC look like dolts for chasing B12 targets outside their Atlantic Coast territory while leaving open B1G targets within their primary market area.

The only rational answer is that they knew Rutgers was unavailable and ticketed for the B1G.

That leaves open why they didn't take UConn, the only other east coast school the B1G could consider. Maybe they didn't think the B1G would take UConn due to AAU issues. I think they were just being reactive, they got played by FSU and Clemson threatening to leave for the B12, and FSU and Clemson wanted a more southern football oriented conference even if it sacrificed the conference's strategic standing in the northeast and long-term finances. They based their decision entirely on how to strengthen the ACC vis-a-vis the B12 and Louisville both helped the ACC football/southern branding and damaged the B12's ability to grow.

You are making a totally off base assumption. Did you watch the Louisville-Rutgers men's basketball game at the AAC tournament this year? This is the epitome of what the ACC sees Rutgers athletics to be. Not just in basketball, but in its entirety. Rutgers has never been on an ACC list. The Big Ten grabbing Rutgers is the big question mark? That's a real gamble that can easily turn out to be a real stink bomb. As Billybud suggests, this should insult UConn much more than the ACC taking Louisville.

 

[btstimpy]

Oh my god! Lacrosse!

Rutgers is a giant. Why didn't I know?

I had no idea either.

 

[UConn990411]

[
You are making a totally off base assumption. Did you watch the Louisville-Rutgers men's basketball game at the AAC tournament this year? This is the epitome of what the ACC sees Rutgers athletics to be. Not just in basketball, but in its entirety. Rutgers has never been on an ACC list. The Big Ten grabbing Rutgers is the big question mark? That's a real gamble that can easily turn out to be a real stink bomb. As Billybud suggests, this should insult UConn much more than the ACC taking Louisville.

No, it shouldn't.

Adding Rutgers was a pretty clear strategic move, and the upside there is certainly worth the risk for a conference like the B1G. The ACC's decision to add Louisville had everything to do with the FSUs and Clemsons not wanting to invite another northern basketball school, so they settled on Louisville as the compromise. (Funny enough, Louisville is just as much a basketball school as UConn. And their football program has been no better - if not worse - than UConn over the past decade).

Louisville's athletic department is terrific and will bring more credibility to a hoops conference that is filled with pretenders outside of Duke and UNC. But their market is dreadful, their football team could fall right back down to earth with Bridgewater, and they stick out like a sore thumb academically.

 

[billybud]

This is the great mystery, strategically the ACC look like dolts for chasing B12 targets outside their Atlantic Coast territory while leaving open B1G targets within their primary market area.

The only rational answer is that they knew Rutgers was unavailable and ticketed for the B1G.

That leaves open why they didn't take UConn, the only other east coast school the B1G could consider. Maybe they didn't think the B1G would take UConn due to AAU issues. I think they were just being reactive, they got played by FSU and Clemson threatening to leave for the B12, and FSU and Clemson wanted a more southern football oriented conference even if it sacrificed the conference's strategic standing in the northeast and long-term finances. They based their decision entirely on how to strengthen the ACC vis-a-vis the B12 and Louisville both helped the ACC football/southern branding and damaged the B12's ability to grow.

Syracuse was always on the ACC expansion list....going back to 1991 when FSU and Cuse were both the only teams approached.

Donna Shalala, at Miami, originally had made the offering of Syracuse one of Miami's "wants" to move to the ACC. Shalala earned her PhD. from Syracuse and has been a big backer of adding the Cuse.

but...you are right in that the Big 12 at ten members was a threat to go east and pick up Louisville and another school, maybe Cincinnati or UConn. Taking Louisville before the Big 12 could move on them was a strategic move to solidify the ACC footprint and limit the Big 12.

 

[Sea Goat]

The ACC has not to this point had any aspirations of passing 16 members, and it already has Notre Dame. Maybe if the legislation change at the NCAA takes place, the ACC will feel free to add member 16 with Notre Dame as a partial.

The ACC 4x4x4 expansion committee did work on the list of schools to invite for 16. When Maryland left, it opened up a spot to select off that list. Louisiville, UConn, and Cincinnati were all on it. I have never heard of Rutgers ever in consideration even when Pittsburgh and Syracuse were invited. Good luck with that. I have some interest in Temple because it would be cool to have an ACC team in the Philadelphia Big 5, but the football folks throw up on that idea just like they do Rutgers.

The ACC doesn't "have" ND. It is delusional for you to think so. ND does very little for your olympic sports and they will do what suits them best in football.

 

[btstimpy]

Although ACC fans like to claim that Louisville was picked by a panel of ACC presidents, ADs, and conference commissioner John Swofford, it was actually chosen by a panel of teenage girls. They were attracted to whichever school seemed to be in most demand at that moment. Louisville was rumored to be a target of the B12 and UConn was not rumored to be in play. The pleasure of one-upping the B12 was irresistible to the ACC.

But sometimes, when you choose a mate because of who's attractive to someone else rather than who's best for you, you rue your choice. Louisville was hot. But will they be a good provider in the long run? Marriage is for a lifetime.

I can't get over the belief by some here that Louisville is some kind of a bad choice, and that Rutgers is some kind of a good choice. I keep asking myself, "Are these posters drunk?" Did you watch this year's Louisville-Rutgers men's basketball game at the AAC tournament? That is Rutgers athletics on display for the next 50 years. The ACC is well aware of this. The Big Ten "needs to help them" - Gene Smith, Ohio State. Good Luck! The first time Tom Izzo brings his team in there, he'll be calling the B1G office in Chicago after the game to find out who had been smoking crack there.

Now I agree that UConn is a good choice, and I hope that the ACC will consider UConn some day.

 

[billybud]

Notre Dame men's basketball and women's basketball and soccer are well regarded.

And playing the Irish in five OOC games a year gives OOC games that are anticipated by fans. Just as, I assume, UConn fans would anticipate a go at the Irish. I know that I am looking forward to the FSU-ND game this season.

 

[btstimpy]

The ACC doesn't "have" ND. It is delusional for you to think so. ND does very little for your olympic sports and they will do what suits them best in football.

They will not be going anywhere else for 15 years. You can claim that the ACC doesn't have Notre Dame all you want.

 

[btstimpy]

No, it shouldn't.

Adding Rutgers was a pretty clear strategic move, and the upside there is certainly worth the risk for a conference like the B1G. The ACC's decision to add Louisville had everything to do with the FSUs and Clemsons not wanting to invite another northern basketball school, so they settled on Louisville as the compromise. (Funny enough, Louisville is just as much a basketball school as UConn. And their football program has been no better - if not worse - than UConn over the past decade).

Louisville's athletic department is terrific and will bring more credibility to a hoops conference that is filled with pretenders outside of Duke and UNC. But their market is dreadful, their football team could fall right back down to earth with Bridgewater, and they stick out like a sore thumb academically.

Louisville's market is not dreadful. It is a market that gets some of the highest ratings for ESPN viewers in the United States for college athletics. Conversely, the vast majority of this country doesn't know that Rutgers has athletic teams.

 

[Fishy]

It's dreadful if you're hoping to expand your footprint for a network - the state is obviously basketball-crazy, but you're splitting a relatively small area between Kentucky and Louisville.

Louisville ranks No. 48 among Nielsen markets, and the Cardinals do not own all of that. There is a substantial penetration of Kentucky fans in the city and its suburbs. When The Courier-Journal surveyed Louisville residents in 2005 regarding their favorite team, 33 percent chose UK and 57 percent went for the Cardinals. You know what 57 percent of the No. 48 market is? It’s Shreveport. -- Sporting News

 

[billybud]

http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/newswi...e-tv-homes-score-big-during-ncaa-tourney.html


well...we now know where the "basketball belt" is.....

"For fans of NCAA basketball, it has been an upset-filled March Madness. But there are no surprises in household viewing patterns among the top markets tracked by Nielsen. More than a quarter of households in the Louisville, KY, market tuned into watch the University of Kentucky defeat Cornell on March 25. The Louisville market is once again the highest-rated DMA for NCAA tournament games, averaging a 16.6 household rating through the first two rounds. While Louisville is a mid-sized market with no pro sports teams, it dominates NCAA viewership and is at the heart of a "basketball belt," an enthusiastic cluster of markets from Raleigh to Oklahoma City that boast nine of the top 10 DMAs in tournament viewing.

 

[btstimpy]

It's dreadful if you're hoping to expand your footprint for a network - the state is obviously basketball-crazy, but you're splitting a relatively small area between Kentucky and Louisville.

Louisville ranks No. 48 among Nielsen markets, and the Cardinals do not own all of that. There is a substantial penetration of Kentucky fans in the city and its suburbs. When The Courier-Journal surveyed Louisville residents in 2005 regarding their favorite team, 33 percent chose UK and 57 percent went for the Cardinals. You know what 57 percent of the No. 48 market is? It’s Shreveport. -- Sporting News

You would not be splitting anything. Every UK fan doesn't miss a Louisville basketball game. Heated rivalry.

 

[billybud]

Oh my...Louisville is a #48 market?

Since Tallahassee is #106...and Tuscaloosa is lower yet.....I guess that means something good?

 

[Fishy]

Oh, you f---ers are plain delusional.

 

[billybud]

It's spelled "effers" in the south. Unless you were saying "fellers" . Southern for ...well, that is obvious.

 

[billybud]

Basketball belt...basketball belt....I thought it would be the NE that was the basketball belt for watching the NCAA tourney.

 

[Pat125]

UNC hasn't commented. Coach K has publicly stated that he will not allow Duke to schedule Maryland again during the regular season. After he retires, who knows?

Mr. Krzyzewski has publicly stated that his team will no longer play Maryland (unless they have to with the ACC/Big Ten Challenge), as you say. To put it in the proper perspective, he said this when he stated that if Maryland wanted to keep the tradition of playing each other, they wouldn't have left the ACC. First of all, for someone he gets paid $7-10 million a year to be lecturing others on tradition would be laughable if it wasn't so reprehensible. Further, a lot of traditions were ended with the ACC additions. I haven't heard Krzyzewski state publicly and unilaterally he wouldn't be playing the seven teams from the Big East. Coach K wins runner up honors for ACC hypocrite of the year.

 

[billybud]

Sounds like Texas's Dodds who said the Longhorns wouldn't be playing the Aggies again. But there is no need for Duke to schedule Maryland nor vice versa.

They aren't a historic rivalry. Why schedule in OOC? Notre Dame will fill in nicely in basketball.

 

[Pat125]

Totally disagree. According to Dr. Wallace Loh, he did not speak with the Big Ten Conference until after the ACC Exit Fee was changed to 3 times operating revenue, or $52 million. He made the decision to leave the ACC with full knowledge of what the Exit Fee is. No one, not Swofford or another ACC president snuck this up on Dr. Wallace Loh. It is now time for Dr. Wallace Loh to have Maryland pay it and to leave.

Whether or not Dr. Loh spoke to or said he spoke to the Big Ten when the bylaw "passed" is completely irrelevant. The issue here is whether the ACCs own bylaws were followed when it "passed." And whether the new exit fee is punitive. Soon after Maryland did announce they were leaving.

 

[Fishy]

Basketball belt...basketball belt....I thought it would be the NE that was the basketball belt for watching the NCAA tourney.

That was the 2010 tournament.

Look at the state of Connecticut and the New England areas around it....we didn't make the tournament that year and still the viewing appears to be as dense as the vaunted North Carolina basketball belt. (There were no New England teams represented in 2010.)

Syracuse made it. You can sorta tell because western NY is kinda shaded a little. (They didn't tell you which New York market they delivered.)

I don't think Louisville was in the 2010 tourney. Kentucky was a one seed - that's enough to light up the city of UL. (Correction - UL lost in the first round.)

 

[Pat125]

As for not respecting the 27 months in the Big East, what is the ACC supposed to do? Tell these schools to sit out a year as an independent after they negotiated a higher payment to leave the Big East after 2 seasons instead of 3 seasons? The schools wanted to join the ACC. The ACC didn't annex them. The Big East had already offered new members and needed them to move out. It would be like Maryland trying to stay in the ACC now. What would the ACC tell Louisville?

It's very simple. The Big East bylaws state that the members have to give 27 months notice. That means the teams would simply stay for a minimum of 27 months before they move to the ACC at the time the invitation was made. Yes, I understand these teams were allowed to negotiate, but Swofford should have said,"I'm a stickler for bylaws, and since I don't want to look like the slimeball hypocrite that I am, you must stay in the Big East for a minimum of 27 months, and then you will officially become a member of the ACC."

Maryland did adhere to the noncontroversial part of the bylaws as to when they would be able to leave.

 

[btstimpy]

Whether or not Dr. Loh spoke to or said he spoke to the Big Ten when the bylaw "passed" is completely irrelevant. The issue here is whether the ACCs own bylaws were followed when it "passed." And whether the new exit fee is punitive. Soon after Maryland did announce they were leaving.

Those are the issues. So what is this nonsense of subpoenas to the world to fish for who knows what and waste everyone's time?

 

[btstimpy]

It's very simple. The Big East bylaws state that the members have to give 27 months notice. That means the teams would simply stay for a minimum of 27 months before they move to the ACC at the time the invitation was made. Yes, I understand these teams were allowed to negotiate, but Swofford should have said,"I'm a stickler for bylaws, and since I don't want to look like the slimeball hypocrite that I am, you must stay in the Big East for a minimum of 27 months, and then you will officially become a member of the ACC."

Maryland did adhere to the noncontroversial part of the bylaws as to when they would be able to leave.

He did say that he is a stickler for bylaws and that he respected the bylaws of the Big East. The Big East wanted more money than the bylaws stated from the schools, and they wanted them out sooner because Memphis and Temple were coming in. Swofford wanted to follow the Big East bylaws. John Marinato didn't. He started out wanting to, then he took the extra payment.

 

[billybud]

It's very simple. The Big East bylaws state that the members have to give 27 months notice. That means the teams would simply stay for a minimum of 27 months before they move to the ACC at the time the invitation was made. Yes, I understand these teams were allowed to negotiate, but Swofford should have said,"I'm a stickler for bylaws, and since I don't want to look like the slimeball hypocrite that I am, you must stay in the Big East for a minimum of 27 months, and then you will officially become a member of the ACC."

Maryland did adhere to the noncontroversial part of the bylaws as to when they would be able to leave.

Sounds to me that the Big east and the leaving schools reached a mutual accommodation.....Swofford was ready to wait 27 months.

"The exact date for the move remains uncertain, as Big East bylaws require schools to pay a $5 million exit fee and give 27 months notice before leaving. ACC commissioner John Swofford said the league "fully respects" the bylaws of the Big East, but Pitt chancellor Mark Nordenberg said the Big East provides options for withdrawal.

"I would think that in the weeks ahead everyone will be looking at the transition period and trying to determine whether the 27-month notice period really serves everyone's best interest or whether there should be some modification to it," Nordenberg said. "It was important to us that commissioner Swofford made clear right from the start the ACC would be comfortable with waiting for that period of time if that is the way that things unfold."

 

[itgoeslike]

High viewership for specific content in small markets allows ESPN to charge advertisers rates that are closer to what larger markets might garner. However, this does not automatically translate to higher carriage fees. A larger market with less viewership can often trump small market hotbeds. You can't look at this through the lens of a single metric. It's like trying to calculate a room's size when you only have one dimension.

 

[BlueHen]

The ACC raided the Big East, gutted it and screwed UConn in the process. I'm going to enjoy watching Maryland vs the ACC play out. It's misguided for ACC people to come to this site and argue the ACC's case.

Go Terps!

 

[CL82]

Where's Blumenthal when we need him? Can't we partner with Maryland and tap into some ACC and ESPN money? After all, we're as injured as anyone by all this.

Nope, we get to sit on sidelines and watch for this one. Now whether discovery reveals anything that litigable, that's a whole different question.

 

[CL82]

I, maybe due to my location and interests, never had a clue that the B1G was considering Rutgers until the deed was imminent.

One would think that if UConn was AAU...they would have been a viable candidate for the Big Ten, offering better sports then Rutgers and still offering access to NY (from what I've read on this board).

Louisville was, at the time of ACC acquisition, in a good place. Football, basketball, and baseball were perking at a high level. The ESPN viewer numbers for Louisville were good. They were not another northeastern team (a plus as far as Clemson and FSU were concerned). And they were a somewhat familiar face having played in the Metro Conference with FSU.

If you were a southern ACC program, desperately wanting to augment the football presence, Louisville looked to be a good pick.

Rutgers brought 3 million NJ residents in the NYC DMA. That's what the B1G bought. AAU would have helped but I think those numbers were what drove this decision.

 

[CL82]

I can't get over the belief by some here that Louisville is some kind of a bad choice, and that Rutgers is some kind of a good choice. I keep asking myself, "Are these posters drunk?" Did you watch this year's Louisville-Rutgers men's basketball game at the AAC tournament? That is Rutgers athletics on display for the next 50 years. The ACC is well aware of this. The Big Ten "needs to help them" - Gene Smith, Ohio State. Good Luck! The first time Tom Izzo brings his team in there, he'll be calling the B1G office in Chicago after the game to find out who had been smoking crack there.

Now I agree that UConn is a good choice, and I hope that the ACC will consider UConn some day.

Short term on field results isn't what's driving these decisions, for the B1G anyway.