OT: Louisville and ACC

[Fishy]

As for NCAA penalties, I don't think they receive the death penalty they deserve. They have not quite reached the same level of reckless disregard that SMU had, but they are close. If they somehow breach their current level of stupidity and pull this or some other stunt again, they will receive the death penalty. At they very least, they need to have their MBB NC vacated, ineligible for post season play for at least 3 years, and show-cause penalties for Pitino for at least ten years, and Jurich for a numbers of years pending investigations of his shady activities.

SMU is not the standard.

And quite frankly, you don't appear to understand what's happened here.

The standard for the death penalty is a second major violation within five years of the announcement of a previous penalty.

Louisville, in July, was given four years of probation, scholarship reductions and recruiting limitations for four level one violations. An assistant coach was given a ten-year show cause and Pitino was charged with a failure to monitor and given a five-game ACC suspension. They also had to forfeit games played with ineligible players and it turns out one of those games was the national championship.

Between the time that Louisville met with the infractions committee and the infractions report was released, they arranged with an undercover FBI agent to deliver $100,000 to one recruit and another five-figure payment to be delivered to a second recruit.

Again.

Five weeks after Louisville met with the infractions committee regarding hookergate, they had two coaches recorded arranging over $100,000 worth of bribes to recruits.

The standard here should be late-80s Kansas. They came the closest by all accounts to receiving the death penalty. (Baylor earned it and did get a half-year penalty., but was given some credit for taking quick action once they realized what was happening. It also bears mention that the first major violation that could have triggered the death penalty was against their tennis program. Louisville and Kansas committed major violations in basketball so I think the KU case is instructive.)

The penalties that brought Kansas to the brink were no where near as severe as Louisville's - compare the two and you come up with two conclusions...

1) Louisville is in dire jeopardy of losing a season.

2) Pitino's show cause might outlive him.

 

[shizzle787]

I have heard the same thing today

Scalitoing sweet.

 

[Chin Diesel]

The FBI is definitely going to do its job to get more info. That's a given. And they will. This only the tip of the iceberg. One AD is gone. The other schools named have got to have very nervous ADs. Presidents of these schools are going to be held to task. There is no safe zone in this one. The charges the FBI is talking about are federal ones and can bring serious jail time in a federal prison.

The NCAA and Emmert had better keep their collective mouths shut. They were kept in the dark - not good for them. Emmert and company have little credibility as it is. If, when its time, Emmert doesn't come down hard on Louisville (death penalty) and the other schools, the NCAA as a governing body is done. All credibility will be lost. And the NCAA really has to look at a lifetime ban on coaches who break the rules/ laws. No more going scott free. Pitino should never be able to coach at an NCAA school ever again. All of the allegations fall under "institutional control." This can't be ignored.

Every school that has a shoe deal should be nervous. Someone is going to sing like a bird to save their butt. Especially if the deal is with Adidas. Other shoe manufacturers are probably scrambling right now. Again, no one is safe.

The ACC has a serious problem. Its not only Louisville, its Miami too. Miami has a history of serious problems with their athletic programs. They may decide it is in their best interests to remove Louisville = FSU, Clemson and Miami be damned. If the ACC doesn't act, it will be seen by many as a tacet acceptance of Louisville's recruiting tactics.

I put this in another thread. You have to think every university's general counsel was busy today putting all their coaches on notice to come forward now to give the university top cover for when the feds come knocking.

 

[Adios]

If we come out of this clean (and probably will), we're going to the Big Ten!

/somewhatsarcasm

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Comments from Warchant: FSU guys

....Once one of these shoe execs cops a plea I would guess there are going to be ALOT more schools implicated...this is white collar save your own ass from going to prison crime...one of these guys is going to chirp like a canary

Free Shoes U fans cackling about free shoes' payments; nope that's not rich!

 

[Pat125]

SMU is not the standard.

And quite frankly, you don't appear to understand what's happened here.

The standard for the death penalty is a second major violation within five years of the announcement of a previous penalty.

Louisville, in July, was given four years of probation, scholarship reductions and recruiting limitations for four level one violations. An assistant coach was given a ten-year show cause and Pitino was charged with a failure to monitor and given a five-game ACC suspension. They also had to forfeit games played with ineligible players and it turns out one of those games was the national championship.

Between the time that Louisville met with the infractions committee and the infractions report was released, they arranged with an undercover FBI agent to deliver $100,000 to one recruit and another five-figure payment to be delivered to a second recruit.

Again.

Five weeks after Louisville met with the infractions committee regarding hookergate, they had two coaches recorded arranging over $100,000 worth of bribes to recruits.

The standard here should be late-80s Kansas. They came the closest by all accounts to receiving the death penalty. (Baylor earned it and did get a half-year penalty., but was given some credit for taking quick action once they realized what was happening. It also bears mention that the first major violation that could have triggered the death penalty was against their tennis program. Louisville and Kansas committed major violations in basketball so I think the KU case is instructive.)

The penalties that brought Kansas to the brink were no where near as severe as Louisville's - compare the two and you come up with two conclusions...

1) Louisville is in dire jeopardy of losing a season.

2) Pitino's show cause might outlive him.

I fully understand what happened and I agree with your version of events. I still think they will not get the death penalty, but something just short. Maybe something similar to Baylor.

Frankly, I hope I'm wrong, as Louisville's program deserves to be shut down completely for a couple of years.

 

[billybud]

Free Shoes U fans cackling about free shoes' payments; nope that's not rich!

Yep...it happened...a few free shoes...every school has its own version..

Local store manager gave athletes some shoes...

Yet there is snickering as much worse comes out.

UConn had to let some assistants go under Calhoun..improper benefits..a show cause entered for former Operations Director, disassociation of a booster, etc...but we do like to forget past transgressions when we snicker at others caught up.

Human nature

 

[HuskyHawk]

I fully understand what happened and I agree with your version of events. I still think they will not get the death penalty, but something just short. Maybe something similar to Baylor.

Frankly, I hope I'm wrong, as Louisville's program deserves to be shut down completely for a couple of years.

Here's why I think you might be wrong. Somebody is going to be the sacrifice here. As details come out, so will the torches and pitchforks. Congressmen will start talking about imposing regulations. They are going to have to make a show of how tough they are to avoid that, or the NCAA may well be legislated out of existence.

Watch for anything with Louisville football. If they get tagged with anything, the NCAA is going to have to come down hard, and the ACC might need to as well. The best way for the lightly dirty folks to divert attention from themselves is by hanging the even more dirty people and proclaiming their righteousness.

 

[CL82]

Yep...it happened...a few free shoes...every school has its own version..

Local store manager gave athletes some shoes...

Yet there is snickering as much worse comes out.

UConn had to let some assistants go under Calhoun..improper benefits..a show cause entered for former Operations Director, disassociation of a booster, etc...but we do like to forget past transgressions when we snicker at others caught up.

Human nature

Lol, really Billy? I think I remember FSU having more problems that " few free shoes."

-FSU Athletes In Academic Scandal

- Florida State Surrounded By Scandals

- Florida State University continues to face damning news reports about Jameis Winston, its Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback who has been accused of rape, and other members of the football team and their alleged crimes

 

[SubZero]

Likely that FSU pushed hard for Louisville to the ACC because they want to make sure they were not the most corrupt program in the conference.

 

[FDNY99]

Here's why I think you might be wrong. Somebody is going to be the sacrifice here. As details come out, so will the torches and pitchforks. Congressmen will start talking about imposing regulations. They are going to have to make a show of how tough they are to avoid that, or the NCAA may well be legislated out of existence.

Watch for anything with Louisville football. If they get tagged with anything, the NCAA is going to have to come down hard, and the ACC might need to as well. The best way for the lightly dirty folks to divert attention from themselves is by hanging the even more dirty people and proclaiming their righteousness.

The best way short of throwing Louisville out of the ACC (which I can't see happening) is the ACC not paying them a penny their share of any money for a few years (I'd say 3-4). That will do as much harm to that program as throwing them out.

 

[Stinger92860]

The best way short of throwing Louisville out of the ACC (which I can't see happening) is the ACC not paying them a penny their share of any money for a few years (I'd say 3-4). That will do as much harm to that program as throwing them out.

Then might as well throw them out!

 

[FDNY99]

ACC should sanction Louisville for continued scandals

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Yep...it happened...a few free shoes...Local store manager gave athletes some shoes...

As if Free Shoes U doesn't symbolize bigger payments to FSU football players or their relatives ... no comparison

 

[dogged1]

ACC should sanction Louisville for continued scandals

I knew about all of them, but damn when they're listed like that in order, one after the other, that's an overwhelming case. Still, I don't think the Presidents have the cojones for expulsion (and the precedent it would set), but probation or suspension, that could happen.

 

[FDNY99]

I knew about all of them, but damn when they're listed like that in order, one after the other, that's an overwhelming case. Still, I don't think the Presidents have the cojones for expulsion (and the precedent it would set), but probation or suspension, that could happen.

Yeah..and they will be put on notice..anything else and you are done...the financial fines they are going to get will be almost as bad as being tossed though

 

[Husky25]

For those thinking that if Louisville gets the boot from the ACC, the door swings wide open for UConn, I think Lee Corso has a, "Not so fast, my friend," for you.

Notre Dame, with their 5 game ACC guarantee, is just sitting there and there is no reason to believe certain carve outs, exemptions, and inclusions can't be written into a membership agreement amendment. They already have.

Maybe I'm wrong (won't be the first time, won't be the last), but "let's not start sucking ea...just yet."

That said, I would love an invite from the Big Ten, personally, but a seat at the 3rd most stable P5 conference would be a nice consolation.

 

[Adios]

The ACC is the 4th most stable. Big Ten, PAC-12, SEC.

 

[FDNY99]

For those thinking that if Louisville gets the boot from the ACC, the door swings wide open for UConn, I think Lee Corso has a, "Not so fast, my friend," for you.

Notre Dame, with their 5 game ACC guarantee, is just sitting there and there is no reason to believe certain carve outs, exemptions, and inclusions can't be written into a membership agreement amendment. They already have.

Maybe I'm wrong (won't be the first time, won't be the last), but "let's not start sucking ea...just yet."

That said, I would love an invite from the Big Ten, personally, but a seat at the 3rd most stable P5 conference would be a nice consolation.

I don't think Louisville gets tossed out of the ACC..although is is a possibility...I think they get put on notice 1 more issue and they are gone no questions asked..and given a financial penalty that will be just as bad as being tossed (no conference revenue of any kind for 2-3 years). But ND is already a member of the ACC in all sports but football. They have a scheduling deal with that membership and I don't see them joining in football at all. I do think that the ACC is going to take their sweet time if they do toss UL out in taking the next member...they don't want to happen again what just happened to put them into such a search.

 

[Husky25]

..but ND is already a member of the ACC in all sports but football. They have a scheduling deal with that membership and I don't see them joining in football at all...

No other sport virtually (if not by mandate) requires an even number of teams in order to hold a CCG. Notre Dame becoming a full member relieves that burden.

 

[FDNY99]

No other sport virtually (if not by mandate) requires an even number of teams in order to hold a CCG. Notre Dame becoming a full member relieves that burden.

they won't do it...if Louisville gets tossed out of the ACC they will be replaced by another school.

 

[SubbaBub]

I put the odds of UL death penalty at 20%.

The odds of the ACC expelling UP at 2%.

Assuming UL doesn't fight it, and they really shouldn't. Any named players will be declared ineligible, they will lose 12 scholarships over 3 or 4 years, and get a 2 year NCAA ban in MBB.

The coaches will never coach in the NCAA again. Show cause for life.

Unless this spills over into FB, UL will survive.

All this assumes they can agree on the violations with the NCAA before March.

 

[CL82]

My fantasy scenario is that 'ville, justifiably, gets tossed and the ACC starts doing UConn due diligence. The B1G gets wind of it and snatches us up.

Unlikely? Sure, but not all that less likely than 'ville getting tossed in the first place.

 

[Husky25]

they won't do it...if Louisville gets tossed out of the ACC they will be replaced by another school.

I like UConn's chances in that case, but 1) Rule #1, and 2) I'd rather the invite come from the Big Ten (Falls under the category of "No , Dick Tracy." I know.).

 

[SubbaBub]

Here's why I think you might be wrong. Somebody is going to be the sacrifice here. As details come out, so will the torches and pitchforks. Congressmen will start talking about imposing regulations. They are going to have to make a show of how tough they are to avoid that, or the NCAA may well be legislated out of existence.

Watch for anything with Louisville football. If they get tagged with anything, the NCAA is going to have to come down hard, and the ACC might need to as well. The best way for the lightly dirty folks to divert attention from themselves is by hanging the even more dirty people and proclaiming their righteousness.

NCAA will want to know how widespread this is and if UL is representative or an outlier. If half the big BB programs are on Addidas (or Nike) lists of payments for players, then they are less likely to be as harsh.

This episode has parallels to the MLB steroid report. The report, and the punishments, were heavily tilted toward the Yankees, Mets, and players with ties to other players on those teams. Most were American as opposed to Dominican or other nationalities. Why? Because the stitches worked in the MY clubhouse and the American players were easier to find evidence against.

The truth was, and later panned out, that PED use was widespread and international players were heavily involved because ideas logistically harder to catch them until the testing programs caught up.

Playing top players is likely widespread but, only those named publicly by the GOP will get hammered. The NCAA isn't going to dig too deeply on their own.