Liz Cambage Disses the WNBA

[Fairfield Fan]

Agreed...I really don't think the owners have much to lose if players go on strike, where in the NBA the owners have heaps of millions to lose. I can't imagine that many teams are that profitable with the mediocre attendance and free tickets given out to boost attendance. Unless players are on a rookie contract, most of these players make between 90-115k for 4 months out of the year, and almost all of these players are in their mid 20s to early 30s. Not to mention they have a college degree with zero debt. Compare that to the average college grad who makes $40k out of school and has $50k in student loans. These players are making good money. Plus many of the players who've been vocal make big bucks overseas (Taurasi, McBride, Cambage), should be able to live off their basketball earnings the rest of their life provided they don't blow through their money. Look at almost any other women's sport and see how much players make...it's a fraction of what players in the W make. The players have a lot more to lose than the owners if they were to go on strike.

Well, we're about to find out. If the WNBA folds, at least half of the league's players will simply continue to play in Europe and Asia, and for a lot of money. If the NBA folds the WNBA, will a new league emerge?

And in terms of players being "vocal," Diana Taurasi stated that it is very rare that the players get to be together and discuss issues of importance to them. It could be that they are just now finding their voice, and only now beginning to truly organize in their best interests.

I find it very surprising that the fans of women's basketball are so critical of those same women athletes when they talk about negotiating a better deal for themselves, including better pay and working conditions. I don't understand why these ardent fans of UConn women's basketball, whose players almost all go on to play in the pros, don't want to stand behind them when they speak out for a better deal.

I'm on their side. I'm rooting for them to get all they're entitled to.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

If you think it’s about gender equality, I guess that has to start with the consumer. Why aren’t they gobbling up the product?

As Diana Taurasi and Liz Cambage, two of the finest women's basketball players ever, pointed out, the league is just not marketing this product nearly as well as they should be. They're not selling the product to those consumers.

 

[bballnut90]

As Diana Taurasi and Liz Cambage, two of the finest women's basketball players ever, pointed out, the league is just not marketing this product nearly as well as they should be. They're not selling the product to those consumers.

I think this is the biggest issue....the league hasn't been able to market well enough to draw in new fans or boost attendance even though the quality of play is far better and more entertaining than it was just 5-10 years ago.

 

[msf22b]

Liz had a huge game, willed her team into the playoffs.
I am fundamentally with her with regard her business
observations.
The W is (in many ways) a joke....nice if it stays alive; no great loss if it doesn't.
Won't have a big impact on our college favs ability to make a living; just our ability to follow them.
Yes, 100k for 4 months on a major professional sports team of our finest woman is a joke and a travesty...only in America!

 

[Shades]

Liz had a huge game, willed her team into the playoffs.
I am fundamentally with her with regard her business
observations.
The W is (in many ways) a joke....nice if it stays alive; no great loss if it doesn't.
Won't have a big impact on our college favs ability to make a living; just our ability to follow them.
Yes, 100k for 4 months on a major professional sports team of our finest woman is a joke and a travesty...only in America!

Most of the players in the WNBL (Australia) get far less.

 

[Shades]

As Diana Taurasi and Liz Cambage, two of the finest women's basketball players ever, pointed out, the league is just not marketing this product nearly as well as they should be. They're not selling the product to those consumers.

In a way, I market at a grassroots level to hardcore women’s college basketball fans by starting WNBA game threads to encourage these hardcore women’s college basketball fans to watch WNBA games live, but the response has been disappointingly tepid. There’s not a lot of evidence to show that the majority of hardcore women’s college basketball fans are interested in watching WNBA games live over what they normally watch or do. They are more interested in looking at the box score to see how their college favorites did. This is a general conclusion that doesn’t apply to everyone obviously.
So if you’re one of these hardcore women’s college basketball fans who aren’t that into the WNBA, I’m curious why. Is it because you have no local team (that might be huge for me)? Is it because it’s hard to find on television (even though most games are on very cheap League Pass that can be played on television)? Or is it you just don’t care for the product?
If it’s difficult to market to hardcore women’s college basketball fans on their own turf, how much good is it going to do to throw a ton of television marketing money at NBA fans, who would be presumably so much less interested in the WNBA than hardcore women’s college basketball fans? I don’t think a ton of money into television marketing is going to do a lot of good or has shown to be an effective use of the money. They need to rely on the grassroots methods until they’re a richer league, and that’s going to take time and patience.

 

[j66kicker]

Let's see. Doesn't the organization that owns the NY Knicks also own the Liberty? Didn't the NBA establish the WNBA? I've read references to subsidies from the NBA to the WNBA. Are we sure that the NBA doesn't exercise significant influence over the WNBA?

The only influence the Liberty are getting from the MSG (Knicks) group is trying (unsuccessfully) to sell them, then moving them to a remote dump of an arena with half the seating capacity of the Liberty's average attendance last year. This is an organization that cares so deeply about women's issues that their owner (Dolan) and President (Isaiah Thomas) have both been in court for sexually harassing female employees.

 

[j66kicker]

In a way, I market at a grassroots level to hardcore women’s college basketball fans by starting WNBA game threads to encourage these hardcore women’s college basketball fans to watch WNBA games live, but the response has been disappointingly tepid. There’s not a lot of evidence to show that the majority of hardcore women’s college basketball fans are interested in watching WNBA games live over what they normally watch or do. They are more interested in looking at the box score to see how their college favorites did. This is a general conclusion that doesn’t apply to everyone obviously.
So if you’re one of these hardcore women’s college basketball fans who aren’t that into the WNBA, I’m curious why. Is it because you have no local team (that might be huge for me)? Is it because it’s hard to find on television (even though most games are on very cheap League Pass that can be played on television)? Or is it you just don’t care for the product?
If it’s difficult to market to hardcore women’s college basketball fans on their own turf, how much good is it going to do to throw a ton of television marketing money at NBA fans, who would be presumably so much less interested in the WNBA than hardcore women’s college basketball fans? I don’t think a ton of money into television marketing is going to do a lot of good or has shown to be an effective use of the money. They need to rely on the grassroots methods until they’re a richer league, and that’s going to take time and patience.

I'm a hard core UConn WBB fan, and I do go to a few WNBA games a year and watch a lot of them on TV and League Pass. But I admit my interest in the WNBA is more driven by following past UConn stars than by actually finding the WNBA game exciting. I feel lucky to have lived in Phoenix for the past 10 years and been able to go see DT play whenever I want. For the most part, without the UConn stars, and a few other players I'm very familiar with from hating them in college or otherwise following them as UConn opponents, I probably wouldn't find the WNBA all that exciting.

In the earlier days of the WNBA there was a concerted effort to place college stars near where they played in college. It worked out great for Minnesota with Lindsay Whalen, for example. When I still lived in CT I went to see the Sun play so I could see Nykesha. I think that sort of marketing might work better - at least on male sports fans - than gender-related causes which are probably aimed at females but don't seem to be having any positive effect.

 

[j66kicker]

I'm rooting for them to get all they're entitled to.

I hope they get more too, by increasing the popularity of the game, thereby increasing the revenue available. But they aren't "entitled" to anything. I hate the entitlement mentality. This is capitalism - you eat what you kill.

 

[vtcwbuff]

If you want to point a gender finger as the reason the WNBA is struggling then point it at women. All those women who don't attend games, who don't watch on TV and couldn't care less about supporting a women's pro league. If women were sports fans at anywhere near the level that men are then women's pro leagues would be successful.

I have been a UConn WCBB fan for many years. So has my wife. My daughter attended UConn for 7 years. My wife is a fan only because I forced her interest. I call her "fan lite." Both my kids are UConn grads and big UConn basketball fans - of the men. If I mention the women's game to either of them I get a polite "Yeah they're pretty good this year" and then their eyes glaze over, just like every other sports fan I know.

 

[ricky]

Let's be honest and fair. Men's sports are not living off of their own dime. They are on government assistance.

We Subsidize Men's Sports. Maybe It's Time To Subsidize Women's Sports

 

[Jaybird65]

[QUOTE="Fairfield Fan, post: 2812681, member: 6911"

Something is wrong with the WNBA, and I suspect it can be found with the men who control the parent company- the NBA....[/QUOTE]

7 of the 12 WNBA teams are now independently owned. While the "umbrella" may still be there, not sure the parent company thing applies anymore.

 

[j66kicker]

Let's be honest and fair. Men's sports are not living off of their own dime. They are on government assistance.

We Subsidize Men's Sports. Maybe It's Time To Subsidize Women's Sports

The article refers only to stadium subsidies. Municipalities come up with bond issues to subsidize stadiums in order to get teams to come to, or not leave, their town. The idea is the town benefits in restaurant and hospitality spending as well as prestige. The alternative is to vote down the bond issue and the team leaves to go to a municipality with a more lucrative offer, such as the Baltimore Colts moving to Indianapolis, the Seattle Supersonics moving to Oklahoma City and the Oakland Raiders moving to Las Vegas.

In other words, it's competitive, just like all these cities currently offering tax breaks trying to get Amazon to put their 2nd HQ there. When the WNBA can offer similar benefits to municipalities, then they will be able to play one town against the other to get the best deal too.

 

[lne001]

Let's be honest and fair. Men's sports are not living off of their own dime. They are on government assistance.

We Subsidize Men's Sports. Maybe It's Time To Subsidize Women's Sports

That is not really honest, and fair has nothing to do with the issue.

The only government subsidy he seems to identify is for sports stadiums and arenas funded by state and/or local governments. These are exclusively justified as investments for the local economy. Impossible to make that claim for women's sports.

Instead he finds 2 benefits in subsidizing women. They would be role models for youngsters (girls only in reality), and women who play sports do better in a man's business world, and they are thinner. Not sufficient reasons, in my estimation.

 

[ricky]

The article refers only to stadium subsidies. Municipalities come up with bond issues to subsidize stadiums in order to get teams to come to, or not leave, their town. The idea is the town benefits in restaurant and hospitality spending as well as prestige. The alternative is to vote down the bond issue and the team leaves to go to a municipality with a more lucrative offer, such as the Baltimore Colts moving to Indianapolis, the Seattle Supersonics moving to Oklahoma City and the Oakland Raiders moving to Las Vegas.

In other words, it's competitive, just like all these cities currently offering tax breaks trying to get Amazon to put their 2nd HQ there. When the WNBA can offer similar benefits to municipalities, then they will be able to play one town against the other to get the best deal too.

I get the concept of competition and businesses following the money. But when you allow a government entity to use the people's money to pay the rent, that's similar to section 8 and corporate welfare. In my mind, that's not in the true spirit of free market. And not every citizen appreciates the sport and wants to pay someone else's rent.

 

[lne001]

I get the concept of competition and businesses following the money. But when you allow a government entity to use the people's money to pay the rent, that's similar to section 8 and corporate welfare. In my mind, that's not in the true spirit of free market. And not every citizen appreciates the sport and wants to pay someone else's rent.

Would this apply to Hartford's XL Center and the Rent stadium as well? If so, UConn will need to find some new locations for their biggest games.

 

[nwhoopfan]

the Seattle Supersonics moving to Oklahoma City

Always helps when the league commissioner is in collusion with the new ownership group. Don't even get me started. Stern was a shifty, beady eyed little piece of crap. Sonics fans will never get over the way their team was taken away. And I'm more of a Blazer guy, at least when I followed the NBA.

 

[j66kicker]

Always helps when the league commissioner is in collusion with the new ownership group. Don't even get me started. Stern was a shifty, beady eyed little piece of crap. Sonics fans will never get over the way their team was taken away. And I'm more of a Blazer guy, at least when I followed the NBA.

If the people of Seattle wanted a basketball team they could have had one. Apparently they learned their lesson and approved the current football & baseball stadiums. (BTW I watched the Kingdome implosion live - what a hoot!)

 

[triaddukefan]

If the people of Seattle wanted a basketball team they could have had one. Apparently they learned their lesson and approved the current football & baseball stadiums. (BTW I watched the Kingdome implosion live - what a hoot!)

The baseball and football stadiums were built several years before the Sonics left town. Guess they were tired of funding stadiums and the Sonics were the odd team out.

 

[nwhoopfan]

The city of Seattle mishandled the situation, but it was completely underhanded the way it went down. Clay Bennett and company paid lip service to keeping the team in Seattle but absolutely intended from day one to move them to OKC, lied about it, and Stern was totally in on it the whole time. Also Howard Schultz was a genius.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

That is not really honest, and fair has nothing to do with the issue.

The only government subsidy he seems to identify is for sports stadiums and arenas funded by state and/or local governments. These are exclusively justified as investments for the local economy. Impossible to make that claim for women's sports.

Instead he finds 2 benefits in subsidizing women. They would be role models for youngsters (girls only in reality), and women who play sports do better in a man's business world, and they are thinner. Not sufficient reasons, in my estimation.

The stadium subsidy is enormous for a business most of whose expenses are the venue and players' salaries. What else is there?

I've seen analyses that show that the billions that states and cities come up with to build stadiums for pro football teams is actually a terrible deal, and that the commercial activity generated by the teams is far below the cost of the subsidies. Some cities are balking at the costs now.

 

[msf22b]

.
So if you’re one of these hardcore women’s college basketball fans who aren’t that into the WNBA, I’m curious why.

I've watched the W, had a pass for a few seasons, gone to some games...et al.

But, I've come to the conclusion that I enjoy UConn woman's BB more ....more coherent, purer in style and intent,
more focus on fundamentals; especially D; in a word: way better coaching. So I let my subscriptions lapse.

It was a little like what happened in the under 17/18 this summer. Some posters thought that there was a big talent disparity with the younger kids, way more gifted.

Couldn't disagree more...it was all about coaching and fundamentals being rigorously emphasized.

 

[Mlb0814]

Her behavior has at times been unacceptable in Australia too, including getting kicked off their Olympic team.

I was just watching one of her past games against the US and she actually sucker punched a US player in the stomach. The announcers missed why the player was doubled over and when it was replayed they were speechless. She may be a talented player but I am not a fan of hers.

 

[Shmermerer]

I was just watching one of her past games against the US and she actually sucker punched a US player in the stomach. The announcers missed why the player was doubled over and when it was replayed they were speechless. She may be a talented player but I am not a fan of hers.

I love her. She brings buzz to a business that really needs it. She’s exciting, talented, vocal, REAL, and still figuring herself out which is exactly where one normally is at 27.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

I was just watching one of her past games against the US and she actually sucker punched a US player in the stomach. The announcers missed why the player was doubled over and when it was replayed they were speechless. She may be a talented player but I am not a fan of hers.

I recall how Britney Griner didn't "sucker punch" a player, but actually walked up to her and smashed her in the face. Didn't she break the kid's nose? At least that was years ago in college...

 

[j66kicker]

I recall how Britney Griner didn't "sucker " a player, but actually walked up to her and smashed her in the face. Didn't she break the kid's nose? At least that was years ago in college...

The infamous Barncastle incident. ETT felt it was somewhat justified, as Griner was tired of getting grabbed & mugged all the time. Defenders had to think twice after that.

 

[Mlb0814]

I love her. She brings buzz to a business that really needs it. She’s exciting, talented, vocal, REAL, and still figuring herself out which is exactly where one normally is at 27.

And I like all of those attributes; it’s the dirty play I can’t stand. Completely turns me off as a fan.

 

[Carnac]

In perhaps the most revealing comments about how the WNBA is a poor league for its players, Liz Cambage, the league's leading scorer and a true superstar, dissed the WNBA and stated that she won't play for it long-term:

"Whether Cambage returns to the WNBA next year or not, she says the WNBA is not a league she plans on playing in long term. All season, Cambage has been vocal about the issues of concern for WNBA players including travel conditions, on-court play and pay disparity.

"For Cambage, the price and physical toll of a WNBA season is potentially not worth the return.

"I've said this many times: [The WNBA] doesn't pay my bills ... playing here doesn't pay my bills," Cambage said. "We make more money overseas. I'm ready to have next summer off and focus on getting a European contract where its 10 seasons here worth the pay.

"It sucks because I love to be here, I love to put the game out there, I love what comes with playing here. But at the end of the day, for my longevity, I worry about my body, my mind and my soul. I really don't get paid enough to be beaten up every game. I'm not a WWE wrestler and that's how it feels sometimes out on the court."

Wings' Cambage: May not return to WNBA in '19

This is what players have been saying all summer long. Clearly, something is seriously wrong with the WNBA if its top players are saying that it's not worth the lousy pay and the danger of injury, and that time off from their real gigs in Europe or elsewhere is more important than playing in the U.S. This is in line with the comments of UConn superstar Diana Taurasi, who said that she was playing in the WNBA basically to get health insurance coverage.

The big question is why overseas leagues from China and Korea to Russia and Turkey, and the European leagues in between can attract American players and pay them well- and thrive as leagues- but this step-child of the NBA can't be bothered to make it a real option for top players?

"I really don't get paid enough to be beaten up every game. I'm not a WWE wrestler and that's how it feels sometimes out on the court." -
Liz Cambage

The Liberty's Kia Nurse and Seattle's Natasha Howard wrestling for a loose ball.
I guess Cambage never sees/experiences this type of aggression in Europe.

 

[Waquoit]

I love her. She brings buzz to a business that really needs it. She’s exciting, talented, vocal, REAL, and still figuring herself out which is exactly where one normally is at 27.

I think this article describes what you are saying. A good read.