March General CBB Discussion Thread | Page 4 | The Boneyard

March General CBB Discussion Thread

You are massively underrating how difficult it is to go undefeated, even in a mid major conference. Utah Valley, Yale, Hofstra, Stephen F Austin, McNeese, High Point are all similarly rated teams in similar rated conferences. They all have 4-10 losses and none are undefeated in conference
None scheduled as bad as they did. And none should get an at large bid.

Miami(OH) is not an at large team. There’s no need to reward that scheduling. All they had to do was not schedule Division 2 teams in December. Or move their 360th ranked schedule to top 250-300. If you want an At Large then schedule a team with a pulse in your OOC
 
It really seems to be like this:

Level 1 in whatever order: Duke/Zona/Michigan

Level 2: UConn/Florida and maybe TX Tech

Level 3: about another 6 teams, none of which are a lock for the elite 8 but could make it
 
You are massively underrating how difficult it is to go undefeated, even in a mid major conference. Utah Valley, Yale, Hofstra, Stephen F Austin, McNeese, High Point are all similarly rated teams in similar rated conferences. They all have 4-10 losses and none are undefeated in conference
Their WAB is like 32nd in the country. The average bubble teams (like a Seton Hall?) would’ve dropped, on average 2-3 games against their schedule.

Sure, maybe game by game, it’s easy to see on paper that any individual game could be won easily by most P5 schools. But to not trip up once in 29 times? That deserves to be considered, as you argue, and I think WAB illustrates that well.
 
Well for one, Miami is different from every other mid major that loses in their conference tournament because they'd be undefeated. And that's a very significant distinction that you continue to underrate the difficulty of regardless of schedule.

And your last paragraph is also wrong, every one of those undefeated regular season teams did not win their conference tournament. It takes 2 minutes of research to figure this out. You continue to show zero awareness about most things college basketball when you make claims like that, followed up by saying there is only pre-NCAA and NCAA tournament, something that has been proven numerous times to not be true of the committee
Not if they lose, they won't be.
 
Well for one, Miami is different from every other mid major that loses in their conference tournament because they'd be undefeated. And that's a very significant distinction that you continue to underrate the difficulty of regardless of schedule.

And your last paragraph is also wrong, every one of those undefeated regular season teams did not win their conference tournament. It takes 2 minutes of research to figure this out. You continue to show zero awareness about most things college basketball when you make claims like that, followed up by saying there is only pre-NCAA and NCAA tournament, something that has been proven numerous times to not be true of the committee
Thanks for being a dick. Apreciate the heads up to ignore you. Good lord. I did look it up, I guess whatever source I got to was wrong. But, alas
 
Seton Hall is absolutely having a night where they can't make shots and taking an L on the road during a long conference season, you must have only watched SH play UConn. It's a team made up of alot of low/mid-major transfers, they're not like that.
Who do you think makes up the Miami of Ohio roster ??
 
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We can officially put ISU as a one to bed. Not even sure if they're even a 2 at this point.

Great athlete - when I say skill, I'm talking about finer basketball skills - dribbling, shooting, having a bag. He's more brute force, good defensive player.

I dno that he’s a GREAT athlete but he has tons of skill for a 6’8 guy. I just disagree. I’m not sure how you can watch him since frosh year of HS and see a guy with little basketball skill.
 
Not sure if you read their board, but the discussion about their future coach/AD is incredible. Appears there is real talk they will bring back Mike Hopkins. I guess Melo has some giant NIL package lined up if they bring back Hopkins as the coach. It seems like there is also some power struggle between the Melo camp and some other giant donor, where they want different people for both jobs.
It absolutely has been. I’ve popped over there a few times this season, they're broken right now

We’ll see about their NIL but honestly to me the whole kelp thing is weird. Born in Brooklyn but spent most of his childhood in Baltimore, was rented by Cuse for one year. I get that he won a championship there, but I don’t get the commitment he seems to have to them
 
Not if they lose, they won't be.
You can’t lose more than 1.0 points in the WAB ratings with a single loss, and that would be losing at home to the single worst team in the NCAA. They would still have outperformed the average bubble team. And none of that is an opinion — it’s just understanding the math involved.
 
Seems crystal clear than DOOK, Michigan, and Arizona the top 3 teams heading into March Madness. I think we have a good case for #4, but the top 3 are legit this year. Seems like all the other teams that had legit cases for the last #1 seed either have been losing lately (Houston, Iowa State, Illinois, MSU) or we beat them head to head (Florida). I think we get the last #1 as long as we make the final of the BET. And are a 100% lock if we win out heading into the NCAAT.
 
Seems crystal clear than DOOK, Michigan, and Arizona the top 3 teams heading into March Madness. I think we have a good case for #4, but the top 3 are legit this year. Seems like all the other teams that had legit cases for the last #1 seed either have been losing lately (Houston, Iowa State, Illinois, MSU) or we beat them head to head (Florida). I think we get the last #1 as long as we make the final of the BET. And are a 100% lock if we win out heading into the NCAAT.
Agreed and when one closely inspects the SEC you find that while their middle and bottom are strong, they really don't have a great top team other than a surging FL. Not sure what the metrics say on that, but my eyeballs definitely aren't convinced. Sorry, SEC. Big12 is MUCH better than the SEC at the top.
 
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Iowa State is basically conceding the wide open 3s and doing their usual half court traps and packing the paint for concern for the dribble drive and the offensive rebounding.
Iowa State has trouble scoring at times.
It's really the right way to play that huge Arizona team, unless you also have a huge team like UNC. The size will dominate you if you let it, but Arizona isn't winning games from outside the arc. They need those interior points. Can also run on them and wear them down, if you can rebound.
 
Their schedule is indefensible. I’d assume they’re in even if they don’t win the conference tourney. But how many non tournament power 5 teams would be undefeated with that schedule? Seton Hall would definitely be. So the question becomes are you rewarding the best teams or the most conservative schedulers?

Deserve is a tricky word. I wouldn’t say they deserve it.

I lean they should have to win their conference tournament
Seton Hall has 2 Quad 3 losses. I think people are really underselling how hard it is to stay undefeated, Charmin schedule or not.

Teams are already punished for weak schedules by margin for error. Miami has none of that.
 
Seton Hall has 2 Quad 3 losses. I think people are really underselling how hard it is to stay undefeated, Charmin schedule or not.

Teams are already punished for weak schedules by margin for error. Miami has none of that.
Yea BE Quad 3 losses(Butler and DePaaul I'm assuming). Sell me whatever you're smoking if you don't think those would be 2 of the best teams on Miam(OH)'s schedule lmao. I think people are underselling how hard it is to schedule the 360th best schedule
 
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Seems crystal clear than DOOK, Michigan, and Arizona the top 3 teams heading into March Madness. I think we have a good case for #4, but the top 3 are legit this year. Seems like all the other teams that had legit cases for the last #1 seed either have been losing lately (Houston, Iowa State, Illinois, MSU) or we beat them head to head (Florida). I think we get the last #1 as long as we make the final of the BET. And are a 100% lock if we win out heading into the NCAAT.
the Florida hype is hilarious! I still stand by the fact that they are a good team but far from great. They have lost every game against better competition (all ended close after being down double digits) they also have 3 bad losses to TCU, Missouri and Auburn at home. They have beaten literally no one and now people are drooling over them. Their starting backcourt shoots under 25% from 3 and have been so inconsistent all season. . Shoot, for as bad as Solo has shot the ball this year he would be huge upgrade over what they have.
 
Yea BE Quad 3 losses(Butler and DePaaul I'm assuming). Sell me whatever you're smoking if you don't think those would be 2 of the best teams on Miam(OH)'s schedule lmao. I think people are underselling how hard it is to schedule the 360th best schedule
Of course they would be, but you continue to miss the point. If you threw Seton Hall or Butler into the MAC it is very likely they'd have at least 1 or 2 losses right now, most teams would. There are stats that can tell you this.

It is incredibly hard to go undefeated against any schedule, especially in conference, regardless of the quality of the teams. There's a reason why it almost never happens. That's why people feel they're deserving of an at large bid if they are able to close out the regular season undefeated.
 
This feels like one of those VCU, Ga Tech, San Diego St type tournaments coming up.

The bracket will open up for Uconn. Get placed in a region where the top teams have injured players, high seeded teams get upset. Uconn gets a team like St. Louis, Miami in the final four or title game.
 
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This feels like one of those VCU, Ga Tech, San Diego St type tournaments coming up.

The bracket will open up for Uconn. Get placed in a region where the top teams have injured players, high seeded teams get upset. Uconn gets a team like St. Louis, Miami in the final four or title game.
it looks exactly the opposite of that
 
Of course they would be, but you continue to miss the point. If you threw Seton Hall or Butler into the MAC it is very likely they'd have at least 1 or 2 losses right now, most teams would. There are stats that can tell you this.

It is incredibly hard to go undefeated against any schedule, especially in conference, regardless of the quality of the teams. There's a reason why it almost never happens. That's why people feel they're deserving of an at large bid if they are able to close out the regular season undefeated.
I'm not missing the point. I don't believe going undefeated against any schedule should be awarded with an at large bid. Where is the line? You can play D2 teams and be an at large? At large should be reserved for the best teams. That's how its always been done. If they win the conference tourney, dance away. We've seen mid majors deserving of at large bids. URI, St Mary's, Gonzaga, Wichita st, Butler, VCU, Yale, etc. These teams showed their quality against other quality teams. Maybe our criteria is different. There have been mid majors with better resumes that have had to win their conference tourney.
 
I'm not missing the point. I don't believe going undefeated against any schedule should be awarded with an at large bid. Where is the line? You can play D2 teams and be an at large? At large should be reserved for the best teams. That's how it’s always been done. If they win the conference tourney, dance away. We've seen mid majors deserving of at large bids. URI, St Mary's, Gonzaga, Wichita st, Butler, VCU, Yale, etc. These teams showed their quality against other quality teams. Maybe our criteria is different. There have been mid majors with better resumes that have had to win their conference tourney.
If you give them an at large for the sake of 0
losses without measuring quality of wins, you’re awarding the story vs the achievement.

Indifferent.
 
If a mid major gets out of the round of 32 not named Gonzaga, I’d be really surprised.
Nah, the 4s and 5s can certainly be beat. But the Final Four looks like it will be some combination of 8 or so teams
 
Nah, the 4s and 5s can certainly be beat. But the Final Four looks like it will be some combination of 8 or so teams
I don't see it - St Louis, nice story, but the top teams have multiple player way more talented than Robby Avila. Nice stories - to me, the mid majors are dead. If he was that good, some P4 team would have thrown a chest at him.

I'd be surprised if the Elite 8 didn't have all 4 ones in it, along with the rest being some combo of 2 & 3 seeds. There is a cliff in talent after about the 20th team in the country this year.
 
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I'm not missing the point. I don't believe going undefeated against any schedule should be awarded with an at large bid. Where is the line? You can play D2 teams and be an at large? At large should be reserved for the best teams. That's how its always been done. If they win the conference tourney, dance away. We've seen mid majors deserving of at large bids. URI, St Mary's, Gonzaga, Wichita st, Butler, VCU, Yale, etc. These teams showed their quality against other quality teams. Maybe our criteria is different. There have been mid majors with better resumes that have had to win their conference tourney.
If what you said is true then we're headed for a tournament of only P4 teams, because it has never been about finding the best 68 teams (or 37 if it's only at large). It has always been about finding the most deserving teams. There is no doubt that Auburn is a better team than Miami OH. But I don't find a power conference team with 15 or 16 losses on Selection Sunday all that deserving.

So yes, it appears our criteria is very different, but yours is also very different from what the actual committee does. I'm not saying playing 31 D2 teams and going 31-0 should get you in. Miami OH played 3, which I agree is 3 too many. They also played in a decent mid major conference and would finish at 18-0 in this hypothetical. That's impressive regardless of their OOC schedule strength
 

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