Mandel: Big Ten Fighting for Survival

[TerryD]

Just as TerryD shared the corroboration of ND's inquiry with Big XII, it makes sense that ND would inquire with B1G in a similar manner as Big XII (and similar to final deal struck with ACC). Any smart person/business shops around for the best deal to gauge the market; understand, however, that even if Big XII or B1G "matched the deal" of the ACC (full schedule of olympic sports and partial schedule of football) in terms of athletic scheduling, there are other things the ACC offers Notre Dame that Big XII and B1G cannot match.

1) Does anyone dispute that Notre Dame sought greater East Coast exposure?
-- the Big XII could not match that
-- historically, the B1G could not match that....

So the B1G adds Rutgers and Maryland...
2) Does anyone think Notre Dame's "history" with Rutgers and Maryland compares to Notre Dame's long history with Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, as well as recent history Boston College, Florida State, and Miami?

Given Notre Dame's assertive, self-serving nature (with the resources and results to corroborate and support that nature), I'd conjecture that Notre Dame approached the B1G seeking the impossible deal, "knowing" they'd be rejected, but giving it the ol' college try to gauge the market for their negotiations with their long-preferred suitor, the ACC.

None of this matters if the B1G is happy with the Rutgers and Maryland additions and happy without Notre Dame's partial membership. But there is not unanimity on this perspective, and thus we have great discussions on boards like this.

Notre Dame avoiding Big Ten looking better by the day

Keith Arnold

http://irish.nbcsports.com/2014/06/19/notre-dame-avoiding-big-ten-looking-better-by-the-day/

 

[Kolumbo]

Not that I need to waste my on breath on ND, but since when does it need to do anything to increase its exposure? The only thing closer to it in terms of mythical success/status is Obama. You had the B1G, and you had the Big East. The ACC just moved closer to a Big East type conference, in my opinion. It allowed the virus in, and its poison will spread.

 

[Kolumbo]

Notre Dame avoiding Big Ten looking better by the day

Keith Arnold

http://irish.nbcsports.com/2014/06/19/notre-dame-avoiding-big-ten-looking-better-by-the-day/

Isn't NBC pimping ND like espn pimping the ACC?

 

[Calamitous]

Fact of the matter is, as an Atlanta resident, I can promise you Georgia Tech is nothing more than a blip on the radar with most of the city. It's a transient city comprised of folks around the country with a school made up of a large out-of-state population and graduates that move on to other states. The ACC will claim the entire state of Georgia in its footprint, but it does not remotely compare to Iowa having the whole state in its footprint despite fewer people.

That statement is dead on! This is why an ACCN is going to have trouble getting established. Yes, the markets and cable subscribers are there, but the products are weak in many instances. Another example is Miami versus UConn. The Miami MSA may have 5.5 million residents compared to Connecticut's 3.6 million, but I can assure you that the entire State on CT is covered and followed by UConn alumni, as well as the general fan. Not sure that's the case in Miami. They either follow the Dolphins or like UF & FSU. That's unless Miami is in the National Title hunt again, then Cane fans start coming out of the woodwork (and it's not necessarily an alumni driven fan base). This is why large State schools will work for the B1GN versus the private schools of a potential ACCN. The B1G, SEC, PAC and even B12 schools own their entire respective states, and that is very important. Of the 9 1/2 ACC states, KY, IN, PA and GA belong to the B1G or SEC. MA belongs to the Patriots, Celtics and Bruins. This is where the private school additions hurt, with the exception of SU.

 

[NickyNewark]

That statement is dead on! This is why an ACCN is going to have trouble getting established. Yes, the markets and cable subscribers are there, but the products are weak in many instances. Another example is Miami versus UConn. The Miami MSA may have 5.5 million residents compared to Connecticut's 3.6 million, but I can assure you that the entire State on CT is covered and followed by UConn alumni, as well as the general fan. Not sure that's the case in Miami. They either follow the Dolphins or like UF & FSU. That's unless Miami is in the National Title hunt again, then Cane fans start coming out of the woodwork (and it's not necessarily an alumni driven fan base). This is why large State schools will work for the B1GN versus the private schools of a potential ACCN. The B1G, SEC, PAC and even B12 schools own their entire respective states, and that is very important. Of the 9 1/2 ACC states, KY, IN, PA and GA belong to the B1G or SEC. MA belongs to the Patriots, Celtics and Bruins. This is where the private school additions hurt, with the exception of SU.

No you can include EVEN SU in that bogus footprint outside of hoops in the NYC/NJ /Conn metro is or should'nt have been counted as ACC "territory" but B1G while Mandel gave away about 14M viewers when SU plays in the meadowland(Metlife) area they only bring tops 20G fans like while they played PSU 39G showed(were none PSU fans?) or the previous yr USC while the NJ school playing FCS Howard at the same time 30 mile's away in Piscataway had 50G for a meaningless "game" or "scrimmage". I wonder how many would show when RU plays PSU or OSU or even Wisconsin in that very venue? Where's the beef in Cuse FB following?

 

[buddy]

Unfortunately I had a very similar feeling after reading. Two other thoughts that popped in my head:

1. Delaney from South Orange, NJ - helps explain Rutgers addition?
2. I felt it was almost comical when Mandel (who I like) tried to talk up RU sports with the Woman's BB team going to a couple Final 4's half a decade ago and the pumping of a nationally ranked Wrestling Squad - unintentional comedy

He did everything he could be pump up RU as the future savior of the B1G. He also praised their women's WNIT appearance! But I agree, after reading the article, that any hope of UConn to the B1G in the near future has been erased,

 

[NickyNewark]

He did everything he could be pump up RU as the future savior of the B1G. He also praised their women's WNIT appearance! But I agree, after reading the article, that any hope of UConn to the B1G in the near future has been erased,

Relationships is the key word in CR. And I don't believe UConn is doomed by that rehash article...nothing new in it and that rich gap between NYC north to Boston/Maine is too populous and wealthy to leave empty or unclaimed by the P5 and you're great hoops teams would be an asset on their own yet combine that with great geography and you have gold! Im still stunned the ACC chose L'ville?? Senseless!!

 

[RegisteredUconn]

I wouldn't mind placing a chip or two on the B1G's continuing existence in Mr. Mandel's survive/not survive scenario. Problem is I doubt he has any remaining betting capital given the well understood relationship between fools and money.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

The article is a classic.
Theory is
1+1+1=9
Possibly the dumbest thread in BY history.

 

[Pudge]

Mr. Mandel tweeted that he was joining Fox Sports this morning. (wonder if that network bias carries to new avenue in his columns)

 

[Calamitous]

No you can include EVEN SU in that bogus footprint outside of hoops in the NYC/NJ /Conn metro is or should'nt have been counted as ACC "territory" but B1G while Mandel gave away about 14M viewers when SU plays in the meadowland(Metlife) area they only bring tops 20G fans like while they played PSU 39G showed(where none PSU fans?) or the previous yr USC while the NJ school playing FCS Howard at the same time 30 mile's away in Piscataway had 50G for a meaningless "game" or "scrimmage". I wonder how many would show when RU plays PSU or OSU or even Wisconsin in that very venue? Where's the beef in Cuse FB following?

You may be right, but that leaves the Empire State empty unless Buffalo or Army are the state's main football schools. Rutgers might just be the State University of NY as well, now that I think of it. It's always interesting to me that a state with almost 20 million residents does not have a big name State university in terms of athletics, where a state like Mississippi has 2 (almost 3 if you count So. Miss). I guess it's a pro football > college football thing in NY? To boot, NY's land grant university is a private ivy league school and SU is their forestry school.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

He is not an analyst.

 

[Kolumbo]

You may be right, but that leaves the Empire State empty unless Buffalo or Army are the state's main football schools. Rutgers might just be the State University of NY as well, now that I think of it. It's always interesting to me that a state with almost 20 million residents does not have a big name State university in terms of athletics, where a state like Mississippi has 2 (almost 3 if you count So. Miss). I guess it's a pro football > college football thing in NY? To boot, NY's land grant university is a private ivy league school and SU is their forestry school.

The SUNY system in total has almost 500k students. When you look at the demographics, geography, density, etc. of the region, this system works quite well, and college football was not its primary purpose. If they were to combine Stony Brook, Buffalo, Albany, and Binghamton, that would be one formidable campus.

 

[Calamitous]

When you look at the demographics, geography, density, etc. of the region, this system works quite well, and college football was not its primary purpose.

This is true and great for the Empire State academically.

 

[kyleslamb]

Notre Dame avoiding Big Ten looking better by the day

Keith Arnold

http://irish.nbcsports.com/2014/06/19/notre-dame-avoiding-big-ten-looking-better-by-the-day/

I stopped reading as soon as I read the line that Notre Dame joining the ACC necessitated the Big Ten's move to add Maryland and Rutgers. The whole story fell flat on its face immediately with that rhetoric.

 

[billybud]

LOL....doesn't fit your narrative, does it...although that is also what Alvarez said....

The "story didn't fall flat on its face"...you just didn't like it....to be more precise.

 

[kyleslamb]

LOL....doesn't fit your narrative, does it...although that is also what Alvarez said....

The "story didn't fall flat on its face"...you just didn't like it....to be more precise.

You keep citing one quote from someone that many people have told you that you are entirely taking out of context.

You're still wrong. You were then and you are now.

 

[billybud]

Telling...The B1G admits that they had to move because of ACC expansion.

"“That’s when it changed,” says Delany. “Once people start getting on our doorstep and calling our institutions, then I think it’s important to be able to be offensive and defensive. We came to the conclusion there was more risk in sitting still than there was in exploring other opportunities.”

 

[billybud]

You keep citing one quote from someone that many people have told you that you are entirely taking out of context.

You're still wrong. You were then and you are now.

Huh...who? Big Ten apologists? I read the article...I quoted it....

Out of context? BS...Out of your narrative, maybe.

 

[billybud]

You "stop reading" when you disagree with an article...and then post over and over that something is out of context when you can't refute the words spoken.

But put all of the quotes together and they lead a reasonable person to the conclusion that the B1G was very concerned about the ACC and possible further expansion.

 

[kyleslamb]

Telling...The B1G admits that they had to move because of ACC expansion.

"“That’s when it changed,” says Delany. “Once people start getting on our doorstep and calling our institutions, then I think it’s important to be able to be offensive and defensive. We came to the conclusion there was more risk in sitting still than there was in exploring other opportunities.”

Good grief you're going to great lengths to purposely stay ignorant.

Maryland and Rutgers were always on the radar. Period. That's a fact.

All he's saying is that they decided not to wait any longer. They're saying that the timing may have been expedited by the move, but it didn't change their plans much. Everyone else can see that except you.

You need to realize sometimes people think, sometimes they know.

 

[billybud]

Kyle...a lot of internet posters "know"...join the Dude and MHVER in the those that know column.

 

[Gampeltiles]

The SUNY system in total has almost 500k students. When you look at the demographics, geography, density, etc. of the region, this system works quite well, and college football was not its primary purpose. If they were to combine Stony Brook, Buffalo, Albany, and Binghamton, that would be one formidable campus.

It would also be a very large campus, there has to be some centralized location.

Southeast NY does not care about a bit about college football (its not exactly college hoops crazy either by the Natives-----SU and UCONN are not Natives to SE NY State).

Northwestern NY State---the rustbelt if you will---maybe fertile football terrritory which is why the University of Buffalo is spending huge bucks upgrade their program to escape the MAC. Where they land?

UBUFF envisions itself as having the potential to be"New Yorks University". However, what P5 conference is going to reach out to Buffalo?

 

[Calamitous]

UBUFF envisions itself as having the potential to be"New Yorks University". However, what P5 conference is going to reach out to Buffalo?

UB has close to 30K students, are an AAU member, ranked 101 is USNWR as a tier 1 university with a $550 million endowment. Their sports facilities need more upgrades and programs need to move up a level. They may want to rebrand themselves as "NEW YORK STATE UNIVERSITY." They have tons of potential to move to a conference like the AAC some day... maybe after UCONN leaves for the B1G or ACC

 

[clmssun]

Maryland and Rutgers were always on the radar. Period. That's a fact.

All he's saying is that they decided not to wait any longer. They're saying that the timing may have been expedited by the move, but it didn't change their plans much.

I agree with everything which I quoted above here. I also think that the second paragraph is significant to conveying the whole story.

While I agree that Rutgers and Maryland have long been on B1G radar (since Penn State's admission), I also think their acquisition reeks of expediency. Either (1) These are stepping stones as part of a bigger plan still to be completed or (2) "this is the end of significant conference realignment, I have been boxed in, I have liked these two for a while, I think these are the best two available at this time, I had better grab them while I can."

Both rationales align with everything you asserted in the quote I excerpted.

I know you side with rationale (1). I think rationale (2) has great merit. Given that the ACC grant of rights came after the B1G invitation to RU and UMd, we know that an ACC grant of rights was not an impediment at the time. (We also know that it is the Big Ten who pioneered Grants of Rights in college football media deals.). With no ACC GOR impediment, rationale (1) can make perfect sense at the time of the RU/UMd invitations. Even though the ACC GOR was not in effect at time of RU/UMd invitations, it is now, and rationale (2) stands to be the de facto truth now. Delany has even made statements (post ACC GOR) corroborating "This is the end of significant conference realignment."

 

[Gampeltiles]

UB has close to 30K students, are an AAU member, ranked 101 is USNWR as a tier 1 university with a $550 million endowment. Their sports facilities need more upgrades and programs need to move up a level. They may want to rebrand themselves as "NEW YORK STATE UNIVERSITY." They have tons of potential to move to a conference like the AAC some day... maybe after UCONN leaves for the B1G or ACC

Why would UCONN want to go to the ACC since when UNC is snapped up by the SEC the conference is going to disband, the B1G has financial trouble and never wins championships so clearly their days are numbered and the Big 12 is staying at 10 teams as not to slice the pie into smaller pieces?

Hell, the AAC will be the place to be.

 

[kyleslamb]

Kyle...a lot of internet posters "know"...join the Dude and ER in the those that know column.

I post under my real name. I covered athletics for nearly a decade, starting with local high school sports then college sports. I don't claim to "know" things very often to where it's worth speaking in absolutes. On the very isolated occasion I do, I stand behind my real name to do so. If you think that's somehow comparable to guys getting on an anonymous twitter moniker and posting thousands of daily updates claiming intimate knowledge of every secret meeting had by teams and leagues, then I truly feel sorry for your lack of perspective.

 

[NickyNewark]

I post under my real name. I covered athletics for nearly a decade, starting with local high school sports then college sports. I don't claim to "know" things very often to where it's worth speaking in absolutes. On the very isolated occasion I do, I stand behind my real name to do so. If you think that's somehow comparable to guys getting on an anonymous twitter moniker and posting thousands of daily updates claiming intimate knowledge of every secret meeting had by teams and leagues, then I truly feel sorry for your lack of perspective.

Just remember this kyleslamb ..most BYers ain't stupid and everything you've said has the ring of truth to it and others reek of arrogance and propaganda. I guess when most of the ACC is a secondary conference within the SEC footprint(except NC/VA) it brings out insecurities in some!

 

[buddy]

Whoooaaa-----Puke? Dook? The rich kids that play in an outdated, shack that is looked upon as Holy Grail by Dickie V and the Raleigh/Durham mouthpieces at ESPN?

Like Rod Sellers I will never forgive them for stealing our chance for getting to our first FF during the "dream season". I had to wait 9 freakin' years.

"a shame", now we worry about them? They will be just fine, as will the ACC because they are riddled with enough SOB's that they won't ever fail.

That's what Delany sees, football rivals are more intense than basketball rivals and he has watered
down his conference more than enough.

Which is why the B1G is done expanding and why, we, as Nat'l Champs are still reliant (to a degree) on Dook as a rival, and like it or not as a lifeline.

I am afraid that you may be correct.

 

[Calamitous]

Hell, the AAC will be the place to be.

I remember the Big East football conference being better than the ACC from 2005 through 2008-ish. Virginia Tech was the only good team in the ACC then (depends on your definition of good too) and the Big East had Louisville, USF, WVU and Rutgers. What's to say UCF, Cincinnati and a few others don't start making some noise in the new AAC like the mid-2000s Big East. You never know.