Liz Cambage Disses the WNBA

[Fairfield Fan]

One last observation of Liz Cambage. Some of the things she's said were not received well. To some, she came off as boorish, sarcastic and selfish. Qualities that will not blend at all with play in the W. Off the court, she says they she is a complete "sweet heart", and in her mind she's a good teammate. We must remember that she is not from the US. Growing up in Australia, she has a different outlook and values than players grown in the US. She has spent the last 5 years playing in the Euro Leagues, and was happy.

She was recruited heavily to come back and play in the W by Fred Williams and the Wings. She has viewed and experienced playing professional basketball through a completely different lens than US fans or players do. I'm not excusing her detrimental behavior of late. That is unacceptable. I'm just saying that I can understand her falling out of love with the W, and longing to return home, and the Euro Leagues, where the money is infinitely better, and the play is not as rough.

Perhaps so. But she is arguably the best player in the WNBA today. And if the top scorer in the league is telling the public that her pay is crappy and that it is minuscule compared with what she earns overseas, then that point alone needs to be dealt with. Further, it's not just Cambage. What she said is being repeated by lots of other WNBA players. There seems to be a wide and growing dissatisfaction with their pay and conditions. Someone pointed out in the press that the game that the Las Vegas Aces refused to play in Washington after more than 24 hours of travel is specifically forbidden by collective bargaining agreement in the NBA. So male players would not have been required to play that game.

So much that we don't know. But I have a hunch that push is about to come to shove in the WNBA. And I'm guessing that our UConn alumnae will be the leaders of a major confrontation and the reforms that will follow.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Going from memory, the WNBA’s total salaries are about $11.5 million and this is 21.5% of the WNBA’s ticket revenue. So their total ticket revenue would be $53.5 million.

€30 million = $34 million. If this is the “total revenues of all clubs” then one could infer that is below even just the ticket revenue of the WNBA. Lots of unknowns here, and I don’t know how many teams the Euroleague has, but at first blush it appears they’re not exactly rolling in dough.

You could be right. I'm trying hard to find numbers, but it's a hard slog.

 

[DishNSwish]

Perhaps so. But she is arguably the best player in the WNBA today. And if the top scorer in the league is telling the public that her pay is crappy and that it is minuscule compared with what she earns overseas, then that point alone needs to be dealt with. Further, it's not just Cambage. What she said is being repeated by lots of other WNBA players. There seems to be a wide and growing dissatisfaction with their pay and conditions. Someone pointed out in the press that the game that the Las Vegas Aces refused to play in Washington after more than 24 hours of travel is specifically forbidden by collective bargaining agreement in the NBA. So male players would not have been required to play that game.

So much that we don't know. But I have a hunch that push is about to come to shove in the WNBA. And I'm guessing that our UConn alumnae will be the leaders of a major confrontation and the reforms that will follow.

I can't read this stuff anymore.

Read the Australian article I posted. When in China, the play was too rough, the food and conditions were bad, etc etc. She complained just as much about playing there as here. See a pattern?

Liz seems more interested in playing for money and no other reason. Which is fine; she's also not American, so playing here isn't necessary or as important for her.

Oh, unless of course she wants to challenge herself, try to become a better player and play against the best talent in the world in one place. That doesn't seem to motivate her.

IMO, it a slap in the face of Staley, Cooper, Swoopes, Catchings and everyone else that busted their asses to make a league here to have a player who takes four years off in between seasons so she can get off a rookie contract before coming back, then instead of focusing on making the playoffs as her team freefalls gives interview after interview complaining about the hand that feeds her. How difficult would it have been to answer a question with, "Right now I'm focused on making the playoffs, we'll talk about everything else after the season."

Nooooo, Liz says instead I may not be back next year. What kind of teammate is that?

Wonderful talent, but far from the best player in the league. It takes more than just skill to be a superstar. Give me Breanna Stewart, Candace Parker, Maya Moore, and even her own teammate Skyler Diggins-Smith who seem to get it and play for more than just monetary reasons.

 

[baggerbob]

I can't read this stuff anymore.

Read the Australian article I posted. When in China, the play was too rough, the food and conditions were bad, etc etc. She complained just as much about playing there as here. See a pattern?

Liz seems more interested in playing for money and no other reason. Which is fine; she's also not American, so playing here isn't necessary or as important for her.

Oh, unless of course she wants to challenge herself, try to become a better player and play against the best talent in the world in one place. That doesn't seem to motivate her.

IMO, it a slap in the face of Staley, Cooper, Swoopes, Catchings and everyone else that busted their asses to make a league here to have a player who takes four years off in between seasons so she can get off a rookie contract before coming back, then instead of focusing on making the playoffs as her team freefalls gives interview after interview complaining about the hand that feeds her. How difficult would it have been to answer a question with, "Right now I'm focused on making the playoffs, we'll talk about everything else after the season."

Nooooo, Liz says instead I may not be back next year. What kind of teammate is that?

Wonderful talent, but far from the best player in the league. It takes more than just skill to be a superstar. Give me Breanna Stewart, Candace Parker, Maya Moore, and even her own teammate Skyler Diggins-Smith who seem to get it and play for more than just monetary reasons.

Dallas is one of the worst defensive teams in the league, and Liz is a major part of that. If you notice as Liz has scored more,, the team has gone into a free fall.

 

[Geew1992]

Dallas is one of the worst defensive teams in the league, and Liz is a major part of that. If you notice as Liz has scored more,, the team has gone into a free fall.

WHEN Cambage gets back on defense, she is a stopper. That is a big WHEN though

 

[BobbyJ]

So go back and play in the Australian Rec League or whatever they call it where they won't pick on you.

 

[tazmaz]

She’s just honest. Do I like her? Heck no but give her credit for giving it a shot. Would you play each year with her viewpoint for 1/10 of the salary you could play for somewhere else? Why risk injury? I’m surprised so many US players do but I’m glad they do. No one is forcing them. Their choice. Another benefit some say is playing in W gets them better contracts overseas.

 

[tazmaz]

I think this would be the smart move. Doesn’t make sense to have 5-6 players on the same team with max contracts when there are really just 1-2 standouts. Let the stars make better money and get paid their comparative worth. You look at Angel, Diana, Parker, Cambage, etc and they’ve all taken time off from the W to rest. Pay your franchise players more and they’ll be more inclined to play.

And if Liz doesn’t want to play in the WNBA, she doesn’t have to. It’s far and away the best league and a great chance for her to develop herself into the best in the world, as well as establish her own legacy, but if she decides making $100k for 3 months isn’t worth it, that’s her choice. That said, it’s another reason why it’d make sense to increase the max contract amount so the WNBA would be able to keep players like in the league every year.

For a player like Cambage increasing to $150K from $108K isn’t going to make a difference

 

[Fairfield Fan]

I can't read this stuff anymore.

Read the Australian article I posted. When in China, the play was too rough, the food and conditions were bad, etc etc. She complained just as much about playing there as here. See a pattern?

Liz seems more interested in playing for money and no other reason. Which is fine; she's also not American, so playing here isn't necessary or as important for her.

Oh, unless of course she wants to challenge herself, try to become a better player and play against the best talent in the world in one place. That doesn't seem to motivate her.

IMO, it a slap in the face of Staley, Cooper, Swoopes, Catchings and everyone else that busted their asses to make a league here to have a player who takes four years off in between seasons so she can get off a rookie contract before coming back, then instead of focusing on making the playoffs as her team freefalls gives interview after interview complaining about the hand that feeds her. How difficult would it have been to answer a question with, "Right now I'm focused on making the playoffs, we'll talk about everything else after the season."

Nooooo, Liz says instead I may not be back next year. What kind of teammate is that?

Wonderful talent, but far from the best player in the league. It takes more than just skill to be a superstar. Give me Breanna Stewart, Candace Parker, Maya Moore, and even her own teammate Skyler Diggins-Smith who seem to get it and play for more than just monetary reasons.

I read the article. She was a 21 year-old kid, equivalent to a junior in college, who was in a strange country for the first time and trying to understand her surroundings. As a guy who was a Peace Corps volunteer in Asia when I was a little older than she was, I completely understand. It's a real struggle with language, with culture, with trying to live in surroundings that are totally unknown to you. Her comments are completely understandable.

But now she is- what?- 27 years old. A much more mature young woman, not a kid. And she has grasped a lot of the elements of her industry and its finances. She is nearing the downside of her athletic career, and she is rationally considering money, wear-and-tear on her body, the danger of career-ending injury. She gets it. And let's be clear that this athlete, the leading scorer in a league that features sixteen UConn alumnae, is giving voice to what many others are contending

 

[CocoHusky]

I can't read this stuff anymore.

Read the Australian article I posted. When in China, the play was too rough, the food and conditions were bad, etc etc. She complained just as much about playing there as here. See a pattern?

Liz seems more interested in playing for money and no other reason. Which is fine; she's also not American, so playing here isn't necessary or as important for her.

Oh, unless of course she wants to challenge herself, try to become a better player and play against the best talent in the world in one place. That doesn't seem to motivate her.

IMO, it a slap in the face of Staley, Cooper, Swoopes, Catchings and everyone else that busted their asses to make a league here to have a player who takes four years off in between seasons so she can get off a rookie contract before coming back, then instead of focusing on making the playoffs as her team freefalls gives interview after interview complaining about the hand that feeds her. How difficult would it have been to answer a question with, "Right now I'm focused on making the playoffs, we'll talk about everything else after the season."

Nooooo, Liz says instead I may not be back next year. What kind of teammate is that?

Wonderful talent, but far from the best player in the league. It takes more than just skill to be a superstar. Give me Breanna Stewart, Candace Parker, Maya Moore, and even her own teammate Skyler Diggins-Smith who seem to get it and play for more than just monetary reasons.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Aug 16, 2018 - An article from SBNation - Liz Cambage tells us 5 ways the WNBA is failing its players.

Wow!! Amazing article! And far better than the PR for management article that Michelle Voepel spewed out. This is really telling:

"This season, with the World Cup set to begin on Sept. 22, the WNBA was forced to pack the same 34 games it always plays into two fewer weeks. For Cambage’s Dallas Wings team, that’s meant playing 34 games in 93 days. The toughest stretch: a four-game in seven-night cross-country grind from New York on a Sunday, home in Texas on Tuesday, at Los Angeles Thursday, and at Seattle on Saturday.

“If you want this game to be at the top level, you have to treat your players like they’re top level.”
“You see how many ACL injuries have happened this season?” Cambage asked me. “That comes from fatigue. Injuries come from fatigue, especially injuries like that, and it’s proven.”

Exactly. The Aces were right not to risk career-ending ACL injury by playing fatigued.

I"m guessing that the players will opt out of their agreement on November 1. It's coming!

 

[CocoHusky]

I read the article. She was a 21 year-old kid, equivalent to a junior in college, who was in a strange country for the first time and trying to understand her surroundings. As a guy who was a Peace Corps volunteer in Asia when I was a little older than she was, I completely understand. It's a real struggle with language, with culture, with trying to live in surroundings that are totally unknown to you. Her comments are completely understandable.
But now she is- what?- 27 years old. A much more mature young woman, not a kid. And she has grasped a lot of the elements of her industry and its finances. She is nearing the downside of her athletic career, and she is rationally considering money, wear-and-tear on her body, the danger of career-ending injury. She gets it. And let's be clear that this athlete, the leading scorer in a league that features sixteen UConn alumnae, is giving voice to what many others are contending

Liz's comments then and now reflect those of a malcontent. Nobody dragged her to China. Nobody dragged her back to the WNBA. Plenty of people (me included) will gladly drag her to her next destination though.

 

[Shmermerer]

I actually love Cambage. Her personality has been huge for the WNBA whether you think it's good or bad. I also think she should be able to do whatever she wants and what's best for her. Taking summer off to heal or be with friends isn't a bad thing. There really isn't much shelf life in a basketball career. Also, I can think of one family that did it their way and we're bashed for it and look how amazing their careers turned out. Venus and Serena played tournaments sparingly and played on the tour minimally with a lot of criticism. I'm pro Cambage on this one.

 

[cordarone]

You could be right. I'm trying hard to find numbers, but it's a hard slog.

Maybe, just maybe it's hard to find because there's little or no revenue to speak of?
If I wasn't clear yesterday, that 30M euro figure in your article was what the men made. That's orders of magnitude less than what the NBA makes. Why would the situation be any different for the women's teams in Europe?
I would posit that these teams are subsidized by their parent athletic clubs/football teams/ patron oligarchs in the same way most of the Euro men's Bball teams are.

 

[CocoHusky]

I"m guessing that the players will opt out of their agreement on November 1. It's coming!

The WNBA collective bargaining agreement runs through 2021, either side (players or owners) can opt out in 2019 at the earliest.

 

[lne001]

I"m guessing that the players will opt out of their agreement on November 1. It's coming!

Good. And what are you expecting to be the outcome of that decision?

 

[CocoHusky]

I actually love Cambage. Her personality has been huge for the WNBA whether you think it's good or bad. I also think she should be able to do whatever she wants and what's best for her. Taking summer off to heal or be with friends isn't a bad thing. There really isn't much shelf life in a basketball career. Also, I can think of one family that did it their way and we're bashed for it and look how amazing their careers turned out. Venus and Serena played tournaments sparingly and played on the tour minimally with a lot of criticism. I'm pro Cambage on this one.

The WNBA is not indentured servitude. Liz's is free to do exactly as you suggests-"what is best for her". DT also took a season off from the WNBA.

 

[WLT1717]

Wow!! Amazing article! And far better than the PR for management article that Michelle Voepel spewed out. This is really telling:

"This season, with the World Cup set to begin on Sept. 22, the WNBA was forced to pack the same 34 games it always plays into two fewer weeks. For Cambage’s Dallas Wings team, that’s meant playing 34 games in 93 days. The toughest stretch: a four-game in seven-night cross-country grind from New York on a Sunday, home in Texas on Tuesday, at Los Angeles Thursday, and at Seattle on Saturday.

“If you want this game to be at the top level, you have to treat your players like they’re top level.”
“You see how many ACL injuries have happened this season?” Cambage asked me. “That comes from fatigue. Injuries come from fatigue, especially injuries like that, and it’s proven.”

Exactly. The Aces were right not to risk career-ending ACL injury by playing fatigued.

I"m guessing that the players will opt out of their agreement on November 1. It's coming!

The Aces were not “right” in blowing off a game and the Mystics organization and fans; players were not exposed to injury; they opted not to compete under difficult circumstances - possibly even out of pique - where many of their peers would have played through. Please, rather than simply resort to “should” do this and that because in your opinion - lacking any empirical support whatsoever - W players deserve more than they are getting under the deal their union negotiated. I tend to think the players negotiated that deal, and the relatively lower overall salaries that resulted therefrom - because they were making a thoughtful long-term investment in the infrastructure of the league and the well-being of the overall player cohort. If you want more invested in marketing of the league and promotional efforts, that appears to be what the players have done. The W is owed nothing. It needs to generate interest, gate, viewers, afterwhich everything else follows. Until then . . .

 

[Fairfield Fan]

The WNBA collective bargaining agreement runs through 2021, either side (players or owners) can opt out in 2019 at the earliest.

According to the Cambage article, "The Players Association and the league have a Nov. 1 opt out date for their current Collective Bargaining Agreement that many on the player’s side believe to be unfair. The opt out would take effect after the 2019 season."

In other words, they can declare that the players are opting out on November 1, and the actual abrogation of that agreement would take place after the 2019 season. If they declare they're opting out, negotiations would begin right then. I doubt that the WNBA management, i.e., the guys running the NBA, would want this hanging over their heads going into the upcoming season.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

The Aces were not “right” in blowing off a game and the Mystics organization and fans; players were not exposed to injury; they opted not to compete under difficult circumstances - possibly even out of pique - where many of their peers would have played through. Please, rather than simply resort to “should” do this and that because in your opinion - lacking any empirical support whatsoever - W players deserve more than they are getting under the deal their union negotiated. I tend to think the players negotiated that deal, and the relatively lower overall salaries that resulted therefrom - because they were making a thoughtful long-term investment in the infrastructure of the league and the well-being of the overall player cohort. If you want more invested in marketing of the league and promotional efforts, that appears to be what the players have done. The W is owed nothing. It needs to generate interest, gate, viewers, afterwhich everything else follows. Until then . . .

No NBA player would have been required to play that game. It is in their contract that they specifically would not play it. So why is it wrong for the women to ask for the same conditions that the men enjoy? Is it that they're "just women," so they don't get the same level of consideration?

A little gender equality, please?

 

[Fairfield Fan]

The WNBA is not indentured servitude. Liz's is free to do exactly as you suggests-"what is best for her". DT also took a season off from the WNBA.

Yep, and if its top players increasingly blow off the WNBA, then what happens to the pro league in the U.S.? Most of the best American soccer players go to Europe, and don't bother with pro soccer in the U.S. Should the best players in the U.S. abandon playing here? Is that what management wants?

If not, then management have some major changes to make. Read that entire article and Cambage's suggestions and criticisms, and one sees that she has a lot of rational arguments.

November 1 will be a momentous day.

Wonder what the current UConn players will say about it? Wonder how the UConn alumnae will vote? I'm guessing that every single one of the alumnae will vote to opt out.

 

[WLT1717]

According to the Cambage article, "The Players Association and the league have a Nov. 1 opt out date for their current Collective Bargaining Agreement that many on the player’s side believe to be unfair. The opt out would take effect after the 2019 season."

In other words, they can declare that the players are opting out on November 1, and the actual abrogation of that agreement would take place after the 2019 season. If they declare they're opting out, negotiations would begin right then. I doubt that the WNBA management, i.e., the guys running the NBA, would want this hanging over their heads going into the upcoming season.

“guys running the NBA” Hello? You continue to make this an NBA, men issue. It is not. The W is led by amazing women, one of whom I practiced law with personally for years, aka Lisa Borders. They are doing what they think makes sense working with the players reps. It may not be perfect but this is not about NBA men devaluaing W players.

 

[lne001]

No NBA player would have been required to play that game. It is in their contract that they specifically would not play it. So why is it wrong for the women to ask for the same conditions that the men enjoy? Is it that they're "just women," so they don't get the same level of consideration?

A little gender equality, please?

In the 1980s the NBA would have definitely played that game, and did.

They don't get that consideration today because no one wants to watch them thus no one is willing to pay the league and teams enough to afford it.

Gender equality is a myth.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Cambage - “That comes from fatigue. Injuries come from fatigue, especially injuries like that, and it’s proven.”

Is it? I thought ACL injuries were primarily because women's knees are more susceptible to injury. What does she want anyway. One game a month. The W has a wuss schedule anyway. If players are fatigued from playing year round - that's on them. They could have chosen a different profession.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I seriously wonder if the players walked away from the negotiating table and there was a lockout, would the WNBA ever recover, or would the league fold at that point? Labor agreement issues and strike shortened seasons have definitely hurt men's professional sports in the short term. It seems like the WNBA is already on insecure enough footing that they might not be able to survive something like this.

 

[j66kicker]

Yep, and if its top players increasingly blow off the WNBA, then what happens to the pro league in the U.S.? Most of the best American soccer players go to Europe, and don't bother with pro soccer in the U.S. Should the best players in the U.S. abandon playing here? Is that what management wants?

If not, then management have some major changes to make. Read that entire article and Cambage's suggestions and criticisms, and one sees that she has a lot of rational arguments.

November 1 will be a momentous day.

Wonder what the current UConn players will say about it? Wonder how the UConn alumnae will vote? I'm guessing that every single one of the alumnae will vote to opt out.

Well they better be careful what they ask for. An ultimatum of, “We get this or we don’t play” could easily result in the “don’t play” option.

I personally suspect any renegotiation of their CBA - whenever that happens - will be more collaborative, with the players, for the most part, understanding what’s realistic when nobody comes to see you play.

 

[WLT1717]

No NBA player would have been required to play that game. It is in their contract that they specifically would not play it. So why is it wrong for the women to ask for the same conditions that the men enjoy? Is it that they're "just women," so they don't get the same level of consideration?

A little gender equality, please?

Your reasoning is so incoherent I can’t keep up with it. The players are in the WNBA. The W players union, made up of women, negotiated a deal, ie, gender equality. The league, and its teams, generally lack the revenue to travel by charter - ergo every team is susceptible to the kinds of travel nightmares that come with flying Commerical. In every other instance of hardship in the history of the W teams have persevered and played their games. The Aces chose not to. They have borne the consequences.

 

[bballnut90]

I seriously wonder if the players walked away from the negotiating table and there was a lockout, would the WNBA ever recover, or would the league fold at that point? Labor agreement issues and strike shortened seasons have definitely hurt men's professional sports in the short term. It seems like the WNBA is already on insecure enough footing that they might not be able to survive something like this.

Agreed...I really don't think the owners have much to lose if players go on strike, where in the NBA the owners have heaps of millions to lose. I can't imagine that many teams are that profitable with the mediocre attendance and free tickets given out to boost attendance. Unless players are on a rookie contract, most of these players make between 90-115k for 4 months out of the year, and almost all of these players are in their mid 20s to early 30s. Not to mention they have a college degree with zero debt. Compare that to the average college grad who makes $40k out of school and has $50k in student loans. These players are making good money. Plus many of the players who've been vocal make big bucks overseas (Taurasi, McBride, Cambage), should be able to live off their basketball earnings the rest of their life provided they don't blow through their money. Look at almost any other women's sport and see how much players make...it's a fraction of what players in the W make. The players have a lot more to lose than the owners if they were to go on strike.

 

[Shades]

No NBA player would have been required to play that game. It is in their contract that they specifically would not play it. So why is it wrong for the women to ask for the same conditions that the men enjoy? Is it that they're "just women," so they don't get the same level of consideration?

A little gender equality, please?

If you think it’s about gender equality, I guess that has to start with the consumer. Why aren’t they gobbling up the product?

 

[Fairfield Fan]

“guys running the NBA” Hello? You continue to make this an NBA, men issue. It is not. The W is led by amazing women, one of whom I practiced law with personally for years, aka Lisa Borders. They are doing what they think makes sense working with the players reps. It may not be perfect but this is not about NBA men devaluaing W players.

Let's see. Doesn't the organization that owns the NY Knicks also own the Liberty? Didn't the NBA establish the WNBA? I've read references to subsidies from the NBA to the WNBA. Are we sure that the NBA doesn't exercise significant influence over the WNBA?