March General CBB Discussion Thread

[RuffRuff]

If what you said is true then we're headed for a tournament of only P4 teams, because it has never been about finding the best 68 teams (or 37 if it's only at large). It has always been about finding the most deserving teams. There is no doubt that Auburn is a better team than Miami OH. But I don't find a power conference team with 15 or 16 losses on Selection Sunday all that deserving.

So yes, it appears our criteria is very different, but yours is also very different from what the actual committee does. I'm not saying playing 31 D2 teams and going 31-0 should get you in. Miami OH played 3, which I agree is 3 too many. They also played in a decent mid major conference and would finish at 18-0 in this hypothetical. That's impressive regardless of their OOC schedule strength

Would you rather have a competitive early game in the tournament, or a nice story? Auburn would be favored by 8-9 points over Miami.

 

[Hromp]

I think the number of teams who would be undefeated with their schedule is far fewer than we think. Definitely not more than 20, and I think even that's high. It is very hard to not slip up once over an entire season.

Which is not a defense of their schedule, which is awful. But the NCAA tournament is not about the 68 best teams, it's about the most deserving teams. And if they make it through the regular season undefeated I have a very hard time seeing them not being deserving

 

[RuffRuff]

Hurley is pro-shrinking the BE schedule to 18 for more flex.

 

[navery12]

Would you rather have a competitive early game in the tournament, or a nice story? Auburn would be favored by 8-9 points over Miami.

A nice story, 100%. I have no interest in watching Auburn get blown out by UNC in a 5/12 game, and Auburn is no more likely to win that game than Miami. Winning games during the year should matter

 

[lonsharkin51]

Thought I’d paste this here because it brings me such joy (from CBS article on coaching hot seats):

“The Orange are in danger of falling entirely off the college basketball map after three unimportant seasons under Red Autry. Most everyone tasked with tracking the job market in college basketball expects this one to come open not just because SU again failed to meet program expectations, but a change in athletic director (with the hire to be determined before March 10, I'm told) sparking all more the reason to begin anew. Jim Boeheim's name and legacy still loom large here, but it's time to find a fresh face outside the Syracuse family in order to give the program a jolt, lest it risk becoming just another average power-conference team.”

 

[Hromp]

As a Miami University graduate I have mixed feelings here. Yes, they should have offered to play Dayton, Cincinnati, Xavier, Ohio State and Indiana at their perspective schools. But I imagine Miami was looking for a return game. In the past Miami has gone ahead and played the away game and not push for a return. Miami set up an awful schedule. And there is a good chance Akron defeats them in the conference tournament. Still to go undefeated regular season is impressive and should be rewarded. I say if they lose in the conference tournament let them be an 11 seed and play in at Dayton.

 

[Mr. French]

I'm not missing the point. I don't believe going undefeated against any schedule should be awarded with an at large bid. Where is the line? You can play D2 teams and be an at large? At large should be reserved for the best teams. That's how its always been done. If they win the conference tourney, dance away. We've seen mid majors deserving of at large bids. URI, St Mary's, Gonzaga, Wichita st, Butler, VCU, Yale, etc. These teams showed their quality against other quality teams. Maybe our criteria is different. There have been mid majors with better resumes that have had to win their conference tourney.

The MAC isn’t that bad and being undefeated and nationally ranked in a higher mid major conference definitely deserves a bid.

No one’s saying they’d be a top team in a major league but come on, they deserve a bid.

 

[RuffRuff]

A nice story, 100%. I have no interest in watching Auburn get blown out by UNC in a 5/12 game, and Auburn is no more likely to win that game than Miami. Winning games during the year should matter

It's hard to say - I would also rather see a good story than an 11th SEC team, but I could be a bit biased there. Auburn has shown some ability to play up by winning at Florida and beating StJ, likely what most hinge their at large on.

 

[aceboon]

Honestly not sure if there is a major difference in quality of player in him vs Awaka. They're both physical beasts, but not a ton of basketball skill.

yea I don't know about that lol. Peat is skilled, it's just his playstyle and body type reminds me of alot of PFs from previous eras that I grew up on, he operates in the short-midrange with his face-up game.

 

[UConNick]

The beauty of the NCAA tourney is that it gives those lower level teams (provided they took care of what they did have in front of them during their seasons) the opportunity they didn’t have before - to meet these power conference schools on an even playing field, to have the same chance as a Duke or UK or UConn to win a national championship, because they took the hand they were given and handled it well enough to earn that chance.

I miss the days of the A-10, MWC, OG CUSA (or even the early AAC?), even the Valley or occasionally the CAA all being able to get 3-4 teams in the field. Power conference consolidation has obviously killed most of that, with only the MWC hanging on as a usual multibid league. The further we drift from that playing field, the closer we get to the end of March Madness as we know it, and a tournament with just the power conference teams that won’t have the mystique, the intrigue, and most importantly the fairness traditional to this format.

Miami vs. Auburn is really an interesting test for this. Those of you arguing for Auburn, sure, the numbers in a vacuum might favor you. But that misses the nuance of what Miami’s done this season, and their numbers (thanks to literally being undefeated) aren’t too bad, either. If a team can get in with 15 losses just because they went 3-14 in Q1 thanks to their opportunities over a team that literally went undefeated, mathematically unlikely no matter what kind of schedule you play, it’s another sign that our favorite (and the best) sporting event in the country is in its death knell.

 

[RuffRuff]

yea I don't know about that lol. Peat is skilled, it's just his playstyle and body type reminds me of alot of PFs from previous eras that I grew up on, he operates in the short-midrange with his face-up game.

Awaka vs Peat - just about dead even. Awaka the most efficient offensive player. Peat is a very good defender, I'll give him that.

 

[Mr. French]

yea I don't know about that lol. Peat is skilled, it's just his playstyle and body type reminds me of alot of PFs from previous eras that I grew up on, he operates in the short-midrange with his face-up game.

It’s flat out wrong, Peat is very skilled.

 

[Mr. French]

View attachment 117736
Awaka vs Peat - just about dead even. Awaka the most efficient offensive player. Peat is a very good defender, I'll give him that.

What do these stats have to do with him being skilled?

 

[RuffRuff]

What do these stats have to do with him being skilled?

Perhaps "bag" is the right term. He has a limited bag.

 

[KingAG]

The MAC isn’t that bad and being undefeated and nationally ranked in a higher mid major conference definitely deserves a bid.

No one’s saying they’d be a top team in a major league but come on, they deserve a bid.

If they lose before they win the conference tourney that takes away their “undefeated” claim. Which is all anyone seems to be citing as their reason for being “deserving”. If they lose 1 game would they still be deserving?

At large should be best teams in my opinion. Let the good stories come form conference champs

 

[navery12]

If they lose before they win the conference tourney that takes away their “undefeated” claim. Which is all anyone seems to be citing as their reason for being “deserving”. If they lose 1 game would they still be deserving?

At large should be best teams in my opinion. Let the good stories come form conference champs

If it's to Akron in the MAC championship, yes. Earlier to a bad team, no. The undefeated regular season is the piece that people are saying makes them deserving. Despite their horrible schedule they're still 26th in WAB

 

[QDOG5]

Obviously I want UConn to win it all but if they don’t Arizona will win the ncaa men’s basketball championship.

 

[RuffRuff]

Obviously I want UConn to win it all but if they don’t Arizona will win the ncaa men’s basketball championship.

We def don’t want Florida or Duke to win. I don’t want a football school to win it either.

I’m good with AZ. I mean hell, if not UConn, could put for StJ. Otherwise would love a good story - Nebraska. Fairly agnostic otherwise. Not sure this streak of Big10 losing matters much.

 

[Mr. French]

We def don’t want Florida or Duke to win. I don’t want a football school to win it either.

I’m good with AZ. I mean hell, if not UConn, could put for StJ. Otherwise would love a good story - Nebraska. Fairly agnostic otherwise. Not sure this streak of Big10 losing matters much.

I would be disgusted if St. John’s wins. I hate Duke. I would be fine with Arizona and normally I’d be fine with Florida but I don’t want them going back to back. Michigan I can stomach because I always liked Michigan basketball in most iterations of their program and they’ve been good this year. Plus Gayle is someone I pull for, personally.

 

[KingAG]

If it's to Akron in the MAC championship, yes. Earlier to a bad team, no. The undefeated regular season is the piece that people are saying makes them deserving. Despite their horrible schedule they're still 26th in WAB

So there's a scenerio where the MAC gets 2 bids and the BE gets 3? That's why we are going to have a split

 

[QDOG5]

I’m not picking Arizona because I don’t want other teams to win. I’m saying other than UConn Arizona is the best team in college basketball.

 

[GHSWolverines]

Accordin to the NET rankings, what may hurt us is losing to Creighton at home. They were a quad 3 loss.

 

[RuffRuff]

I would be disgusted if St. John’s wins. I hate Duke. I would be fine with Arizona and normally I’d be fine with Florida but I don’t want them going back to back. Michigan I can stomach because I always liked Michigan basketball in most iterations of their program and they’ve been good this year. Plus Gayle is someone I pull for, personally.

I don't love the Pitino dynamic, but the BE needs all the swag it can muster at this point and keeping in the league would bring some buzz, and $$. Can't not want that.

Can't let Florida steal the thunder. Also think Golden is here to stay, don't want him ordained too quickly.

Michigan with May and the big $$, they'll be up there year after year going forward and as a football school, would prefer they not become Duke 2.0. He may opt for the NBA at some point, but he has the $$ and now has the reputation as Big U, and it's it's where I think the template is heading. The spread thing has shown it's weaknesses, and that it can get bullied - it's also inconsistent. Rim protection, brawn, owning the paint feels like the next wave (Florida winning last year, three top teams all having stellar front courts this year). Bigs are back - Clingan flashed how far rim protection goes, last years F4 was stacked wih great front courts, this year the same.

Hurley is going to have to do some work in the portal to bolster the FC, because Reibe/Stew/Landrew isn't going to be NC caliber FC next year. With Alex graduating, I'd say it's probably time to let go of the "stretch" 4 and start building some muscle in that position if we are to keep up.

 

[JungleLobo]

I don't see it - St Louis, nice story, but the top teams have multiple player way more talented than Robby Avila. Nice stories - to me, the mid majors are dead. If he was that good, some P4 team would have thrown a chest at him.

I'd be surprised if the Elite 8 didn't have all 4 ones in it, along with the rest being some combo of 2 & 3 seeds. There is a cliff in talent after about the 20th team in the country this year.

To illustrate, Look at one of the formerly “undefeateds”: Vanderbilt.

Goes 6-7 in their last 13, still ranked.

 

[aceboon]