Liz Cambage Disses the WNBA

[Waquoit]

So don't play in the WNBA already.

 

[JellyBean]

Nothing here answers the original question, how do foreign leagues pay player so much more? I suspect the answer is different for almost every foriegn league. I also suspect that teams paying mega salaries are make micro-profit, if any. Is there something the WNBA can learn from them? I would be shocked if the W hasn't studied this intensively.

Well the question has been answered, subsidized. And right on the money. Every foreign league is different in terms of payout to pay out to players. China. Russia, Germany, Israel, Spain and Turkey typically pay more vs say Poland or the Philippines.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

But ESPN doesn't broadcast their games, so fans don't get the chance to watch WNBA games. It's becoming clear that the NBA has no interest in aggressively marketing the WNBA product.

ESPN is a tramp. If they thought the money was there, they would show the games. We are probably the worst fanbase to objectively look at this issue. We love Women's Basketball in a way most places can't comprehend. That love isn't a national thing.

 

[BostonCanuck]

I'm guessing there's a widespread misconception that most WNBA players playing overseas during the real basketball season are making hundreds of thousands of dollars. The media always uses Taurasi's $1.5 million as an illustration, but that's undoubtedly the highest, and probably a major outlier. And also probably not even representative of her entire overseas career. I've seen "typical" WNBA overseas salaries quoted in the ballpark of $7,000-$13,000/month for 5-7 months, plus expenses. The numbers for USA players not on WNBA rosters were lower. The per-season extremes on those "WNBA player" numbers are $35,000-$91,000, which is probably a lot more realistic for the rank & file of the 63 WNBA players who play overseas.

It would be interesting if the WNBA were to remove the salary caps that have the league's very best players topping out at just over $100K for the season. Then I suspect it would morph towards something more like you're describing, with more money being "found" to play the superstars, but then the rank and file perhaps making less than they do now. Not sure most of the players would like that any better.

 

[lne001]

ESPN is a tramp. If they thought the money was there, they would show the games.

Your usage of the descriptor 'tramp' has me confused. If you are calling ESPN a whore because they are in pursuit of money, I would highly disagree.

 

[bballnut90]

It would be interesting if the WNBA were to remove the salary caps that have the league's very best players topping out at just over $100K for the season. Then I suspect it would morph towards something more like you're describing, with more money being "found" to play the superstars, but then the rank and file perhaps making less than they do now. Not sure most of the players would like that any better.

I think this would be the smart move. Doesn’t make sense to have 5-6 players on the same team with max contracts when there are really just 1-2 standouts. Let the stars make better money and get paid their comparative worth. You look at Angel, Diana, Parker, Cambage, etc and they’ve all taken time off from the W to rest. Pay your franchise players more and they’ll be more inclined to play.

And if Liz doesn’t want to play in the WNBA, she doesn’t have to. It’s far and away the best league and a great chance for her to develop herself into the best in the world, as well as establish her own legacy, but if she decides making $100k for 3 months isn’t worth it, that’s her choice. That said, it’s another reason why it’d make sense to increase the max contract amount so the WNBA would be able to keep players like in the league every year.

 

[noirwestern]

I'm still stuck on this part, I worry about my body, my mind and my soul. I really don't get paid enough to be beaten up every game. I'm not a WWE wrestler and that's how it feels sometimes out on the court." when she's the one who is going to injure someone else with her style of play.

 

[Carnac]

Nor do you have a league without the owners.




And their primary principle in making money is not to throw their investments down a dark hole, but rather find more lucrative opportunities. There is absolutely no reason I can see for anyone to subsidize and prop up the WNBA.

Question - How does an owner make a small fortune in the WNBA?
Answer - Start with a large fortune.
(apologies to the restaurant business)

So what do you suggest?

 

[psconn]

I'm still stuck on this part, I worry about my body, my mind and my soul. I really don't get paid enough to be beaten up every game. I'm not a WWE wrestler and that's how it feels sometimes out on the court." when she's the one who is going to injure someone else with her style of play.

Liz apparently wants to deal out the punishment without being subjected to it herself. She's been suspended in the relatively recent past for her unnecessary physicality when she delivered an intentional knee into the back of Mistie Basses leg. "A bit of a corky".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.he...s/news-story/b1326816e81d86373d3f03ce90f156ce

 

[eebmg]

Well, she picked a nice time to vent. With Dallas hanging by a thread to get into the Playoffs. Does her rant mean she will sit out the last games and personally help the Wings over the cliff?

 

[lne001]

So what do you suggest?

Only that the players quit whining and get real. If they have better opportunities in the world then they should pursue them. Going on strike is another option, if they have the nerve.

I've always believed in the dictum that you are only worth what someone will pay you.

 

[Roger G]

Well for one thing, the marketing in the WNBA misses the point all the time. Instead of advertising their product, the advertise everything except the product: "watch me work" (so what - lots of others work hard), "we're women" (ah, we could tell), "we support all these other causes" (and the causes you choose annoy a significant portion of the population). Not once have I EVER heard the WNBA advertise the entertainment value of watching their version of basketball (which actually is the reason I watch it).
Since the poobahs of the league don't know what they are selling, they are unlikely to ever be successful.

So, so true. I feel exactly the same way. It's entertaining for me, so I watch it. Their leadership is clueless.

 

[Roger G]

Why don't all of us who enjoy the WNBA commit to giving half our paychecks (or SS checks) to the WNBA so that they can pay all their players 6 figure salaries? No? Bad idea? That's the problem with subsidies, in the end the public ends up paying for them one way or another, higher prices or higher taxes. It makes more sense to dump the salary caps and let everyone compete for players. The salary caps are there for the benefit of the owners and the league, not the players.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Your usage of the descriptor 'tramp' has me confused. If you are calling ESPN a whore because they are in pursuit of money, I would highly disagree.

I don't think is a bad thing. It is a business. But that was my point, if a company good at making money thought showing more WNBA games would increase revenue.......they would. The fact they don't is telling.

 

[shizam]

I don't think is a bad thing. It is a business. But that was my point, if a company good at making money thought showing more WNBA games would increase revenue..they would. The fact they don't is telling.

Exactly. A few years ago ESPN was at David Stern's throat because the W wasn't worth showing and nobody was watching. Stern wouldn't let them cut the number of games. It was dead programming and a ratings desert. At least now it's showing signs of life.

 

[shizam]

Why don't all of us who enjoy the WNBA commit to giving half our paychecks (or SS checks) to the WNBA so that they can pay all their players 6 figure salaries? No? Bad idea? That's the problem with subsidies, in the end the public ends up paying for them one way or another, higher prices or higher taxes. It makes more sense to dump the salary caps and let everyone compete for players. The salary caps are there for the benefit of the owners and the league, not the players.

I enjoy the WNBA but the play sometimes is still bad. Too many bricks and airballs for most fans though I enjoy the game for what it is. The Fever scored 2 points TOTAL in the 4th quarter today vs Mystics. Not one field goal. Also, the attendance in Indy showed 7,500. It looked like a ghost town on TV. Was everyone in the upper deck? Four teams out of twelve get numbers though hopefully Aces can use today's 7.000+ crowd as a springboard. They had a streak of below 5,000 for a while until recently.
Very good markets
Minn, Seattle, LA, Phoenix
Ok markets
CT, Wash, Indiana, Vegas?, Chicago
Poor markets
Atl, Dallas, NY (since the move)

 

[Dillon77]

Exactly. A few years ago ESPN was at David Stern's throat because the W wasn't worth showing and nobody was watching. Stern wouldn't let them cut the number of games. It was dead programming and a ratings desert. At least now it's showing signs of life.

Speaking of "desert" --- ESPN would rather build a franchise around the various NBA summer leagues (one of which is in Las Vegas) and run those during prime time. Obviously, the viewership for that is there....

 

[CocoHusky]

Amen! I always thought that was a terrible slogan. People watch the games to see tremendous athletes PLAY!! They want to get away from "work." Work is boring! They want to see Diana Taurasi be spectacular! They want to see Liz Cambage be dominant! They want to see Tina Charles score with four defenders hanging on her! (Basically every point she scores). They want to see the great UConn players show what they can do among the best of the best! Terrible slogan. Agreed.

The slogan is/was fine. Regardless of the professional sport, spectators are there to watch athletes "work". I don't particularly like Liz Cambage and I'm not sure why she is being so salty or why she came back to WNBA in the first place. If she have better playing opportunities then Duces!

 

[Kevin G]

The first 2 things that come to my mind are:

1) What is the attendance of oversea leagues versus WNBA attendance?
2) Cost? All the costs associated with having a professional team...overseas versus WNBA

 

[JellyBean]

The first 2 things that come to my mind are:

1) What is the attendance of oversea leagues versus WNBA attendance?
2) Cost? All the costs associated with having a professional team...overseas versus WNBA

I had the pleasure of watching a German professional women's basketball league back in the early part of the 90s; probably around 1992-93 range. The Wuppertal Wings. Attendance was similar to a high school basketball game. The gym was small. I would be shocked if somebody said that there were 500 people in attendance during some of those games. But I would bet that your more star studded teams would have a bigger following than your average team from say a small town in West Poland.

 

[Lawrence]

In perhaps the most revealing comments about how the WNBA is a poor league for its players, Liz Cambage, the league's leading scorer and a true superstar, dissed the WNBA and stated that she won't play for it long-term:

"Whether Cambage returns to the WNBA next year or not, she says the WNBA is not a league she plans on playing in long term. All season, Cambage has been vocal about the issues of concern for WNBA players including travel conditions, on-court play and pay disparity.

"For Cambage, the price and physical toll of a WNBA season is potentially not worth the return.

"I've said this many times: [The WNBA] doesn't pay my bills ... playing here doesn't pay my bills," Cambage said. "We make more money overseas. I'm ready to have next summer off and focus on getting a European contract where its 10 seasons here worth the pay.

"It sucks because I love to be here, I love to put the game out there, I love what comes with playing here. But at the end of the day, for my longevity, I worry about my body, my mind and my soul. I really don't get paid enough to be beaten up every game. I'm not a WWE wrestler and that's how it feels sometimes out on the court."

Wings' Cambage: May not return to WNBA in '19

This is what players have been saying all summer long. Clearly, something is seriously wrong with the WNBA if its top players are saying that it's not worth the lousy pay and the danger of injury, and that time off from their real gigs in Europe or elsewhere is more important than playing in the U.S. This is in line with the comments of UConn superstar Diana Taurasi, who said that she was playing in the WNBA basically to get health insurance coverage.

The big question is why overseas leagues from China and Korea to Russia and Turkey, and the European leagues in between can attract American players and pay them well- and thrive as leagues- but this step-child of the NBA can't be bothered to make it a real option for top players?

Liz is making a great point. The WNBA does not have an effective marketing strategy and that shows tremendously with attendance figures and TV coverage. If you listen to the ESPN discussion shows, women's basketball is hardly discussed. If you don't market your sport effectively, you will not spark interest and sell tickets...

 

[Geew1992]

Man.............I wish I could make $100,000 for 3 months doing something I love to do.

 

[DishNSwish]

No Cookies | The Advertiser


See a pattern anybody???

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Here are tidbits about revenues in the EuroLeague:

EuroLeague revenues go up after successful season - TalkBasket.net

"EuroLeague revenues go up after successful season"

"The first EuroLeague season under the new league format was successful on the court and it was also a success off it, as well. The revenues of all clubs has doubled to a total of €30million, EuroLeague CEO Jordi Bertomeu confirmed. The joint venture between the EuroLeague and IMG provided an important rise of revenues and the decade long project of the league is on the right path. As a result of the venture, the television revenues went up. The big winners from the new deals are the clubs from Spain, Greece. Maccabi FOX Tel Aviv were the big winners though where the price of the television rights had a 200 percent rise compared to last season."

 

[j66kicker]

Here are tidbits about revenues in the EuroLeague:

EuroLeague revenues go up after successful season - TalkBasket.net

"EuroLeague revenues go up after successful season"

"The first EuroLeague season under the new league format was successful on the court and it was also a success off it, as well. The revenues of all clubs has doubled to a total of €30million, EuroLeague CEO Jordi Bertomeu confirmed. The joint venture between the EuroLeague and IMG provided an important rise of revenues and the decade long project of the league is on the right path. As a result of the venture, the television revenues went up. The big winners from the new deals are the clubs from Spain, Greece. Maccabi FOX Tel Aviv were the big winners though where the price of the television rights had a 200 percent rise compared to last season."

Going from memory, the WNBA’s total salaries are about $11.5 million and this is 21.5% of the WNBA’s ticket revenue. So their total ticket revenue would be $53.5 million.

€30 million = $34 million. If this is the “total revenues of all clubs” then one could infer that is below even just the ticket revenue of the WNBA. Lots of unknowns here, and I don’t know how many teams the Euroleague has, but at first blush it appears they’re not exactly rolling in dough.

 

[cordarone]

Euroleague Basketball, which Bertomeu heads, is a private company that runs the Men's competition. FIBA runs the whole show for the women.

 

[Monte]

The players should start a "League of their Own."

 

[Carnac]

Liz is making a great point. The WNBA does not have an effective marketing strategy and that shows tremendously with attendance figures and TV coverage. If you listen to the ESPN discussion shows, women's basketball is hardly discussed. If you don't market your sport effectively, you will not spark interest and sell tickets...

One last observation of Liz Cambage. Some of the things she's said were not received well. To some, she came off as boorish, sarcastic and selfish. Qualities that will not blend at all with play in the W. Off the court, she says they she is a complete "sweet heart", and in her mind she's a good teammate. We must remember that she is not from the US. Growing up in Australia, she has a different outlook and values than players grown in the US. She has spent the last 5 years playing in the Euro Leagues, and was happy.

She was recruited heavily to come back and play in the W by Fred Williams and the Wings. She has viewed and experienced playing professional basketball through a completely different lens than US fans or players do. I'm not excusing her detrimental behavior of late. That is unacceptable. I'm just saying that I can understand her falling out of love with the W, and longing to return home, and the Euro Leagues, where the money is infinitely better, and the play is not as rough.

Aug 16, 2018 - An article from SBNation - Liz Cambage tells us 5 ways the WNBA is failing its players.

“This season is crazy, I think it’s like 34 games in 90 days,” Cambage said. “This is our third back-to-back. If you want the best out of us, you can’t treat us like that. If you want this game to be at the top level, you have to treat your players like they’re top level.”

 

[j66kicker]

One last observation of Liz Cambage. Some of the things she's said were not received well. To some, she came off as boorish, sarcastic and selfish. Qualities that will not blend at all with play in the W. Off the court, she says they she is a complete "sweet heart", and in her mind she's a good teammate. We must remember that she is not from the US. Growing up in Australia, she has a different outlook and values than players grown in the US. She has spent the last 5 years playing in the Euro Leagues, and was happy.

She was recruited heavily to come back and play in the W by Fred Williams and the Wings. She has viewed and experienced playing professional basketball through a completely different lens than US players do. I'm not excusing her detrimental behavior of late. That is unacceptable. I'm just saying that I can understand her falling out of love with the W, and longing to return home, and the Euro Leagues.

Her behavior has at times been unacceptable in Australia too, including getting kicked off their Olympic team.

 

[WLT1717]

That is anecdotal evidence. But so many other leagues and teams are not owned by Russian billionaires. The French league is apparently strong and profitable. The Korean and Chinese leagues are thriving. Turkey has been a major destination for top American players. They can't all be operating for "local pride." So many leagues, such good pay, and they aren't folding.

Something is wrong with the WNBA, and I suspect it can be found with the men who control the parent company- the NBA....

Rather than with the women who run, and have run, the WNBA?