Lin - 28 pts, 4brds, 5stls, 14 assts.

[businesslawyer]

Okay compare Linsanity to Kurt Warner, in 8 games Lin has had more fan fare than Warner ever had. Did I mention Kurt was UNDRAFTED and worked at a supermarket, to only become Superbowl MVP in his first season.

First rule of holes -- when in one stop digging.

Putting aside New York and ethnicity, Warner did not go to an Ivy League school and football isn't the same as basketball. Undrafted free agents have huge impacts on football teams all the time. Victor Cruz is only this year's example. It is not the case in basketball.

Really, stop. Lin is a bigger story because he is in New York, just because money talks, and he is a bigger story because he is of Chinese descent (which is a good thing whenever someone breaks a perceived ethnic barrier). But the fact that a basketball players goes from oblivion, being undrafted, being cut by two teams and not getting a chance with a third, and then breaks onto the scene with numbers that we haven't seen from someone starting their first few games in a generation is a big story. And should be.

 

[Excalibur]

i find it more fun to be on the opposite side as everyone else.

growing up i chose my favorite sports teams based on who were the rivals of my dad's favorite teams (i'm sure he wasn't pleased with this). i'd rather be the only lakers fan in my school, than one of 200 celtics fans.

either way, with all the jeremy lin love i would rather just take the other side. without "haters" like me, you would have nobody to argue with. that wouldn't be much fun.

as tony montana once eloquently said, "you need people like me so you can point your I have a small penisin' fingers and say 'that's the bad guy.' "

so i'll end this post with a "lin sucks" without any explanation to stir up some anger.

Thanks for explaining. I figured there was no actual thought behind it -- just unsophisticated knee-jerk contrarianism. Good to know I was right.

 

[sammydabiz]

First rule of holes -- when in one stop digging.

Putting aside New York and ethnicity, Warner did not go to an Ivy League school and football isn't the same as basketball. Undrafted free agents have huge impacts on football teams all the time. Victor Cruz is only this year's example. It is not the case in basketball.

Really, stop. Lin is a bigger story because he is in New York, just because money talks, and he is a bigger story because he is of Chinese descent (which is a good thing whenever someone breaks a perceived ethnic barrier). But the fact that a basketball players goes from oblivion, being undrafted, being cut by two teams and not getting a chance with a third, and then breaks onto the scene with numbers that we haven't seen from someone starting their first few games in a generation is a big story. And should be.

Lol, if your read my first post, you'd be pleasantly surprised that you just agreed with me. Lin is a huge story because of where he plays and his ethnicity. Thanks for the back up .

And as far as Warner is concerned, no he didn't go to an Ivy Leaugue school, he went to Northern Iowa which is on the same level as Ivy probably less. And yes undrafted free agents do occasionally have impacts in the league, however Kurt not only wasn't drafted but spent 3 years in the Arena Leaugue (cruz did no such thing). To only become NFL MVP twice, as well as Super Bowl MVP. To compare him to Cruz or any other undrafted free agent would be laughable as well as an injustice.

Second rule of holes: Don't dig one yourself

 

[businesslawyer]

Lol, if your read my first post, you'd be pleasantly surprised that you just agreed with me. Lin is a huge story because of where he plays and his ethnicity. Thanks for the back up .

And as far as Warner is concerned, no he didn't go to an Ivy Leaugue school, he went to Northern Iowa which is on the same level as Ivy probably less. And yes undrafted free agents do occasionally have impacts in the league, however Kurt not only wasn't drafted but spent 3 years in the Arena Leaugue (cruz did no such thing). To only become NFL MVP twice, as well as Super Bowl MVP. To compare him to Cruz or any other undrafted free agent would be laughable as well as an injustice.

Second rule of holes: Don't dig one yourself

"If Jeremy Line wasn't a Knick or Asian, he'd be just another name...." That is an exact quote from your original post. You ought to be able to see the difference between the position you took and the position you are now defending (and criticizing me for not seeing that we're in agreement).

 

[sammydabiz]

Kurt Warner got a TON of pub that year...yes, as much as Lin is getting now.

Also, another non-Asian, non-New Yorker in Tim Tebow got a little bit of attention for a similar run a few months ago, no?

People love to get behind the underdog. Lin was undrafted and cut several times. Tebow was a first rounder, but constantly criticized and ridiculed around the league, and just about everybody said he couldn't play QB in the NFL. Then he won 7 of 8. People eat this stuff up, and if Lin was black and played in Memphis, he'd be getting a ton of publicity, too.

Please, Tebow had as much to do with winning those 7 games as Giffey did winning the tourney last year. Atleast Lin actually has skill that is worthy of praise. Tim Tebow sucked for 3 1/2 quarters and would pull a drive out of his arse to end the game. If it wasn't for the Denver D, Tim Tebow would be a non story right now. That no talent ass clown deserves minimal credit for Denver's run this past season. And if I was Lin, I'd be pissed having Tebows skill set, compared to his.

 

[sammydabiz]

"If Jeremy Lin wasn't a Knick or Asian, he'd be just another name...." That is an exact quote from your original post. You ought to be able to see the difference between the position you took and the position you are now defending (and criticizing me for not seeing that we're in agreement).

Precisely! And I quote "Lin is a bigger story because he is in New York, just because money talks, and he is a bigger story because he is of Chinese descent" ~businesslawyer

 

[Excalibur]

Lol, if your read my first post, you'd be pleasantly surprised that you just agreed with me. Lin is a huge story because of where he plays and his ethnicity. Thanks for the back up .

And as far as Warner is concerned, no he didn't go to an Ivy Leaugue school, he went to Northern Iowa which is on the same level as Ivy probably less. And yes undrafted free agents do occasionally have impacts in the league, however Kurt not only wasn't drafted but spent 3 years in the Arena Leaugue (cruz did no such thing). To only become NFL MVP twice, as well as Super Bowl MVP. To compare him to Cruz or any other undrafted free agent would be laughable as well as an injustice.

Second rule of holes: Don't dig one yourself

Right, and Warner was ignored. He was only the biggest story in the league that first year with the Rams.

And don't kid yourself. Guys come out of nowhere to become NFL superstars all the time. Warren Moon, John Randle, Priest Holmes, Antonio Gates. It is much less common in the NBA, and the point can't be reasonably argued.

To modify your original post, if Lin wasn't Asian and in NY, he'd be just another guy who did something that hadn't been done before.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Jeremy Lin would be the first to tell you he is not the type who wants any kind of media light on him. When you listen to his interviews, he is always giving his teammates credit and point out his own mistakes. If you think what he is doing now is a fluke, you obviously have not been paying attention. Put the race thing aside, what he is doing is historical in terms of basketball. There just isn't any story I know of that's comparable. Kurt Warner is probably the closest and that's it. You can see stories like undrafted kid doing well in the NFL via free agent route, but you just don't see that in the NBA. PG is also the most important and hardest position to master. This is another fact that's lost in this whole thing when the kid barely had chances to practice etc. due to how deep he was on the bench and the crazy short schedule they are on this season.

The kid has been flat out balling. It seems bigger the moment, the better he performs. It is just amazing how he steps up during key moments game after game. The Mavs game where he stepped up when Knicks were down like 10 late in the 3rd is amazing. The game winning shot against Toronto is another amazing display of confidence and skill.

What Jeremy Lin is doing is absolutely not some kind of fluke. Read the article below to get a historical perspective. This article was written on Feb 11 so it did not include the result of his last few games. However, it is still impressive.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/11/jeremy-lin-is-no-fluke/

 

[bellairehusky]

I don't agree with all the fuss about Lin's turnovers. You have to look at all the other numbers and more importantly, W-L. Lin had FOURTEEN assists against the Mavs. If any analyst saw a 2:1 A:TO ratio, they'd be saying that is a fantastic number. Add in points, steal, rebounds (and the all important intangibles) and that TO number all of a sudden doesn't look too bad. Further, Lin has the ball in his hands almost all the time - so he is actually absorbing turnovers from others that would otherwise be handling the ball.

Granted, there a times when Lin drives the lane and I cringe as he gets stripped, but I think he will only get better in this regard.

 

[businesslawyer]

Precisely! And I quote "Lin is a bigger story because he is in New York, just because money talks, and he is a bigger story because he is of Chinese descent" ~businesslawyer

That is true. And consistent with every post I've made. It is not consistent with your original post. If you're now saying "yes, Lin is a big time basketball story but wouldn't be the national phenomenon but for his ethnicity and location" I think you'd find no one is disagreeing with you.

And yet, you remain combative. Great.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

I don't agree with all the fuss about Lin's turnovers. You have to look at all the other numbers and more importantly, W-L. Lin had FOURTEEN assists against the Mavs. If any analyst saw a 2:1 A:TO ratio, they'd be saying that is a fantastic number. Add in points, steal, rebounds (and the all important intangibles) and that TO number all of a sudden doesn't look too bad. Further, Lin has the ball in his hands almost all the time - so he is actually absorbing turnovers from others that would otherwise be handling the ball.

Granted, there a times when Lin drives the lane and I cringe as he gets stripped, but I think he will only get better in this regard.

I think that's a great point. Lin handles the ball for the Knicks like 80% to 90% of the time. His style of basketball will produce some turnovers but would you want him to stop attacking the rim and get less turnovers? If I am the coach, I would tell him to keep doing what he is doing because there are plenty of positive things that do happen when he goes aggressively to the rim.

He also had 5 steals yesterday, which almost negates his 6 TOs. BTW, Jeremy Lin is the FIRST NBA player this year to have 28 points, 14 assists and 5 steals. Think about that for a sec.

 

[sammydabiz]

Right, and Warner was ignored. He was only the biggest story in the league that first year with the Rams.

And don't kid yourself. Guys come out of nowhere to become NFL superstars all the time. Warren Moon, John Randle, Priest Holmes, Antonio Gates. It is much less common in the NBA, and the point can't be reasonably argued.

To modify your original post, if Lin wasn't Asian and in NY, he'd be just another guy who did something that hadn't been done before.

"Right, and Warner was ignored. He was only the biggest story in the league that first year with the Rams."
-true he was a big story, but Linsanity big? I think not, lol look at this website, there are ads all over selling Linsanity gear, the kid has less than 10 games under his belt

"And don't kid yourself. Guys come out of nowhere to become NFL superstars all the time. Warren Moon, John Randle, Priest Holmes, Antonio Gates. It is much less common in the NBA, and the point can't be reasonably argued."
-oh ok thosed guys were NFL MVPS! Not to mention Super Bowl MVP as well as still holding the top 3 records for most yards thrown in the game, yes they may have their pro bowls, but nowhere near the accolades of Warner. But don't forget about John Starks and Ben Wallace who were All Stars and Superstars at one point in time as well.

To modify your original post, if Lin wasn't Asian and in NY, he'd be just another guy who did something that hadn't been done before...
- Thanks, but no thanks. I don't want you to modify it

 

[sammydabiz]

That is true. And consistent with every post I've made. It is not consistent with your original post. If you're now saying "yes, Lin is a big time basketball story but wouldn't be the national phenomenon but for his ethnicity and location" I think you'd find no one is disagreeing with you.

And yet, you remain combative. Great.

Apologies, did want to come off aggressive. (It must be from getting attacked at every angle) But yes,that is what I am saying and have said. There would be no "Linsanity" if it werent for where he played and his backround. I'm glad we're all in agreement now

 

[8893]

The reason that Lin is such a huge story is because it so unlikely. The fact that he is the first Asian-American ever to play in the NBA, and the fact that he is doing it on the Knicks are only two of factors that make it so unlikely. As many have noted, there is simply no other story like it in the NBA--ever. John Starks is the only one I can think of as remotely similar, but Starks had Ewing, among others, on that team. Lin's ascent started with his team in a death spiral, the coach likely days away from either quitting or being fired, Lin himself days away from being cut (again), and the team's two marquee stars not playing.

If this story had happened in Memphis or anywhere else it would still be a big story, but it would be one that I was not watching every game, and I would only be aware of it through the headlines and highlights, which I sense is the case for many here. I like but do not love the NBA. Not enough to watch teams for which I do not root. The reason I am watching is because I am a Knicks fan and have been since birth, for better or worse. Even so, I honestly can't remember the last time I watched a Knicks regular season game from tip to buzzer, and in the past two weeks I have watched several. They are now an interesting, fun team to watch, and NY has been so starved for NBA relevance for so long that anyone--no matter what race, background, etc.--who made them relevant again would be heralded. If anything, Lin's story underscores what a massive blunder (imo) LeBron made in not choosing the Knicks. LeBron is everything Lin is not, but if he restored NBA legitimacy to the Knicks, he would be walking alongside Eli right now with the city on his shoulders. They don't call MSG "The World's Most Famous Arena" for nothing. This was such a golden opportunity, and the fact that it was passed up by the most likely of heroes and taken up by the least likely is, well, a huge story. Hard to understand how someone could not see that, and as many have noted, it likely says more about those who don't get or enjoy it. I feel sorry for them, because it is such a great human story, not just in sports but in life. Who knows how long it will last, but to not enjoy it is, imo, to not enjoy the essence of life itself.

From his dim comments here and his "white girl" comment in the Shabazz thread, I sense that "sammydabiz" is a troll with bigoted tendencies (to put it lightly). But in the hopes that some actual learning can occur here, sammy, please understand that your flip-flop is as transparent as a bad magician's trick. I will give you the opposite advice that you gave someone above: do not try law school, because you are apparently unable to grasp basic reason and logic. You started by saying that the only reason Lin is a big story is because of his race and the fact that he has done it on the Knicks. You quickly flipped to defending a point you never made, and which no one else has challenged; i.e., that Lin's race, among other things, have played a part in the story. That is called making a straw-man argument, and it is a favorite of dim-witted trolls who have been outed. You later sunk to other sports in a desperate attempt to defend what is plainly indefensible, so take the advice from others and stop digging. Either man up and admit you were off-base, or get lost. And maybe, just maybe, you can find something to enjoy from this story.

 

[businesslawyer]

The reason that Lin is such a huge story is because it so unlikely. The fact that he is the first Asian-American ever to play in the NBA, and the fact that he is doing it on the Knicks are only two of factors that make it so unlikely. As many have noted, there is simply no other story like it in the NBA--ever. John Starks is the only one I can think of as remotely similar, but Starks had Ewing, among others, on that team. Lin's ascent started with his team in a death spiral, the coach likely days away from either quitting or being fired, Lin himself days away from being cut (again), and the team's two marquee stars not playing.

If this story had happened in Memphis or anywhere else it would still be a big story, but it would be one that I was not watching every game, and I would only be aware of it through the headlines and highlights, which I sense is the case for many here. I like but do not love the NBA. Not enough to watch teams for which I do not root. The reason I am watching is because I am a Knicks fan and have been since birth, for better or worse. Even so, I honestly can't remember the last time I watched a Knicks regular season game from tip to buzzer, and in the past two weeks I have watched several. They are now an interesting, fun team to watch, and NY has been so starved for NBA relevance for so long that anyone--no matter what race, background, etc.--who made them relevant again would be heralded. If anything, Lin's story underscores what a massive blunder (imo) LeBron made in not choosing the Knicks. LeBron is everything Lin is not, but if he restored NBA legitimacy to the Knicks, he would be walking alongside Eli right now with the city on his shoulders. They don't call MSG "The World's Most Famous Arena" for nothing. This was such a golden opportunity, and the fact that it was passed up by the most likely of heroes and taken up by the least likely is, well, a huge story. Hard to understand how someone could not see that, and as many have noted, it likely says more about those who don't get or enjoy it. I feel sorry for them, because it is such a great human story, not just in sports but in life. Who knows how long it will last, but to not enjoy it is, imo, to not enjoy the essence of life itself.

From his dim comments here and his "white girl" comment in the Shabazz thread, I sense that "sammydabiz" is a troll with bigoted tendencies (to put it lightly). But in the hopes that some actual learning can occur here, sammy, please understand that your flip-flop is as transparent as a bad magician's trick. I will give you the opposite advice that you gave someone above: do not try law school, because you are apparently unable to grasp basic reason and logic. You started by saying that the only reason Lin is a big story is because of his race and the fact that he has done it on the Knicks. You quickly flipped to defending a point you never made, and which no one else has challenged; i.e., that Lin's race, among other things, have played a part in the story. That is called making a straw-man argument, and it is a favorite of dim-witted trolls who have been outed. You later sunk to other sports in a desperate attempt to defend what is plainly indefensible, so take the advice from others and stop digging. Either man up and admit you were off-base, or get lost. And maybe, just maybe, you can find something to enjoy from this story.

John Starks did not come out of the blue, grab a starting spot and start playing as well as anyone in the league from day one. Starks went from bench to rotation to starter to solid player/minor star. When he first started getting minutes for the Knicks, he was an outstanding defender and was awful on offense.

 

[8893]

John Starks did not come out of the blue, grab a starting spot and start playing as well as anyone in the league from day one. Starks went from bench to rotation to starter to solid player/minor star. When he first started getting minutes for the Knicks, he was an outstanding defender and was awful on offense.

I didn't say Starks was comparable to Lin. I said he was the only one I could think of as remotely similar. Those similarities being: no notable college hoops career; undrafted; bounced around the lesser-league equivalents of today's D-league; cut from at least a few other NBA teams before landing on the Knicks as a backup; on the verge of being cut from the Knicks; ends up being starting point guard for the Knicks during a pretty decent, though hardly remarkable period. I agree it's not close, which is the whole point here. I've been wracking my brain for anything remotely similar, and Starks was the closest I could think of in the NBA. There may be others who are closer, and if so I'm interested to hear about them; but the fact that I have to go that far to try and find the next closest comparison speaks volumes imo about how unlikely the Lin story is.

 

[sammydabiz]

The reason that Lin is such a huge story is because it so unlikely. The fact that he is the first Asian-American ever to play in the NBA, and the fact that he is doing it on the Knicks are only two of factors that make it so unlikely. As many have noted, there is simply no other story like it in the NBA--ever. John Starks is the only one I can think of as remotely similar, but Starks had Ewing, among others, on that team. Lin's ascent started with his team in a death spiral, the coach likely days away from either quitting or being fired, Lin himself days away from being cut (again), and the team's two marquee stars not playing.

If this story had happened in Memphis or anywhere else it would still be a big story, but it would be one that I was not watching every game, and I would only be aware of it through the headlines and highlights, which I sense is the case for many here. I like but do not love the NBA. Not enough to watch teams for which I do not root. The reason I am watching is because I am a Knicks fan and have been since birth, for better or worse. Even so, I honestly can't remember the last time I watched a Knicks regular season game from tip to buzzer, and in the past two weeks I have watched several. They are now an interesting, fun team to watch, and NY has been so starved for NBA relevance for so long that anyone--no matter what race, background, etc.--who made them relevant again would be heralded. If anything, Lin's story underscores what a massive blunder (imo) LeBron made in not choosing the Knicks. LeBron is everything Lin is not, but if he restored NBA legitimacy to the Knicks, he would be walking alongside Eli right now with the city on his shoulders. They don't call MSG "The World's Most Famous Arena" for nothing. This was such a golden opportunity, and the fact that it was passed up by the most likely of heroes and taken up by the least likely is, well, a huge story. Hard to understand how someone could not see that, and as many have noted, it likely says more about those who don't get or enjoy it. I feel sorry for them, because it is such a great human story, not just in sports but in life. Who knows how long it will last, but to not enjoy it is, imo, to not enjoy the essence of life itself.

From his dim comments here and his "white girl" comment in the Shabazz thread, I sense that "sammydabiz" is a troll with bigoted tendencies (to put it lightly). But in the hopes that some actual learning can occur here, sammy, please understand that your flip-flop is as transparent as a bad magician's trick. I will give you the opposite advice that you gave someone above: do not try law school, because you are apparently unable to grasp basic reason and logic. You started by saying that the only reason Lin is a big story is because of his race and the fact that he has done it on the Knicks. You quickly flipped to defending a point you never made, and which no one else has challenged; i.e., that Lin's race, among other things, have played a part in the story. That is called making a straw-man argument, and it is a favorite of dim-witted trolls who have been outed. You later sunk to other sports in a desperate attempt to defend what is plainly indefensible, so take the advice from others and stop digging. Either man up and admit you were off-base, or get lost. And maybe, just maybe, you can find something to enjoy from this story.

Dear 887653,

Who's flip flopping?!? I like how you put "only" in bold, considering I never used the word. So before you attempt to write your next great essay on how I am wrong and a horrible person get some credible facts before you try to persecute another. What I did say was "This whole "Linsanity" is purely based off of race and the fact he plays in NY." that is not saying he hasn't played well nor the fact that he doesn't deserve a pat on the back (he's been playing great, heck I compared him to Westbrook). But to put him on a pedestal with this ongoing hoopla of Linsanity is due to the fact that he plays in the biggest media market and his unlikely heritage. And in my defense many on here have agreed with me. To disregard the Warner comparrison would be quite close minded of you, surprising since you seem like such an educated fellow with your ability to write such eloquent posts filled with contradictions and slander towards myself.

But I digress, and refuse to stoop to your level of juvenile name-calling. I'll take solace In the fact that my point was well received, and agreed upon by others. The only thing transparent 8876342, is your lack of dignity. Hope you have a good day

 

[mets1090]

I like how you put "only" in bold, considering I never used the word. So before you attempt to write your next great essay on how I am wrong and a horrible person get some credible facts before you try to persecute another. What I did say was "This whole "Linsanity" is purely based off of race and the fact he plays in NY."

Purely and only are pretty closely defined in this context.

 

[sammydabiz]

Purely and only are pretty closely defined in this context.

Close is only good in horseshoes and hand grenades

 

[mets1090]

Close is only good in horseshoes and hand grenades

Don't be that guy. The definition of purely is "to a full extent : totally." Sounds like "only" to me.

 

[caw]

Duly noted,

I'm not saying Lin isn't putting up great numbers, I'm just saying there is no way he'd be getting this messiah treatment if it weren't for being Asian and playing in NY. My best argument would be that of Kurt Warner, came from nothing to win a champinship his first year starting, and went on to win another one. In his IMO hall of Fame career, yes he may of got his 10 minute skit on his life on ESPN, but did he EVER get 3/4 of the treatment Lin has got in only what? 8 games in. Kurt Warneranity (ya try again) And coming from a shelf stocker in Iowa to Superbowl MVP is way better of a story.

Well Kurt Warneranity sounds stupid.

Seriously though, it's impossible to say it is because he is Chinese or in NYC that he is causing this to-do. There has quite literally never been another player like Lin (taking out location and race). I can't think of another player that has been so lowly thought of and played so well so immediately after all the trials before hand.

It's like Armon Johnson, Terrico White, Andy Rautins, or Willie Warren starting in the NBA tomorrow and putting up double double. If you are wondering why I mention those players, they are all 2010 second round PG/SG's taken ahead of Lin.

 

[sammydabiz]

Don't be that guy. The definition of purely is "to a full extent : totally." Sounds like "only" to me.

Sure I guess only could be linked to purely, but so can: chiefly, basically, mostly, generally, largely, principally.

 

[Excalibur]

Sure I guess only could be linked to purely, but so can: chiefly, basically, mostly, generally, largely, principally.

No, they can't.

 

[sammydabiz]

No, they can't.

Sure they can, unless you want to argue with Webster, because that's where I just got it.

 

[Rico444]

Please, Tebow had as much to do with winning those 7 games as Giffey did winning the tourney last year. Atleast Lin actually has skill that is worthy of praise. Tim Tebow sucked for 3 1/2 quarters and would pull a drive out of his arse to end the game. If it wasn't for the Denver D, Tim Tebow would be a non story right now. That no talent ass clown deserves minimal credit for Denver's run this past season. And if I was Lin, I'd be pissed having Tebows skill set, compared to his.

You clearly didn't understand my post at all, so I'll spell it out for you slowly. You said "Lin wouldn't be getting this press if he weren't Asian or in NY." I gave you a very recent example of somebody who is neither Asian nor in New York, yet got just as much publicity. I am not comparing their talent levels, I am comparing the amount of coverage they received. Sorry you didn't understand that from that start, although I don't understand why, since you were the one that made the original point.