LOL Pats Fans - it never ends

[intlzncster]

1) As it's been stated in this thread many other times, other QBs admit they have ball preferences and say they like their footballs a certain way, but the officials still approve the balls prior to the game. The Patriots went out of the way to circumvent the rules by modifying the balls AFTER the officials inspected the ball. There's a clear difference there.

2) NFL said that it was excessive with the punishment because it viewed Patriots as repeat offenders... as they should have since the same ownership/coach is in place.

3) Serious crimes that happen off the field do not interfere with the outcome or integrity of the game. Deflating balls is a clear attempt to gain a competitive advantage in the game itself. That counts for something compared to what happens OFF the field from 1 players mistake. Granted, I can see what you're saying here, and as I stated above, I expect the suspension to be reduced to 2 games after appeal.

If the league cared that much about those things, then why weren't the teams in my post directly above dealt with in the same manner? A $20,000 fine?

This is why some compare the Patriots to UCONN. Because the punishment far outweighed anything remotely resembling the crime.

 

[zyron]

It’s also hard to figure—as far as integrity is concerned—why a multi-million-dollar investigation didn’t spring from the godhead of NFL commissioner Roger Goodell after the San Diego Chargers were caught applying a sticky, grip-enhancing substance to towels in 2012. Can you imagine befouling a league-approved towel in this manner? It’s almost as if the Chargers don’t even believe in society! When officials noticed the infraction, the San Diego staff tried to conceal their sticky towels, and for this the NFL fined the team $20,000, because Goodell wanted to get a real close look at the Chargers’ sticky towels.

It technically wasn't against the rules to use the towels.

Why did you leave this part out?

 

[intlzncster]

It technically wasn't against the rules to use the towels.

Why did you leave this part out?

Didn't see it. But then why were they fined? Because they tried to hide it. Funny part is that sticky substances are against the rules on hands and balls. S0 yeah, the towels just hung there flapping in the wind.

Also, the point about the footballs is more germane.

 

[sammydabiz]

It's no coincidence that Tom Brady and Lance Armstrong are good buddies. They deserve each other

 

[champs99and04]

From 2007 onward - when the rule regarding ball preparation was changed - there have been seven New England Patriots' running backs who have also played for other teams. All seven of them posted demonstrably better fumble rates in New England uniforms than with the rest of the league:

Player, carries per fumble w/ Patriots, carries per fumble w/ rest of NFL

Laurence Maroney, 116, 36

Heath Evans, 130, 17

Sammy Morris, 84, 50

BenJarvus Green Ellis, infinite (510 total carries), 100

Fred Taylor, 106, 93

Danny Woodhead, 83, 68

LeGarrette Blount, 71, 49

Now, this all could just be a coincidence, and even if it's not, it doesn't necessarily mean the Patriots are guilty. However, it does beg the question, "why do the Patriots fumble at such a staggeringly low rate in comparison to the rest of the league?" For that there are multiple theories and no decided proof in either direction, but the circumstantial evidence does point towards there being a long-standing preference in New England with regard to how these balls are handled. It could be that the Patriots have always erred closer to the minimum threshold, which in turn prevented fumbles.

Then again, I don't agree with the notion that this is a small deal. If the Patriots have been doctoring footballs, that likely contributes very directly to minimizing turnovers, which contributes very directly to the win/loss column.

 

[2north]

“Maybe those guys gotta study the rule book and figure it out. We obviously knew what we were doing and we made some pretty important plays."

You know who said that? Tom Brady. To the Ravens when they questioned the Pats 'ineligible receiver' plays in the playoffs. It's against the rules to alter the footballs Tom, study the rule book.

 

[intlzncster]

Pretty much on the level with most sports journalists.

The original report came from Mike Reiss, beat reporter at ESPN. His take is more succinct and frankly better anyway:

Why do I think this has been made to be a bigger deal than it is? I go back to the Vikings-Panthers game from November, with teams illegally heating footballs on the sideline and simply getting a warning from the NFL, and wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. I go back to the Chargers using an illegal sticky substance on towels in 2012 and getting fined $25,000, and likewise wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. Put the three situations together and only one requires a full-fledged investigation that will cost owners millions of dollars? In the interest of fairness, what am I missing?

 

[2north]

Pretty much on the level with most sports journalists.

The original report came from Mike Reiss, beat reporter at ESPN. His take is more succinct and frankly better anyway:

Why do I think this has been made to be a bigger deal than it is? I go back to the Vikings-Panthers game from November, with teams illegally heating footballs on the sideline and simply getting a warning from the NFL, and wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. I go back to the Chargers using an illegal sticky substance on towels in 2012 and getting fined $25,000, and likewise wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. Put the three situations together and only one requires a full-fledged investigation that will cost owners millions of dollars? In the interest of fairness, what am I missing?

What's missing is the Patriots arrogance in thinking they can continually bend and break the rules. No matter the theory, Belicheat was still fined $500k for Spygate.

 

[intlzncster]

What's missing is the Patriots arrogance in thinking they can continually bend and break the rules. No matter the theory, Belicheat was still fined $500k for Spygate.

UCONN was banned from the post season. It must have been justified. Great logic.

 

[2north]

UCONN was banned from the post season. It must have been justified. Great logic.

This has nothing to do with UConn, the situations are not equal. Nor is Pete Rose or Lance Armstrong or whatever other non-relevant sport you want to bring up.

 

[PcketknfNiels]

Brady cannot be considered greatest qb of all time after this cheating incident. He just can't. He definitely was on his way though. Like I said in another thread, Brady becomes Gaylord Perry instead of Tom Seaver. Great player who cheated.

Oh god, so you're one of those guys that refuses to recognize Bonds or any other confirmed roid guy too huh? Bonds, like Brady, are the only ones who (might) have cheated, right?

 

[Dynasty]

From 2007 onward - when the rule regarding ball preparation was changed - there have been seven New England Patriots' running backs who have also played for other teams. All seven of them posted demonstrably better fumble rates in New England uniforms than with the rest of the league:

Player, carries per fumble w/ Patriots, carries per fumble w/ rest of NFL

Laurence Maroney, 116, 36

Heath Evans, 130, 17

Sammy Morris, 84, 50

BenJarvus Green Ellis, infinite (510 total carries), 100

Fred Taylor, 106, 93

Danny Woodhead, 83, 68

LeGarrette Blount, 71, 49

Now, this all could just be a coincidence, and even if it's not, it doesn't necessarily mean the Patriots are guilty. However, it does beg the question, "why do the Patriots fumble at such a staggeringly low rate in comparison to the rest of the league?" For that there are multiple theories and no decided proof in either direction, but the circumstantial evidence does point towards there being a long-standing preference in New England with regard to how these balls are handled. It could be that the Patriots have always erred closer to the minimum threshold, which in turn prevented fumbles.

Then again, I don't agree with the notion that this is a small deal. If the Patriots have been doctoring footballs, that likely contributes very directly to minimizing turnovers, which contributes very directly to the win/loss column.

Did you get this from Sharpfootballanalysis? This has already been debunked several times.


http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/your-guide-to-deflate-gateballghazi-related-statistical-analyses/

 

[PcketknfNiels]

Pretty much on the level with most sports journalists.

The original report came from Mike Reiss, beat reporter at ESPN. His take is more succinct and frankly better anyway:

Why do I think this has been made to be a bigger deal than it is? I go back to the Vikings-Panthers game from November, with teams illegally heating footballs on the sideline and simply getting a warning from the NFL, and wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. I go back to the Chargers using an illegal sticky substance on towels in 2012 and getting fined $25,000, and likewise wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. Put the three situations together and only one requires a full-fledged investigation that will cost owners millions of dollars? In the interest of fairness, what am I missing?

Once again, E$PN flexing their muscle. If the Pats had been piping in crowd noise and the Falcons had been deflating balls, this entire thread would be talking about PA systems/directors/effects of noise on players during games.

 

[superjohn]

“Maybe those guys gotta study the rule book and figure it out. We obviously knew what we were doing and we made some pretty important plays."

You know who said that? Tom Brady. To the Ravens when they questioned the Pats 'ineligible receiver' plays in the playoffs. It's against the rules to alter the footballs Tom, study the rule book.

Karma is a b__ch.

 

[dogpause]

How long before McNally, the locker room attendant, and or Jastremski, aka The Deflator, decide to cash in and tell the whole story? My guess is that it won't be long.

 

[mauconnfan]

Then you better be checking every move every other team is making. You know for a fact that no other team is doing something to gain an advantage? Of course you because you are such an NFL expert.

And of course you yourself have never broken a rule...never exceeded the speed limit, never drove home having had one too many glasses of wine at dinner... But you are not a HOF'er so all of that does not apply.

Who else got caught? If my team gets caught I won't be looking for every Tom Dick and Harry writer with an article trying to say this is unfair and support your theories. It's humorous to see all the time you guys have to try to say he had nothing to do with this. I mean don't you honestly believe they have something very strong to throw those numbers out? He's guilty, admit it and move on. Geez

 

[RayRay19]

This whole thing is overblown....NFL loves it which is why they released the story now after the draft when everything slows back down...

 

[UChusky916]

If the league cared that much about those things, then why weren't the teams in my post directly above dealt with in the same manner? A $20,000 fine?

The patriots went to extensive measures to circumvent the rules and to deflate those footballs post-official's inspection . And then when investigated they lied and refused to cooperate. Add that to the fact that they were rightfully treated as repeat offenders from Spygate and there you have your formula for more severe punishment.

If Brady had cooperated right from the beginning and admitted that they intentionally deflate balls, I think you're looking at nothing more than 1 game suspension for Brady and a $250,000 fine for the Pats. Probably no draft picks. And the story would have blown over by now.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

How long before McNally, the locker room attendant, and or Jastremski, aka The Deflator, decide to cash in and tell the whole story? My guess is that it won't be long.

If they have family in the Hub, it could be a while. Snitches and scapegoats are treated roughly by Boston townies. Just ask Bill Bucker.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

The patriots went to extensive measures to circumvent the rules and to deflate those footballs post-official's inspection . And then when investigated they lied and refused to cooperate. Add that to the fact that they were rightfully treated as repeat offenders from Spygate and there you have your formula for more severe punishment.

If Brady had cooperated right from the beginning and admitted that they intentionally deflate balls, I think you're looking at nothing more than 1 game suspension for Brady and a $250,000 fine for the Pats. Probably no draft picks. And the story would have blown over by now.

Even a (brave) writer in the Boston Globe agrees, of course, the fans don't. If Brady fessed-up right from the beginning, he would have been slapped (fined) and no suspension or draft picks and this story would have died a while ago. Unfortunately, the Pats organization from top to bottom comes off as arrogant, spoiled, very good team that doesn't care what the rules are and what the world thinks of them. Thus the bullseye on their back.

http://www.boston.com/sports/column...e_has_reached.html?p1=feature_sec_hp#comments

 

[champs99and04]

Did you get this from Sharpfootballanalysis? This has already been debunked several times.


http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/your-guide-to-deflate-gateballghazi-related-statistical-analyses/

Nope, I got it straight from http://www.pro-football-reference.com/

 

[Husky25]

If Brady had cooperated right from the beginning and admitted that they intentionally deflate balls, I think you're looking at nothing more than 1 game suspension for Brady and a $250,000 fine for the Pats. Probably no draft picks. And the story would have blown over by now.

That's not true. Wells said that the League didn't take the allegations seriously. This who charade is 100% on the league. It could have blown over with a statement of, "We'll look into it." The NFL let it happen.

Then, because they went through this ridiculously overblown investigation, they had to place blame. The investigation was not independent, nor unbiased. Wells' only marching orders were, "Protect the Shield," which means no blame on the NFL or the Referees (Imagine the Integrity of the Game charges otherwise?). Obviously, the equipment managers were getting the ax, but they are small potatoes. Again, imagine if the NFL spent in excess of $1 million for a sham report only finding fault with a part time ball boy? That leaves Brady as the only party of consequence. The $1 million fine to the Patriots (ownership, GM, and coach of which were found to have zero knowledge of the goings-on) was only so the NFL could cover it's costs paid to Wells' law firm. Ironically, the Patriots make out in the deal because they get to withhold $2 million they would owe Brady for the 4 game suspension (that will never stand up. It's getting reduced to 2).

Be that as it may, had the NFL gotten out in front of it, this whole ordeal would have resulted in a small fine. Instead, they have egg on their face.

 

[TasteofUConn]

the Pats organization from top to bottom comes off as arrogant, spoiled, very good team

This is the strained chorus sung by fans of lesser teams to describe a dynastic power.

 

[Coach McGurk]

My "deflate-gate" take: Pats Punishment doesn't fit crime, but may fit previous one.
Disclaimer: Hate the pats; they crapped on the state of CT and UConn in late 90's when they lied about moving to Hartford
...Anyway, "people" including former PA gov Ed Rendell have been saying forever that Spygate was far more comprehensive than just taping a Jets walkthrough in 2007, but goes as far back as superbowl 38 (several Eagles claim the pats knew all of the audibles and made perfec...t adjustments in superbowl 39, 2005). Pats get caught Spygating, and NFL reviews the evidence. Discovers evidence of a far reaching taping regiment going back up to 4 years. NFL (this is a fact) destroys all evidence without letting anyone outside review it; punishes Pats for taping the jets practice only.
...I am thinking the NFL told the pats they dogged a HUGE bullet (so the NFL could protect the shield) and that they better not do ANYTHING like that EVER again or else....Thinking this was the "or else"

 

[mauconnfan]

This is the strained chorus sung by fans of lesser teams to describe a dynastic power.

Just curious about something having to do with your "dynasty" - wondering the score of the last game you won vs the Giants in the Super Bowl?

 

[Husky25]

If they have family in the Hub, it could be a while. Snitches and scapegoats are treated roughly by Boston townies. Just ask Bill Bucker.

Buckner's (don't forget the "n") tenure as a scapegoat lasted about a year and a half. As peoples' minds cleared and returned to normal, more and more blamed Calvin Schiraldi, Bob Stanley, and later, John McNamara in Game 7, than Buckner.

Buckner returned to Boston as a Red Sox player in 1990 and received a 4 minute standing ovation. He's been interviewed dozens of times and he's stated that his move to Idaho was not because he felt scapegoated. He was not an east coaster. If he had any ill-will towards his time in Boston he would not have named his real estate project, "Fenway Park."