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LOL Pats Fans - it never ends

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mauconnfan said:
2003 report - haven't seen it but heard it enough.

And if that ain't enough check his stats in Minny before he met Manny. That's enough!;)
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See, this is exactly what I mean. People are throwing out a very serious accusation without having any basis for it.

Here's what happened. The Mitchell Report came out. Ortiz's name was not in it. Subsequently, the New York Times published an article that reported that some unnamed lawyer had said that Ortiz's name was on a list of players who tested positive for something (such as an over-the-counter product). Ortiz has said someone told him the same thing. Only he's never been told what he supposedly tested positive for. Nobody has ever identified whatever substance he allegedly tested positive for in the 12 years since that test was done. I think we can all agree there is a huge difference between someone taking steroids or HGH versus someone ingesting something relatively innocuous 12 years ago. (Nowadays, players are quite vigilant about taking stuff from GNC, as some of it will cause them to fail a test. But we are talking about a dozen years ago.)

That allegation by an unnamed lawyer, and the fact that his career took off when he joined the Red Sox, is the entire basis of the claim that Ortiz used PEDs.

Meanwhile, he's been tested hundreds of times in the last 12 years. All negative. And his numbers have been strong throughout, except when he had a wrist injury.

Like I said to Deep, when someone can identify the specific substance that Ortiz allegedly tested positive for, I'll admit he's a doper. Because as of now, there's zero evidence of it. I don't count a New York Times article as evidence.

Clemens used HGH. We know that. There's evidence. A-Rod and Bonds, too. There are witnesses and documents. Here, nothing. Zilch.
 
Shocking that the Mitchell Report didn't have a Red Sox player's name in it. George Mitchell was on the Board of Directors for the Red Sox, and the only witnesses he could make testify were two New York-area drug dealers. The Mitchell Report was the biggest sham I've ever seen.
 
Unbelievable denial. I know it's not the Giants fan in you nomar so I will forgive you. But please he's a cheater always has been always will be. And by the way 2004 was full of them on your roster but I guess we'll never know huh?
 
CallMeBruce said:
Shocking that the Mitchell Report didn't have a Red Sox player's name in it. George Mitchell was on the Board of Directors for the Red Sox, and the only witnesses he could make testify were two New York-area drug dealers. The Mitchell Report was the biggest sham I've ever seen.
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Haha. This is funny. Really. You're talking about the guy chosen to negotiate peace deals involving Northern Ireland and the Middle East.

There were Sox players' names in the report, by the way.
 
mauconnfan said:
Unbelievable denial. I know it's not the Giants fan in you nomar so I will forgive you. But please he's a cheater always has been always will be. And by the way 2004 was full of them on your roster but I guess we'll never know huh?
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If this was a debate (or a trial) before any judge or jury, I would have soundly beaten you. You don't even have a rebuttal. What drug did he test positive for again?

I don't think anybody wants to get into how many PED users were on various title teams.
 
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nomar said:
Haha. This is funny. Really. You're talking about the guy chosen to negotiate peace deals involving Northern Ireland and the Middle East.

There were Sox players' names in the report, by the way.
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At the time the report was commissioned, he was on the payroll of the Red Sox. That's a fact. The only two people whose testimony went in the report were Radomski and McNamee, both of whom were New York-based dealers. Radomski worked for the Mets, and McNamee for the Yankees. He omitted all of Larry Starr's testimony from the final report. These are also facts. If that sounds fine to you, then you're probably a Red Sox fan.
 
CallMeBruce said:
Shocking that the Mitchell Report didn't have a Red Sox player's name in it. George Mitchell was on the Board of Directors for the Red Sox, and the only witnesses he could make testify were two New York-area drug dealers. The Mitchell Report was the biggest sham I've ever seen.
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Mo Vaughn
 
CallMeBruce said:
At the time the report was commissioned, he was on the payroll of the Red Sox. That's a fact. The only two people whose testimony went in the report were Radomski and McNamee, both of whom were New York-based dealers. Radomski worked for the Mets, and McNamee for the Yankees. He omitted all of Larry Starr's testimony from the final report. These are also facts. If that sounds fine to you, then you're probably a Red Sox fan.
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And what would Starr have said?

I'm not saying Mitchell did a perfect job. It was an impossible job to cover everything and he was also accused of being too tight with MLB owners. But he nailed guilty people. Your complaint is that he should have also nailed well-known Red Sox players, I guess.

In the legal world, lawyers and judges are always supposed to avoid the appearance of impropriety. Selig shouldn't have asked Mitchell, and Mitchell shouldn't have said yes.

I keep going back to proof, in talking with you and Mau. It's not my fault that there's no proof against Ortiz and that there is proof against Clemens. I guess you think that's due to a Selig-Mitchell conspiracy?
 
CallMeBruce said:
Shocking that the Mitchell Report didn't have a Red Sox player's name in it. George Mitchell was on the Board of Directors for the Red Sox, and the only witnesses he could make testify were two New York-area drug dealers. The Mitchell Report was the biggest sham I've ever seen.
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Bigger than even the Wells Report? Good Grief.

Incidentally, I will tie this situation with baseball for the first time in 8 pages. What deflate----(I won't do it) ultimately comes down to is an equipment violation.

In hockey, using an over-curved stick is removal of the stick and a 2 minute minor penalty for the offending player. In Baseball, the penalty for being caught with a corked bat (since 1970) has been anywhere between 7 games and 10 days and potential fine. Even if a MLB team plays a game on each day of the suspension, 10 games is 1/16 of the season. Precedent dictates that punishment should amount to anything from a 15 yard penalty (Yeah, sure) to 1 game suspension. Brady will appeal and knock it down to 30 minutes of game time at the Patriots discretion (I.E. Brady won't be able to play defense or special teams).
 
CallMeBruce said:
Vaughn left the Red Sox nearly a decade before the report came out. There were no active Red Sox players listed. There were several active Yankee players.
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There were a dozen or so Sox players named. Two were current, including Gagne. Don't recall the other. The report quoted several Sox officials as openly speculating that Gagne was a PED user.
 
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willie99 said:
Brady should be suspended because somebody THINKS he lied and cheated?

not one shred of substantive evidence, not one statement, not one video, not one smoking gun, just a ten second sound bite the haters swallow whole without reflex
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The evidence is clear to everyone who isn't a blind Pats banwagon/supporter. The texts clearly indicate he was involved deflating the balls and the. He goes and lies about his involvement something that cost Sean Payton a year. I would be shocks if he isn't suspended for at least 4 games
 
Maybe it's just me, but the text about deflating a ball more likely in reference to balls TB thought were over-inflated.

I would think every QB would tell their equipment person one way or the other. Aaron Rogers equipment person prob complains about him always telling him to further inflate.
 
Taco said:
Maybe it's just me, but the text about deflating a ball more likely in reference to balls TB thought were over-inflated.

I would think every QB would tell their equipment person one way or the other. Aaron Rogers equipment person prob complains about him always telling him to further inflate.
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Don't tell this to the mob. They wants a lynchin'.
 
nomar said:
There were a dozen or so Sox players named. Two were current, including Gagne. Don't recall the other. The report quoted several Sox officials as openly speculating that Gagne was a PED user.
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George Mitchell being commissioned to run that investigation was absurd, anyone with a brain knew what the findings of that bogus report would be, a million Yankees. Mitchell was on the Red Sox board of directors, this is when the Yankees had a heated rivalry and the Red Sox named the Yankees the Evil Empire. If you've looked into David Ortiz and you still don't think he was juicing then you are a fool.
 
willie99 said:
Brady should be suspended because somebody THINKS he lied and cheated?

not one shred of substantive evidence, not one statement, not one video, not one smoking gun, just a ten second sound bite the haters swallow whole without reflex
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This is so false. There is not enough evidence to convict in a court of law. But there is evidence. And in a court of law, Brady's phone and McNally's appearance would be subpoenaed.
 
BleedHuskyBlu said:
The evidence is clear to everyone who isn't a blind Pats banwagon/supporter. The texts clearly indicate he was involved deflating the balls and the. He goes and lies about his involvement something that cost Sean Payton a year. I would be shocks if he isn't suspended for at least 4 games
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Waat. The Saints had a pay to injure system going on. That was the problem.

So now we have equated steroids, bounties on players.... What's next?

The Kennedy assassination?
 
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intlzncster said:
Waat. The Saints had a pay to injure system going on. That was the problem.

So now we have equated steroids, bounties on players.... What's next?

The Kennedy assassination?
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GrassyKnollFiles.jpg
I'm no forensic expert but that is Mr. Brady
 
David 76 said:
This is so false. There is not enough evidence to convict in a court of law. But there is evidence. And in a court of law, Brady's phone and McNally's appearance would be subpoenaed.
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Agreed on Brady's phone, but 99 is correct. There is no substantive evidence. It's all conjecture and innuendo. You can't distinguish tone from text messages. How many times does a Boneyarder get all hot and bothered over a sarcastic comment that they think is serious only because there is no emoticon?

Also, the McNally follow up interview request would be for interview #5. The dude is a part-time "ball boy," working for a football team only on a couple handfuls of Autumn afternoons. He's not Deepthroat.
 
nomar said:
If this was a debate (or a trial) before any judge or jury, I would have soundly beaten you. You don't even have a rebuttal. What drug did he test positive for again?

I don't think anybody wants to get into how many PED users were on various title teams.
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Nah you wouldn't I would find some answers somewhere if I had to and it was my job to do so. They're out there somewhere in a closed file.

By the way I never denied we had a few no doubt. But every champ has had multiple's since the 90's I am sure.
 
superjohn said:
If you've looked into David Ortiz and you still don't think he was juicing then you are a fool.
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State the argument. State the evidence. Or admit you don't have any.

Superjohn is a murderer. If you don't think so you're a fool. Easy, right? An anonymous source told me.
 
superjohn said:
What's with Patriots fans making it out that the Manningham catch was some sort of lucky play? That was just a perfect textbook sideline throw and catch.
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Where did I ever say it was lucky? I'm just saying one play can change the legacy of a franchise.
 
Rocktheworld said:
you're dense.
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Are you kidding me? You straight up said "IF IT WEREN'T FOR UCONN, KENTUCKY WOULD HAVE 3 NC". 2011? Who's to say Butler wouldn't have beaten Kentucky? Who's the real dense one... My point was that Calipari isn't as successful in his respective sport as Belichick, therefore it's EASIER to bash Calipari, and the what-if game is completely irrelevant.
 
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Husky25 said:
Agreed on Brady's phone, but 99 is correct. There is no substantive evidence. It's all conjecture and innuendo. You can't distinguish tone from text messages.

No. 99 said there was not a shred of evidence. You are saying there is not enough evidence. And as far as a criminal trial, I agree with you. But this is not a criminal trial. It looks bad
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The audacity of ARod to do a curtain call to fans who clearly despise him.
 
FartMan69 said:
The audacity of ARod to do a curtain call to fans who clearly despise him.
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Over the last 10 years, who is the Yankee that Yankee fans dislike the most?
 
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