March General CBB Discussion Thread | Page 6 | The Boneyard

March General CBB Discussion Thread

KingAG said:
So there's a scenerio where the MAC gets 2 bids and the BE gets 3? That's why we are going to have a split
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Yeah there is a scenario like that. There's also a scenario where the BE gets 4 and the MAC gets 1 so there's a wide range
 
KingAG said:
None scheduled as bad as they did. And none should get an at large bid.

Miami(OH) is not an at large team. There’s no need to reward that scheduling. All they had to do was not schedule Division 2 teams in December. Or move their 360th ranked schedule to top 250-300. If you want an At Large then schedule a team with a pulse in your OOC
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I will say, their coach Steele has been saying all year that they tried to schedule P4 teams but no one wanted to play them. Not their fault that P4s are scared of potentially losing a buy game
 
navery12 said:
Yeah there is a scenario like that. There's also a scenario where the BE gets 4 and the MAC gets 1 so there's a wide range
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The scenario in which the BE gets 4 is very unlikely. I think its much more likely that Miami(OH) loses to one of the top seeds in the MAC. If I were a BE school left on the bubble id wage a holy war is a MAC school with that schedule got an At Large Bid.
 
Tyler2Rings said:
Bid stealers have been a thing forever. A fun part of championship week
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Bid stealing is definetly a thing. It's not a problem when the team who got the at large actually deserved the at large.
 
navery12 said:
If what you said is true then we're headed for a tournament of only P4 teams, because it has never been about finding the best 68 teams (or 37 if it's only at large). It has always been about finding the most deserving teams. There is no doubt that Auburn is a better team than Miami OH. But I don't find a power conference team with 15 or 16 losses on Selection Sunday all that deserving.

So yes, it appears our criteria is very different, but yours is also very different from what the actual committee does. I'm not saying playing 31 D2 teams and going 31-0 should get you in. Miami OH played 3, which I agree is 3 too many. They also played in a decent mid major conference and would finish at 18-0 in this hypothetical. That's impressive regardless of their OOC schedule strength
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I said last year when several crappy teams from the SEC got invites, if you aren't over .500 in conference play you should be ineligible. There's too much that is imaginary about strength of schedule. Judging Auburn vs Miami? I do have doubt that Auburn is better. Auburn straight up stinks and got lucky against St. Johns. Georgia isn't much better (that one point win over Xavier, what a powerhouse). Texas and A&M have done nothing to impress either.
 
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KingAG said:
The scenario in which the BE gets 4 is very unlikely. I think its much more likely that Miami(OH) loses to one of the top seeds in the MAC. If I were a BE school left on the bubble id wage a holy war is a MAC school with that schedule got an At Large Bid.
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Then those teams should have won more and not made it a conversation. Because you're not wrong that Miami OH's resume is not super strong, it's just that the bubble this year is also very weak.

You start to get into very shaky territory if you start taking bad power conference teams over good mid majors and justifying it with their schedule. Especially when those mid majors are effectively being shut out from scheduling top teams OOC. You start approaching a scenario where it's only a P5 tournament which I think everyone agrees we don't want
 
navery12 said:
Then those teams should have won more and not made it a conversation. Because you're not wrong that Miami OH's resume is not super strong, it's just that the bubble this year is also very weak.

You start to get into very shaky territory if you start taking bad power conference teams over good mid majors and justifying it with their schedule. Especially when those mid majors are effectively being shut out from scheduling top teams OOC. You start approaching a scenario where it's only a P5 tournament which I think everyone agrees we don't want
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I’d agree if Miami(OH) didn’t have one of the worst schedules in CBB. Their issue wasn’t that they couldn’t get high majors to schedule them. They didn’t get anyone with a pulse on their schedule.

I’m also not advocating for “bad power” teams to get in over good majors. I’m advocating for good power teams on the bubble (Seton Hall) who have beaten good teams and proven themselves against actual teams with a pulse. Yes, Seton Hall deserves a bid more than Miami(OH). Miami(OH) just simply had to replace the 3 D2 teams they played with a URI? A Dayton? A DePaul? A Yale? I mean anybody. It didn’t have to be the top power schools.

Mid majors such as Miami(OH) should schedule A CHALLENGE. Just one. That’s not asking too much. And others have. And because they have they aren’t “undefeated”. It doesn’t make them any less deserving.
 
KingAG said:
I’d agree if Miami(OH) didn’t have one of the worst schedules in CBB. Their issue wasn’t that they couldn’t get high majors to schedule them. They didn’t get anyone with a pulse on their schedule.

I’m also not advocating for “bad power” teams to get in over good majors. I’m advocating for good power teams on the bubble (Seton Hall) who have beaten good teams and proven themselves against actual teams with a pulse. Yes, Seton Hall deserves a bid more than Miami(OH). Miami(OH) just simply had to replace the 3 D2 teams they played with a URI? A Dayton? A DePaul? A Yale? I mean anybody. It didn’t have to be the top power schools.

Mid majors such as Miami(OH) should schedule A CHALLENGE. Just one. That’s not asking too much.
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But that's my point, you are suggesting they are excluded from at large consideration for something they tried and wanted to do, and the power conferences stopped. You can listed to Travis Steele say it in December and again a few weeks ago



 
navery12 said:
But that's my point, you are suggesting they are excluded from at large consideration for something they tried and wanted to do, and the power conferences stopped. You can listed to Travis Steele say it in December and again a few weeks ago



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I call bs. How did Akron do it? How did Kent St do it? What about Toledo? Well I’ll be damned Ohio got it done as well. Actually every team in their conference did it. They scheduled that soft because they didn’t think they were that good. That’s all him trying to put make up on a pig after the fact.

1 challenge. 1.
 
KingAG said:
I call bs. How did Akron do it? How did Kent St do it? What about Toledo? Well I’ll be damned Ohio got it done as well. They scheduled that soft because they didn’t think they were that good. That’s all him trying to put make up on a pig after the fact.

It’s seems like every other team in their conference got it done except them.
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How did those other teams do it? They were worse teams that weren't returning their entire roster. If you actually listen to Travis Steele talk he literally addresses that question. It's also in the tweet I posted, where he says teams didn't want to schedule them because of their retention. Akron did also return a lot and was able to schedule some good OOC games though.

These 2 stats, D1 Experience and Minutes Continuity sum it up very well

IMG_1907.jpeg
 
navery12 said:
How did those other teams do it? They were worse teams that weren't returning their entire roster. If you actually listen to Travis Steele talk he literally addresses that question. It's also in the tweet I posted, where he says teams didn't want to schedule them because of their retention.

These 2 stats, D1 Experience and Minutes Continuity sum it up very well

View attachment 117740
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And you believe that? You believe he couldn’t get one good team to schedule them? That’s naive. Akron was known to be good before the season started. They were a sexy pick as a good mid major. And got people to schedule them. He’s attempting to justify his putrid scheduling. I just think you’re buying what he’s selling. I’m not. I guess we’ll see.
 
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KingAG said:
I call bs. How did Akron do it? How did Kent St do it? What about Toledo? Well I’ll be damned Ohio got it done as well. Actually every team in their conference did it. They scheduled that soft because they didn’t think they were that good. That’s all him trying to put make up on a pig after the fact.

1 challenge. 1.
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They did it because the P5 teams didn't fear losing to them. They feared losing to Miami. And yes, a team like Seton Hall is better than Auburn.
 
HuskyHawk said:
They did it because the P5 teams didn't fear losing to them. They feared losing to Miami. And yes, a team like Seton Hall is better than Auburn.
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So they didnt fear losing to 359 other Div 1 teams? It doesn’t track to me. You’d have to take him at his word. And it seems convenient. They didn’t fear losing to Akron? Who was widely seen as a good mid major heading into the season. Yall believe that if yall want lol. Not one team? Come on lmao
 
KingAG said:
And you believe that? You believe he couldn’t get one good team to schedule them? That’s naive. Akron was known to be good before the season started. They were a sexy pick as a good mid major. And got people to schedule them. He’s attempting to justify his putrid scheduling. I just think you’re buying what he’s selling. I’m not. I guess we’ll see.
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I do believe that, because we've all been saying the exact same thing on the other side of this argument for the last 4+ years. And our own coach has been saying the same thing.

How many times have we had the discussion about wanting to play good local mid majors instead of Mississippi Valley State or Coppin State? And everyone here has acknowledged that there is no upside to scheduling a good mid major because if you win you were supposed to win and if you lose it's a bad loss. Top teams like UConn have been avoiding good mid majors for years
 
navery12 said:
I do believe that, because we've all been saying the exact same thing on the other side of this argument for the last 4+ years. And our own coach has been saying the same thing.

How many times have we had the discussion about wanting to play good local mid majors instead of Mississippi Valley State or Coppin State? And everyone here has acknowledged that there is no upside to scheduling a good mid major because if you win you were supposed to win and if you lose it's a bad loss. Top teams like UConn have been avoiding good mid majors for years
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None of them scheduled as bad as Miami(OH) is my point. I’m not asking for them to play a murderers row. Just play one game against someone with a pulse instead of 3 D2 games. Almost everyone else did it. There were only 8 teams with a worse schedule
 
Inyatkin said:
You know what's fun? Not being on the bubble and having to worry about bid stealers
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Made me think, have we ever been a bubble team? My memory of UConn bb only goes back to the mid 2000s but I can't remember sweating out a Selection Sunday
 
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KingAG said:
Bid stealing is definetly a thing. It's not a problem when the team who got the at large actually deserved the at large.
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“Deserve” is a subjective argument every year, and is right now too lol.
 
How many times has it been tested where a SOS that’s low also was undefeated? Not many cuz not many in history have been undefeated.
 
Mr. French said:
How many times has it been tested where a SOS that’s low also was undefeated? Not many cuz not many in history have been undefeated.
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They’re undefeated because it is that low lmao. Put a good team on their schedule and poof their goes their at large bid. It’s a farce
 
KingAG said:
They’re undefeated because it is that low lmao. Put a good team on their schedule and poof their goes their at large bid. It’s a farce
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But lots of teams in history have had that low a SOS, every year actually. None go undefeated…correct? So it’s unprecedented.

A MAC team every year probably had it, just never goes undefeated. They’re still playing teams in their leagues and winning.
 
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Mr. French said:
But lots of teams in history have had that low a SOS, every year actually. None go undefeated…correct? So it’s unprecedented.
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Because teams that schedule that bad usually suck. Which makes them scheduling that bad even more inexcusable
 
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