Liz Cambage Disses the WNBA

[Alydar]

SUBSIDIES. Something the NBA (and the American psyche) cannot abide.

See for example the following link.

Barker: For WNBA players, the real money is overseas


Why are overseas teams able to pay women’s basketball players so much more than they are paid here? There are a variety of reasons, according to Allison Galer, who represents eight WNBA players and a handful of non-WNBA players overseas.

Some teams, like most of the teams in Russia, are funded by the municipal governments to serve as a source of local pride. Others, like those in Turkey, are attached to very lucrative men’s soccer clubs.

People want the NBA to subsidize WNBA salaries to the point of being competitive with the men? Should MLB subsidize woemn's pro softball? Should the PGA subsidize the LPGA? The "subsides" in the rest of the world come from the government. It's called socialism, a dirty word in the US.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Well for one thing, the marketing in the WNBA misses the point all the time. Instead of advertising their product, the advertise everything except the product: "watch me work" (so what - lots of others work hard), "we're women" (ah, we could tell), "we support all these other causes" (and the causes you choose annoy a significant portion of the population). Not once have I EVER heard the WNBA advertise the entertainment value of watching their version of basketball (which actually is the reason I watch it).
Since the poobahs of the league don't know what they are selling, they are unlikely to ever be successful.

Amen! I always thought that was a terrible slogan. People watch the games to see tremendous athletes PLAY!! They want to get away from "work." Work is boring! They want to see Diana Taurasi be spectacular! They want to see Liz Cambage be dominant! They want to see Tina Charles score with four defenders hanging on her! (Basically every point she scores). They want to see the great UConn players show what they can do among the best of the best!

Terrible slogan. Agreed.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

I'm not at all sure these overseas teams pay their local players "excellent salaries." I believe the WNBA players on many of those teams (presumably who make between $35K and $91K overseas, other than the small handful of bona fide international superstars), make a lot more than their local counterparts.

Cambage was talking about 15X her WNBA salary playing abroad.

 

[j66kicker]

Cambage was talking about 15X her WNBA salary playing abroad.

Cambage is a 6’8” beast and potential MVP candidate, not a “typical” WNBA player. She also may be exaggerating.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

To try and understand the over seas salaries you have to start by erasing the US model from your mind.

Teams are not expected to be in the black, I suspect. They advertise things on their jersey (yes, I know the W does that too, but I suspect the team owner owns some of the things advertised overseas), as has been said, some are associated with other successful (male) sports ventures. I agree about arenas, which are mostly probably smaller from anything I've seen and may be owned by a consortium, the league or a government entity. Ultimately I suspect a lot of it is, as someone above sort of suggested, a "pride" thing - we / my town / my sports organization / my company / whatever it is - can beat your "whatever it is" in any sport you name, including women's basketball.

I do want to point out that attendance overseas - from anything I have ever read - is not great.

 

[Waquoit]

So don't play in the WNBA already.

 

[JellyBean]

Nothing here answers the original question, how do foreign leagues pay player so much more? I suspect the answer is different for almost every foriegn league. I also suspect that teams paying mega salaries are make micro-profit, if any. Is there something the WNBA can learn from them? I would be shocked if the W hasn't studied this intensively.

Well the question has been answered, subsidized. And right on the money. Every foreign league is different in terms of payout to pay out to players. China. Russia, Germany, Israel, Spain and Turkey typically pay more vs say Poland or the Philippines.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

But ESPN doesn't broadcast their games, so fans don't get the chance to watch WNBA games. It's becoming clear that the NBA has no interest in aggressively marketing the WNBA product.

ESPN is a tramp. If they thought the money was there, they would show the games. We are probably the worst fanbase to objectively look at this issue. We love Women's Basketball in a way most places can't comprehend. That love isn't a national thing.

 

[BostonCanuck]

I'm guessing there's a widespread misconception that most WNBA players playing overseas during the real basketball season are making hundreds of thousands of dollars. The media always uses Taurasi's $1.5 million as an illustration, but that's undoubtedly the highest, and probably a major outlier. And also probably not even representative of her entire overseas career. I've seen "typical" WNBA overseas salaries quoted in the ballpark of $7,000-$13,000/month for 5-7 months, plus expenses. The numbers for USA players not on WNBA rosters were lower. The per-season extremes on those "WNBA player" numbers are $35,000-$91,000, which is probably a lot more realistic for the rank & file of the 63 WNBA players who play overseas.

It would be interesting if the WNBA were to remove the salary caps that have the league's very best players topping out at just over $100K for the season. Then I suspect it would morph towards something more like you're describing, with more money being "found" to play the superstars, but then the rank and file perhaps making less than they do now. Not sure most of the players would like that any better.

 

[lne001]

ESPN is a tramp. If they thought the money was there, they would show the games.

Your usage of the descriptor 'tramp' has me confused. If you are calling ESPN a whore because they are in pursuit of money, I would highly disagree.

 

[bballnut90]

It would be interesting if the WNBA were to remove the salary caps that have the league's very best players topping out at just over $100K for the season. Then I suspect it would morph towards something more like you're describing, with more money being "found" to play the superstars, but then the rank and file perhaps making less than they do now. Not sure most of the players would like that any better.

I think this would be the smart move. Doesn’t make sense to have 5-6 players on the same team with max contracts when there are really just 1-2 standouts. Let the stars make better money and get paid their comparative worth. You look at Angel, Diana, Parker, Cambage, etc and they’ve all taken time off from the W to rest. Pay your franchise players more and they’ll be more inclined to play.

And if Liz doesn’t want to play in the WNBA, she doesn’t have to. It’s far and away the best league and a great chance for her to develop herself into the best in the world, as well as establish her own legacy, but if she decides making $100k for 3 months isn’t worth it, that’s her choice. That said, it’s another reason why it’d make sense to increase the max contract amount so the WNBA would be able to keep players like in the league every year.

 

[noirwestern]

I'm still stuck on this part, I worry about my body, my mind and my soul. I really don't get paid enough to be beaten up every game. I'm not a WWE wrestler and that's how it feels sometimes out on the court." when she's the one who is going to injure someone else with her style of play.

 

[Carnac]

Nor do you have a league without the owners.




And their primary principle in making money is not to throw their investments down a dark hole, but rather find more lucrative opportunities. There is absolutely no reason I can see for anyone to subsidize and prop up the WNBA.

Question - How does an owner make a small fortune in the WNBA?
Answer - Start with a large fortune.
(apologies to the restaurant business)

So what do you suggest?

 

[psconn]

I'm still stuck on this part, I worry about my body, my mind and my soul. I really don't get paid enough to be beaten up every game. I'm not a WWE wrestler and that's how it feels sometimes out on the court." when she's the one who is going to injure someone else with her style of play.

Liz apparently wants to deal out the punishment without being subjected to it herself. She's been suspended in the relatively recent past for her unnecessary physicality when she delivered an intentional knee into the back of Mistie Basses leg. "A bit of a corky".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.he...s/news-story/b1326816e81d86373d3f03ce90f156ce

 

[eebmg]

Well, she picked a nice time to vent. With Dallas hanging by a thread to get into the Playoffs. Does her rant mean she will sit out the last games and personally help the Wings over the cliff?

 

[lne001]

So what do you suggest?

Only that the players quit whining and get real. If they have better opportunities in the world then they should pursue them. Going on strike is another option, if they have the nerve.

I've always believed in the dictum that you are only worth what someone will pay you.

 

[Roger G]

Well for one thing, the marketing in the WNBA misses the point all the time. Instead of advertising their product, the advertise everything except the product: "watch me work" (so what - lots of others work hard), "we're women" (ah, we could tell), "we support all these other causes" (and the causes you choose annoy a significant portion of the population). Not once have I EVER heard the WNBA advertise the entertainment value of watching their version of basketball (which actually is the reason I watch it).
Since the poobahs of the league don't know what they are selling, they are unlikely to ever be successful.

So, so true. I feel exactly the same way. It's entertaining for me, so I watch it. Their leadership is clueless.

 

[Roger G]

Why don't all of us who enjoy the WNBA commit to giving half our paychecks (or SS checks) to the WNBA so that they can pay all their players 6 figure salaries? No? Bad idea? That's the problem with subsidies, in the end the public ends up paying for them one way or another, higher prices or higher taxes. It makes more sense to dump the salary caps and let everyone compete for players. The salary caps are there for the benefit of the owners and the league, not the players.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Your usage of the descriptor 'tramp' has me confused. If you are calling ESPN a whore because they are in pursuit of money, I would highly disagree.

I don't think is a bad thing. It is a business. But that was my point, if a company good at making money thought showing more WNBA games would increase revenue.......they would. The fact they don't is telling.

 

[shizam]

I don't think is a bad thing. It is a business. But that was my point, if a company good at making money thought showing more WNBA games would increase revenue..they would. The fact they don't is telling.

Exactly. A few years ago ESPN was at David Stern's throat because the W wasn't worth showing and nobody was watching. Stern wouldn't let them cut the number of games. It was dead programming and a ratings desert. At least now it's showing signs of life.

 

[shizam]

Why don't all of us who enjoy the WNBA commit to giving half our paychecks (or SS checks) to the WNBA so that they can pay all their players 6 figure salaries? No? Bad idea? That's the problem with subsidies, in the end the public ends up paying for them one way or another, higher prices or higher taxes. It makes more sense to dump the salary caps and let everyone compete for players. The salary caps are there for the benefit of the owners and the league, not the players.

I enjoy the WNBA but the play sometimes is still bad. Too many bricks and airballs for most fans though I enjoy the game for what it is. The Fever scored 2 points TOTAL in the 4th quarter today vs Mystics. Not one field goal. Also, the attendance in Indy showed 7,500. It looked like a ghost town on TV. Was everyone in the upper deck? Four teams out of twelve get numbers though hopefully Aces can use today's 7.000+ crowd as a springboard. They had a streak of below 5,000 for a while until recently.
Very good markets
Minn, Seattle, LA, Phoenix
Ok markets
CT, Wash, Indiana, Vegas?, Chicago
Poor markets
Atl, Dallas, NY (since the move)

 

[Dillon77]

Exactly. A few years ago ESPN was at David Stern's throat because the W wasn't worth showing and nobody was watching. Stern wouldn't let them cut the number of games. It was dead programming and a ratings desert. At least now it's showing signs of life.

Speaking of "desert" --- ESPN would rather build a franchise around the various NBA summer leagues (one of which is in Las Vegas) and run those during prime time. Obviously, the viewership for that is there....

 

[CocoHusky]

Amen! I always thought that was a terrible slogan. People watch the games to see tremendous athletes PLAY!! They want to get away from "work." Work is boring! They want to see Diana Taurasi be spectacular! They want to see Liz Cambage be dominant! They want to see Tina Charles score with four defenders hanging on her! (Basically every point she scores). They want to see the great UConn players show what they can do among the best of the best! Terrible slogan. Agreed.

The slogan is/was fine. Regardless of the professional sport, spectators are there to watch athletes "work". I don't particularly like Liz Cambage and I'm not sure why she is being so salty or why she came back to WNBA in the first place. If she have better playing opportunities then Duces!

 

[Kevin G]

The first 2 things that come to my mind are:

1) What is the attendance of oversea leagues versus WNBA attendance?
2) Cost? All the costs associated with having a professional team...overseas versus WNBA

 

[JellyBean]

The first 2 things that come to my mind are:

1) What is the attendance of oversea leagues versus WNBA attendance?
2) Cost? All the costs associated with having a professional team...overseas versus WNBA

I had the pleasure of watching a German professional women's basketball league back in the early part of the 90s; probably around 1992-93 range. The Wuppertal Wings. Attendance was similar to a high school basketball game. The gym was small. I would be shocked if somebody said that there were 500 people in attendance during some of those games. But I would bet that your more star studded teams would have a bigger following than your average team from say a small town in West Poland.