Lin - 28 pts, 4brds, 5stls, 14 assts.

[champs99and04]

With all due respect, if you're more influenced by his nodding his head after making a shot than him sticking with hoops even though no one believed in his abilities despite his accomplishments, his picking up a Harvard degree on the way and what he actually says when he's asked questions, as opposed to you intepreting subtle body lanuage, I would look in the mirror and think about whether your conclusions say more about you or more about him.

It truly is amazing what people find to not like in our society. It is one thing to think that the media is too quick to name him as a great basketball player (of course they are -- many can have a great month or two in the NBA and leave no long term impact whatsoever) but this young man has done nothing to give anyone reason not to like him.

You're probably right...as I said, I am not always rational. I don't like Tom Brady either. I don't like Kyle Singler, I'm not a huge fan of Tim Tebow, I don't like Ricky Rubio, or countless other people who haven't really done anything wrong. I'm sure you feel the same way about certain people. I'm also one of those guys who is more likely to resent the shiny new car in favor of the old chevy. Once Lin sticks around for a while, I'll probably begin to like him more. For now, I'm looking for reasons not to get caught up in the hype.

 

[blackbird]

If Jeremy Lin wasn't a Knick or Asian, he'd just be another name with a couple good games. This whole "Linsanity" is purely based off of race and the fact he plays in NY. Hell, Westbrook was doin this all last year, you didn't hear any "Westbrookanity" did you?

You are an idiot.

 

[champs99and04]

If Jeremy Lin wasn't a Knick or Asian, he'd just be another name with a couple good games. This whole "Linsanity" is purely based off of race and the fact he plays in NY. Hell, Westbrook was doin this all last year, you didn't hear any "Westbrookanity" did you?

This isn't necessarily true. Lin wasn't even offered a scholarship coming out of high school, he went undrafted, and he bounced around the league for two years without getting a shot. In the games he has started this season, he has been one of the best players in the league. He tore up the Lakers, he tore up the Mavericks, he hit the game winners against the Raptors and Timberwolves, and he still sleeps on Landry Fields' couch. This is the kind of stuff the media can't get enough of. I've personally never been one for the hype. I'd rather just watch the kid play.

 

[sammydabiz]

This isn't necessarily true. Lin wasn't even offered a scholarship coming out of high school, he went undrafted, and he bounced around the league for two years without getting a shot. In the games he has started this season, he has been one of the best players in the league. He tore up the Lakers, he tore up the Mavericks, he hit the game winners against the Raptors and Timberwolves, and he still sleeps on Landry Fields' couch. This is the kind of stuff the media can't get enough of. I've personally never been one for the hype. I'd rather just watch the kid play.

Totally understand the underdog aspect of it, but to claim this whole hoopla the past couple of weeks doesn't have anything to do with where he plays and his heritage, you'd be reaching.

 

[champs99and04]

Totally understand the underdog aspect of it, but to claim this whole hoopla the past couple of weeks doesn't have anything to do with where he plays and his heritage, you'd be reaching.

The Asian aspect definitely factors in. That said, I believe it would still be a huge story if Khalid-El Amin came out of nowhere to save the Knicks season.

 

[businesslawyer]

Totally understand the underdog aspect of it, but to claim this whole hoopla the past couple of weeks doesn't have anything to do with where he plays and his heritage, you'd be reaching.

Who has claimed this has nothing to do with him being of Asian descent? Why can't that make it a better story?

 

[sammydabiz]

You are an idiot.

Great post, has anybody ever pushed you towards practicing law? You have a way of proving your point. I'm very impressed

 

[NittanyHusky]

Jeremy Lin set the Knicks record for turnovers in a half with 8 the other night. He also is the first NBA player to have six or more turnovers in six straight games. He is rewriting the record books.

Yeah, you're right, Lin sucks big time and the 8-1 record he's posted is proof positive. Knicks fans everywhere are clamoring for the glory days with Baron Davis at the helm and the 8-15 record he brought with him.

 

[caw]

If Jeremy Lin wasn't a Knick or Asian, he'd just be another name with a couple good games. This whole "Linsanity" is purely based off of race and the fact he plays in NY. Hell, Westbrook was doin this all last year, you didn't hear any "Westbrookanity" did you?

What you listed are factors for why this is a huge story, not the sole factors. That is the problem with your argument.

It is truly a perfect storm of events that is causing this maelstrom of attention. In no order:

1. Asian American
2. Harvard graduate (a "never was" in college basketball, as a program)
3. New York Knicks starting PG (NYC being the "home" of PG's)
4. Undrafted
5. No D1 scholarships
6. Cut by hometown Warriors this year
7. Cut by Houston this year
8. Almost cut by Knicks this year
9. Played about 55 minutes total in first 22 games of the season (was a DNP for 13 of those games)
10. Amare out for first few games of run
11. Melo out for all 9 games in run
12. Breaking Points records in first 5, 6, 7, 8, etc. starts
13. Breaking Assist records in first 5, 6, 7, 8, etc. starts
14. 8-1 in past 9 games
15. Likeable kid

Compared to Westbrook, who is:

1. African American
2. Early NBA entrant from UCLA (true blueblood of basketball)
3. Thunder PG
4. 4th overall draft pick
5. D1 scholarship
6. Never cut by anyone
7. Played in every game his rookie year and every game his second year and every game his third year
8. Plays next to Durant who is still playing and not out
9. Averaged 15.3 points in rookie year and 16.1 in second year
10. Averaged 5.3 assists in rookie year and 8.0 in second year
11. Has had some issues in the media/with the team (fair or not)

Don't get me wrong Westbrook is a fantastic player, but his story isn't as compelling as Lin's for many, many reasons besides race and playing for the Knicks.

Westbrook is averaging 25.2, 5.4 assists and 4.7 rebounds in February with 5.2 TO's. Lin 22.1, 7.8 assists and 3.6 rebounds in February with 5.2 TO's. Lin has better shooting averages from the floor and 3, but worse from the line. Lin's stats above include 2 games where he played a combined 7 minutes. If you take those 2 games out (which is where Linsanity started) he is at: 25 Points, 9.2 assists, 3.8 rebounds and 5.9 TO's. That's a decent A/TO ratio, whereas Westbrooks is barely above 1:1. Those are HOF numbers if they remain at those levels. The fact he has been able to do it even this long is amazing, considering most thought this streak would go away after game 3.

 

[DCHuskyFan]

Now that the Denver Bronco's season is over, Jesus will have considerable time to work with Lin to improve Lin's turnover rate.

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/tebow/1374394

 

[sammydabiz]

What you listed are factors for why this is a huge story, not the sole factors. That is the problem with your argument.

It is truly a perfect storm of events that is causing this maelstrom of attention. In no order:

1. Asian American
2. Harvard graduate (a "never was" in college basketball, as a program)
3. New York Knicks starting PG (NYC being the "home" of PG's)
4. Undrafted
5. No D1 scholarships
6. Cut by hometown Warriors this year
7. Cut by Houston this year
8. Almost cut by Knicks this year
9. Played about 55 minutes total in first 22 games of the season (was a DNP for 13 of those games)
10. Amare out for first few games of run
11. Melo out for all 9 games in run
12. Breaking Points records in first 5, 6, 7, 8, etc. starts
13. Breaking Assist records in first 5, 6, 7, 8, etc. starts
14. 8-1 in past 9 games
15. Likeable kid

Compared to Westbrook, who is:

1. African American
2. Early NBA entrant from UCLA (true blueblood of basketball)
3. Thunder PG
4. 4th overall draft pick
5. D1 scholarship
6. Never cut by anyone
7. Played in every game his rookie year and every game his second year and every game his third year
8. Plays next to Durant who is still playing and not out
9. Averaged 15.3 points in rookie year and 16.1 in second year
10. Averaged 5.3 assists in rookie year and 8.0 in second year
11. Has had some issues in the media/with the team (fair or not)

Don't get me wrong Westbrook is a fantastic player, but his story isn't as compelling as Lin's for many, many reasons besides race and playing for the Knicks.

Westbrook is averaging 25.2, 5.4 assists and 4.7 rebounds in February with 5.2 TO's. Lin 22.1, 7.8 assists and 3.6 rebounds in February with 5.2 TO's. Lin has better shooting averages from the floor and 3, but worse from the line. Lin's stats above include 2 games where he played a combined 7 minutes. If you take those 2 games out (which is where Linsanity started) he is at: 25 Points, 9.2 assists, 3.8 rebounds and 5.9 TO's. That's a decent A/TO ratio, whereas Westbrooks is barely above 1:1. Those are HOF numbers if they remain at those levels. The fact he has been able to do it even this long is amazing, considering most thought this streak would go away after game 3.

Duly noted,

I'm not saying Lin isn't putting up great numbers, I'm just saying there is no way he'd be getting this messiah treatment if it weren't for being Asian and playing in NY. My best argument would be that of Kurt Warner, came from nothing to win a champinship his first year starting, and went on to win another one. In his IMO hall of Fame career, yes he may of got his 10 minute skit on his life on ESPN, but did he EVER get 3/4 of the treatment Lin has got in only what? 8 games in. Kurt Warneranity (ya try again) And coming from a shelf stocker in Iowa to Superbowl MVP is way better of a story.

 

[Fishy]

If you people think he is cocky and that he has been getting "Jordan calls" you haven't been watching. The kid is remarkably, refreshingly humble...

Ding, ding....yup.

This kid came from central casting. There is nothing, absolutely nothing not to like about him. Zero, zilch, nada. If you have a problem with Lin, it's you, not him.

He is careless with the ball, but this kid is 23 years old and has started a grand total of seven NBA games. That will get better.

 

[Deadrody]

Most of his turnovers are from over penetrating and getting picked off or stripped, but don't forget he is getting many easy baskets for his team mates by doing that. so high risk high reward, I would not want him to change because he will lose assists and effectiveness. i actually think he could pull the trigger from outside more often.

Meanwhile he is starting in his 10th game and so crucial to the team's success that they can't let him sit on the bench for more than 3 minutes. They were -7 in the two and a half minutes that he sat against Dallas.

Wow. I'm shocked anyone has a bad word to say about the kid. That's frickin' amazing.

 

[Deadrody]

If Jeremy Lin wasn't a Knick or Asian, he'd just be another name with a couple good games. This whole "Linsanity" is purely based off of race and the fact he plays in NY. Hell, Westbrook was doin this all last year, you didn't hear any "Westbrookanity" did you?

Hate to break it to you, but Jeremy Lin was UNDRAFTED. Westbrook was the 4th overall selection in the first round in 2008. Compare and contrast.

 

[Deadrody]

Yeah, you're right, Lin sucks big time and the 8-1 record he's posted is proof positive. Knicks fans everywhere are clamoring for the glory days with Baron Davis at the helm and the 8-15 record he brought with him.

Eh, see now this is going a bit too far. Clearly you don't know squat about the Knicks except what you read on the Yahoo news feed. Baron Davis has not played a minute for the Knicks yet. He has been injured all year. Lin replaced Toney Douglas, Mike Bibby, and Iman Shumpert in the starting lineup. None of them could get it done at point guard.

 

[sammydabiz]

Hate to break it to you, but Jeremy Lin was UNDRAFTED. Westbrook was the 4th overall selection in the first round in 2008. Compare and contrast.

Okay compare Linsanity to Kurt Warner, in 8 games Lin has had more fan fare than Warner ever had. Did I mention Kurt was UNDRAFTED and worked at a supermarket, to only become Superbowl MVP in his first season.

 

[Kurt]

Okay compare Linsanity to Kurt Warner, in 8 games Lin has had more fan fare than Warner ever had. Did I mention Kurt was UNDRAFTED and worked at a supermarket, to only become Superbowl MVP in his first season.

Different city.Different sport.Don't let that stop you though keep reaching.

 

[Deadrody]

Okay compare Linsanity to Kurt Warner, in 8 games Lin has had more fan fare than Warner ever had. Did I mention Kurt was UNDRAFTED and worked at a supermarket, to only become Superbowl MVP in his first season.

There was quite a bit of hype about that, but you have to consider the tradition and attention that Knicks basketball receives in NY. There is not much football history in St. Louis, and certainly not with the Rams, who only moved there 5 years before Warner made it big.

By contrast, there is an extremely rich history of basketball in Madison Square Garden.

 

[mauconnfan]

There was quite a bit of hype about that, but you have to consider the tradition and attention that Knicks basketball receives in NY. There is not much football history in St. Louis, and certainly not with the Rams, who only moved there 5 years before Warner made it big.

By contrast, there is an extremely rich history of basketball in Madison Square Garden.

Geez I do remember seeing Kurts older wife way too much on TV for a while.........it was hyped pretty well and derservedly so. To not like the Lin story is..... well what can I say?

 

[Rico444]

Okay compare Linsanity to Kurt Warner, in 8 games Lin has had more fan fare than Warner ever had. Did I mention Kurt was UNDRAFTED and worked at a supermarket, to only become Superbowl MVP in his first season.

Kurt Warner got a TON of pub that year...yes, as much as Lin is getting now.

Also, another non-Asian, non-New Yorker in Tim Tebow got a little bit of attention for a similar run a few months ago, no?

People love to get behind the underdog. Lin was undrafted and cut several times. Tebow was a first rounder, but constantly criticized and ridiculed around the league, and just about everybody said he couldn't play QB in the NFL. Then he won 7 of 8. People eat this stuff up, and if Lin was black and played in Memphis, he'd be getting a ton of publicity, too.

 

[businesslawyer]

Okay compare Linsanity to Kurt Warner, in 8 games Lin has had more fan fare than Warner ever had. Did I mention Kurt was UNDRAFTED and worked at a supermarket, to only become Superbowl MVP in his first season.

First rule of holes -- when in one stop digging.

Putting aside New York and ethnicity, Warner did not go to an Ivy League school and football isn't the same as basketball. Undrafted free agents have huge impacts on football teams all the time. Victor Cruz is only this year's example. It is not the case in basketball.

Really, stop. Lin is a bigger story because he is in New York, just because money talks, and he is a bigger story because he is of Chinese descent (which is a good thing whenever someone breaks a perceived ethnic barrier). But the fact that a basketball players goes from oblivion, being undrafted, being cut by two teams and not getting a chance with a third, and then breaks onto the scene with numbers that we haven't seen from someone starting their first few games in a generation is a big story. And should be.

 

[Excalibur]

i find it more fun to be on the opposite side as everyone else.

growing up i chose my favorite sports teams based on who were the rivals of my dad's favorite teams (i'm sure he wasn't pleased with this). i'd rather be the only lakers fan in my school, than one of 200 celtics fans.

either way, with all the jeremy lin love i would rather just take the other side. without "haters" like me, you would have nobody to argue with. that wouldn't be much fun.

as tony montana once eloquently said, "you need people like me so you can point your I have a small penisin' fingers and say 'that's the bad guy.' "

so i'll end this post with a "lin sucks" without any explanation to stir up some anger.

Thanks for explaining. I figured there was no actual thought behind it -- just unsophisticated knee-jerk contrarianism. Good to know I was right.

 

[sammydabiz]

First rule of holes -- when in one stop digging.

Putting aside New York and ethnicity, Warner did not go to an Ivy League school and football isn't the same as basketball. Undrafted free agents have huge impacts on football teams all the time. Victor Cruz is only this year's example. It is not the case in basketball.

Really, stop. Lin is a bigger story because he is in New York, just because money talks, and he is a bigger story because he is of Chinese descent (which is a good thing whenever someone breaks a perceived ethnic barrier). But the fact that a basketball players goes from oblivion, being undrafted, being cut by two teams and not getting a chance with a third, and then breaks onto the scene with numbers that we haven't seen from someone starting their first few games in a generation is a big story. And should be.

Lol, if your read my first post, you'd be pleasantly surprised that you just agreed with me. Lin is a huge story because of where he plays and his ethnicity. Thanks for the back up .

And as far as Warner is concerned, no he didn't go to an Ivy Leaugue school, he went to Northern Iowa which is on the same level as Ivy probably less. And yes undrafted free agents do occasionally have impacts in the league, however Kurt not only wasn't drafted but spent 3 years in the Arena Leaugue (cruz did no such thing). To only become NFL MVP twice, as well as Super Bowl MVP. To compare him to Cruz or any other undrafted free agent would be laughable as well as an injustice.

Second rule of holes: Don't dig one yourself

 

[businesslawyer]

Lol, if your read my first post, you'd be pleasantly surprised that you just agreed with me. Lin is a huge story because of where he plays and his ethnicity. Thanks for the back up .

And as far as Warner is concerned, no he didn't go to an Ivy Leaugue school, he went to Northern Iowa which is on the same level as Ivy probably less. And yes undrafted free agents do occasionally have impacts in the league, however Kurt not only wasn't drafted but spent 3 years in the Arena Leaugue (cruz did no such thing). To only become NFL MVP twice, as well as Super Bowl MVP. To compare him to Cruz or any other undrafted free agent would be laughable as well as an injustice.

Second rule of holes: Don't dig one yourself

"If Jeremy Line wasn't a Knick or Asian, he'd be just another name...." That is an exact quote from your original post. You ought to be able to see the difference between the position you took and the position you are now defending (and criticizing me for not seeing that we're in agreement).

 

[sammydabiz]

Kurt Warner got a TON of pub that year...yes, as much as Lin is getting now.

Also, another non-Asian, non-New Yorker in Tim Tebow got a little bit of attention for a similar run a few months ago, no?

People love to get behind the underdog. Lin was undrafted and cut several times. Tebow was a first rounder, but constantly criticized and ridiculed around the league, and just about everybody said he couldn't play QB in the NFL. Then he won 7 of 8. People eat this stuff up, and if Lin was black and played in Memphis, he'd be getting a ton of publicity, too.

Please, Tebow had as much to do with winning those 7 games as Giffey did winning the tourney last year. Atleast Lin actually has skill that is worthy of praise. Tim Tebow sucked for 3 1/2 quarters and would pull a drive out of his arse to end the game. If it wasn't for the Denver D, Tim Tebow would be a non story right now. That no talent ass clown deserves minimal credit for Denver's run this past season. And if I was Lin, I'd be pissed having Tebows skill set, compared to his.

 

[sammydabiz]

"If Jeremy Lin wasn't a Knick or Asian, he'd be just another name...." That is an exact quote from your original post. You ought to be able to see the difference between the position you took and the position you are now defending (and criticizing me for not seeing that we're in agreement).

Precisely! And I quote "Lin is a bigger story because he is in New York, just because money talks, and he is a bigger story because he is of Chinese descent" ~businesslawyer

 

[Excalibur]

Lol, if your read my first post, you'd be pleasantly surprised that you just agreed with me. Lin is a huge story because of where he plays and his ethnicity. Thanks for the back up .

And as far as Warner is concerned, no he didn't go to an Ivy Leaugue school, he went to Northern Iowa which is on the same level as Ivy probably less. And yes undrafted free agents do occasionally have impacts in the league, however Kurt not only wasn't drafted but spent 3 years in the Arena Leaugue (cruz did no such thing). To only become NFL MVP twice, as well as Super Bowl MVP. To compare him to Cruz or any other undrafted free agent would be laughable as well as an injustice.

Second rule of holes: Don't dig one yourself

Right, and Warner was ignored. He was only the biggest story in the league that first year with the Rams.

And don't kid yourself. Guys come out of nowhere to become NFL superstars all the time. Warren Moon, John Randle, Priest Holmes, Antonio Gates. It is much less common in the NBA, and the point can't be reasonably argued.

To modify your original post, if Lin wasn't Asian and in NY, he'd be just another guy who did something that hadn't been done before.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Jeremy Lin would be the first to tell you he is not the type who wants any kind of media light on him. When you listen to his interviews, he is always giving his teammates credit and point out his own mistakes. If you think what he is doing now is a fluke, you obviously have not been paying attention. Put the race thing aside, what he is doing is historical in terms of basketball. There just isn't any story I know of that's comparable. Kurt Warner is probably the closest and that's it. You can see stories like undrafted kid doing well in the NFL via free agent route, but you just don't see that in the NBA. PG is also the most important and hardest position to master. This is another fact that's lost in this whole thing when the kid barely had chances to practice etc. due to how deep he was on the bench and the crazy short schedule they are on this season.

The kid has been flat out balling. It seems bigger the moment, the better he performs. It is just amazing how he steps up during key moments game after game. The Mavs game where he stepped up when Knicks were down like 10 late in the 3rd is amazing. The game winning shot against Toronto is another amazing display of confidence and skill.

What Jeremy Lin is doing is absolutely not some kind of fluke. Read the article below to get a historical perspective. This article was written on Feb 11 so it did not include the result of his last few games. However, it is still impressive.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/11/jeremy-lin-is-no-fluke/

 

[bellairehusky]

I don't agree with all the fuss about Lin's turnovers. You have to look at all the other numbers and more importantly, W-L. Lin had FOURTEEN assists against the Mavs. If any analyst saw a 2:1 A:TO ratio, they'd be saying that is a fantastic number. Add in points, steal, rebounds (and the all important intangibles) and that TO number all of a sudden doesn't look too bad. Further, Lin has the ball in his hands almost all the time - so he is actually absorbing turnovers from others that would otherwise be handling the ball.

Granted, there a times when Lin drives the lane and I cringe as he gets stripped, but I think he will only get better in this regard.

 

[businesslawyer]

Precisely! And I quote "Lin is a bigger story because he is in New York, just because money talks, and he is a bigger story because he is of Chinese descent" ~businesslawyer

That is true. And consistent with every post I've made. It is not consistent with your original post. If you're now saying "yes, Lin is a big time basketball story but wouldn't be the national phenomenon but for his ethnicity and location" I think you'd find no one is disagreeing with you.

And yet, you remain combative. Great.