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OT: Louisville and ACC

Fishy said:
SMU is not the standard.

And quite frankly, you don't appear to understand what's happened here.

The standard for the death penalty is a second major violation within five years of the announcement of a previous penalty.

Louisville, in July, was given four years of probation, scholarship reductions and recruiting limitations for four level one violations. An assistant coach was given a ten-year show cause and Pitino was charged with a failure to monitor and given a five-game ACC suspension. They also had to forfeit games played with ineligible players and it turns out one of those games was the national championship.

Between the time that Louisville met with the infractions committee and the infractions report was released, they arranged with an undercover FBI agent to deliver $100,000 to one recruit and another five-figure payment to be delivered to a second recruit.

Again.

Five weeks after Louisville met with the infractions committee regarding hookergate, they had two coaches recorded arranging over $100,000 worth of bribes to recruits.

The standard here should be late-80s Kansas. They came the closest by all accounts to receiving the death penalty. (Baylor earned it and did get a half-year penalty., but was given some credit for taking quick action once they realized what was happening. It also bears mention that the first major violation that could have triggered the death penalty was against their tennis program. Louisville and Kansas committed major violations in basketball so I think the KU case is instructive.)

The penalties that brought Kansas to the brink were no where near as severe as Louisville's - compare the two and you come up with two conclusions...

1) Louisville is in dire jeopardy of losing a season.

2) Pitino's show cause might outlive him.
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I fully understand what happened and I agree with your version of events. I still think they will not get the death penalty, but something just short. Maybe something similar to Baylor.

Frankly, I hope I'm wrong, as Louisville's program deserves to be shut down completely for a couple of years.
 
Da_Aisijimo_Gou said:
Free Shoes U fans cackling about free shoes' payments; nope that's not rich!
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Yep...it happened...a few free shoes...every school has its own version..

Local store manager gave athletes some shoes...

Yet there is snickering as much worse comes out.

UConn had to let some assistants go under Calhoun..improper benefits..a show cause entered for former Operations Director, disassociation of a booster, etc...but we do like to forget past transgressions when we snicker at others caught up.

Human nature
 
Pat125 said:
I fully understand what happened and I agree with your version of events. I still think they will not get the death penalty, but something just short. Maybe something similar to Baylor.

Frankly, I hope I'm wrong, as Louisville's program deserves to be shut down completely for a couple of years.
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Here's why I think you might be wrong. Somebody is going to be the sacrifice here. As details come out, so will the torches and pitchforks. Congressmen will start talking about imposing regulations. They are going to have to make a show of how tough they are to avoid that, or the NCAA may well be legislated out of existence.

Watch for anything with Louisville football. If they get tagged with anything, the NCAA is going to have to come down hard, and the ACC might need to as well. The best way for the lightly dirty folks to divert attention from themselves is by hanging the even more dirty people and proclaiming their righteousness.
 
billybud said:
Yep...it happened...a few free shoes...every school has its own version..

Local store manager gave athletes some shoes...

Yet there is snickering as much worse comes out.

UConn had to let some assistants go under Calhoun..improper benefits..a show cause entered for former Operations Director, disassociation of a booster, etc...but we do like to forget past transgressions when we snicker at others caught up.

Human nature
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Lol, really Billy? I think I remember FSU having more problems that " few free shoes."

-FSU Athletes In Academic Scandal

- Florida State Surrounded By Scandals

- Florida State University continues to face damning news reports about Jameis Winston, its Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback who has been accused of rape, and other members of the football team and their alleged crimes
 
HuskyHawk said:
Here's why I think you might be wrong. Somebody is going to be the sacrifice here. As details come out, so will the torches and pitchforks. Congressmen will start talking about imposing regulations. They are going to have to make a show of how tough they are to avoid that, or the NCAA may well be legislated out of existence.

Watch for anything with Louisville football. If they get tagged with anything, the NCAA is going to have to come down hard, and the ACC might need to as well. The best way for the lightly dirty folks to divert attention from themselves is by hanging the even more dirty people and proclaiming their righteousness.
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The best way short of throwing Louisville out of the ACC (which I can't see happening) is the ACC not paying them a penny their share of any money for a few years (I'd say 3-4). That will do as much harm to that program as throwing them out.
 
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FDNY99 said:
The best way short of throwing Louisville out of the ACC (which I can't see happening) is the ACC not paying them a penny their share of any money for a few years (I'd say 3-4). That will do as much harm to that program as throwing them out.
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Then might as well throw them out!
 
billybud said:
Yep...it happened...a few free shoes...Local store manager gave athletes some shoes...
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As if Free Shoes U doesn't symbolize bigger payments to FSU football players or their relatives ... no comparison
 
dogged1 said:
I knew about all of them, but damn when they're listed like that in order, one after the other, that's an overwhelming case. Still, I don't think the Presidents have the cojones for expulsion (and the precedent it would set), but probation or suspension, that could happen.
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Yeah..and they will be put on notice..anything else and you are done...the financial fines they are going to get will be almost as bad as being tossed though
 
For those thinking that if Louisville gets the boot from the ACC, the door swings wide open for UConn, I think Lee Corso has a, "Not so fast, my friend," for you.

Notre Dame, with their 5 game ACC guarantee, is just sitting there and there is no reason to believe certain carve outs, exemptions, and inclusions can't be written into a membership agreement amendment. They already have.

Maybe I'm wrong (won't be the first time, won't be the last), but "let's not start sucking ea...just yet."

That said, I would love an invite from the Big Ten, personally, but a seat at the 3rd most stable P5 conference would be a nice consolation.
 
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Husky25 said:
For those thinking that if Louisville gets the boot from the ACC, the door swings wide open for UConn, I think Lee Corso has a, "Not so fast, my friend," for you.

Notre Dame, with their 5 game ACC guarantee, is just sitting there and there is no reason to believe certain carve outs, exemptions, and inclusions can't be written into a membership agreement amendment. They already have.

Maybe I'm wrong (won't be the first time, won't be the last), but "let's not start sucking ea...just yet."

That said, I would love an invite from the Big Ten, personally, but a seat at the 3rd most stable P5 conference would be a nice consolation.
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I don't think Louisville gets tossed out of the ACC..although is is a possibility...I think they get put on notice 1 more issue and they are gone no questions asked..and given a financial penalty that will be just as bad as being tossed (no conference revenue of any kind for 2-3 years). But ND is already a member of the ACC in all sports but football. They have a scheduling deal with that membership and I don't see them joining in football at all. I do think that the ACC is going to take their sweet time if they do toss UL out in taking the next member...they don't want to happen again what just happened to put them into such a search.
 
FDNY99 said:
..but ND is already a member of the ACC in all sports but football. They have a scheduling deal with that membership and I don't see them joining in football at all...
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No other sport virtually (if not by mandate) requires an even number of teams in order to hold a CCG. Notre Dame becoming a full member relieves that burden.
 
Husky25 said:
No other sport virtually (if not by mandate) requires an even number of teams in order to hold a CCG. Notre Dame becoming a full member relieves that burden.
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they won't do it...if Louisville gets tossed out of the ACC they will be replaced by another school.
 
I put the odds of UL death penalty at 20%.

The odds of the ACC expelling UP at 2%.

Assuming UL doesn't fight it, and they really shouldn't. Any named players will be declared ineligible, they will lose 12 scholarships over 3 or 4 years, and get a 2 year NCAA ban in MBB.

The coaches will never coach in the NCAA again. Show cause for life.

Unless this spills over into FB, UL will survive.

All this assumes they can agree on the violations with the NCAA before March.
 
My fantasy scenario is that 'ville, justifiably, gets tossed and the ACC starts doing UConn due diligence. The B1G gets wind of it and snatches us up.

Unlikely? Sure, but not all that less likely than 'ville getting tossed in the first place.
 
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FDNY99 said:
they won't do it...if Louisville gets tossed out of the ACC they will be replaced by another school.
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I like UConn's chances in that case, but 1) Rule #1, and 2) I'd rather the invite come from the Big Ten (Falls under the category of "No Spartacus, Dick Tracy." I know.).
 
HuskyHawk said:
Here's why I think you might be wrong. Somebody is going to be the sacrifice here. As details come out, so will the torches and pitchforks. Congressmen will start talking about imposing regulations. They are going to have to make a show of how tough they are to avoid that, or the NCAA may well be legislated out of existence.

Watch for anything with Louisville football. If they get tagged with anything, the NCAA is going to have to come down hard, and the ACC might need to as well. The best way for the lightly dirty folks to divert attention from themselves is by hanging the even more dirty people and proclaiming their righteousness.
Expand ...


NCAA will want to know how widespread this is and if UL is representative or an outlier. If half the big BB programs are on Addidas (or Nike) lists of payments for players, then they are less likely to be as harsh.

This episode has parallels to the MLB steroid report. The report, and the punishments, were heavily tilted toward the Yankees, Mets, and players with ties to other players on those teams. Most were American as opposed to Dominican or other nationalities. Why? Because the stitches worked in the MY clubhouse and the American players were easier to find evidence against.

The truth was, and later panned out, that PED use was widespread and international players were heavily involved because ideas logistically harder to catch them until the testing programs caught up.

Playing top players is likely widespread but, only those named publicly by the GOP will get hammered. The NCAA isn't going to dig too deeply on their own.
 
I don't think the ACC will toss Louisville out. However, the Kentucky legislature may decide it's time for Louisville to deemphasize sports as a way to clear out the graft and corruption that infests the university.
 
SubbaBub said:
I put the odds of UL death penalty at 20%.

The odds of the ACC expelling UP at 2%.

Assuming UL doesn't fight it, and they really shouldn't. Any named players will be declared ineligible, they will lose 12 scholarships over 3 or 4 years, and get a 2 year NCAA ban in MBB.

The coaches will never coach in the NCAA again. Show cause for life.

Unless this spills over into FB, UL will survive.

All this assumes they can agree on the violations with the NCAA before March.
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I think you will see the ACC come down on UL monetarily if they don't toot them...withholding any and all conference revenue from them for the length of their MBB tourney ban or a set number of years of their sanctions will hurt just as bad as being tossed.
 
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If Louisville gets the boot, the ACC can open up an application process for the open spot.
 
Husky25 said:
For those thinking that if Louisville gets the boot from the ACC, the door swings wide open for UConn, I think Lee Corso has a, "Not so fast, my friend," for you.

Notre Dame, with their 5 game ACC guarantee, is just sitting there and there is no reason to believe certain carve outs, exemptions, and inclusions can't be written into a membership agreement amendment. They already have.

Maybe I'm wrong (won't be the first time, won't be the last), but "let's not start sucking ea...just yet."

That said, I would love an invite from the Big Ten, personally, but a seat at the 3rd most stable P5 conference would be a nice consolation.
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Ill take any except B12
 
"The ACC has never dumped a member, but if ever a case warranted strong consideration, this is it."

Written by one of the big ACC writers out there David Teel. I don't think anyone knows how this plays out. If the cries call louder and this gets worse I don't think the ACC would hesitate to save face. The case Teel layed out is already damning enough.

ACC should sanction Louisville for continued scandals
 
Short of the death penalty or conference expulsion, Louisville should not be allowed to offer scholarships in FB or MBB for the next 10 years. That will solve two major problems: they will deemphasize their athletic programs and drop out of the ACC. It has to be a much tougher penalty than Penn State since they've managed to bounce back just fine - and way too quickly. They key is eliminating scholarships. Louisville doesn't have the guts to proceed by having coaches post tryout notices in the men's dorm for FB & MBB.
 
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