LSU-Tennessee game (merged thread)

[Phil]

Good point about the ACC. It will be a challenge to be the top dog on the ACC, while taking over the SEC will be child's play. That said, being the top dog in the SEC won't have the stature of being the top dog in the ACC, that conference will be loaded.

 

[rford53]

May be a little early to count Tennessee out of the one seed possibilities. Of the eight one seeds in the last two years, half had two or more losses at the time of the selection.

That, of course, is a purely numerical observation, and it makes more sense to look at the current candidates. I think we can safely assume that CT makes the list. Stanford is close to a lock. They only have a single loss. Maybe they stumble against Cal or Colorado, but even if they do, they have two losses and a win over TN, so hard to imagine that TN gets a one seed over Stanford.
However, Notre Dame and duke have two games against each other for certain, and likely a third. In fact, there only way there isn't a third is if one or the other loses early in the conference tournament. So Duke has a loss, and you have to add three losses minimum to the two schools. The best possible outcome is that they both end with two losses, which is the same as TN, so not a certainty that they both get a one seed ahead of TN. If they don't split the right way, one will have at least three losses. That alone makes it very possible that TN gets a one seed ahead of one or the other, without even consdering the possibilityy that MD or UNC or Syracuse or FSU manages an upset.

Another scenario is that ND stumbles against TN, I don't think that is likely, but they have a track record of losing to TN even when seemingly of similar strength.

As Nan points out, even if ND and Duke beat up on each other and knock one of them down to a two seed, Baylor might grab the last one seed ahead of TN, but if CT does its job, Baylor will have two losses as well, so that's not a certainty.

Of course, if Kentucky or LSU hangs anther loss on the LVs, a one seed is out of the picture, but I think it is a bit too early to count it out now.

Phil, the one seeds are not as important for Notre Dame or Stanford, even though I believe both will be one seeds. They and Louisville have home court advantage in the regionals so any other team that might get a one will have to play on their court. And I believe Louisville will be a 2 seed and have the advantage over Duke or Kentucky or Tennessee or whoever might end up a one there. The selection committee will have some interesting decisions to make if most of these teams 2 - 8 are pretty even. Will it be better to be a one seed and face Louisville, Stanford or Notre Dame on their home court or a 2 seed and have to play UConn in Nebraska?

 

[Zorro]

There is also the ugliness that has been rampant in the UT Athletic Department and in the WB program; lawsuits, firings, lots of hard feelings. Simply no telling when or if all that will be sorted out. Not a happy place at the moment, to put it mildly. Plus the shadow of the "coach emeritus".

 

[Bestiarius]

Now I do wonder if the Lady Vol fanbase would accept Jeff or would they prefer a female and one of their own.

I think nepotism is a fact of life in Knutsville. The two wish list names now coming up as Holly's replacement are Nikki Caldwell and Matthew Mitchell. Two people with Tenn ties. They wouldn't consider Geno no matter how much he begged for the job.

 

[UcMiami]

I think nepotism is a fact of life in Knutsville. The two wish list names now coming up as Holly's replacement are Nikki Caldwell and Matthew Mitchell. Two people with Tenn ties. They wouldn't consider Geno no matter how much he begged for the job.

Mitchell, hmmm wonder if he would jump from KY? I suspect not, he would rather beat them than join them. Caldwell is a more likely jump, and probably the third name is true nepotism as in Pat's son.

 

[Tonyc]

Just was thinking. Up to the point with approx. 2+ minutes left LSU had about only 7 turnovers and couple that with with approx. 20 Tenn turnovers, thus the reason for the 15 pt lead. Tenn has a lot of talent and could be very good but when you read the post game comments you can't help but realize that they lack fundamentals. We keep hearing the same comments from the staff and players every time they lose. Those problems haven't been fixed. Right now Tenn is running on talent and against better coached teams that isn't enough. The lady in the video is correct. The coaches need to get tuff .

 

[Tonyc]

There is also the ugliness that has been rampant in the UT Athletic Department and in the WB program; lawsuits, firings, lots of hard feelings. Simply no telling when or if all that will be sorted out. Not a happy place at the moment, to put it mildly. Plus the shadow of the "coach emeritus".

Some of you are talking about a new coach at Tenn. If Im looking for a coach I would go after the coach at Marist, South Dakota Jackrabbits, Jeff Walsh with will be very hard to get as would Matt Mitchell.

 

[jennyo70]

I am of the opinion there is no way JW leaves Louisville. He is building a program. He is on record this past season saying he will retire from Louisville and that his family has no interest in leaving the city (I know, I know, coach speak). However, Tom Jurich is arguably one of the best AD's in the business and there is no way Walz leaves over money, period. Not happening. Jurich has a way of instilling great loyalty in his coaches. There is more than one coach on his staff that he has given their first head coaching job. He has looked passed Walz's stuttering, Strong's interracial marriage ( a problem for Strong in the SEC) something with the baseball coach ( I forget what that was). Jurich believes in his coaches, and he keeps them, at all cost. IF Walz leaves Louisville, it will never be about money.

 

[Wonkster]

I hope that UT has lots of quality losses this year.

You might get your wish fulfilled, Milford. After all, the SEC is a quality conference and that was Tennessee's first conference game this season!

 

[UcMiami]

Some of you are talking about a new coach at Tenn. If Im looking for a coach I would go after the coach at Marist, South Dakota Jackrabbits, Jeff Walsh with will be very hard to get as would Matt Mitchell.

Agree that the smart hire would be to go after one of the really really good mid-major coaches and there are a number of them. Too often in all sports we see retreads and musical chairs instead of taking the chance on a less established but highly talented coach from a lower level.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Interesting. I just posted on another board that Holly's demeanor on the bench screams assistant coach. She doesn't carry herself like a head coach, doesn't seem to have the presence of a head coach on the bench. It's like she hasn't made the transition in her own mind, and perhaps the players haven't either.

Unlike DeMoss, Holly had no head coaching experience, I believe.

 

[HuskyNan]

JW will stay. With a nice salary, hold a speedier path than even Geno on winnings, trips to F4s, why not stay and create a legend instead of trying to continue someone else's legend?

I am a Walz fan. I like him not only as a coach but as a person, too. However, I would like to point out that Geno did not have an Angel McCoughtry on his team when he took over a perennial league cellar dweller. I don't want to demean anything that Jeff Walz has accomplished, but he and Geno started from vastly different places.

 

[MilfordHusky]

You might get your wish fulfilled, Milford. After all, the SEC is a quality conference and that was Tennessee's first conference game this season!

Yay!

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Coach "Holly" as she is called is said to be a believer in a Pat Summit saying (according to VolNationites) that you can't coach effort and that explains last night's loss. That is the worst kind of simplistic sloganism. If you cannot coach effort, you do not deserve to coach. Another word for effort is motivation - coaches motivate or they go home. Coach Holly said they spent all the preseason on defense and post game she said the team did not apply basic defense principles for most of the game. In the Stanford game I watched "the best frontcourt in the game" demonstrate an unwillingness to box out or even try. I enjoy seeing Tenn squirm but I fail to see how it has come to this given the recruits they have gotten. It says there is very much wrong with the Tenn program and that is sad for the women's game.

PS. The Coach "Holly" thing is a tip off.

PPS. Just realized I wasted my 1500th post on this what 3rd or 4th new board on Tennessee...aaarrrgggghh.

 

[HuskyNan]

My concern is that some of the Tenn boosters and fans are contacting A'ja through email, face to face and texting. I have to wonder if the NCAA is watching them and if this would be a violation. Im sure if UConn was doing this Tenn would embarrassedly be filing another 37 page report with the SEC and NCAA. LOL Gotta wonder if they went to Wendy's. LOL

We WILL NOT turn the Boneyard into one of Those Boards that spews unfounded rumors and bandies them about as though it were fact. If people want to throw mud at the wall and hope it sticks, you should be posting Over There and not on the Boneyard.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

We WILL NOT turn the Boneyard into one of Those Boards that spews unfounded rumors and bandies them about as though it were fact. If people want to throw mud at the wall and hope it sticks, you should be posting Over There and not on the Boneyard.

I have a feeling the Tennessee players would play defense hard for you Nan!

 

[HuskyNan]

I have a feeling the Tennessee players would play defense hard for you Nan!

Bet your beak they would. Play hard or take a seat, ladies!

 

[UConnCat]

Dan Flesar is the most objective and knowledgeable reporter covering the Lady Vols. I thought this tweet was pretty insightful:

Dan Fleser ‏@fleserKNS 18h
Those technicals turned out to really hurt. Comeback shouldnt cloud vulnerability of this #ladyvols team. LSU hurt them in multiple ways.

Other teams aren't going to cough it up like LSU almost did at the end of last night's game.

 

[HoopsFan21]

I am a Walz fan. I like him not only as a coach but as a person, too. However, I would like to point out that Geno did not have an Angel McCoughtry on his team when he took over a perennial league cellar dweller. I don't want to demean anything that Jeff Walz has accomplished, but he and Geno started from vastly different places.

Good point. Just think of where WCBB was as a sport when Geno took over (or even when Coach Summitt started out) versus when Walz came into the league 20 years or so later. Huge difference. When Geno took over there were no private jets to go visit recruits, internet, text messaging, recruiting web sites, ESPN coverage, WNBA, etc. The sport is a completely different animal now which is why I laughed during the championship game last year when Doris Burke was claiming that the early career accomplishments of Walz and Geno were very comparable.

 

[pap49cba]

Dan Flesar is the most objective and knowledgeable reporter covering the Lady Vols. I thought this tweet was pretty insightful:

Dan Fleser ‏@fleserKNS 18h
Those technicals turned out to really hurt. Comeback shouldnt cloud vulnerability of this #ladyvols team. LSU hurt them in multiple ways.

Other teams aren't going to cough it up like LSU almost did at the end of last night's game.

Fleser is hated by the Tin Foil Hat wearers because he doesn't drink the Kool Aid.

 

[Boxerpups4me]

Lots of great insight and civil comments from the UConn fans concerning this game. I was at the game, and trust me there were 14000 very upset and sad fans at the end of the game, obviously including myself. It was an emotional roller coaster to be sure. The bottom line is we played flat and emotionless for most of the game. There were quite a few reasons why we lost, and bad officiating wasn't one of them. Sure, there were some bad calls, as there are in every WCBB game. I've been watching Tennessee Lady Vol basketball for years and I don't think I've ever seen a team shoot 6 straight free throws. It was def the icing on the cake to just a overall bad game for us. I will say that I am still behind Holly 100% and I think it's a bit foolish for some of our fans to already talk about which other coaches could replace her. I can understand other teams fans musing over that, but our fans need to get behind Holly 100%. It will be interesting to see how we bounce back against Georgia Sunday. Will we finally come out and play really good defense like we did in the last seven or so minutes of the LSU game, or will we continue to revert back to playing emotionless and flat basketball..Holly needs to get this team fired up and playing team basketball because if she doesn't, we could easily be looking at a ten loss season. Lots of good solid teams in the SEC to be sure..

 

[DobbsRover2]

So essentially UTenn was down by 16 when Simmons left the game if you add the 5 FTs at the 4:37 mark. From there the Vols claw their way back to a chance to tie if a second FT goes in with 16 seconds left. The "addition by subtraction" with Simmons has been discussed on BY a few times, and it doesn't look like a coincidence that UTenn played so much better with her out. True her shooting line was marvelous, but the 5 TOs and PFs to go with 1 reb, 1 assist and 0 steals does kind of make you wonder if she's doing anything when she's not shooting. The fact that she only took 6 shots probably did help UTenn a bit though.

 

[UcMiami]

Good point. Just think of where WCBB was as a sport when Geno took over (or even when Coach Summitt started out) versus when Walz came into the league 20 years or so later. Huge difference. When Geno took over there were no private jets to go visit recruits, internet, text messaging, recruiting web sites, ESPN coverage, WNBA, etc. The sport is a completely different animal now which is why I laughed during the championship game last year when Doris Burke was claiming that the early career accomplishments of Walz and Geno were very comparable.

Agree with both you and Nan, and would add 'facilities' to the list as the old field house takes the prize for dank and uninviting! But I do think JW can be compared to any other first time coach and look good - not his fault that WCBB is in a better place and that he did not take over a really miserable situation. He has built a strong program and has overachieved with the talent he has had. I think it will be a long time if ever before anyone has career numbers that compare with either Pat or Geno in terms of NCs just as no men's coach is likely to come anywhere close Wooden. But if you drop those two out of the equation, Jeff could end his career as best of the rest if he continues on his current form and coaches long enough. Muffet and Tara may have something to say about that!

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Lots of great insight and civil comments from the UConn fans concerning this game. I was at the game, and trust me there were 14000 very upset and sad fans at the end of the game, obviously including myself. It was an emotional roller coaster to be sure. The bottom line is we played flat and emotionless for most of the game. There were quite a few reasons why we lost, and bad officiating wasn't one of them. Sure, there were some bad calls, as there are in every WCBB game. I've been watching Tennessee Lady Vol basketball for years and I don't think I've ever seen a team shoot 6 straight free throws. It was def the icing on the cake to just a overall bad game for us. I will say that I am still behind Holly 100% and I think it's a bit foolish for some of our fans to already talk about which other coaches could replace her. I can understand other teams fans musing over that, but our fans need to get behind Holly 100%. It will be interesting to see how we bounce back against Georgia Sunday. Will we finally come out and play really good defense like we did in the last seven or so minutes of the LSU game, or will we continue to revert back to playing emotionless and flat basketball..Holly needs to get this team fired up and playing team basketball because if she doesn't, we could easily be looking at a ten loss season. Lots of good solid teams in the SEC to be sure..

"we played flat and emotionless for most of the game." Parker Jersey retired and big recruit in the house...what is with that?? You were there. Did Tenn play good defense or did it suddenly dawn on LSU they were going to win and they couldn't take the weight of it?

 

[msf22b]

. Will we finally come out and play really good defense like we did in the last seven or so minutes of the LSU game, or will we continue to revert back to playing emotionless and flat basketball..Holly needs to get this team fired up and playing team basketball because if she doesn't, we could easily be looking at a ten loss season. Lots of good solid teams in the SEC to be sure..

Boxer:

I don't think the problem is effort or "fired up" or flat basketball.
i think the kids play their heart out, always did.

In the music biz we speak about "chops," an individual or group technique.
Technique being something learned, hardly ever intuitive.

On D, the techniques seem largely absent and this has nothin to do with getting into your stance.
When Banks was a freshman, she was in the most picturesque stance of all time and opposing guards blew past her like….whatever.

When the UConn D works, opposing guards are generally over-played on their strong side and encouraged (dared?) to go the other way into the outstreched hands of our inner defense. I didn't see any of that, did you?

Then there were the unabated promenades to the basket by Ms. Ballard.
Part of the team concept of D is "help" and the closely related switching.
Doesn't seem much of that in evidence either.

LSU doesn't shoot a whole lot of 3's so that aspect of UTenns inadequate defense was less exposed.
But against a hot three-point shooting team UTenn has had problems in that area in the past.

Defensive rebounding was pretty lame too.
How did little Ms Ballard get so many O-boards in the first half? Seems to me no team concept of boxing out.
you certainly have the size.

Trying to wrap this up leads to an absence of a coherent philosophy of team D, which is the essence of winning basketball.

LSU wasn't much better in any of these things…and they have a lot of good players too. Much better than people think.
But coherent team BB was in short supply on both sides.

But it sure was a fun game to watch!

But all this nonsense-speak of working harder, digging in, learning from this defeat, yadda yadda are just platitudes and will never make up for an organized system that the few (very few) well-coached teams employ. And D comes first.