Magic declares Caitlin Clarke 2nd to Diana | Page 5 | The Boneyard

Magic declares Caitlin Clarke 2nd to Diana

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The deacon said:
Definitely winning titles should be an important criteria, Meyers7, just not the sole determinant, as I said earlier.
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That's little better, yes not the sole. However, you said it shouldn't be primary. And that's wrong, it should be one of the primary criteria.
 
MattF said:
Please don't leave Olivia Miles out of this discussion...she's unstoppable, has moves like Maravich, passes like CC and Paige, sees the floor, a team player just beginning her career.
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This post would be more appropriate in a few days (4/1).
 
MattF said:
Please don't leave Olivia Miles out of this discussion...she's unstoppable, has moves like Maravich, passes like CC and Paige, sees the floor, a team player just beginning her career.
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Not yet.
 
meyers7 said:
That's little better, yes not the sole. However, you said it shouldn't be primary. And that's wrong, it should be one of the primary criteria.
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Primary means the chief criteria, and that's where we agree to disagree. I don't feel it should be the primary. There isn't one of the primary criteria...
 
Kaizen said:
DT, Moore and Breanna Stewart are ahead of Clark in my mind.

Those three can bring her team to the NC. Can Clark? BTW I am hoping Iowa to beat South Carolina and wins the 2023 NC .
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Those 3 are certainly in the discussion. But the idea that only an NC confers greatness on an individual in a team sport disregards so many variables in how a team wins games. If Mickey Mantle had played for the Cubs in the 50s and 60s and had the same kind of personal career he had with the Yankees he likely could not have made them world champs. While the NC teams of Diana’ Maya and Stewie might not have won without them, those players also don’t win without significant contributions from teammates. Iowa certainly has SC in the way as well. SC is probably better than Iowa no matter what Clark does. But she is one fun player to watch.
 
cohenzone said:
Those 3 are certainly in the discussion. But the idea that only an NC confers greatness on an individual in a team sport disregards so many variables in how a team wins games. If Mickey Mantle had played for the Cubs in the 50s and 60s and had the same kind of personal career he had with the Yankees he likely could not have made them world champs. While the NC teams of Diana’ Maya and Stewie might not have won without them, those players also don’t win without significant contributions from teammates. Iowa certainly has SC in the way as well. SC is probably better than Iowa no matter what Clark does. But she is one fun player to watch.
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Interesting comparison to those Cubs teams, cohenzone, especially because the Cubbies had a player in Mantle's realm, Ernie Banks, who was twice an MVP and yet couldn't get his team even close to a World Series.
 
Well, the nation will be pulling for her to cement her legend tomorrow night.

She's got an opportunity before her no doubt.
 
browns said:
After watching Caitlin Clark have a 41 point triple double the other night Magic Johnson said that C.C. was the second best player in the history of WCBB behind Diana Taurasi..pretty high praise for DT coming from Magic
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Pretty high Praise for Caitlin IMHO.
 
The deacon said:
Primary means the chief criteria, and that's where we agree to disagree. I don't feel it should be the primary. There isn't one of the primary criteria...
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Sure there are. There are primary things (3 or 4) you are going to look at when determining GOAT status.

But regardless of whether you say primary, secondary, tertiary. Or 1of 3, 1 or 5, 1 of 20. Whatever. Clark still doesn't have any NCs yet and only 1 NPOY. She's NOT in the conversation at this point. Let her finish her career and see what she's got. Then MAYBE, she can be talked about.

But comparing her to DT, Moore, Stewart, Parker, Miller at this point is ridiculous.
 
The deacon said:
Interesting comparison to those Cubs teams, cohenzone, especially because the Cubbies had a player in Mantle's realm, Ernie Banks, who was twice an MVP and yet couldn't get his team even close to a World Series.
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Yup. And Fergie Jenkins, who overlapped the great Banks , with his Cub six 20 plus win years in a row might be the greatest pitcher ever with that kind of record with those teams. The point being judging individual greatness in team sports by team success requires discounting a lot of things.
 
meyers7 said:
WRONG!!!!!! That should be, IS, one of the top criteria for GOAT consideration.

Chamberlain was great, put up crazy numbers. But never won anything. Jordan was great, put up crazy numbers AND WON things. Jordan is in the GOAT conversations, Chamberlain is not.

Marino was great, put up crazy numbers. But never won anything. Brady was great, put up crazy numbers AND WON things. Brady is in the GOAT conversations, Marino is not.

You HAVE TO WIN to be in the GOAT conversations.
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You must have never seen Wilt or Marino play. Stats and championships are overrated when it comes to determining GOAT status, IMO. If you watched them play o er their careers, there could be no question as to whether Wilt was one of the very greatest, if not the single greatest of all time. Same with Marino. It’s hard to pick one goat just from UConn, with so many of the greatest players: Stewie, Diana, Maya and others. Also, the system and quality of players determines stats to a great degree. If Caitlin played on UConn, I believe she would be just as great a player, but on a team with other great players, I doubt her stats would stand out as much. Anyway, until someone comes up with one definition for GOAT, I will stay with what my eyes tell me. And if there is a starting 5 of GOATs, I’ll take Napheesa on my team.
 
cohenzone said:
Your opinion. Mine is closer to Magic. She is close to unstoppable and has great court vision and like Diana is worth the price of admission. Like Diana, she often has the ball in her hands and controls a lot of the way her team succeeds and what the opposition is forced to do. Obviously others are in the discussion, but she is not out of it either.
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She's a Larry Bird. But Bird, though a magnificent player, was not the best player of all time.
 
choclate45 said:
I think it’s a lot harder for one player to have an impact then on a basketball team but that’s just me.
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Maybe Sheryl Swoopes is the best player of all time. She led Texas Tech to the NCAA championship in 1993, scoring 177 points in the 5 games of the tournament and 47 of her teams 84 points against Ohio State in the championship game.
 
Fairfield Fan said:
She's a Larry Bird. But Bird, though a magnificent player, was not the best player of all time.
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Larry Bird isn’t the greatest, but he isdefintely among the top 10-20. Iowa gets no where near winning an NC without her. Is she better than Paige? Maybe, maybe not. Is Paige potentially in a discussion of the top 10 or better? If so, so is Clark. It’s all kind of silly trying to decide among several uniquely talented players who is # 2 or who is # 7. But for me, bottom line as I’ve said, a team winning an NC is not an accurate way to assess individual greatness.
 
meyers7 said:
Sure there are. There are primary things (3 or 4) you are going to look at when determining GOAT status.

But regardless of whether you say primary, secondary, tertiary. Or 1of 3, 1 or 5, 1 of 20. Whatever. Clark still doesn't have any NCs yet and only 1 NPOY. She's NOT in the conversation at this point. Let her finish her career and see what she's got. Then MAYBE, she can be talked about.

But comparing her to DT, Moore, Stewart, Parker, Miller at this point is ridiculous.
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Agreed.

If she plays two more years and wins two more NPOYs, then maybe she's in the conversation.

I get the argument that Stewie had a better supporting cast but Stewie was also 3x NPOY.

Right now, her resume is closer to Kelsey Plum than Stewie or Maya.
 
browns said:
Stewie had the best PF in the game with Tuck and the best PG in the game with MoJo..should have won 4 titles
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That's incredibly reductive and doesn't properly account for Stewie's impact.

2013 ND was loaded. Diggins, Achonwa, McBride, Loyd. Beat UConn 3 times. Then Stewie went supernova for the NCAA tournament and UConn cruised in the final four.

It's not like there were no other strong, star-studded teams in Stewie's era, they just couldn't touch UConn because they didn't have Stewie.

I picked up wcbb relatively recently, but I remember that era and Stewart, not Tuck or Jefferson or anyone else is the reason UConn felt unbeatable.
 
meyers7 said:
Sure there are. There are primary things (3 or 4) you are going to look at when determining GOAT status.

But regardless of whether you say primary, secondary, tertiary. Or 1of 3, 1 or 5, 1 of 20. Whatever. Clark still doesn't have any NCs yet and only 1 NPOY. She's NOT in the conversation at this point. Let her finish her career and see what she's got. Then MAYBE, she can be talked about.

But comparing her to DT, Moore, Stewart, Parker, Miller at this point is ridiculous.
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It's interesting that you feel Clark is not in the conversation and yet dozens of us here on the BY have posted more than 120 messages conversing on that very subject...;)
 
Orangutan said:
Agreed.

If she plays two more years and wins two more NPOYs, then maybe she's in the conversation.

I get the argument that Stewie had a better supporting cast but Stewie was also 3x NPOY.

Right now, her resume is closer to Kelsey Plum than Stewie or Maya.
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Exactly.
 
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