Mandel: Big Ten Fighting for Survival

[TerryD]

While I'm not claiming they had their mind made up, I can tell you that Notre Dame absolutely came to the Big Ten asking for a partial deal like the one the ACC offered just months prior to going to the ACC.

The Big Ten, of course, rejected that and countered with an offer for a gradual full-membership plan. Notre Dame rejected that and inquired about joining the Big Ten for hockey only. The Big Ten reiterated its position, and the rest was history.

The point here is that Notre Dame has portrayed after the fact the ACC was its desired destination, but it strongly flirted with the Big Ten looking for the same sort of partial membership. Obviously the additions of Rutgers and Maryland had quite a bit to do with that, as it gave an East coast presence Notre Dame was looking for. But nonetheless, it did absolutely go to the Big Ten with the hopes of getting the ACC type of deal.

While I'm not claiming they had their mind made up, I can tell you that Notre Dame absolutely came to the Big Ten asking for a partial deal like the one the ACC offered just months prior to going to the ACC.

The Big Ten, of course, rejected that and countered with an offer for a gradual full-membership plan. Notre Dame rejected that and inquired about joining the Big Ten for hockey only. The Big Ten reiterated its position, and the rest was history.

The point here is that Notre Dame has portrayed after the fact the ACC was its desired destination, but it strongly flirted with the Big Ten looking for the same sort of partial membership. Obviously the additions of Rutgers and Maryland had quite a bit to do with that, as it gave an East coast presence Notre Dame was looking for. But nonetheless, it did absolutely go to the Big Ten with the hopes of getting the ACC type of deal.

ND was already committed to the partial ACC deal when Rutgers and Maryland were added, no? ND announced the ACC deal in September 2012.

ND went to the Big 12 for a partial deal too. They used that to leverage the ACC deal, playing one conference off against another.

 

[clmssun]

While I'm not claiming they had their mind made up, I can tell you that Notre Dame absolutely came to the Big Ten asking for a partial deal like the one the ACC offered just months prior to going to the ACC.

The Big Ten, of course, rejected that and countered with an offer for a gradual full-membership plan. Notre Dame rejected that and inquired about joining the Big Ten for hockey only. The Big Ten reiterated its position, and the rest was history.

The point here is that Notre Dame has portrayed after the fact the ACC was its desired destination, but it strongly flirted with the Big Ten looking for the same sort of partial membership. Obviously the additions of Rutgers and Maryland had quite a bit to do with that, as it gave an East coast presence Notre Dame was looking for. But nonetheless, it did absolutely go to the Big Ten with the hopes of getting the ACC type of deal.

Just as TerryD shared the corroboration of ND's inquiry with Big XII, it makes sense that ND would inquire with B1G in a similar manner as Big XII (and similar to final deal struck with ACC). Any smart person/business shops around for the best deal to gauge the market; understand, however, that even if Big XII or B1G "matched the deal" of the ACC (full schedule of olympic sports and partial schedule of football) in terms of athletic scheduling, there are other things the ACC offers Notre Dame that Big XII and B1G cannot match.

1) Does anyone dispute that Notre Dame sought greater East Coast exposure?
-- the Big XII could not match that
-- historically, the B1G could not match that....

So the B1G adds Rutgers and Maryland...
2) Does anyone think Notre Dame's "history" with Rutgers and Maryland compares to Notre Dame's long history with Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, as well as recent history Boston College, Florida State, and Miami?

Given Notre Dame's assertive, self-serving nature (with the resources and results to corroborate and support that nature), I'd conjecture that Notre Dame approached the B1G seeking the impossible deal, "knowing" they'd be rejected, but giving it the ol' college try to gauge the market for their negotiations with their long-preferred suitor, the ACC.

None of this matters if the B1G is happy with the Rutgers and Maryland additions and happy without Notre Dame's partial membership. But there is not unanimity on this perspective, and thus we have great discussions on boards like this.

 

[dayooper]

Maybe so but I ALWAYS choose Calvin Johnson for my fantasy FB leagues and do well! I love(after my Jints) the Lions and they do have some followers down here...my nephew is a big Lions fan and its only a matter of time with the drafts they been having lately!

Yup, been saying that for my 40 years on this Earth. Hell has frozen over and The Lions are still Super Bowlless.

BTW - Hell is in Michigan. We also have Paradise and Climax.

 

[TerryD]

Yup, been saying that for my 40 years on this Earth. Hell has frozen over and The Lions are still Super Bowlless.

BTW - Hell is in Michigan. We also have Paradise and Climax.

I can sympathize a bit with Lions fans, in a way. I am a lifelong (I am 56) Pittsburgh Pirates fan and the last twenty years were tough to take, to say the least.

 

[businesslawyer]

Ahhh...the basketball board

That would be funny Einstein if you were visiting on our football board. You're not.

 

[kyleslamb]

Just as TerryD shared the corroboration of ND's inquiry with Big XII, it makes sense that ND would inquire with B1G in a similar manner as Big XII (and similar to final deal struck with ACC). Any smart person/business shops around for the best deal to gauge the market; understand, however, that even if Big XII or B1G "matched the deal" of the ACC (full schedule of olympic sports and partial schedule of football) in terms of athletic scheduling, there are other things the ACC offers Notre Dame that Big XII and B1G cannot match.

1) Does anyone dispute that Notre Dame sought greater East Coast exposure?
-- the Big XII could not match that
-- historically, the B1G could not match that....

So the B1G adds Rutgers and Maryland...
2) Does anyone think Notre Dame's "history" with Rutgers and Maryland compares to Notre Dame's long history with Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, as well as recent history Boston College, Florida State, and Miami?

Given Notre Dame's assertive, self-serving nature (with the resources and results to corroborate and support that nature), I'd conjecture that Notre Dame approached the B1G seeking the impossible deal, "knowing" they'd be rejected, but giving it the ol' college try to gauge the market for their negotiations with their long-preferred suitor, the ACC.

None of this matters if the B1G is happy with the Rutgers and Maryland additions and happy without Notre Dame's partial membership. But there is not unanimity on this perspective, and thus we have great discussions on boards like this.

You left out Notre Dame's history with Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, etc. and a Notre Dame-Penn State series would be huge if it were ever sustained. For the record, Northwestern and Notre Dame have played more than Georgia Tech has played Notre Dame. Frankly, Georgia Tech and Syracuse aren't really 'rivals' of Notre Dame. They're just teams that have played somewhat recently. Boston College is a rival, no question. But you took some awfully big liberties with some of those teams.

 

[1husky]

Unfortunately I has a very similar feeling after reading. Two other thoughts that popped in my head:

1. Delaney from South Orange, NJ - helps explain Rutgers addition?
2. I felt it was almost comical when Mandel (who I like) tried to talk up RU sports with the Woman's BB team going to a couple Final 4's half a decade ago and the pumping of a nationally ranked Wrestling Squad - unintentional comedy

Funny that he just took a job with Fox after 15 years with SI and suddenly Rutgers is an up and comer with amazing potential and recent success! What a joke. Mandel is a /whore like most of these national writers.

 

[buddy]

Haters hate...winners win....and, well you know.

FSU and BC hate. UConn wins.

 

[Gampeltiles]

Once UNC is presented with the opportunity too good to pass up, and K retires, Duke will be left to fend for itself. That's a shame.

Whoooaaa-----Puke? Dook? The rich kids that play in an outdated, shack that is looked upon as Holy Grail by Dickie V and the Raleigh/Durham mouthpieces at ESPN?

Like Rod Sellers I will never forgive them for stealing our chance for getting to our first FF during the "dream season". I had to wait 9 freakin' years.

"a shame", now we worry about them? They will be just fine, as will the ACC because they are riddled with enough SOB's that they won't ever fail.

That's what Delany sees, football rivals are more intense than basketball rivals and he has watered
down his conference more than enough.

Which is why the B1G is done expanding and why, we, as Nat'l Champs are still reliant (to a degree) on Dook as a rival, and like it or not as a lifeline.

 

[clmssun]

Yes, I got my wires crossed on Syracuse.

I omitted Michigan, Michigan State, and Purdue because my point in addressing your claims about Notre Dame and B1G/ACC was that ND sought greater exposure on the East Coast; those schools do not help that cause, nor does Northwestern. Yes, Penn State is easterly-located and has a long history of playing East Coast teams themselves (particularly prior to B1G membership), but they are far below Pittsburgh and, yes, Georgia Tech in Notre Dame's all-time scheduling. (And due to the ACC/B1G issues, Georgia Tech and Pittsburgh have much more East Coast focus than Penn State, which has a broader national appeal.) While I was wrong about Syracuse, I was not wrong that Rutgers and Maryland have very little history with Notre Dame.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

... It seems the ACC is at the bottom of the Power 5 in terms of revenue, but it is not because of the private status of Duke, Miami, or Notre Dame. Yes, Wake and BC (and perhaps Cuse) add little benefit, but other conferences have dogs who just happen to be public...

Here's the thing, Clem. We know this is about football with you. We know that Clemson voted for Louisville over us because of football but the fact that you're over here bragging on your (supposedly) "hot" new girlfriend (Notre Dame) while she's still spreading her legs for other guys makes you look foolish, pathetic, and impotent. Your arguments would be better couched without references to Notre Dame where you could at least hope others won't be reminded you're a cuckold.

 

[NickyNewark]

Here's the thing, Clem. We know this is about football with you. We know that Clemson voted for Louisville over us because of football but the fact that you're over here bragging on your (supposedly) "hot" new girlfriend (Notre Dame) while she's still spreading her legs for other guys makes you look foolish, pathetic, and impotent. Your arguments would be better couched without references to Notre Dame where you could at least hope others won't be reminded you're a cuckold.

Yeah my mom's Irish catholic and I grew up in NJ on ND BUT why do people nationally still have the impression anyone gives a sheet here in NYC metro about ND? If anything those of us left here tired of their shenanigans have grown bitter and root against them now! I can still see the article in the despised NSL about BK begging Savon Huggins not to drop ND from his recruiting list to save NDs image..ND? beggin?...exposed!! Everyone knew overrated or not he WAS a top 3 national RB out of HS and was going to stay home but not ND....they figured.. "ef NJ " THEY were ND...that lost them a boatload of respect here in NY metro and most of us east coast Irish have moved south anyway!! The Boston area might be their last ethnic stronghold as the Irish are mostly americans now and only the most hardcore Irish give a sheet! Now we root our American heart as we realize its all media driven garbage anyway about ND....I respect there history yet despise their using my heritage to divide my heart against my love of home. I do love there fightsong though.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Yeah my mom's Irish catholic and I grew up in NJ on ND BUT why do people nationally still have the impression anyone gives a sheet here in NYC metro about ND? If anything those of us left here tired of their shenanigans have grown bitter and root against them now! I can still see the article in the despised NSL about BK begging Savon Huggins not to drop ND from his recruiting list to save NDs image..ND? beggin?...exposed!! Everyone knew overrated or not he WAS a top 3 national RB out of HS and was going to stay home but not ND....they figured.. "ef NJ " THEY were ND...that lost them a boatload of respect here in NY metro and most of us east coast Irish have moved south anyway!! The Boston area might be their last ethnic stronghold as the Irish are mostly americans now and only the most hardcore Irish give a sheet! Now we root our American heart as we realize its all media driven garbage anyway about ND....I respect there history yet despise their using my heritage to divide my heart against my love of home. I do love there fightsong though.

I respect Notre Dame and all they've accomplished. I disrespect guys who pretend to be happy providing them special circumstances. The Big East lived life as an open marriage: the football guys and their Catholic "friends with benefits." The ACC is now living life as a kegger with the football guys dedicating themselves to a strumpet in fishnets and a padded bra.

 

[Marty Jackson]

I see that folks do not get my point...it is not about repping FSU...

It is about whether a program can compete (even in the ACC)...or whether comparative conference talk is all that when it comes to an individual program.

Just how disadvantaged is a team like FSU by not playing in the Big Ten or SEC?


No doubt that the Big Ten brings in the moola. And has for some time with their huge fan bases.

The Big Ten has only won 2 Football National Championships since 1970,

The Big Ten has only won 1 Men's Basketball Championship in the past 25 years.



If...If the purpose of an athletic program is to win the mythical money title....Texas and the Big Ten teams will have it locked up for a decade or more.

Maybe the new measure for team success is:

1. Money

2. Money

3. Extra money

4. Exposure for the school to make more Money

5. Even more money to try and win mythical money title

you nailed it. money is the only thing to count since the BCS came about.
Since then, every change has been a thinly veiled money grab by those with the power to do so.

 

[itgoeslike]

I agree with your point...

If a team can recruit...a team can compete regardless of conference.

And, while it helps to sit in a national recruiting hotbed like Florida...teams now must go national.

Even FSU has their starting QB from Alabama, backup from Pennsylvania, starting OG from Georgia, other starting OG from New Jersey, a starting OT from Georgia, 2nd TE from New Jersey, starting DE's from Texas and Alabama, starting DT from Washington, DC, starting Safeties from Maryland and Georgia.

I think that a team like UConn or Rutgers can succeed on the big stage....but to do so they will have to successfully recruit nationally for great athletes.

UConn just landed 6 recruits in 8 days. At that rate, UConn should have well over 100 commits by Thanksgiving putting it only slightly behind the average SEC school, which average 6X commits to actual scholarships.

 

[TerryD]

Just as TerryD shared the corroboration of ND's inquiry with Big XII, it makes sense that ND would inquire with B1G in a similar manner as Big XII (and similar to final deal struck with ACC). Any smart person/business shops around for the best deal to gauge the market; understand, however, that even if Big XII or B1G "matched the deal" of the ACC (full schedule of olympic sports and partial schedule of football) in terms of athletic scheduling, there are other things the ACC offers Notre Dame that Big XII and B1G cannot match.

1) Does anyone dispute that Notre Dame sought greater East Coast exposure?
-- the Big XII could not match that
-- historically, the B1G could not match that....

So the B1G adds Rutgers and Maryland...
2) Does anyone think Notre Dame's "history" with Rutgers and Maryland compares to Notre Dame's long history with Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, as well as recent history Boston College, Florida State, and Miami?

Given Notre Dame's assertive, self-serving nature (with the resources and results to corroborate and support that nature), I'd conjecture that Notre Dame approached the B1G seeking the impossible deal, "knowing" they'd be rejected, but giving it the ol' college try to gauge the market for their negotiations with their long-preferred suitor, the ACC.

None of this matters if the B1G is happy with the Rutgers and Maryland additions and happy without Notre Dame's partial membership. But there is not unanimity on this perspective, and thus we have great discussions on boards like this.

Notre Dame avoiding Big Ten looking better by the day

Keith Arnold

http://irish.nbcsports.com/2014/06/19/notre-dame-avoiding-big-ten-looking-better-by-the-day/

 

[Kolumbo]

Not that I need to waste my on breath on ND, but since when does it need to do anything to increase its exposure? The only thing closer to it in terms of mythical success/status is Obama. You had the B1G, and you had the Big East. The ACC just moved closer to a Big East type conference, in my opinion. It allowed the virus in, and its poison will spread.

 

[Kolumbo]

Notre Dame avoiding Big Ten looking better by the day

Keith Arnold

http://irish.nbcsports.com/2014/06/19/notre-dame-avoiding-big-ten-looking-better-by-the-day/

Isn't NBC pimping ND like espn pimping the ACC?

 

[Calamitous]

Fact of the matter is, as an Atlanta resident, I can promise you Georgia Tech is nothing more than a blip on the radar with most of the city. It's a transient city comprised of folks around the country with a school made up of a large out-of-state population and graduates that move on to other states. The ACC will claim the entire state of Georgia in its footprint, but it does not remotely compare to Iowa having the whole state in its footprint despite fewer people.

That statement is dead on! This is why an ACCN is going to have trouble getting established. Yes, the markets and cable subscribers are there, but the products are weak in many instances. Another example is Miami versus UConn. The Miami MSA may have 5.5 million residents compared to Connecticut's 3.6 million, but I can assure you that the entire State on CT is covered and followed by UConn alumni, as well as the general fan. Not sure that's the case in Miami. They either follow the Dolphins or like UF & FSU. That's unless Miami is in the National Title hunt again, then Cane fans start coming out of the woodwork (and it's not necessarily an alumni driven fan base). This is why large State schools will work for the B1GN versus the private schools of a potential ACCN. The B1G, SEC, PAC and even B12 schools own their entire respective states, and that is very important. Of the 9 1/2 ACC states, KY, IN, PA and GA belong to the B1G or SEC. MA belongs to the Patriots, Celtics and Bruins. This is where the private school additions hurt, with the exception of SU.

 

[NickyNewark]

That statement is dead on! This is why an ACCN is going to have trouble getting established. Yes, the markets and cable subscribers are there, but the products are weak in many instances. Another example is Miami versus UConn. The Miami MSA may have 5.5 million residents compared to Connecticut's 3.6 million, but I can assure you that the entire State on CT is covered and followed by UConn alumni, as well as the general fan. Not sure that's the case in Miami. They either follow the Dolphins or like UF & FSU. That's unless Miami is in the National Title hunt again, then Cane fans start coming out of the woodwork (and it's not necessarily an alumni driven fan base). This is why large State schools will work for the B1GN versus the private schools of a potential ACCN. The B1G, SEC, PAC and even B12 schools own their entire respective states, and that is very important. Of the 9 1/2 ACC states, KY, IN, PA and GA belong to the B1G or SEC. MA belongs to the Patriots, Celtics and Bruins. This is where the private school additions hurt, with the exception of SU.

No you can include EVEN SU in that bogus footprint outside of hoops in the NYC/NJ /Conn metro is or should'nt have been counted as ACC "territory" but B1G while Mandel gave away about 14M viewers when SU plays in the meadowland(Metlife) area they only bring tops 20G fans like while they played PSU 39G showed(were none PSU fans?) or the previous yr USC while the NJ school playing FCS Howard at the same time 30 mile's away in Piscataway had 50G for a meaningless "game" or "scrimmage". I wonder how many would show when RU plays PSU or OSU or even Wisconsin in that very venue? Where's the beef in Cuse FB following?

 

[buddy]

Unfortunately I had a very similar feeling after reading. Two other thoughts that popped in my head:

1. Delaney from South Orange, NJ - helps explain Rutgers addition?
2. I felt it was almost comical when Mandel (who I like) tried to talk up RU sports with the Woman's BB team going to a couple Final 4's half a decade ago and the pumping of a nationally ranked Wrestling Squad - unintentional comedy

He did everything he could be pump up RU as the future savior of the B1G. He also praised their women's WNIT appearance! But I agree, after reading the article, that any hope of UConn to the B1G in the near future has been erased,

 

[NickyNewark]

He did everything he could be pump up RU as the future savior of the B1G. He also praised their women's WNIT appearance! But I agree, after reading the article, that any hope of UConn to the B1G in the near future has been erased,

Relationships is the key word in CR. And I don't believe UConn is doomed by that rehash article...nothing new in it and that rich gap between NYC north to Boston/Maine is too populous and wealthy to leave empty or unclaimed by the P5 and you're great hoops teams would be an asset on their own yet combine that with great geography and you have gold! Im still stunned the ACC chose L'ville?? Senseless!!

 

[RegisteredUconn]

I wouldn't mind placing a chip or two on the B1G's continuing existence in Mr. Mandel's survive/not survive scenario. Problem is I doubt he has any remaining betting capital given the well understood relationship between fools and money.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

The article is a classic.
Theory is
1+1+1=9
Possibly the dumbest thread in BY history.

 

[Pudge]

Mr. Mandel tweeted that he was joining Fox Sports this morning. (wonder if that network bias carries to new avenue in his columns)