Liz Cambage Disses the WNBA

[Fairfield Fan]

In perhaps the most revealing comments about how the WNBA is a poor league for its players, Liz Cambage, the league's leading scorer and a true superstar, dissed the WNBA and stated that she won't play for it long-term:

"Whether Cambage returns to the WNBA next year or not, she says the WNBA is not a league she plans on playing in long term. All season, Cambage has been vocal about the issues of concern for WNBA players including travel conditions, on-court play and pay disparity.

"For Cambage, the price and physical toll of a WNBA season is potentially not worth the return.

"I've said this many times: [The WNBA] doesn't pay my bills ... playing here doesn't pay my bills," Cambage said. "We make more money overseas. I'm ready to have next summer off and focus on getting a European contract where its 10 seasons here worth the pay.

"It sucks because I love to be here, I love to put the game out there, I love what comes with playing here. But at the end of the day, for my longevity, I worry about my body, my mind and my soul. I really don't get paid enough to be beaten up every game. I'm not a WWE wrestler and that's how it feels sometimes out on the court."

Wings' Cambage: May not return to WNBA in '19

This is what players have been saying all summer long. Clearly, something is seriously wrong with the WNBA if its top players are saying that it's not worth the lousy pay and the danger of injury, and that time off from their real gigs in Europe or elsewhere is more important than playing in the U.S. This is in line with the comments of UConn superstar Diana Taurasi, who said that she was playing in the WNBA basically to get health insurance coverage.

The big question is why overseas leagues from China and Korea to Russia and Turkey, and the European leagues in between can attract American players and pay them well- and thrive as leagues- but this step-child of the NBA can't be bothered to make it a real option for top players?

 

[JordyG]

In perhaps the most revealing comments about how the WNBA is a poor league for its players, Liz Cambage, the league's leading scorer and a true superstar, dissed the WNBA and stated that she won't play for it long-term:

"Whether Cambage returns to the WNBA next year or not, she says the WNBA is not a league she plans on playing in long term. All season, Cambage has been vocal about the issues of concern for WNBA players including travel conditions, on-court play and pay disparity.

"For Cambage, the price and physical toll of a WNBA season is potentially not worth the return.

"I've said this many times: [The WNBA] doesn't pay my bills ... playing here doesn't pay my bills," Cambage said. "We make more money overseas. I'm ready to have next summer off and focus on getting a European contract where its 10 seasons here worth the pay.

"It sucks because I love to be here, I love to put the game out there, I love what comes with playing here. But at the end of the day, for my longevity, I worry about my body, my mind and my soul. I really don't get paid enough to be beaten up every game. I'm not a WWE wrestler and that's how it feels sometimes out on the court."

Wings' Cambage: May not return to WNBA in '19

This is what players have been saying all summer long. Clearly, something is seriously wrong with the WNBA if its top players are saying that it's not worth the lousy pay and the danger of injury, and that time off from their real gigs in Europe or elsewhere is more important than playing in the U.S. This is in line with the comments of UConn superstar Diana Taurasi, who said that she was playing in the WNBA basically to get health insurance coverage.

The big question is why overseas leagues from China and Korea to Russia and Turkey, and the European leagues in between can attract American players and pay them well- and thrive as leagues- but this step-child of the NBA can't be bothered to make it a real option for top players?

Liz is preaching some real talk here and so are you.

 

[BostonCanuck]

I think I understand the economics of the WNBA and how the league doesn't really generate the revenues and net returns to pay their players more. But I've often wondered what the financial model is for the overseas leagues that they can and do pay their top players as much as they do. Surely receipts from ticket sales can't be that much higher, can they? I assume that the operating costs probably are significantly lower, for things like the facilities and venues where games are played, for example. Are many of these teams simply owned by rich oligarchs for whom money isn't an object?

I mean putting aside the WNBA situation for a moment, how is it that these overseas leagues in places like Turkey and Russia are able to write high-six and seven figure checks to so many of their players?

 

[eebmg]

I think I understand the economics of the WNBA and how the league doesn't really generate the revenues and net returns to pay their players more. But I've often wondered what the financial model is for the overseas leagues that they can and do pay their top players as much as they do. Surely receipts from ticket sales can't be that much higher, can they? I assume that the operating costs probably are significantly lower, for things like the facilities and venues where games are played, for example. Are many of these teams simply owned by rich oligarchs for whom money isn't an object?

I mean putting aside the WNBA situation for a moment, how is it that these overseas leagues in places like Turkey and Russia are able to write high-six and seven figure checks to so many of their players?

SUBSIDIES. Something the NBA (and the American psyche) cannot abide.

See for example the following link.

Barker: For WNBA players, the real money is overseas


Why are overseas teams able to pay women’s basketball players so much more than they are paid here? There are a variety of reasons, according to Allison Galer, who represents eight WNBA players and a handful of non-WNBA players overseas.

Some teams, like most of the teams in Russia, are funded by the municipal governments to serve as a source of local pride. Others, like those in Turkey, are attached to very lucrative men’s soccer clubs.

 

[EricLA]

I think I understand the economics of the WNBA and how the league doesn't really generate the revenues and net returns to pay their players more. But I've often wondered what the financial model is for the overseas leagues that they can and do pay their top players as much as they do. Surely receipts from ticket sales can't be that much higher, can they? I assume that the operating costs probably are significantly lower, for things like the facilities and venues where games are played, for example. Are many of these teams simply owned by rich oligarchs for whom money isn't an object?

I mean putting aside the WNBA situation for a moment, how is it that these overseas leagues in places like Turkey and Russia are able to write high-six and seven figure checks to so many of their players?

My understanding, at least for Russia (per @MilfordHusky ) is that the Russian teams are owned by Russian billionaires and they have the teams as a sort of "vanity" item - meaning it's not meant to make them money, but rather to own something they think is "cool" (or whatever term you want to use). This is why the billionaires can throw money at their teams.

Another option might be looking at locating teams in cities that have casino's with stadium facilities near by. The Sun and Aces have much less costs because they are owned by the Casinos (at least I think they are). That means the facility rental is negligible. Those entities make the $ off the concessions and ticket prices, but since they already own the facility as well as the team, the cash outflow for venue rental is not the same as the Liberty in MSG...

Lastly, the WNBA should be subsidized by the NBA. The NBA makes billions. They could easily afford to spend some $ to help support the WNBA.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

My understanding, at least for Russia (per @MilfordHusky ) is that the Russian teams are owned by Russian billionaires and they have the teams as a sort of "vanity" item - meaning it's not meant to make them money, but rather to own something they think is "cool" (or whatever term you want to use). This is why the billionaires can throw money at their teams.

Another option might be looking at locating teams in cities that have casino's with stadium facilities near by. The Sun and Aces have much less costs because they are owned by the Casinos (at least I think they are). That means the facility rental is negligible. Those entities make the $ off the concessions and ticket prices, but since they already own the facility as well as the team, the cash outflow for venue rental is not the same as the Liberty in MSG...

Lastly, the WNBA should be subsidized by the NBA. The NBA makes billions. They could easily afford to spend some $ to help support the WNBA.

That is anecdotal evidence. But so many other leagues and teams are not owned by Russian billionaires. The French league is apparently strong and profitable. The Korean and Chinese leagues are thriving. Turkey has been a major destination for top American players. They can't all be operating for "local pride." So many leagues, such good pay, and they aren't folding.

Something is wrong with the WNBA, and I suspect it can be found with the men who control the parent company- the NBA....

 

[j66kicker]

That is anecdotal evidence. But so many other leagues and teams are not owned by Russian billionaires. The French league is apparently strong and profitable. The Korean and Chinese leagues are thriving. Turkey has been a major destination for top American players. They can't all be operating for "local pride." So many leagues, such good pay, and they aren't folding.

Something is wrong with the WNBA, and I suspect it can be found with the men who control the parent company- the NBA....

So if that's what's wrong, then the solution is easy. The WNBA should just go independent, tell the NBA it no longer needs their help because they're what's wrong with them in the first place, and go out and make it on its own.

 

[vtcwbuff]

So if the women(WNBA) can't make it on their own dime - get the men (NBA) to pay for it? Why?

I think the WNBA needs to disassociate itself entirely from the NBA and sink or swim.

 

[Charliebball]

In perhaps the most revealing comments about how the WNBA is a poor league for its players, Liz Cambage, the league's leading scorer and a true superstar, dissed the WNBA and stated that she won't play for it long-term:

"Whether Cambage returns to the WNBA next year or not, she says the WNBA is not a league she plans on playing in long term. All season, Cambage has been vocal about the issues of concern for WNBA players including travel conditions, on-court play and pay disparity.

"For Cambage, the price and physical toll of a WNBA season is potentially not worth the return.

"I've said this many times: [The WNBA] doesn't pay my bills ... playing here doesn't pay my bills," Cambage said. "We make more money overseas. I'm ready to have next summer off and focus on getting a European contract where its 10 seasons here worth the pay.

"It sucks because I love to be here, I love to put the game out there, I love what comes with playing here. But at the end of the day, for my longevity, I worry about my body, my mind and my soul. I really don't get paid enough to be beaten up every game. I'm not a WWE wrestler and that's how it feels sometimes out on the court."

Wings' Cambage: May not return to WNBA in '19

This is what players have been saying all summer long. Clearly, something is seriously wrong with the WNBA if its top players are saying that it's not worth the lousy pay and the danger of injury, and that time off from their real gigs in Europe or elsewhere is more important than playing in the U.S. This is in line with the comments of UConn superstar Diana Taurasi, who said that she was playing in the WNBA basically to get health insurance coverage.

The big question is why overseas leagues from China and Korea to Russia and Turkey, and the European leagues in between can attract American players and pay them well- and thrive as leagues- but this step-child of the NBA can't be bothered to make it a real option for top players?

I'm confused about how all of these foreign leagues are able to pay these players so much more then in the US and still remain viable...........I find it unlikely that broadcasting rights and attendance are multiple times greater in Europe and Asia then in the US so I'm assuming that teams are sponsored and are loss leaders something the NBA doesn't really want to do above a certain level

 

[Blueballer]

I'm confused about how all of these foreign leagues are able to pay these players so much more then in the US and still remain viable......I find it unlikely that broadcasting rights and attendance are multiple times greater in Europe and Asia then in the US so I'm assuming that teams are sponsored and are loss leaders something the NBA doesn't really want to do above a certain level

Partial answer in this article from 2016: Barker: For WNBA players, the real money is overseas

 

[wire chief]

I wonder if Euro and Asian hunger among fans is related to the lack of a college sports system.
Do we get a satiation state of mind? I myself am an intermittent sort of fan, not paying extra, watching good match-ups involving our graduates, that is, when they are broadcast.


Our nation's ladies are celebrities worldwide, and the world knows we have the best, by far, players. Isn't it thrilling that we'll finally get a look at A'ja this winter, might be said.
College ball is simply more exciting. Maybe the connection I feel for the players before graduation
begins to dissipate afterwards for the majority of our women, as I reserve myself for the upcoming college season's ladies.

There may be a bit of a parent factor. We observe as best we can their growth from high school grad to a 22 year old.
We commiserate, we "correct them", we suffer with them...and also exult. Then there is the reality of pushing them out of the
nest to fly more independently, while we give our attention to the next batch.

If all of that above were not the case, then I'd expect a noticeable increase in fan attendance.

 

[Orangutan]

That is anecdotal evidence. But so many other leagues and teams are not owned by Russian billionaires. The French league is apparently strong and profitable. The Korean and Chinese leagues are thriving. Turkey has been a major destination for top American players. They can't all be operating for "local pride." So many leagues, such good pay, and they aren't folding.

Something is wrong with the WNBA, and I suspect it can be found with the men who control the parent company- the NBA....

Speaking of anecdotal evidence, how do we know the French, Korean, and Chinese leagues are thriving?

Not all the foreign teams are owned by billionaires but not all of them are spending huge money on Americans either. Speaking of the French league, the French teams in Euroleague last year (presumably the elite teams in France) had no WNBA players.

 

[psconn]

Nothing here answers the original question, how do foreign leagues pay player so much more? I suspect the answer is different for almost every foriegn league. I also suspect that teams paying mega salaries are make micro-profit, if any. Is there something the WNBA can learn from them? I would be shocked if the W hasn't studied this intensively.

 

[baggerbob]

Speaking of anecdotal evidence, how do we know the French, Korean, and Chinese leagues are thriving?

Not all the foreign teams are owned by billionaires but not all of them are spending huge money on Americans either. Speaking of the French league, the French teams in Euroleague last year (presumably the elite teams in France) had no WNBA players.

In China you have a limit of 1 Foreign player per team, and no idea how much is paid to the rest of the team.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

This issue isn't really complex. American sports fans don't watch Women's Basketball. Ask your friends and family who aren't Uconn Fans how many WNBA games they have then attended. Then ask how many games they watch on tv each season (the bigger question). The League doesn't draw enough butts or eyes to make a lot of money, yet. It is still a fairly young league on the U.S. landscape. It may never get there, but it is a lot more likely to grow than it was 20 years ago.

People who care have to stop comparing WNBA salaries and conditions to those in the NBA. The Lakers with Lebron or the Golden State Warriors could draw more fans to an open practice than a 1st Round WNBA Game will draw. The goals need to be incremental and realistic.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Speaking of anecdotal evidence, how do we know the French, Korean, and Chinese leagues are thriving?

Not all the foreign teams are owned by billionaires but not all of them are spending huge money on Americans either. Speaking of the French league, the French teams in Euroleague last year (presumably the elite teams in France) had no WNBA players.

Well, they continue to operate, year after year. And we know for a fact that they pay very good salaries to their players, including to American athletes. That seems pretty clear evidence that they're "thriving."

 

[Fairfield Fan]

This issue isn't really complex. American sports fans don't watch Women's Basketball. Ask your friends and family who aren't Uconn Fans how many WNBA games they have then attended. Then ask how many games they watch on tv each season (the bigger question). The League doesn't draw enough butts or eyes to make a lot of money, yet. It is still a fairly young league on the U.S. landscape. It may never get there, but it is a lot more likely to grow than it was 20 years ago.

People who care have to stop comparing WNBA salaries and conditions to those in the NBA. The Lakers with Lebron or the Golden State Warriors could draw more fans to an open practice than a 1st Round WNBA Game will draw. The goals need to be incremental and realistic.

But ESPN doesn't broadcast their games, so fans don't get the chance to watch WNBA games. It's becoming clear that the NBA has no interest in aggressively marketing the WNBA product.

 

[j66kicker]

Nothing here answers the original question, how do foreign leagues pay player so much more? I suspect the answer is different for almost every foreign league. I also suspect that teams paying mega salaries are make micro-profit, if any. Is there something the WNBA can learn from them? I would be shocked if the W hasn't studied this intensively.

I'm guessing there's a widespread misconception that most WNBA players playing overseas during the real basketball season are making hundreds of thousands of dollars. The media always uses Taurasi's $1.5 million as an illustration, but that's undoubtedly the highest, and probably a major outlier. And also probably not even representative of her entire overseas career. I've seen "typical" WNBA overseas salaries quoted in the ballpark of $7,000-$13,000/month for 5-7 months, plus expenses. The numbers for USA players not on WNBA rosters were lower. The per-season extremes on those "WNBA player" numbers are $35,000-$91,000, which is probably a lot more realistic for the rank & file of the 63 WNBA players who play overseas.

 

[Carnac]

This issue isn't really complex. American sports fans don't watch Women's Basketball. Ask your friends and family who aren't Uconn Fans how many WNBA games they have then attended. Then ask how many games they watch on tv each season (the bigger question). The League doesn't draw enough butts or eyes to make a lot of money, yet. It is still a fairly young league on the U.S. landscape. It may never get there, but it is a lot more likely to grow than it was 20 years ago.

People who care have to stop comparing WNBA salaries and conditions to those in the NBA. The Lakers with Lebron or the Golden State Warriors could draw more fans to an open practice than a 1st Round WNBA Game will draw. The goals need to be incremental and realistic.

Sad but true!!!

Fairfield said: "But ESPN doesn't broadcast their games, so fans don't get the chance to watch WNBA games. It's becoming clear that the NBA has no interest in aggressively marketing the WNBA product".

A question - would ESPN even be interested in broadcasting all of the WNBA regular and post season games? Is there a market for that kind of monetary commitment by ESPN?

Would the W. make more money partnering with ESPN to broadcast all of their games, than they do now using their own in-house League Pass?

BTW, I understand Liz Cambage's point of view. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. In her mind, she owes the W nothing. She feels she has to be true to herself. I know she sounds like a whiner, but she has other more lucrative choices. She's not happy here. I doubt she'll ever return to the W again. After a negative experience this season, and more lucrative options in Europe, do the math. If I'm a HC or GM, If she's not going to buy in and be a "team" player, I wouldn't want her. I'd look elsewhere for a post player. I don't need the disruption or chemistry killer in my locker room.

The league has to figure out a way to get more than 20% of the proceeds to the players. Cut costs, cut staff, do something. You don't have a league without the players. The size of that "dangling" carrot must be increased.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

So if that's what's wrong, then the solution is easy. The WNBA should just go independent, tell the NBA it no longer needs their help because they're what's wrong with them in the first place, and go out and make it on its own.

Perhaps a new relationship is needed. Perhaps new management can bring in new capital and push harder. If all these overseas leagues can stay in business and pay a lot of local players (not American) excellent salaries, then clearly the WNBA can do much better.

 

[j66kicker]

Perhaps a new relationship is needed. Perhaps new management can bring in new capital and push harder. If all these overseas leagues can stay in business and pay a lot of local players (not American) excellent salaries, then clearly the WNBA can do much better.

I'm not at all sure these overseas teams pay their local players "excellent salaries." I believe the WNBA players on many of those teams (presumably who make between $35K and $91K overseas, other than the small handful of bona fide international superstars), make a lot more than their local counterparts.

 

[Charliebball]

Speaking of anecdotal evidence, how do we know the French, Korean, and Chinese leagues are thriving?

Not all the foreign teams are owned by billionaires but not all of them are spending huge money on Americans either. Speaking of the French league, the French teams in Euroleague last year (presumably the elite teams in France) had no WNBA players.

Well, they continue to operate, year after year. And we know for a fact that they pay very good salaries to their players, including to American athletes. That seems pretty clear evidence that they're "thriving."

if they are really loss leaders or vanity projects for a major sports team of large corporation they can afford to lose as much money as the see fit...........you would think that the NBA should be looking for powerful sponsors to team up with to the improve salaries/conditions in kind of the same way instead of just letting them have just enough cash to exist

 

[Carnac]

Perhaps a new relationship is needed. Perhaps new management can bring in new capital and push harder. If all these overseas leagues can stay in business and pay a lot of local players (not American) excellent salaries, then clearly the WNBA can do much better.

I suggested the same thing in another post. I suggested a volunteer "think tank" of 4-6 successful millionaire & billionaire business people i.e., Mark Cuban, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, that could come together and accept the "challenge" of putting together a business model that would be attractive to the public (increase attendance at games), and show a nice profit as well. More than likely, they've all dealt with similar issues the W is having now. This would be a step in the right direction. One thing all successful millionaires/billionaires have in common, they ALL know how to make money.

 

[lne001]

You don't have a league without the players.

Nor do you have a league without the owners.

One thing all successful millionaires/billionaires have in common, they ALL know how to make money.

And their primary principle in making money is not to throw their investments down a dark hole, but rather find more lucrative opportunities. There is absolutely no reason I can see for anyone to subsidize and prop up the WNBA.

Question - How does an owner make a small fortune in the WNBA?
Answer - Start with a large fortune.
(apologies to the restaurant business)

 

[trisailin]

Well for one thing, the marketing in the WNBA misses the point all the time. Instead of advertising their product, the advertise everything except the product: "watch me work" (so what - lots of others work hard), "we're women" (ah, we could tell), "we support all these other causes" (and the causes you choose annoy a significant portion of the population). Not once have I EVER heard the WNBA advertise the entertainment value of watching their version of basketball (which actually is the reason I watch it).
Since the poobahs of the league don't know what they are selling, they are unlikely to ever be successful.