LOL Pats Fans - it never ends

[Dynasty]

From 2007 onward - when the rule regarding ball preparation was changed - there have been seven New England Patriots' running backs who have also played for other teams. All seven of them posted demonstrably better fumble rates in New England uniforms than with the rest of the league:

Player, carries per fumble w/ Patriots, carries per fumble w/ rest of NFL

Laurence Maroney, 116, 36

Heath Evans, 130, 17

Sammy Morris, 84, 50

BenJarvus Green Ellis, infinite (510 total carries), 100

Fred Taylor, 106, 93

Danny Woodhead, 83, 68

LeGarrette Blount, 71, 49

Now, this all could just be a coincidence, and even if it's not, it doesn't necessarily mean the Patriots are guilty. However, it does beg the question, "why do the Patriots fumble at such a staggeringly low rate in comparison to the rest of the league?" For that there are multiple theories and no decided proof in either direction, but the circumstantial evidence does point towards there being a long-standing preference in New England with regard to how these balls are handled. It could be that the Patriots have always erred closer to the minimum threshold, which in turn prevented fumbles.

Then again, I don't agree with the notion that this is a small deal. If the Patriots have been doctoring footballs, that likely contributes very directly to minimizing turnovers, which contributes very directly to the win/loss column.

Did you get this from Sharpfootballanalysis? This has already been debunked several times.


http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/your-guide-to-deflate-gateballghazi-related-statistical-analyses/

 

[PcketknfNiels]

Pretty much on the level with most sports journalists.

The original report came from Mike Reiss, beat reporter at ESPN. His take is more succinct and frankly better anyway:

Why do I think this has been made to be a bigger deal than it is? I go back to the Vikings-Panthers game from November, with teams illegally heating footballs on the sideline and simply getting a warning from the NFL, and wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. I go back to the Chargers using an illegal sticky substance on towels in 2012 and getting fined $25,000, and likewise wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. Put the three situations together and only one requires a full-fledged investigation that will cost owners millions of dollars? In the interest of fairness, what am I missing?

Once again, E$PN flexing their muscle. If the Pats had been piping in crowd noise and the Falcons had been deflating balls, this entire thread would be talking about PA systems/directors/effects of noise on players during games.

 

[superjohn]

“Maybe those guys gotta study the rule book and figure it out. We obviously knew what we were doing and we made some pretty important plays."

You know who said that? Tom Brady. To the Ravens when they questioned the Pats 'ineligible receiver' plays in the playoffs. It's against the rules to alter the footballs Tom, study the rule book.

Karma is a b__ch.

 

[dogpause]

How long before McNally, the locker room attendant, and or Jastremski, aka The Deflator, decide to cash in and tell the whole story? My guess is that it won't be long.

 

[mauconnfan]

Then you better be checking every move every other team is making. You know for a fact that no other team is doing something to gain an advantage? Of course you because you are such an NFL expert.

And of course you yourself have never broken a rule...never exceeded the speed limit, never drove home having had one too many glasses of wine at dinner... But you are not a HOF'er so all of that does not apply.

Who else got caught? If my team gets caught I won't be looking for every Tom Dick and Harry writer with an article trying to say this is unfair and support your theories. It's humorous to see all the time you guys have to try to say he had nothing to do with this. I mean don't you honestly believe they have something very strong to throw those numbers out? He's guilty, admit it and move on. Geez

 

[RayRay19]

This whole thing is overblown....NFL loves it which is why they released the story now after the draft when everything slows back down...

 

[UChusky916]

If the league cared that much about those things, then why weren't the teams in my post directly above dealt with in the same manner? A $20,000 fine?

The patriots went to extensive measures to circumvent the rules and to deflate those footballs post-official's inspection . And then when investigated they lied and refused to cooperate. Add that to the fact that they were rightfully treated as repeat offenders from Spygate and there you have your formula for more severe punishment.

If Brady had cooperated right from the beginning and admitted that they intentionally deflate balls, I think you're looking at nothing more than 1 game suspension for Brady and a $250,000 fine for the Pats. Probably no draft picks. And the story would have blown over by now.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

How long before McNally, the locker room attendant, and or Jastremski, aka The Deflator, decide to cash in and tell the whole story? My guess is that it won't be long.

If they have family in the Hub, it could be a while. Snitches and scapegoats are treated roughly by Boston townies. Just ask Bill Bucker.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

The patriots went to extensive measures to circumvent the rules and to deflate those footballs post-official's inspection . And then when investigated they lied and refused to cooperate. Add that to the fact that they were rightfully treated as repeat offenders from Spygate and there you have your formula for more severe punishment.

If Brady had cooperated right from the beginning and admitted that they intentionally deflate balls, I think you're looking at nothing more than 1 game suspension for Brady and a $250,000 fine for the Pats. Probably no draft picks. And the story would have blown over by now.

Even a (brave) writer in the Boston Globe agrees, of course, the fans don't. If Brady fessed-up right from the beginning, he would have been slapped (fined) and no suspension or draft picks and this story would have died a while ago. Unfortunately, the Pats organization from top to bottom comes off as arrogant, spoiled, very good team that doesn't care what the rules are and what the world thinks of them. Thus the bullseye on their back.

http://www.boston.com/sports/column...e_has_reached.html?p1=feature_sec_hp#comments

 

[champs99and04]

Did you get this from Sharpfootballanalysis? This has already been debunked several times.


http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/your-guide-to-deflate-gateballghazi-related-statistical-analyses/

Nope, I got it straight from http://www.pro-football-reference.com/

 

[Husky25]

If Brady had cooperated right from the beginning and admitted that they intentionally deflate balls, I think you're looking at nothing more than 1 game suspension for Brady and a $250,000 fine for the Pats. Probably no draft picks. And the story would have blown over by now.

That's not true. Wells said that the League didn't take the allegations seriously. This who charade is 100% on the league. It could have blown over with a statement of, "We'll look into it." The NFL let it happen.

Then, because they went through this ridiculously overblown investigation, they had to place blame. The investigation was not independent, nor unbiased. Wells' only marching orders were, "Protect the Shield," which means no blame on the NFL or the Referees (Imagine the Integrity of the Game charges otherwise?). Obviously, the equipment managers were getting the ax, but they are small potatoes. Again, imagine if the NFL spent in excess of $1 million for a sham report only finding fault with a part time ball boy? That leaves Brady as the only party of consequence. The $1 million fine to the Patriots (ownership, GM, and coach of which were found to have zero knowledge of the goings-on) was only so the NFL could cover it's costs paid to Wells' law firm. Ironically, the Patriots make out in the deal because they get to withhold $2 million they would owe Brady for the 4 game suspension (that will never stand up. It's getting reduced to 2).

Be that as it may, had the NFL gotten out in front of it, this whole ordeal would have resulted in a small fine. Instead, they have egg on their face.

 

[TasteofUConn]

the Pats organization from top to bottom comes off as arrogant, spoiled, very good team

This is the strained chorus sung by fans of lesser teams to describe a dynastic power.

 

[Coach McGurk]

My "deflate-gate" take: Pats Punishment doesn't fit crime, but may fit previous one.
Disclaimer: Hate the pats; they crapped on the state of CT and UConn in late 90's when they lied about moving to Hartford
...Anyway, "people" including former PA gov Ed Rendell have been saying forever that Spygate was far more comprehensive than just taping a Jets walkthrough in 2007, but goes as far back as superbowl 38 (several Eagles claim the pats knew all of the audibles and made perfec...t adjustments in superbowl 39, 2005). Pats get caught Spygating, and NFL reviews the evidence. Discovers evidence of a far reaching taping regiment going back up to 4 years. NFL (this is a fact) destroys all evidence without letting anyone outside review it; punishes Pats for taping the jets practice only.
...I am thinking the NFL told the pats they dogged a HUGE bullet (so the NFL could protect the shield) and that they better not do ANYTHING like that EVER again or else....Thinking this was the "or else"

 

[mauconnfan]

This is the strained chorus sung by fans of lesser teams to describe a dynastic power.

Just curious about something having to do with your "dynasty" - wondering the score of the last game you won vs the Giants in the Super Bowl?

 

[Husky25]

If they have family in the Hub, it could be a while. Snitches and scapegoats are treated roughly by Boston townies. Just ask Bill Bucker.

Buckner's (don't forget the "n") tenure as a scapegoat lasted about a year and a half. As peoples' minds cleared and returned to normal, more and more blamed Calvin Schiraldi, Bob Stanley, and later, John McNamara in Game 7, than Buckner.

Buckner returned to Boston as a Red Sox player in 1990 and received a 4 minute standing ovation. He's been interviewed dozens of times and he's stated that his move to Idaho was not because he felt scapegoated. He was not an east coaster. If he had any ill-will towards his time in Boston he would not have named his real estate project, "Fenway Park."

 

[Husky25]

Just curious about something having to do with your "dynasty" - wondering the score of the last game you won vs the Giants in the Super Bowl?

C'mon, Mau. Applying the same logic to your beloved baseball team, are the Yankees not dynastic because they lost 13 World Series? Just sayin'...

I know for a fact that you are smarter than that.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

This is the strained chorus sung by fans of lesser teams to describe a dynastic power.

Arrogance is being told not to do something and then doing it anyway, which basically summarizes the prior scandal that Pats were caught in, Spygate.

There is a right and a wrong way to win. As I have said before, the Pats are good enough to win without all of these shenanigans; but, continue to do so anyway. That is the wrong way to win.

 

[CL82]

Good lord, you are ridiculous. Don't put words in my mouth, bud. You can mischaracterize my position all you want, it doesn't make you right. Either your reading comprehension is awful or you're just willfully ignorant.

Reread your post. It says what it says.

 

[mauconnfan]

C'mon, Mau. Applying the same logic to your beloved baseball team, are the Yankees not dynastic because they lost 13 World Series? Just sayin'...

I know for a fact that you are smarter than that.[/QUOTE

Point is not that 25 as I am smarter and I agree they are somewhat of a dynasty but please read his reply completely to better understand is of an arrogant nature which I tend to fall victim to - a strained chorus sung by fans of lesser teams - please many of us have won and won plenty to not believe we are "lesser" by any stretch. This is completely about not admitting a flaw in the organization and not about who is the dynasty here. It's that arrogance that is annoying.

Why you would bring up the Yankees I have no idea?

 

[Jerry1714]

How long before McNally, the locker room attendant, and or Jastremski, aka The Deflator, decide to cash in and tell the whole story? My guess is that it won't be long.

Tom, the stand-up guy he is, hung them out to dry so they have no reason not to unless Tom offered them a ton of money to take the fall. Tom claimed he did not know the Deflator yet had a ton of calls with him right after the story broke, wonder what they were talking about..............

 

[johnhuskies95]

Reread your post. It says what it says.

No, I didn't. Where did I say that? I said that Wells said they were breaking the rules, not me.

 

[Taco]

Not directly responding to anything here, but it seems that all the commentary is assuming the balls in the AFCCG were deflated after the Refs signed off on them...is there real proof of that. From listening to the radio, you'd think a video surfaced of the ballboy deflating them they speak so matter of fact that this definitely happened.

Taking away any fandom, they don't appear to have compelling proof that the balls in the AFCCG were deflated. The texts (total hearsay) were not in the same time period as that game.

If I'm a QB in the NFL, I'm very attuned to how much inflation the footballs I have to throw have. If he instructed the equip mgr of what this is wouldn't surprise me. It also wouldn't surprise me if he was told or if there was an understanding to get the balls to that level. These are his tools & any good craftsman would want his tools correct.

Whether that inflation level is below 12.5 PSI is not known. If it was above that level it's a very small crime - akin to a pitcher rubbing the ball to get a better grip. If it's below this prescribed level it is a serious violation.

Just hate all the conjecture / there is a lot of stuff just being made up & then others pass it along a facts - WMD-like.

 

[Husky25]

Why you would bring up the Yankees I have no idea?

All fans of dynastic franchises are arrogant. As tame as Yankee have been in recent times, they were downright insufferable from the mid 90's through early '00s. By virtue of you quoting "dynasty," your post indicates the Patriots may not be a dynasty because they lost to the Giants in between Super Bowl wins. It is still quite the dynastic feat to get to the Super Bowl 6 times in 14 years, let alone win it 4 times. Similarly, the Yankees have been to the World Series 40 times, but they are declared a dynasty despite losing 13 of them. To get more specific in my - obviously rhetorical - question, are the Stengel/Houk Era Yankees not a dynasty because of 1957,'59, and 60?

I'm sure it begs the question if I consider the Braves a dynasty by the above definition and my answer is no. As much consistent success as the Braves had in between 1991 - 2005 (14 straight division championships, World Series appearances in 91, 92, 95, 96, 99, and 01.), except for 1995, there was always a better team. Not true for the Patriots or Yankees.

 

[UChusky916]

That's not true. Wells said that the League didn't take the allegations seriously. This who charade is 100% on the league. It could have blown over with a statement of, "We'll look into it." The NFL let it happen.

Then, because they went through this ridiculously overblown investigation, they had to place blame. The investigation was not independent, nor unbiased. Wells' only marching orders were, "Protect the Shield," which means no blame on the NFL or the Referees (Imagine the Integrity of the Game charges otherwise?). Obviously, the equipment managers were getting the ax, but they are small potatoes. Again, imagine if the NFL spent in excess of $1 million for a sham report only finding fault with a part time ball boy? That leaves Brady as the only party of consequence. The $1 million fine to the Patriots (ownership, GM, and coach of which were found to have zero knowledge of the goings-on) was only so the NFL could cover it's costs paid to Wells' law firm. Ironically, the Patriots make out in the deal because they get to withhold $2 million they would owe Brady for the 4 game suspension (that will never stand up. It's getting reduced to 2).

Be that as it may, had the NFL gotten out in front of it, this whole ordeal would have resulted in a small fine. Instead, they have egg on their face.

Patriot fans are the only ones I see blaming the NFL for not taking proper precautions with the balls and ball maintenance before the games.
Fact of the matter is, there was never a need to take proper precautions until now. Only the Patriots would go to such lengths to gain a competitive advantage and now force the need for pre-game ball security precautions.

Patriot fans looking for anyone else to blame but Brady or anyone on the team itself.

 

[Yonick]

Just like Cinncinati Reds fans who were the only fans ho felt Pete did no wrong. Patriot fans are the only fans in the world that feel Brady & the Pats did nothing wrong.
Fans are overcome with blindness when it comes to their own.

 

[upstater]

Did you get this from Sharpfootballanalysis? This has already been debunked several times.


http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/your-guide-to-deflate-gateballghazi-related-statistical-analyses/

Someone also this morning pointed out the Patriots fumble less on the road than at Foxboro, and so far no one has said anything other than the ball guys deflate the balls for Brady, and yet we know it's the home team ball guys that are responsible for balls on the road. McNally for instanc is a part time employee, 8 games a year, and he never travels.

 

[upstater]

How long before McNally, the locker room attendant, and or Jastremski, aka The Deflator, decide to cash in and tell the whole story? My guess is that it won't be long.

Somehow these schmoes went through 4 separate interviews and still didn't contradict each other. A pretty impressive performance by. Part time 12 bucks an hour ballboy. Impressive

 

[upstater]

Wells report states if the ref used the logo gauge, there is no discrepancy between Patriots balls and Colts balls.

Ref said he used logo gauge.

Then the Wells people lied.

Fans are stupid and that's what Wells relies on.

Even a Wells lawyer last night said the gauges don't matter. Yet in the report, it says if the logo gauge was used initially, there is no discrepancy at all.

You guys are being lied to and it's not even hidden. It's in your face. And the only reason you refuse to acknowledge is that you're haters and that the Patriots have win too many games over too many years.

 

[Husky25]

Patriot fans are the only ones I see blaming the NFL for not taking proper precautions with the balls and ball maintenance before the games.
Fact of the matter is, there was never a need to take proper precautions until now. Only the Patriots would go to such lengths to gain a competitive advantage and now force the need for pre-game ball security precautions.

Patriot fans looking for anyone else to blame but Brady or anyone on the team itself.

Were you snickering when you hit the "Post Reply" button? There is ALWAYS A NEED to take proper precaution. The question is: To what level of appropriateness can be deemed proper.

In this case, the fact of the matter is the NFL duckked themselves way back in 2006 when it gave the quarterbacks the ability to submit their own balls, without following any standardized guidelines. If air pressure was really important to the NFL, 1) They would document the air pressure before and after each game. 2) They wouldn't have let the Patriots play the first half with balls that the Referee misplaced for 10 minutes.

I'm not saying that Brady did or did not do what Wells accuses him of (and that's all this is. An accusation. A prosecution paper). I am saying that the evidence is flimsy. I am saying that the NFL and officials are also culpable. I am saying that the sole point of the investigation was to, Defend the Shield," I am saying that the report, and Wells by extension, did a pi$$-poor job of doing just that.

 

[Deepster]

Wells report states if the ref used the logo gauge, there is no discrepancy between Patriots balls and Colts balls.

Ref said he used logo gauge.

Then the Wells people lied.

Fans are stupid and that's what Wells relies on.

Even a Wells lawyer last night said the gauges don't matter. Yet in the report, it says if the logo gauge was used initially, there is no discrepancy at all.

You guys are being lied to and it's not even hidden. It's in your face. And the only reason you refuse to acknowledge is that you're haters and that the Patriots have win too many games over too many years.

You are really starting to tiptoe that line of being obsessed and delusional to where we should be concerned for your well being.