LOL Pats Fans - it never ends

[CallMeBruce]

4 super bowl win QB's. It's kinda the way people don't count all of AROD's or Bond's homers. Brady in the same boat.

That's not the issue. The issue is that Bradshaw wasn't a great quarterback. He was a good quarterback on loaded teams with a brilliant coach.

 

[Rocktheworld]

UConn admits to major NCAA violations
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5662321

Not even a violation anymore. If, within the next couple years, the rules are changed to allow air pressure to be lower, I do think that it hits less.

For me, deflategate in itself is not a big deal. It's the conglomerate of Belichick/Brady messing around multiple times over the years, bending the duck out of the rules, sometimes breaking them. It just makes the legacy stink in general because there is a real encompassing history of skeevy behavior

 

[upstater]

Some of you probably don't believe in evolution.

Here are some pages from the Wells report that are interesting:

Page 198-99 of the report (page 39 Table 10 of the Exponent report). The expected drop in pressure from 70 degrees to 48 is 1.13 for a ball filled to 12.5.

On page 7 of their report, Table 4, the average measured drops at halftime between the two testing officials was 1.39 and 1.01.

Funny stuff, the science was dismissed when their own science lab (which once "proved" cancer is not related to smoking) shows balls would drop to that range.

 

[nomar]

That was one of the best plays of all time, and it mystifies me that it isn't seen that way.

The Tyree helmet catch was a lucky play...yet it shows up on so many lists as the greatest catch ever. Eli's scramble to escape the sack was the more impressive part of that play.

But the Manningham catch? Nothing lucky about it.

What was lucky about it? Tyree kept his composure, made an incredible catch, and out-toughed Harrison. Eli made a great play to escape a sack, but (a) he was the beneficiary of holding and (b) Tyree made AN AMAZING CATCH.

It's not lucky just because he was an unheralded player. Mediocre players make phenomenal plays sometimes.

You're right about Manningham, though. Sorry, Pats fans, it's not lucky just because someone makes a great play against you.

 

[upstater]

4 super bowl win QB's. It's kinda the way people don't count all of AROD's or Bond's homers. Brady in the same boat.

Steorids help you hit homeruns. Underinflated balls do what?

How does Brady do with inflated balls within the range? With overinflated balls?

Given the absolute certainty that science says balls drop PSI in temp changes, I can guarantee you that Brady (and every other cold weather QB) have played a lot of games with underinflated balls.

37 for 50 and 4 TDs in the Super Bowl.

 

[upstater]

What was lucky about it? Tyree kept his composure, made an incredible catch, and out-toughed Harrison. Eli made a great play to escape a sack, but (a) he was the beneficiary of holding and (b) Tyree made AN AMAZING CATCH.

It's not lucky just because he was an unheralded player. Mediocre players make phenomenal plays sometimes.

You're right about Manningham, though. Sorry, Pats fans, it's not lucky just because someone makes a great play against you.

It just goes both ways. I mean, the Seattle receiver kept his concentration too and made a great play with the bobble. Malcolm Butler made an unbelievable play too. They all made unbelievable plays. Pete Carroll was 99% certain that would work, was not expecting Butler to make that incredible play. If you recall Belichick was miked on the sidelines saying that Manningham would have to beat them on the outside, no one else. Same thing. Belichick is putting a 1% probability on that happening. And for Manning to even throw that duck to Tyree, a few things have to happen. Asante Samuel has to drop a sure INT on the previous play, and Manning has to somehow get out of the scrum.

Little plays, luck, astounding concetration, etc. This is how you win. It's how you lose.

 

[nomar]

The equipment manager was nicknamed "The Deflator" and was rewarded by Brady (directly) with autographed footballs and a game worn jersey.

At his presser in January, he said "I have no knowledge of wrongdoing" and "I don't know what happened over the course of the process with the footballs. I was preparing for my own job, doing what I needed to do".

Spin it however you'd like to spin it. Spin it just like you did with Papi and Manny. It's okay. We're used to that.

When you can identify what Papi tested positive for, Sox fans will admit Papi used PEDs. So please let me know. I'll wait.

Now, if there were texts from some GNC employees talking about sending roids to Ortiz, you might have something.

 

[August_West]

Steorids help you hit homeruns. Underinflated balls do what? How does Brady do with inflated balls within the range? With overinflated balls? Given the absolute certainty that science says balls drop PSI in temp changes, I can guarantee you that Brady (and every other cold weather QB) have played a lot of games with underinflated balls. 37 for 50 and 4 TDs in the Super Bowl.

They help you grip the ball, squeeze the ball and not fumble the ball. I forget which running back, I will dig for the post, but there was a pats running back who fumbled the ball more in 1/2 a season on his new team than he did the pervious 2-4 years combined on the pats. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not

 

[nomar]

It just goes both ways. I mean, the Seattle receiver kept his concentration too and made a great play with the bobble. Malcolm Butler made an unbelievable play too. They all made unbelievable plays. Pete Carroll was 99% certain that would work, was not expecting Butler to make that incredible play. If you recall Belichick was miked on the sidelines saying that Manningham would have to beat them on the outside, no one else. Same thing. Belichick is putting a 1% probability on that happening. And for Manning to even throw that duck to Tyree, a few things have to happen. Asante Samuel has to drop a sure INT on the previous play, and Manning has to somehow get out of the scrum.

Little plays, luck, astounding concetration, etc. This is how you win. It's how you lose.

It's semantics, I guess. That bobble was unlikely, and "unlucky" for the Pats, but yeah that was a good play too.

You could say literally every play involves luck, since the offense is guessing what the defense will be doing and vice versa.

 

[upstater]

They help you grip the ball, squeeze the ball and not fumble the ball. I forget which running back, I will dig for the post, but there was a pats running back who fumbled the ball more in 1/2 a season on his new team than he did the pervious 2-4 years combined on the pats. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not

That study was ripped apart in seconds. Because it only looked at fumbles recovered. the number of fumbles were the same.

At the end of the day, I will say this again. The Wells report science guys gave an expected pressure drop based on atmsopheric conditions.

The balls fell within the expected range.

So--given the fact the balls were tested as expected, why was there additional work to do?

The passages I posted above about Brady being angry that the Jets game balls were around 16 PSI, are more telling. And he even told the assistant to bring the rule book with him to show the referees that 12.5 PSI was legal and acceptable, and that there was no need to pump the balls up to 16 PSI.

This was Brady's testimony. In the report.

Brady is mad at the assistant because he wants those damn balls deflated.

 

[superjohn]

That study was ripped apart in seconds. Because it only looked at fumbles recovered. the number of fumbles were the same.

Do you think McNally and Jastremski deflated footballs for Brady? Do you think Brady had knowledge that this is something they do to his footballs?

 

[intlzncster]

4 super bowl win QB's. It's kinda the way people don't count all of AROD's or Bond's homers. Brady in the same boat.

If we are going by 'wisdom of the crowd" standards:

Montana threw to Rice (who was "cheating"). Therefore, all those championships are 'tainted'. Bradshaw admitted to doing sterioids. His whole team was juiced. Therefore, those championships are 'tainted'.

Elway's Broncos violated the salary cap during each of their Championships. This is probably the worst violation of them all because it added direct extra value on the field. Therefore, those championships are 'tainted'.

btw, I personally don't think any of these championships are tainted. And most people don't either. Just the Patriots' championships. And therein lies the hypocrisy.

 

[Jerry1714]

I like to post this whenever Brady is mentioned. Guy is such a , sorry Tommy Cheater you are actually only going to score 14 points.

 

[intlzncster]

They help you grip the ball, squeeze the ball and not fumble the ball. I forget which running back, I will dig for the post, but there was a pats running back who fumbled the ball more in 1/2 a season on his new team than he did the pervious 2-4 years combined on the pats. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not

Or it might have to do with the fact that he played with far crappier players and far crappier coaches (who don't managed ingame as well either). Which is more likely the case. He also would have been on the bench had he been fumbling in NE.

[Benjarvis Green Ellis is his name]

 

[upstater]

Do you think McNally and Jastremski deflated footballs for Brady? Do you think Brady had knowledge that this is something they do to his footballs?

Brady has said they deflated footballs for him to get them at 12.5 back in the January presser.

The anger I see from Brady here is that they didn't deflate balls that were pumped to 16 PSI.

Brady has always maintained he wanted those balls at 12.5.

Why are you denying basic science by the way? The Wells Report itself calculated where those balls should be at. And they were!!!

 

[UConn990411]

What was lucky about it? Tyree kept his composure, made an incredible catch, and out-toughed Harrison. Eli made a great play to escape a sack, but (a) he was the beneficiary of holding and (b) Tyree made AN AMAZING CATCH.

It's not lucky just because he was an unheralded player. Mediocre players make phenomenal plays sometimes.

You're right about Manningham, though. Sorry, Pats fans, it's not lucky just because someone makes a great play against you.

You can make a great play AND be lucky at the same time. But yes, I consider a mediocre receiver (who never played another down in the NFL after that game) catching the ball off his freakin' helmet to be a lucky play.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I am not a Pat's or really an NFL fan, but I am a devout student of logic.
I would think a truth would be any football establishments whether they be NFL or
NCAA ,CIAC, or even at youth levels would want to optimize the level of play.
The caveats would be ,that no laws were broken,or the health of the participants adversely affected.
A caveat that in the NFL is routinely ignored.
If inflating a football to 10 PSIs rather than the minimum of 12 enhances performormace wouldn't that indicate an arbitrary number of 12 is a ridicules rule.
Making rules that defy logic simply because you can are akin to the emperor having no cloths.

 

[Husky25]

1) The "more likely than not" / "more probable than not" is the standard used in the league rule that was violated (it's also called "preponderance of the evidence" or the legal standard used in civil cases). It's explained extremely clearly in the first footnote and the first page after the introduction. It's not used because the Paul Weiss lawyers "weren't sure" if there was wrongdoing. They found that there was wrongdoing based on the standard that the rule used.

2) The report found that the Patriots DID NOT fully cooperate in the investigation, which is also a rule violation. Brady refused to turn over his texts and emails (and it could not have been for personal reasons because Paul Weiss said his lawyers only needed to turn over information related to the lawsuit). And the Pats didn't let the lawyers interview McNally a second time per request. Either of these may have lead to even more damaging information. So the report didn't exonerate the Pats at all.

Did the underinflated balls matter? Almost certainly not. They were the better team throughout the postseason, and their win in the Super Bowl was deserved. But would it kill Boston sports fans to admit that maybe their team did something they shouldn't have done? I know A-Rod cheated, and I still like A-Rod (particularly because of how much he pisses off the loathsome Yankee front office). Ultra-competitive people sometimes will look for that extra edge. It's pretty clear that the Brady did that here, despite the fact that he didn't need to. Give him his slap on the wrist, and let's all move on. By going through this ridiculous charade, Patriots supporters are only prolonging this nonsense.

1. They concluded that there was wrongdoing. The "More probable than not," relates to whether Brady was aware of it. The "evidence" is, more probable than not, very circumstantial.

2. A) There was no lawsuit. B) Ted Wells does not have subpoena power. C) The Patriots declined to let the Wells Committee interview McNally for a 5th time (not second). The committee interviewed him 4 times. What more info would a 5th interview uncover? D) The report is not in the least bit objective.

 

[Calhoun's Court]

Brady got caught. Take your suspension and move on.

You know this wasn't the first time. This is just the first time he got caught.

It's not like the league is taking away your Super Bowl against the Rams for having their practice tape.

 

[August_West]

Holy Moly, If you think this thread is bad you should see the Meltdowns Pats fans are having on Facebook.
I swear that this fans posts scream Boneyarder to me.

Which one of you is this guy? Tell me that is not the perfect 'Yarder.
http://facebook.com/profile.php?=73322363.

 

[August_West]

Youre probably right. Im going to edit.

oops I missed the editing window.
Mods feel free to edit if warranted.

It is a neat trick, but yeah, if people melt down about a deflated football, this may cause a heart attack, and I dont want be responsible for that.

 

[CL82]

You answered your own question. You think all the Boston teams are in the conversation for greatest of all-time. It's been pointed out to you many times how incredibly stupid this is. The Celtics are the only team that has a legitimate claim to greatest of all-time in their sport, the other Boston teams can't even come close to being in the conversation. You seem to not understand what you said.

Fair enough, John. I think that multiple championship teams get to be in the conversation, you don't. Being in the conversation doesn't grant them the title. Why does that bother you so much?

 

[CL82]

Boom! That certainly didn't make it's way into the headlines, did it?